AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Troll.exe]

3 hours ago, Poryague said:

There Still good for a unit of 10+ they get +1 to hit, 20+ they gain rend 1. 

With sorcerer they get reroll save, and possible reroll hit and wound.

Chaos lord they get double activation.

Warshrine gives 6+ after save.  And prayer buffs.

Then of course the khorne buffs that work on them. They can get pretty nasty.

Good point about the 6+ warshrine save, I’d forgotten about that. With the CSL reroll save that actually starts to add up. Especially since it’s “reroll saves” not  “reroll failed saves”.  So if the attacking unit has no rend you can keep your 5s too rather then having to reroll 1-5s then applying the +1 save. That effect is exaggerated again if you’ve got bronzed flesh on them. 

[Roark]

10 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Eventually I arrived to conclusion that the mongers already do the thing chosens want to do

I think the thing the Chosen want to do is inflict mortal wounds and seek more with rerolls.

[AresX8]

GW has clarified where the Reapers of Vengeance Leave None Alive command ability is measured from. It is measured from Heroes rather than from everyone with the command ability.

Full errata is here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/dab8b493.pdf

[Smooth criminal]

I think the juggernaut update single handedly buffed us up by a tier.

Cheap juggernaut give us a reasonably priced hammer unit that's not a thirster and doesn't have same glaring weakness to shooting as thirsters. And their mw on charge gimmick allows another way of killing stuff outside of combat phase to punch through screens or get around strike first.

12 hours ago, Troll.exe said:

Looks like we’ve lost the Marauders option. They’re up to 300 points. Not horrible I guess but it’s a big jump.

Point per point they are still THE best unit we have in terms of output both baseline and with any combination of support.

The only big issue with them is battleshock vulnerability that StD can get around easily with mark and we can't without using CP.

Case can be made that 6 juggernauts are better if they charge, but they drop down in output hard if they lose 1 guy.

 

16 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

GW has clarified where the Reapers of Vengeance Leave None Alive command ability is measured from. It is measured from Heroes rather than from everyone with the command ability.

Full errata is here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/dab8b493.pdf

Finally this issue can be put down to rest.

[AresX8]

@Smooth criminal Bloodcrushers are incredible for 120 points per 3 for the same reasons you've mentioned. They, finally, outshine Bloodletters in my opinion who now get shelved with the Leave None Alive clarification. 

[ArkanautDadmiral]

Hi everyone, I’m returning to the hobby after about 20 years out (I’ve been following warhammer community, reading novels and lurking this forum for the past few years though) and I’ve decided to go with Blades of Khorne (learning how to paint again with things like Bloodletters will hopefully be a bit more forgiving than the KO I originally looked at, and Khorne has some of the best miniatures around!)

I really want to get a Daemon Prince and 2-3 Skullcannons into a list. How would you guys go about it? Is there any merit to sitting a Bloodmaster next to the skull cannons to do the volley fire CA rather than going the extra points for Gorethunder Cohort and Bloodthrone? Costs a command point but you save 200 points (after the bloodmaster to baby sit them), unless this isn’t actually possible and I’m missing something basic, which is highly likely!

Got a few ideas from playing around in Azyr but would like to see what other people would do. Thinking pure daemons although I would allow Slaughterpriests too because the models are probably my favourites in AoS so far.

Thanks guys!

[drkrash]

I honestly don't know how many effects there are that make an enemy unit attack last in the combat phase, but it seems the FAQ's "clarification" on attack first abilities limits the primary reason to take the Bloodlords,

[Troll.exe]

7 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

 

Point per point they are still THE best unit we have in terms of output both baseline and with any combination of support.

The only big issue with them is battleshock vulnerability that StD can get around easily with mark and we can't without using CP.

 

The other issue, which is more of a lineup requirement then a weakness I guess, is The warshrine, CSL etc only buff slaves to darkness/undivided mortals. So if you take the Marauders and 2-3 units in support then you limit your options for the rest of your lineup.

We’re probably talking a Bloodsecrator, 1 slaughterpriest, wrathmongers, 6mighty skullcrushers and or skarbrand.

Then a warshrine and a CSL. Warriors and Marauders for battleline. Choas knights and chaos chosen to fill out points and take the buffs after the Marauders go down. A daemon prince or Chaos lord on Krakadrak as general. 

 

Its fairly restrictive, kills a lot of our battalions. I assume you’d roll a gore tide which kills the run and charge command ability. If you run Reapers then obviously there’s the same issue with Leave none alive.

 

Has anyone got a heavy slaves mortal list? 

[Smooth criminal]

18 hours ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

Hi everyone, I’m returning to the hobby after about 20 years out (I’ve been following warhammer community, reading novels and lurking this forum for the past few years though) and I’ve decided to go with Blades of Khorne (learning how to paint again with things like Bloodletters will hopefully be a bit more forgiving than the KO I originally looked at, and Khorne has some of the best miniatures around!)

I really want to get a Daemon Prince and 2-3 Skullcannons into a list. How would you guys go about it? Is there any merit to sitting a Bloodmaster next to the skull cannons to do the volley fire CA rather than going the extra points for Gorethunder Cohort and Bloodthrone? Costs a command point but you save 200 points (after the bloodmaster to baby sit them), unless this isn’t actually possible and I’m missing something basic, which is highly likely!

Got a few ideas from playing around in Azyr but would like to see what other people would do. Thinking pure daemons although I would allow Slaughterpriests too because the models are probably my favourites in AoS so far.

Thanks guys!

Check out this list that went 5-0 for a general idea on how to use cannons in a demon list https://tabletop.to/krigsluntans-grandiosa-turnering-2019/list/tim-skold

No, you don't need the volley fire because khorne demons already reroll 1s via allegiance.

14 hours ago, Troll.exe said:

The other issue, which is more of a lineup requirement then a weakness I guess, is The warshrine, CSL etc only buff slaves to darkness/undivided mortals. So if you take the Marauders and 2-3 units in support then you limit your options for the rest of your lineup.

We’re probably talking a Bloodsecrator, 1 slaughterpriest, wrathmongers, 6mighty skullcrushers and or skarbrand.

Then a warshrine and a CSL. Warriors and Marauders for battleline. Choas knights and chaos chosen to fill out points and take the buffs after the Marauders go down. A daemon prince or Chaos lord on Krakadrak as general. 

 

Its fairly restrictive, kills a lot of our battalions. I assume you’d roll a gore tide which kills the run and charge command ability. If you run Reapers then obviously there’s the same issue with Leave none alive.

 

Has anyone got a heavy slaves mortal list? 

Marauders don't need much support. With just bloodsecrator that's already 120 attacks with rend, that's enough to kill most thing. You can throw killing frenzy or bloodstoker on top if you have a spare one.

Sadly, I think new shrine is bad unless you go StD battalion. All the people who used it with goretide reavers got screwed.

My default untested StD list would be:

Goretide

bloodsecrator - buff
priest with sacrifice - CP generator

Karkadrak/Manticore - procs the battalion
2x lord - battalion requirements filler, CP ability redunancy
shrine - buff

2x5 marauder ponies - objective grabs
1x20 marauders - screen
2x40 marauders (interchangeable with 2x15 warriors) - damage dealers
battalion

I tried doing Skarbrand, but then you:

1. Have to go reapers, robbing the rest of your army from rerolls.

2. Have to include mongers, leaving less points for proper std numbers.

3. Have very big trouble with battleline.

In general StD outside of StD allegiance have big battleline trouble. You want to have knights or ponies as your battleline, but you can't and are stuck with either giant marauder/warrior units that demand to be made main powerhouses of the list or minimal 100pt warrior units that are useless.

Khorne sacred number 8 doesn't help either. If the battalion required 6 like Slaanesh for example, it all would be much easier.

Currently I'm okay with using just 2x5 knights in my Skarbrand+Fury list as a way to kill screens or maybe 20 warriors+lord to anchor the middle. Haven't tested either yet.

[JonnyTheKing]

Do all heroes gain access to the command abilities in the BOK factions, so could a non-general demon use the command ability from Reapers of Vengeance?

[itgnightraven]

 

10 minutes ago, JonnyTheKing said:

Do all heroes gain access to the command abilities in the BOK factions, so could a non-general demon use the command ability from Reapers of Vengeance?

yes

[Zamik]

I was on the Warscroll Builder on the Community site, and I saw two separate Daemon Prince entries under Leaders for Blades of Khorne. There's the Daemon Prince of Khorne listed at 160 points, and then the Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince at 210. Is the first one an oversight? Because i thought 210 was the new price point.

[Barbatus]

I was confused too, but if you click on the "?" near the stats it redirects to the old Daemon Prince Warscroll, so it's just the old one before update, the new correct one is the 210pts Slaves To Darkness one

[THUNDERHAMMER]

It's a shame you can't take the ruinbringer warband in the khorne allegiance. I'd love to run some skullcrushers and knights just smashing in

[firtahl]

Im running an army with 10 khorgoraths, and have been fiddling with what else to add. Im curious if anyone here has any opinions. Ive liked 40 bloodreavers, 2 sets of 5 flesh hounds, a couple of slaughter priest's amd a 1 or 2 cheap supporting heros plus a judgement or two. Ive been running the skullfiend tribe, so that artifact is set.

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome!

[Roark]

15 hours ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

It's a shame you can't take the ruinbringer warband in the khorne allegiance.

Why not?

[Grimrock]

11 hours ago, Roark said:

Why not?

It isn't a khorne battalion so it can't be included in a khorne allegiance army. The god marked battalions all have a special piece that allows them to be taken in their respective allegiances, but ruinbringer doesn't. 

[Troll.exe]

So I’ve had an interesting scenario come up. Skarbrand was exposed to the second turn of a double turn at the start of battle round 3. MY screen had been taken out on the previous turn. 30 grimghasts fully buffed. At the start my opponents hero phase I used Relentless fury. Then at the start of the combat phase I used Leave none alive on Skarbrand. 

I suspected the grimghasts would kill him before he was able to retaliate. Because I used Leave none alive, the relentless fury attack after his death would of been the first attack in the combat phase. At that point I’d have to immediately pile in and attack again for Leave none alive, before I could remove the model from play.

My opponent suggested that removing the model from play was part of the relentless fury attack, which was worthwhile double checking, but the errata put that theory to bed and we played on. In the end the grimghast charge was too short to wrap around Skarbrand sufficiently to kill him so it didn’t come into play.

Key points I’ve taken from this

-Skarbrand loves relentless fury on that maximum damage bracket.

-Saving Skarbrand for round 3 when you’re more likely to have the blood tithe for relentless fury is a pretty strong strategy. Unless you’re up against shooting of course. You don’t need to use it if you don’t have to but if your opponent gets the double turn or have Alpha strike you can at least take out whatever has killed him.

 

[Smooth criminal]

That's pretty cool. Puts the opponent into damned if you do or don't scenario. Good way around those nasty melee armies like hearthguard.

 

What's the reasoning for the ruling? I see that you need to completely resolve first ability before going to second.

[Troll.exe]

Q: The Relentless Fury, Murderous Paragon and No Respite abilities allow a model that has been slain to pile in and attack before it is removed from play. What happens if more than one of these abilities apply at the same time?
A: The model would be allowed to pile in and attack once for each ability that applied to it before being removed from play.

 

From here we we can see that once relentless fury has been resolved that the model is still on the field. Since it’s an attack in the combat phase and the first attack then as long there’s something within 3” then you have to immediately apply leave none alive. 

[ArkanautDadmiral]

Has anyone put together any Bloodcrusher lists since the price drop?

[Agent of Chaos]

@Troll.exe

I took a stab at a Slaves heavy Khorne list;

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide

Leaders
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)
- General
- Axe
- Trait: Hew the Foe
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Bloodstoker (80)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
20 x Chaos Marauders (150)
- Axes & Shields
15 x Chaos Warriors (300)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
5 x Chaos Knights (180)
- Cursed Lance

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1

[Troll.exe]

@Agent of Chaos

Nice nice. So you’re thinking of spending all command points on Bloodslick ground and maybe a run and charge with the 10 blood warriors? I like it. Perhaps swap out 1 priest and 10 reavers for a warshrine? 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Troll.exe

Yeah pretty much. Use all those bodies to swarm the field in a defensive sort of set up, use Bloodslick Ground to keep the enemy at bay, counter attack with the knights, and send the blood warriors & marauders in as a kamikaze distraction force.

Played this way, Brazen Rune probably isnt much good as the enemy should be coming to me. Maybe something like Aetherquartz broach for potentially getting CP back would have more use.

There isnt much damage potential, apart from blood boils, so im not too keen to drop a priest. also dont own a warshrine but its not a bad suggestion at all. 

[BaylorCorvette]

Something to consider, is that if you have an extra artifact you could give a Khorne Daemon Prince "The Crimson Crown" artifact, so that he can use his command ability once per battle round for free. You can basically keep it up indefinitely, so long as he is alive.