AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Roark]

22 hours ago, ogarrah said:

1. Should I A. take different artefacts or B. give the artefacts I currently have to different heroes? This list relies on getting my buffing heroes (Bloodsecrator and Dark Feast Slaughterpriest) up the table without getting them shot/casted off the table so I can maximize my aura radius, but I'm wondering if there is a more efficient/effective way to take artefacts to better do this.

2. Should I cut anything out to add a block of 40 Marauders? I've heard good things about them, but I'm not sure what I would sacrifice to take them. The 6 Skullcrushers seem like a good option, but I've found them to be excellent fast tar pits, especially with Bronzed Flesh.

3. Should I take any Judgements? In my experience the Wrath Axe is inconsistent at best, and I think the Bleeding Icon isn't really worth it, so the only Judgement I think I could take is Hex Gorger Skulls, although to take them I would probably have to cut out a unit of 'reavers, which I'm not sure is worth it.

4. Is there any prayers that I should/shouldn't take? I've considered Brazen Fury to help my Bloodreavers not fold in Battleshock, but with the MSU approach I'm not convinced its useful.

5. Does this list have any major flaws that I'm missing i.e. I'm not taking artefacts I should, I'm not taking a unit/ hero I should etc.? I'm hoping I can play well with this list in small local tournaments, but please tell me if this list is tactically inadequate.

2. Nah, Marauders need support and investment to shine. Then your whole list would be different anyway. Plus you're going for super low drops and they would increase significantly.

3. I agree with you about Judgements, though I have stronger feelings about the Hexgorger Skulls. I see them as pretty much essential. Your meta (and its prevalence of magic) may be different though.

4. I think you've absolutely taken the optimal prayers for your list.

5. Look, I don't really rate the Juggerlord in general, but with the Cloak and Hew the Foe, he becomes more versatile. The thing that bugs me a little is the total redundancy between his command and the Goretide army trait.

Would love to hear more about your experiences of this list as they happen.

[ogarrah]

4 hours ago, Roark said:

2. Nah, Marauders need support and investment to shine. Then your whole list would be different anyway. Plus you're going for super low drops and they would increase significantly.

3. I agree with you about Judgements, though I have stronger feelings about the Hexgorger Skulls. I see them as pretty much essential. Your meta (and its prevalence of magic) may be different though.

4. I think you've absolutely taken the optimal prayers for your list.

5. Look, I don't really rate the Juggerlord in general, but with the Cloak and Hew the Foe, he becomes more versatile. The thing that bugs me a little is the total redundancy between his command and the Goretide army trait.

Would love to hear more about your experiences of this list as they happen.

2. Yeah I looked into them a little more and I agree. Maybe at some point I'll make a list focusing on Marauders. The STD Chaos Lord with the fight twice command ability seems pretty spicy but I'm not sure how much sanity I'll have left to paint hordes of Marauders with after painting 50 'Reavers.

3. Out of the three Judgements, the Skulls are definitely the best, but I'm not sure it's worth it to take them unless I'm expecting there to lots of magical garbage in my local tournament's meta, in which case I'll definitely be taking them.

5. I admit I am having second thoughts about the Juggerlord, he's just too hit or miss (unfortunately I already bought the model. I still can't believe its $50. GW is scamming us) I think taking Skarr Bloodwrath or a Skullgrinder instead might be something to try out. That way I can at least take the Hex-Gorger skulls or maybe another Bloodreaver unit if I take the Skullgriner. 

Thanks for the input, I'll probably tweak this list a little more the more I play with it.

[Mikeymajq]

Has anyone run The Flayed from wrath of the everchosen? From what I've read it seems really bad, but getting a better save on some of our tankier units + bronzed flesh might be good.. maybe?  Also I don't know what the artefact and command trait does so I feel like I don't have the entire picture 😄

[Roark]

10 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:

Also I don't know what the artefact and command trait does so I feel like I don't have the entire picture 😄

Artefact is +2 to charge. Command trait is Priests reroll 1s to pray wholly within 8" of the general.

[Mikeymajq]

Well those aren't impressive 😄

Dangit, I was kinda hoping they'd make up for it somewhat.  It's like, I want to like it because it's new and more options but it's super situational and chances are when a unit finally triggers it it will be pretty duffed up already.  

[HarbingerGaming]

Got my first game in with Baleful Lords on Saturday. It was some Adepticon Team practice, and I will have to get more reps, but I very much enjoyed what it offered. The Insensate Rage Bloodthirster almost always swung at full bracket with that command ability, and +1 save was huge!! Against Ironjawz and Slaves, it came up a lot because of all the -1 rend attacks. He ended up sticking around a lot longer than he should have, and it helped wall some of the opponent long enough for my partner to carry us to victory by the end!!

[ledha]

The more i play with a demon prince, the more i think it's a auto-include in the like of the bloodsecrator.

I played against Ossiarch yesterday. Goretide general + dimensionnal blade on the claw gave to my demon prince (and only with a bloodsecrator around) in charge 4 attacks 2+rr1/3+/-2/3 and 4 attacks 2+rr1/3+/-3/3

The guy slaughetered morteks (in petrifex) left and right (between 9 and 12 per combat phase) like they were nothing. And the CA is incredible. He literally soloted 20 morteks backed up by a boneshaper in 3 combat phase.

small base + fly and 12" move make him more mobile than bloodthirster, and not being a monster as well as having a 3+ save (so covert or look out sir) make him nearly as much if not more resilient in some case.

For my mortal khorne army, which lack rend and projection (except bloodwarriors), he is incredible

Edited February 13, 2020 by ledha

[kozokus]

I guess it all depends on your meta....

I am always shocked when people find the skull beeing the best judgement.

For my part it is useless 1 game out of 2 and in matchup where it is usefull ,it is often useless if you are playing second.

At least the icon is making damages against everyone.

[Mikeymajq]

I've always liked the dameon prince, I always gave him an artefact before but now? Holy smokes, he got sooo much better!  I always keep hin just behind my lines and then fly him out after the lines are met. Sometimes to kill a nasty enemy leader, or to double team some unit. He's sooo good!

[ledha]

2 hours ago, kozokus said:

I guess it all depends on your meta....

I am always shocked when people find the skull beeing the best judgement.

For my part it is useless 1 game out of 2 and in matchup where it is usefull ,it is often useless if you are playing second.

At least the icon is making damages against everyone.

From my experience, the psychological impact of it as well as the huge blocking potential make him incredible. Even experienced players who know what i can/will do start to hesitate and do mistakes, because you really don't want to roll this dreaded 8

Even if, to be fair, all of our judgments are very good.

[AresX8]

6 hours ago, ledha said:

The more i play with a demon prince, the more i think it's a auto-include in the like of the bloodsecrator.

I played against Ossiarch yesterday. Goretide general + dimensionnal blade on the claw gave to my demon prince (and only with a bloodsecrator around) in charge 4 attacks 2+rr1/3+/-2/3 and 4 attacks 2+rr1/3+/-3/3

The guy slaughetered morteks (in petrifex) left and right (between 9 and 12 per combat phase) like they were nothing. And the CA is incredible. He literally soloted 20 morteks backed up by a boneshaper in 3 combat phase.

small base + fly and 12" move make him more mobile than bloodthirster, and not being a monster as well as having a 3+ save (so covert or look out sir) make him nearly as much if not more resilient in some case.

For my mortal khorne army, which lack rend and projection (except bloodwarriors), he is incredible

He's absolutely the best Goretide General right now. The Chaos Lord on Karkadrak is a close second but is tough to justify when the Daemon Prince does so much for us.

5 hours ago, kozokus said:

I guess it all depends on your meta....

I am always shocked when people find the skull beeing the best judgement.

For my part it is useless 1 game out of 2 and in matchup where it is usefull ,it is often useless if you are playing second.

At least the icon is making damages against everyone.

Wrath Axe is still my favorite Judgement, especially with how it helped me at the LVO AoS Champs last month. It's an auto include for me now.

3 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:

I've always liked the dameon prince, I always gave him an artefact before but now? Holy smokes, he got sooo much better!  I always keep hin just behind my lines and then fly him out after the lines are met. Sometimes to kill a nasty enemy leader, or to double team some unit. He's sooo good!

The only thing he needs is a survivability buff and Thronebreaker's Torc is the perfect one to have. 

[ogarrah]

Does anybody have any thoughts on the generic Chaos artefacts? I was wondering if any of them are any good and if you can take them in a Khorne army.

[Praecautus]

On 2/7/2020 at 2:00 AM, ogarrah said:

Hey guys, I've been playing Khorne since early November and after about a half-dozen matches, I've settled on this list, but I do have some questions. 

1. Should I A. take different artefacts or B. give the artefacts I currently have to different heroes? This list relies on getting my buffing heroes (Bloodsecrator and Dark Feast Slaughterpriest) up the table without getting them shot/casted off the table so I can maximize my aura radius, but I'm wondering if there is a more efficient/effective way to take artefacts to better do this.

2. Should I cut anything out to add a block of 40 Marauders? I've heard good things about them, but I'm not sure what I would sacrifice to take them. The 6 Skullcrushers seem like a good option, but I've found them to be excellent fast tar pits, especially with Bronzed Flesh.

3. Should I take any Judgements? In my experience the Wrath Axe is inconsistent at best, and I think the Bleeding Icon isn't really worth it, so the only Judgement I think I could take is Hex Gorger Skulls, although to take them I would probably have to cut out a unit of 'reavers, which I'm not sure is worth it.

4. Is there any prayers that I should/shouldn't take? I've considered Brazen Fury to help my Bloodreavers not fold in Battleshock, but with the MSU approach I'm not convinced its useful.

5. Does this list have any major flaws that I'm missing i.e. I'm not taking artefacts I should, I'm not taking a unit/ hero I should etc.? I'm hoping I can play well with this list in small local tournaments, but please tell me if this list is tactically inadequate.

Basically I use the Goretide Command ability to run MSU Bloodreavers all over the table while using the extended range on my Bloodsecrator and the Dark Feast ability to buff my Bloodreavers up to 41 attacks per unit of 10. I've found this establishes good board control and brings speed and damage from where my opponent is least expecting it. If you have any clarifying questions this list or on how I run it on the table feel free to ask. Any advice is appreciated. 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc
Bloodstoker (80)
Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut (160)
- General
- Trait: Hew the Foe
- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
6 x Mighty Skullcrushers (320)
- Ensorcelled Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Daemonblades
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Dark Feast (110)
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156

 

 

 

The only two things I can consider - and these are purely my preference - is to change a bronze flesh to sacrifice to help with tithe and add in a daemon prince for his run/charge debuff and general killiness. But that would require quite some rejigging.

Otherwise I think you are looking good

 

[Myrdin]

Hello mighty champions of Khorne!

I`ve come to you asking for advice (and ideally to offer some skulls as a payment) regarding this army!

While I have seen this army play few times, I have not done so myself, and this time I`ve found myself on the receiving end of the gory axe. While under normal circumstances I would shake my horned head, bray at the sky and go collect some tithes as well with my BoC, this time I want to go with Cities of Sigmar with which I am far less experienced to see if the squishy mortals of the realms can withstand the onslaught of Khorne`s wrath.

As such I wanted to ask you guys: the strengths of this army are pretty visible... Endless prayers, lots of fast extremely killy stuff, summoning demons and the insanely tough juggernauts. Thats all good and dandy and I kinda know that I can expect that, but....

What is the weakness of this army ?  How does one play against this army to not get minced turn1 ?

Can you maybe give any advice that might help me in my first game against Khorne, to not get totally rofl stomped ? We are going with 1500 pts, and I know there will be one BT and one  DP in his list (because he physically has only one of each).

Edited February 14, 2020 by Myrdin

[AresX8]

@Myrdin I'd say the weaknesses that comes to mind are the following:

For Mortal heavy lists, over reliance on positioning for support pieces and 5 wound support heroes to make the rest of the army hit harder. Also the lack of Rend.

For Daemon heavy lists, the real damage dealers are the Bloodthirsters (including Skarbrand) and Skulltaker. 
 

[Zamik]

5 hours ago, Myrdin said:

What is the weakness of this army ?  How does one play against this army to not get minced turn1 ?

 

Shooting is Khorne's biggest weakness. Guns with rend hurt us a lot, so your lowly block of Freeguild Handgunners can take quite a toll, especially since they can fire in the Charge phase with Stand and Shoot. A Freeguild Marksman with a Long Rifle has a 30" range and ignore Look Out, Sir! so you can snipe the Mortal support Heroes. Battlemages can also buff up these units with, say, Shield of Thorns, to deal d3 Mortal Wounds to enemies that charge them.

[ogarrah]

7 hours ago, Praecautus said:

The only two things I can consider - and these are purely my preference - is to change a bronze flesh to sacrifice to help with tithe and add in a daemon prince for his run/charge debuff and general killiness. But that would require quite some rejigging.

Otherwise I think you are looking good

 

Yeah I did end up tweaking it to take a Demon Prince. Took out the juggerlord and 3 skullcrushers, added Hex gorger skull, the demon prince and another unit of pesky souped up Bloodreavers.

[ogarrah]

3 hours ago, Zamik said:

Shooting is Khorne's biggest weakness. Guns with rend hurt us a lot, so your lowly block of Freeguild Handgunners can take quite a toll, especially since they can fire in the Charge phase with Stand and Shoot. A Freeguild Marksman with a Long Rifle has a 30" range and ignore Look Out, Sir! so you can snipe the Mortal support Heroes. Battlemages can also buff up these units with, say, Shield of Thorns, to deal d3 Mortal Wounds to enemies that charge them.

Yessir good shooting definitely screws Khorne over. I would suggest you take Irondrakes, I think there's a way you can give them plus 1 rend and they shoot twice if they don't move, I've been shredded by them before *sigh*

Edited February 14, 2020 by ogarrah

[Zamik]

19 minutes ago, ogarrah said:

Yes sir good shooting definitely screws Khorne over. I would suggest you take Irondrakes, I think there's a way you can give them plus 1 rend and they shoot twice if they don't move, I've been shredded by them before *sigh*

Irondrakes are a great idea! The standard drakegun is rend -1, the grudgehammer torpdo that the unit leader can take is rend -2 and d6 damage vs Monsters. Also, if you use the Living City's Hidden Paths ability, you can set them up 9" from the enemy and let them blaze away!

[Blisterfeet]

Hey guys got a tournament at the end of the month and I've drawn up 3 lists. Question is which kind do you prefer. Looking more multiple threats, good board control and enough all round list to improve on my results with a mortal list last year. 

List A

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Amberglaive
Skarbrand (380)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- Axe
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
30 x Bloodreavers (210)
- Meatripper Axes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 128

5 drops is a little high but it does fit in some versatile threats

List B

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Amberglaive
Skarbrand (380)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
30 x Bloodreavers (210)
- Meatripper Axes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
3 x Varanguard (300)
- 3x Ensorcelled Weapons

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Hexgorger Skulls (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125

4 drops, more anti magic for Tzeentch heavy meta but could suffer against pretrifex?!?

List C

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Archaon the Everchosen (800)
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Mage Eater
- Artefact: Amberglaive
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh

Battleline
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106

I power through the Big man himself next week and get him in this lineup and sacrifice the judgements. Might be fun but I don't know if it is stronger than the other two.

Any other lists can be suggested (I read this thread avidly though) but I do not own a BToUF, WoBT or Skullreapers. 

Thanks all

[Sleepa]

7 hours ago, Myrdin said:

What is the weakness of this army ?  How does one play against this army to not get minced turn1 ?

Can you maybe give any advice that might help me in my first game against Khorne, to not get totally rofl stomped ? We are going with 1500 pts, and I know there will be one BT and one  DP in his list (because he physically has only one of each).

As others have mentioned; Blades of Khorne (especially mortals) are very vulnerable to shooting, lose a LOT of power if their support heroes get picked off, and are pretty vulnerable to Battleshock (if several units lose a few models, the Khorne player will have some tough decisions, because they have no battleshock immunity without spending CP)

Bloodthirsters also don't tank that much damage.  They only have a 4+ armor save and no ward save. The daemon prince is a fantastic unit with a powerful command ability, but if your opponent doesn't equip him/her with a damage-boosting artifact; he won't wipe out any units on his own. 

[HarbingerGaming]

Khorne definitely falls apart to good shooting. Being capable of kiting them while shooting is also an important thing as most of the units only move 5" plus their D6 run move. This might change a bit once people get some more play with the new Wrath of the Everchosen book (run+charge Bloodthirsters in Tyrants feels like it will push itself into some level of prominence). Another big flaw is the lack of multi damage combined with rend. One thing that really bites Khorne is that beyond characters, anything higher than Damage 1 is few and far between, not to mention that rend is either on the extreme or nonexistent. A buffed anvil unit will typically just wall even our heavy hitters. Rend -1 is prevalent to some extent, mostly in our characters, and a few units, however sometimes that just isn't enough. There is a decent rise in units just having a 3+ save (be it OBR, Cities, etc.), and if any re-rolls come into play the rend is typically a wash. 

[ogarrah]

If your opponent is taking a Bloodsecrator (he should, he'd be a lunatic not to) target that first, then go for his general and slaughterpriests (if he has any). Out of the heroes, go for the Thirster last, because he will do the least to buff your opponents army.  Khorne units to watch out for in melee are Skullreapers, even without support they can do a ton of damage, skullcrushers,  they're decent in melee but they're a really tanky unit, try and charge them first and you'll  take away most of their damage output on the charge (in melee with COS they'll probably last the whole game). Wrathmonger's aren't bad in melee, the Daemon Prince can be good if your opponent is taking the right artefacts and the thirster is well... a thirster, throw cheap chaff at him and keep him locked up until you can shoot the pee out of him.For demons, Bloodletters buffed en masse are not very fun to deal with, and flesh hounds are better than you'd expect in melee. Khorne relies on careful and precise aura support for the army to really function properly, so if you can shoot the support heroes and/or spread the army apart as much as you can you should win. 

[Sleepa]

36 minutes ago, ogarrah said:

For demons, Bloodletters buffed en masse are not very fun to deal with, and flesh hounds are better than you'd expect in melee. Khorne relies on careful and precise aura support for the army to really function properly, so if you can shoot the support heroes and/or spread the army apart as much as you can you should win. 

Yeah exactly. Khorne loses so much of its teeth if you kill the heroes and buffing units. Buffed Bloodletters are truly dangerous, but kill the bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers, and those same Bloodletters will have a hard time killing more than 3 models a turn, assuming you have like a 4+ armor save.

[Myrdin]

So from what I`ve gathered, it seems that for a good Khorne army its Heroes are the key and should be focused down with shooting if possible.

Against most other units, high armor or extra save is the way to go due to limited amount of rend. And against crusher and thirster its better to charge them first with something and tie them down/slow them, until other threats have been dealt with and the shooting units can now start picking on them.

Thank you all for the advice, with this at least now I can now get a good idea how to prioritize my shooting and chaffing with small sacrificial meat shield units.