AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[AresX8]

@Myrdin Don't rely too much on MSU screens, we actually can remove those outside of combat with Blood Boils/Wrath-Axe/Bloodthirster shooting, and it gives us Blood Tithe points. Hell, depending on the save of said screens, Flesh Hounds or Bloodreavers can probably take those screens out too.

[Troll.exe]

9 hours ago, Blisterfeet said:

Hey guys got a tournament at the end of the month and I've drawn up 3 lists. Question is which kind do you prefer. Looking more multiple threats, good board control and enough all round list to improve on my results with a mortal list last year. 

List A

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Amberglaive
Skarbrand (380)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Axe
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
30 x Bloodreavers (210)
- Meatripper Axes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128

5 drops is a little high but it does fit in some versatile threats

List B

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Amberglaive
Skarbrand (380)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
30 x Bloodreavers (210)
- Meatripper Axes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
3 x Varanguard (300)
- 3x Ensorcelled Weapons

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125

4 drops, more anti magic for Tzeentch heavy meta but could suffer against pretrifex?!?

List C

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Archaon the Everchosen (800)
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Amberglaive
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106

I power through the Big man himself next week and get him in this lineup and sacrifice the judgements. Might be fun but I don't know if it is stronger than the other two.

Any other lists can be suggested (I read this thread avidly though) but I do not own a BToUF, WoBT or Skullreapers. 

Thanks all

List B looks pretty good. Huge fan of Skarbrand and a BoIR.

I’m just wondering if there’s room for a daemon prince somewhere in one of those lists. Obviously he needs an artefact so its almost a “swap for BoIR” type scenario unless you take a second battalion. Maybe the big fella, Skarbrand and a DP? Im Just spit balling but there’s definitely something to be said about that command ability.

[Blisterfeet]

12 hours ago, Troll.exe said:

List B looks pretty good. Huge fan of Skarbrand and a BoIR.

I’m just wondering if there’s room for a daemon prince somewhere in one of those lists. Obviously he needs an artefact so its almost a “swap for BoIR” type scenario unless you take a second battalion. Maybe the big fella, Skarbrand and a DP? Im Just spit balling but there’s definitely something to be said about that command ability.

I could cut the varaguard and easily slot in 

BoIR Skar DP + BS +SP +SP, as you can see below I own all this ready to go. Is this what you thought @Troll.exe

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Bloodsecrator (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Skarbrand (380)
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Sword
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
30 x Bloodreavers (210)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
Gore Pilgrims (140)
Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

 

[Troll.exe]

On 2/16/2020 at 2:25 AM, Blisterfeet said:

I could cut the varaguard and easily slot in 

BoIR Skar DP + BS +SP +SP, as you can see below I own all this ready to go. Is this what you thought @Troll.exe

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Bloodsecrator (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Skarbrand (380)
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Sword
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
30 x Bloodreavers (210)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
Gore Pilgrims (140)
Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

 

Looks solid. Would you get more out of a crimson crown on the DP instead of the thermal rider cloak on the bloodsecrator though? Just spam that for free all game.

[AresX8]

Copy pasting from my Facebook page:

Anyone else looking really hard at the Karkadrak Chaos Lord with 2x5 units of Chaos Knights with Cursed Lances? All under Goretide? I think these units provide something we desperately need: Fast moving, high Rend (give Dimensional Blade to the Karkadrak Lord on his Hexed Battleaxe), multi damage attacks. I'm currently brewing this module under Gore Pilgrims. Will post once I'm happy with the first draft!

[Sleepa]

4 hours ago, AresX8 said:

Anyone else looking really hard at the Karkadrak Chaos Lord with 2x5 units of Chaos Knights with Cursed Lances? All under Goretide?

I drafted up a Goretide list with a Chaos Lord on Karkadrak just the other day!

Haven't tested it, but this is what my first draft looks like:

Leaders

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak - General
Command Trait: Hew the Foe
Artifact of Power: Dimensional Blade

Bloodsecrator
Artifact of Power: Thronebreaker's Torc

Slaughterpriest: Killing Frenzy

Slaughterpriest: Bronzed Flesh

Bloodstoker

Battleline

10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes

10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes

10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes

10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes

10x Bloodreavers with Meatripper Axes

Other Units

5x Wrathmongers

5x Wrathmongers

10x Skullreapers

5x Chaos Knights /w Lances

Warscroll Battalions

Dark Feast

Judgements of Khorne

Hexgorger Skulls

[JDLIII]

So i went back to the drawing board and made some revisions with the last list idea I posted. I took out Blood Hunt as advised by some (thank you) and replaced it with Murderhost. I’m wondering if I’m hurting my self by not having a bigger battle line or will my Skullreapers do the job if the 2  small units of blood warriors. Any tips would be appreciated.

Allegiance: Khorne
Bloodsecrator (120)
Bloodstoker (80)
Skulltaker (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
20 x Bloodletters (220)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
2 x Khorgoraths (200)
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
Skulltake (140)
Murderhost (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
 

[Sleepa]

4 minutes ago, JDLIII said:

So i went back to the drawing board and made some revisions with the last list idea I posted. I took out Blood Hunt as advised by some (thank you) and replaced it with Murderhost. I’m wondering if I’m hurting my self by not having a bigger battle line or will my Skullreapers do the job if the 2  small units of blood warriors. Any tips would be appreciated.

5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
20 x Bloodletters (220)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
2 x Khorgoraths (200)
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
Skulltake (140)
Murderhost (160
 

I think you probably have enough battleline, but could use a bit more firepower. I think you should cut your Skulltake Battlion, combine your two units of Skullreapers, and maybe add a unit of Wrathmongers to support either the Skullreapers or the Bloodletters. That would give you two hammers with some real potential to do some damage.

[Ravinsild]

How viable are Slaves to Darkness units with Khorne? I've always wanted to run fur cloaked classic chaos warriors, chaos knights, just like...classic regular chaos, but khorne. 

Would you rather go STD Allegiance, or Khorne? If I go STD can I still use like Slaughterpriest prayers on them? Or does the Bloodsecrator work? How well do they plug and play/mix and match? Trying to figure out how to get the best...classic chaos Khorne...formula with Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights and Chaos Lords or whatever. 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Ravinsild warriors, knights and chaos lords are all viable in Khorne allegiance as it opens them up to buffs from slaughterpriests (+1 to hit, +1 to save), rerolling wounds and bonus movement (Bloodstoker) and lots of extra attacks from Bloodsecrator, Wrathmongers and Aspiring Deathrbingers. If you take a warshrine it can have a Blood Blessing Prayer making it even more useful. However you lose STD aura abilities so no easy access to reroll 1's to hit and no +1 to wound. You will also have a hard time casting any buff spells such as Daemonic Power from an allied Sorcerer Lord (and wont have access to the STD spells).

Chaos Warriors offer a tanky alternative to the more offensive Blood Warriors, however Blood Warriors are needed for most mortal khorne battalions and neither unit is particularly cheap. Chaos Warriors with dual weapons can be good offensively, especially with a bloodstoker to reroll everything, but lack of rend hurts them. The rune shields can be a pain for some armies, some of the time. 

Knights fill a role for khorne in being the fastest heavy cavalry option and with glaives giving the army some rare -2 rend. You can put a lot of buffs on the unit and they can do a ton of damage but wont do much after the initial charge. Ensorcelled weapons generally perform better over the length of the game.

Certain Khorne command traits and artifacts can really buff the Lord on Karkdrak, but losing +1 to wound from STD aura hurts. Regular lord on mount is good to support knights with his command ability but wont do much more then that. Lord on foot is great for the fight twice but will struggle to keep in range of knights and warriors fighting twice is a bit pointless unless they have dual weapons and a few buffs on them. 

The jury is still out but it might actually be better to run STD allegiance with mark of khorne and ally in the support pieces. Slaughter Priests cant take prayers outside khorne allegiance and you wont have the altar for rerolls so I wouldn't bother with them. Best allies would be a Bloodsecrator, Bloodstoker and maybe some Wrathmongers. You lose out on bloodtithe and summoning daemons but you get the Khorne Aura and are probably running Ravagers with this build so you're summoning marauders. Your Sorcerers have access to the STD spells and as long as they stay more than 16" from the bloodsecrator wont have any issues.

[Roark]

Chosen and Marauders (supported by Warshrine) are far and away the best StD units to use in Khorne IMO, but the models are very dated.

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, Roark said:

Chosen and Marauders (supported by Warshrine) are far and away the best StD units to use in Khorne IMO, but the models are very dated.

You think they’re due for an update or they just gonna stay bad for a long time? 

[Inquisitorsz]

14 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

You think they’re due for an update or they just gonna stay bad for a long time? 

Chosen might get a new kit since we have new Warriors now and there's apparently a multipart kit coming.... they might just throw in some halberds and different helmets into that kit and let you make Chosen from the same box. 

I doubt we'll see new marauders though there are quite a few interesting options for converting them (if you don't mind your 160pt battleline horde costing A LOT more money) 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Inquisitorsz

[Ravinsild]

24 minutes ago, Inquisitorsz said:

Chosen might get a new kit since we have new Warriors now and there's apparently a multipart kit coming.... they might just throw in some halberds and different helmets into that kit and let you make Chosen from the same box. 

I doubt we'll see new marauders though there are quite a few interesting options for converting them (if you don't mind your 160pt battleline horde costing A LOT more money) 

I wouldn’t run marauders. I know they’re good, but I love the absolute strong identity of chaos warriors and knights too much. Besides if push came to shove I’d just use Bloodreavers since I already have 80 if I absolutely *needed* to use worthless chaff. 

[Gnarfflinger]

On the question of Blood Reavers:

 

I an trying them out in a slow grow league, in units of 10, because I need the Blood tithe points when they die.  Depending on how well this works, I may look for more of them...

Edited February 19, 2020 by Gnarfflinger
Clarification.

[Praecautus]

8 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

How viable are Slaves to Darkness units with Khorne? I've always wanted to run fur cloaked classic chaos warriors, chaos knights, just like...classic regular chaos, but khorne. 

Would you rather go STD Allegiance, or Khorne? If I go STD can I still use like Slaughterpriest prayers on them? Or does the Bloodsecrator work? How well do they plug and play/mix and match? Trying to figure out how to get the best...classic chaos Khorne...formula with Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights and Chaos Lords or whatever. 

The knights and warriors are viable and will benefit from all buffs if you give them the Khorne mark. The issue they have is points cost and adding to drops (unless you take the Khorne Slaves battalion).

Warriors offer us a great tank unit and MW shrug with the shields, innate reroll saves at 10 coupled with bronze flesh makes a unit which is going to be hard to move. They don’t hit amazingly hard, but having eg your priests behind them makes a great bodyguard.

Knights have been getting mixed reviews. The lance on the charge is fab but you may only get that off once or twice a game unless you can decimate the unit they charge, which probably means a unit of 10, which is a big investment of points. Mixed with killing frenzy and the krakadrak lord would be +2 to hit which is tasty. Ensorcelled weapons is the better option if they get stuck in combat. I am tempted to build a knight and krakadrak lord combo, maybe with dark feast.

With the rise of tzeentch there may be a place for both units in our army due to their MW shrug abilities.

I am going to try both slaves alligience and Khorne alligience. There are similarities eg buffing auras to punch above weight, but also some differences in the way the armies play. Khorne is all msu and tithe use, slaves is around movement denial.

[AresX8]

I've been leaning towards 5 man Knight units for ease of maneuverability, extra Blood Tithe, extra Champion, and ease of buffing with the wholly within ranges. I've played plenty of games trying to figure out how to use Skullcrushers to know that units with big footprints are much harder than you think to use, although Skullcrushers do have a much bigger base size...

In regards to the Karkadrak Lord, I just ran the numbers against Mortek Guard comparing him when under the Slaves to Darkness allegiance with Khorne aura, vs being in Goretide as the General. I've linked the combat calculators I used below; I can't find one that allows to re-roll all saves rather than failed saves. This is looking at the Hexed Battleaxe only, with the Dimensional Blade.

These were the buffs I factored in:

Slaves to Darkness: Aura of Khorne, +2 attacks. Calculator: http://40k.ghostlords.com/dice/aos.html#attacks=7&hit=3&rend=3&wound=3&d=2&save=4&wound_mod=1&save_mod=1&wounds=1&hit_reroll=1&save_reroll=fail&shake=6

Khorne: Killing Frenzy, Bloodstoker whip, +2 attacks, Hew the Foe. Calculator: http://40k.ghostlords.com/dice/aos.html#attacks=7&hit=3&rend=3&wound=3&d=3&save=4&hit_mod=1&save_mod=1&wounds=1&wound_reroll=fail&save_reroll=fail&shake=6

When under Khorne, he kills almost twice as many Mortek Guard compared to being in Slaves to Darkness, it's amazing.  That's far more than any Bloodthirster that's not Skarbrand.

[Grimrock]

10 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Besides if push came to shove I’d just use Bloodreavers since I already have 80 if I absolutely *needed* to use worthless chaff. 

It's cool if you'd rather not use marauders, but just for anyone else reading they're far from useless chaff. Point for point and considering the buffs available they're one of the best battleline in the game with incredible damage output, speed, and number of bodies. Bloodreavers are great chaff that gets in the way and generates blood tithe, but marauders actually do real work on the tabletop. Buffing them with a warshrine for full rerolls on hits and wounds and having a bloodsecrator nearby... They blender everything, even threatening petrifex mortek under a harvester. Seriously the numbers are ridiculous.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Grimrock

[HarbingerGaming]

As said above, marauders (at least in Khorne) are anything but worthless chaff. They benefit greatly from the bonuses the mortal side in Khorne provides and can be a very powerful first wave. 

[Sleepa]

15 hours ago, Roark said:

Chosen and Marauders (supported by Warshrine) are far and away the best StD units to use in Khorne IMO, but the models are very dated.

It's a shame the warscrolls that received some of the more substantial buffs, didn't get new model release to support the rules updates. It feels counterintuitive from a marketing standpoint. I realize that warriors and knights were buffed as well, but if they weren't planning to update the model range, why not just phase out the old units?

This is coming from someone who just isn't interested in fielding strong units at the cost of purchasing grossly outdated boxes of minis. I don't suppose the Battletome designers are given direction on which units to push, and which to change minimally? Actually, I'd almost prefer that, as it seems the alternative is the writer of the book just makes design changes arbitrarily, in order to curate a balanced army, with no regard to the practical accessibility of models.

[Praecautus]

3 hours ago, AresX8 said:

I've been leaning towards 5 man Knight units for ease of maneuverability, extra Blood Tithe, extra Champion, and ease of buffing with the wholly within ranges. I've played plenty of games trying to figure out how to use Skullcrushers to know that units with big footprints are much harder than you think to use, although Skullcrushers do have a much bigger base size...

In regards to the Karkadrak Lord, I just ran the numbers against Mortek Guard comparing him when under the Slaves to Darkness allegiance with Khorne aura, vs being in Goretide as the General. I've linked the combat calculators I used below; I can't find one that allows to re-roll all saves rather than failed saves. This is looking at the Hexed Battleaxe only, with the Dimensional Blade.

These were the buffs I factored in:

Slaves to Darkness: Aura of Khorne, +2 attacks. Calculator: http://40k.ghostlords.com/dice/aos.html#attacks=7&hit=3&rend=3&wound=3&d=2&save=4&wound_mod=1&save_mod=1&wounds=1&hit_reroll=1&save_reroll=fail&shake=6

Khorne: Killing Frenzy, Bloodstoker whip, +2 attacks, Hew the Foe. Calculator: http://40k.ghostlords.com/dice/aos.html#attacks=7&hit=3&rend=3&wound=3&d=3&save=4&hit_mod=1&save_mod=1&wounds=1&wound_reroll=fail&save_reroll=fail&shake=6

When under Khorne, he kills almost twice as many Mortek Guard compared to being in Slaves to Darkness, it's amazing.  That's far more than any Bloodthirster that's not Skarbrand.

That’s interesting on the lord. Are you able to do the slaves with blood stoker allied in?

[Grimrock]

14 minutes ago, Sleepa said:

It's a shame the warscrolls that received some of the more substantial buffs, didn't get new model release to support the rules updates. It feels counterintuitive from a marketing standpoint. I realize that warriors and knights were buffed as well, but if they weren't planning to update the model range, why not just phase out the old units?

This is coming from someone who just isn't interested in fielding strong units at the cost of purchasing grossly outdated boxes of minis. I don't suppose the Battletome designers are given direction on which units to push, and which to change minimally? Actually, I'd almost prefer that, as it seems the alternative is the writer of the book just makes design changes arbitrarily, in order to curate a balanced army, with no regard to the practical accessibility of models.

I feel like that's the reason they got stronger. No one would ever want to go and buy marauders if they didn't have a compelling reason rulewise. The new warriors and knights can sell themselves just by being cool, the marauders needed something extra. I know that the old guard would have the models kicking around but there are a lot of people playing all of the mortal chaos armies that should be eyeing them right now.

[Sleepa]

2 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

I feel like that's the reason they got stronger. No one would ever want to go and buy marauders if they didn't have a compelling reason rulewise. The new warriors and knights can sell themselves just by being cool, the marauders needed something extra. I know that the old guard would have the models kicking around but there are a lot of people playing all of the mortal chaos armies that should be eyeing them right now.

Maybe. Marauders are sold out in the GW online store ATM, so the new battletome either generated a TON of sales, or they aren't restocking these kits often, because the aren't a priority in their production queues.

[AresX8]

1 hour ago, Praecautus said:

That’s interesting on the lord. Are you able to do the slaves with blood stoker allied in?

Yup! Just click the link I provided and on the drag down right under wounds, click re-roll failed wounds. There doesn't seem to be that significant of a bump with this new buff.

What seems to be the deal sealer is Hew the Foe. The shift from 2 damage to 3 damage a swing is really significant.

[Zamik]

I have a question about "Leave None Alive": the Core Rules say you can use a Command Ability multiple times a phase as long as you have Command Points to pay for it, so I should be able to spend a point and put it on several eligible units. And if that's true, when I have priority, can I put it on my Daemon Prince and my Bloodthirster, have the DP fight his first time at the start of the combat phase, immediately fight again, and then select the Bloodthirster to fight in the combat phase and then fight again--all before the opponent can do anything? I'm assuming that the DP's ability to fight at the start of combat means that on my priority I get to select another unit (my first selected unit of the phase) after he fights. I'm not sure if I've missed some obvious flaw here.

Basically the order of operations I'm looking at here is:

Start of Combat Phase: Spend 1 CP on DP, spend 1 CP on Bloodthirster; DP fights twice

Combat phase: Bloodthirster fights twice

Edited February 19, 2020 by Zamik