AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Smooth criminal]

The general template is:

Reapers of vengeance

Rage thirster with Amberglaive, Skarbrand

or Rage thirster with Blade of shadows, Fury thirster with Blade of Judgement

or Rage thirster with Amberglaive, Rage thirster with Argath

priest with killing frenzy

bloodsecrator or mongers or both

a mortal battalion, any one will do, just don't forget to pick at least 2 units of objective grabbers

aim to have no less than 2 big units, 1 for each thirster

 

The general idea is mortals screen, score and try to do damage and force opponent's heavy hitters to come kill them to be killed by thirsters. Thirsters do all the heavy lifting, use the BPs to get them into position or fight more with them. Try not to lose both in a single turn. Double tapping Rage or Skarbrand will clear everything they are in combat with unless it's something really nasty like 30 hearthguard.

The Fury variant is less killy, but more meta-relevant with all those big monsters and first strikers running around.

I guess having 2 artifacts means having 2 battalions which means less stuff, hence why Skarbrand is so important, but then downgrade from Skarbrand to Rage/Fury buys you a battalion and you become very low drop, so I dunno.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[Blisterfeet]

What @Smooth criminal says is on point with the current top performing lists. They tend to run 3 BT in Tyrants and Minimum Gorepilrims and then mongers to buff (see the top performing list from B&G). 

I run a 2 BT list (UF and Skar) and more mortals and while it is good it is definitely not broken and more of a mid tier list.

Not run Skullmongers so I would lean on the more experienced players for that opinion.

My new Khorne list will be double battalion mortals (Gorepilrims + bloodforged) and Skar. Gonna play test it and see what it's like next year.

[AresX8]

Today on Storm of Blood I cover the Blood Tithe rewards table! 

Check it out here: 

 

[Troll.exe]

On 11/16/2019 at 8:51 AM, AresX8 said:

Today on Storm of Blood I cover the Blood Tithe rewards table! 

Check it out here: 

 

Just touching back on relentless fury. I had assumed that a model would have all the wounds that have been applied to it still in place when it makes its final attack. Brilliant for skarbrand, terrible for the other bloodthirsters. Is that not the case? I haven’t actually had this situation arise yet so I’ve never looked into it in detail. 

The other scenario that I’m curious about is this.

Start of the combat phase you use Leave none alive on a bloodthirster.  Relentless fury is effect currently but for whatever reason the bloodthirster is killed before you can attack with it. You pile in and attack due to relentless fury. At this point even though the model is already slain, can you then attack again due to Leave none alive?

The wording seems to work.

[AresX8]

@Troll.exe Huh, I could have sworn I read that Relentless Fury said you used the top most bracket. I know in the old book it specified you used the bottom bracket, in the new book it's missing this clarification. I'll make a note on the video.

I'll look into Relentless Fury plus Leave None Alive, that's also something I haven't considered.

[LeSwordfish]

I'm attending a tournament in January and want to plan my list far enough in advance that I can get it all painted.

Skarbrand - 380
Bloodsecrator - 120
Slaughterpriest - 100
Slaughterpriest - 100
Bloodstoker - 80

15x Blood Warriors - 300
10x Bloodreavers - 70
10x Bloodreavers - 70
6x Bloodcrushers - 280
5x Wrathmongers - 140
5x Flesh Hounds - 100
5x Flesh Hounds - 100

Gore Pilgrims batallion - 140
Skull Altar - 0

That leaves 20 points.

• I could swap the Bloodstoker for a command point and some Hexgorger Skulls - it's a team tournament, and I can make my niche "no magic allowed", possibly with Karanak as well.
• The basic vibe is to get lots and lots of mortal wounds out of Skarbrand, and ideally also the bloodcrushers. With a Goretide charge as well, thats three fast units hitting very hard turn one.
• One possibility is to use the Goretide command ability with the Bloodsecrator, and get a first-turn-charge with the blood warriors (in which case, the best thing to do is to combine the units I think.)
• Another option is to go Reapers of Vengeance and use the command ability to let Skarbrand pile in and attack again. They also have more "no wizards allowed" abilities.

Is this anything? What can I take to improve it? Ideally I'd prefer not to have too many extra things to paint.

[Troll.exe]

4 hours ago, LeSwordfish said:

I'm attending a tournament in January and want to plan my list far enough in advance that I can get it all painted.

Skarbrand - 380
Bloodsecrator - 120
Slaughterpriest - 100
Slaughterpriest - 100
Bloodstoker - 80

15x Blood Warriors - 300
10x Bloodreavers - 70
10x Bloodreavers - 70
6x Bloodcrushers - 280
5x Wrathmongers - 140
5x Flesh Hounds - 100
5x Flesh Hounds - 100

Gore Pilgrims batallion - 140
Skull Altar - 0

 

Is this anything? What can I take to improve it? Ideally I'd prefer not to have too many extra things to paint.

Seems like your list just lacks a lttile bit of punch. I would drop a bit of battleline in favour of a 6th hero. If you want to stick with a Goretide, @AresX8 has a good battle report on the previous page. Possible a Daemon prince with Hew the foe and thronebreakers torc? Something I’ll be trying out asap. Other then that mortal lists always go well with Skullreapers.

If you swap over to Reapers of Vengeance then I’d recommend a BoIR. I’d make one of the slaughterpriests your general and give them the first artefact. I wouldn’t give it to the bloodsecrator, he’ll draw too much attention. That way you can bang an amberglaive on the BoIR. With two bloodthirsters on the board posing that much of a threat, it’ll take some heat off your bloodsecrator too. 

 

With gore pilrims remember theres there’s always the option of sitting the bloodsecrator in cover on the alter. If you stick with the gore tide then you can always give him an ethereal amulet or thronebreakers torc and sit him on the alter for a 2+save unaffected by rend.

 

[LeSwordfish]

Hmm - I think another Bloodthirster is beyond me (didn't really enjoy painting skarbrand), but some Skullreapers, a Mighty Lord, or Karanak is possible. (I also have a lord on Juggernaut or some Skullcrushers available?) What would you suggest I lose for an extra punchy unit?

[Troll.exe]

1 hour ago, LeSwordfish said:

Hmm - I think another Bloodthirster is beyond me (didn't really enjoy painting skarbrand), but some Skullreapers, a Mighty Lord, or Karanak is possible. (I also have a lord on Juggernaut or some Skullcrushers available?) What would you suggest I lose for an extra punchy unit?

Yea I know the feeling. I’ve just finished my BoIR and I was planning on going straight in a WoKB but i definitely need a break first lol.

Could you manage a daemon prince? A lot smaller. Just dry brush the hell out of him?

Failing that the jugglord  with gorecleaver works reasonably well. I’d avoid the mighty lord and probably not the right list for karanak. Highly recommend the skullreapers.

 

You could drop some battleline. Maybe a minimum gore pilgrims. 

[LeSwordfish]

A Daemon Prince is possible, but I think I'd rather see how his new rules turn out, since the Slaves To Darkness battletome is due. I could probably paint either a daemon prince or Juggerlord after the book is announced

How good is the Chaos Lord on Manticore? I love that model.

[Troll.exe]

Choas lord on manticore is pretty good I believe. I’ve never run the model but I believe you put a dimensional blade on him for -3 rend.

Daemon prince opens up a few options with the mark of khorne with the +1 to hit plus reroll 1s vanilla. If you get killing frenzy on him too and equip him with a jadewound thorn then you’ll be hitting on a 2 reroll 1s. -2 rend. D3 damage. Mortal wounds on 4+ On the axe alone

[Grimrock]

5 hours ago, LeSwordfish said:

Hmm - I think another Bloodthirster is beyond me (didn't really enjoy painting skarbrand), but some Skullreapers, a Mighty Lord, or Karanak is possible. (I also have a lord on Juggernaut or some Skullcrushers available?) What would you suggest I lose for an extra punchy unit?

Dropping the flesh hounds would free up enough points for skullreapers. You have a decent amount of anti magic without them and your battleline is already covered with gore pilgrims, so I don't think they'd be missed. The extra 20 points combined with your leftover would also be enough for hexgorger skulls. If you decide not to go with goretide then you could probably drop the bloodwarriors down to 5 instead. They're nice but I think if you're going to use them you need to go all in or not bother.

I'm curious to hear how the bloodcrushers work for you. I like them, but never enough to justify picking them up. 1 attack on the riders hurts haha.

[LeSwordfish]

Are skullreapers that much better than a punchy character? I'm not entirely a fan of the model, and they're a lot of money for something to use once and leave sat around. A Daemon Prince/Manticore/Ghorgon*/Juggerlord*/Skullcrushers* is all something I either own (the *) or would probably enjoy painting and can put on a shelf.

[Smooth criminal]

On 11/21/2019 at 4:19 PM, LeSwordfish said:

I'm attending a tournament in January and want to plan my list far enough in advance that I can get it all painted.

Skarbrand - 380
Bloodsecrator - 120
Slaughterpriest - 100
Slaughterpriest - 100
Bloodstoker - 80

15x Blood Warriors - 300
10x Bloodreavers - 70
10x Bloodreavers - 70
6x Bloodcrushers - 280
5x Wrathmongers - 140
5x Flesh Hounds - 100
5x Flesh Hounds - 100

Gore Pilgrims batallion - 140
Skull Altar - 0

That leaves 20 points.

• I could swap the Bloodstoker for a command point and some Hexgorger Skulls - it's a team tournament, and I can make my niche "no magic allowed", possibly with Karanak as well.
• The basic vibe is to get lots and lots of mortal wounds out of Skarbrand, and ideally also the bloodcrushers. With a Goretide charge as well, thats three fast units hitting very hard turn one.
• One possibility is to use the Goretide command ability with the Bloodsecrator, and get a first-turn-charge with the blood warriors (in which case, the best thing to do is to combine the units I think.)
• Another option is to go Reapers of Vengeance and use the command ability to let Skarbrand pile in and attack again. They also have more "no wizards allowed" abilities.

Is this anything? What can I take to improve it? Ideally I'd prefer not to have too many extra things to paint.

There are 2 ways you can go about this list:

- drop hounds and stoker, add Fury thirster. Go Reapers of vengeance

- drop hounds, add 10 warrior unit. Remain in Goretide

In any case hounds serve no purpouse here and just eat drop count. At the very least they should be single big unit if you're locked into these models.

Currently you're a bit low on demons to go Reapers and low on warriors/reavers to go Goretide.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[LeSwordfish]

Sounds like, for the moment at least, the consensus is that I can do better than the Flesh Hounds? Everything else is cool, right? That at least puts off the decision for a bit longer, since I can paint the Warriors/Reavers/Wrathmongers now, and get the last 200pts done after seeing if there's anything from Slaves to Darkness I want to bring in.

[Grimrock]

59 minutes ago, LeSwordfish said:

Sounds like, for the moment at least, the consensus is that I can do better than the Flesh Hounds? Everything else is cool, right? That at least puts off the decision for a bit longer, since I can paint the Warriors/Reavers/Wrathmongers now, and get the last 200pts done after seeing if there's anything from Slaves to Darkness I want to bring in.

Yeah if you're going goretide then you could skip the hounds pretty easily.

As for the skullreapers, they're definitely punchier than most combat heroes . If you get them under the bloodsecrator and wrathmongers against a unit of 5 or more they can put out 9 mortals on average in addition to about 12 wounds before save. Toss on a bloodstoker and/or killing frenzy and they'll mulch through hordes or elites pretty easily. They're not perfect, but they're a good generalist problem solver. Also for the models, I'm not a huge fan either but I found that mixing the wrathmonger bits in (especially the helmets) made a huge difference. Leaving off the shoulder pads and back banners helped a lot as well, and since all the weapons are effectively the same now you can get good variety with the normal and daemon ones.

[Zamik]

I'm looking to build a 1k Meeting Engagement list, and I wanted to run this by y'all.

Slaughterhost: Goretide

Spearhead

Slaughterpriest (Bronzed Flesh)

5 x Blood Warriors

Main Body

Bloodsecrator (Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc)

5 x Blood Warriors

5 x Skullreapers

Rearguard

Daemon Prince of Khorne (General: Hew the Foe)

20 x Bloodreavers

Extra Command Point

Hexgorger Skulls

990/1000

My plan is to have the priest and his retinue get up behind some upfield terrain, heroes fire the Blood Warriors and Bloodreavers off into a big scrum, and the Skullreapers and Daemon Prince do the real damage.

I have some alternate ideas, such as swapping out the extra command point to add the Bleeding Icon or Wrath-Axe as long range damage dealing; or swapping out 10 Bloodreavers and the command point to take Magore's Fiends and Riptooth, whom I think are seriously underrated. What are your thoughts?

[Smooth criminal]

I think:

- daemonprince should be in main body, it's the part that arrives the earliest at the average among scenarios. Meanwhile reaguard arrives first in only 1 and only if you fail the roll off.

- CP+skulls should probably be some unit, ME is small enough that you won't get proper mileage out of either. You can have a 100pt unit or a hero instead of these. I'd prefer combining 10 warriors in main body and using these 100pt for something in spearhead

- I don't see the point of magore&dudes

Edited November 25, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[Zamik]

Thank you! Yes I definitely see dropping the judgement and extra cp would be good since I need bodies.

My thinking on keeping the Daemon Prince in rearguard is to keep him protected somewhat, and also he’s the fastest thing in the army so he won’t have trouble catching up. But it’s true that the later he comes on, the less combat he gets into, and that’s a waste of Hew the Foe.

i have a soft spot for magore’s fiends, they have really good weapon profiles for blood warriors, and riptooth lets them reroll charges. I’ve been eager to get them into a game, suboptimal though they be.

 

Thanks again, Smooth!

[Salyx]

I have a question regarding the blood tithe reward Nr. 8. It says that if you score a Hit roll of 6, you score 2 Hits. 

What about the mortal wounds on Hit rolls of 6 from Units like Bloodletters or Skullreapers? Do they apply twice as well? Or is this negated by the last sentence that you have to make a wound roll for each Hit? 

 

Moreover, I have read that Karanak does Not cost a hero choice. Is that true? Where can I find it? 

 

And why does nobody play Bloodletter? Ok, they are very squishy and you do not get that many models in, but in the current meta with Reapers of Vengeance and Unfettered Fury with Crimson Crown, they could Come in handy behind a Bloodreavers screen... 

[Agent of Chaos]

@Salyx

Not 100% on the first question but pretty sure you would do 2 x mortal wounds for each 6.

Karanak has the HERO keyword so he can use command abilities, etc. However he does not take up a "Leader" slot when writing your list. This is indicated in the points table at the end of the tome where a unit's role is noted (leader, battleline, behemoth, etc). It means in a 2K list you can have 6 heroes plus Karanak.

I took 30 bloodletters to a 2.5K tournament recently. They did OK but there are a few problems with them;

1) 32mm bases make large units unwieldy to move, yet their +1 to hit for 20 models and horde discount encourages large units.

2) 1" reach makes it hard to get models in melee range. The 6" pile in certainly helps mitigate some of this issue but doesnt resolve it completely. 

3) 5" move, can't be whipped by bloodstoker, no bonuses to run or charge, no run & charge...

4) 5+ save with 1 wound, they die to a stiff breeze

5) Only 1 attack base, need bloodsecrator and/or wrathmonger support to do real damage but its tough to maintain "wholly within aura due to unit size".  Same issue applies for Reapers of Vengeance as you must be wholly within 8" to use it. I know the theory that you dont need a hero to use the slaughterhost abilities has been floated however Im not certain that was the intention of the rule. If you can use it without a hero then the unit just has to be wholly within 8" of itself (???) which is easier to manage.

6) You can get superior output from a unit of 5 x Skullreapers while being easier to keep in range of buffs.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Agent of Chaos

[Troll.exe]

48 minutes ago, Salyx said:

I have a question regarding the blood tithe reward Nr. 8. It says that if you score a Hit roll of 6, you score 2 Hits. 

What about the mortal wounds on Hit rolls of 6 from Units like Bloodletters or Skullreapers? Do they apply twice as well? Or is this negated by the last sentence that you have to make a wound roll for each Hit? 

 

Moreover, I have read that Karanak does Not cost a hero choice. Is that true? Where can I find it? 

 

And why does nobody play Bloodletter? Ok, they are very squishy and you do not get that many models in, but in the current meta with Reapers of Vengeance and Unfettered Fury with Crimson Crown, they could Come in handy behind a Bloodreavers screen... 

 

28 minutes ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Salyx

Not 100% on the first question but pretty sure you would do 2 x mortal wounds for each 6.

Karanak has the HERO keyword so he can use command abilities, etc. However he does not take up a "Leader" slot when writing your list. This is indicated in the points table at the end of the tome where a unit's role is noted (leader, battleline, behemoth, etc). It means in a 2K list you can have 6 heroes plus Karanak.

I took 30 bloodletters to a 2.5K tournament recently. They did OK but there are a few problems with them;

1) 32mm bases make large units unwieldy to move, yet their +1 to hit for 20 models and horde discount encourages large units.

2) 1" reach makes it hard to get models in melee range. The 6" pile in certainly helps mitigate some of this issue but doesnt resolve it completely. 

3) 5" move, can't be whipped by bloodstoker, no bonuses to run or charge, no run & charge...

4) 5+ save with 1 wound, they die to a stiff breeze

5) Only 1 attack base, need bloodsecrator and/or wrathmonger support to do real damage but its tough to maintain "wholly within aura due to unit size".  Same issue applies for Reapers of Vengeance as you must be wholly within 8" to use it. I know the theory that you dont need a hero to use the slaughterhost abilities has been floated however Im not certain that was the intention of the rule. If you can use it without a hero then the unit just has to be wholly within 8" of itself (???) which is easier to manage.

6) You can get superior output from a unit of 5 x Skullreapers while being easier to keep in range of buffs.

 

You simply add an extra dice to the pool of hits for each 6. It scores 2 hits but the second hit isn’t specially a 6 so there’s no extra mortal wound unfortunately. I’m 99% sure.

 

In regard to bloodletters, I typically run 1-2 units of 20  as I have a daemon heavy list and almost always run Reapers of Vengeance. Combine them with wrathmongers, bloodsecrator and killing frenzy and they’re amazing. Double attack with “Leave none alive” and they’re next level. I actually really rate them however you’re correct there is a lot of issues. A lot lol. 

I run them in a unit of 20 for the +1 to hit and this unit size also seems to be the max to comfortably keep them wholly with wrathmongers. The key for me with the wrathmongers was when I started running them up in a line perpendicular to the enemy. Effectively only using the foremost wrathmonger to achieve the wholly within 8”.

I normally set them up in two rows of 10 and bargain on get 3-4 of the second rank into combat by taking advantage of the round bases. 2” reach would be amazing but it’s something I guess.

They do have reroll charges vanilla which is nice and really the only other option for movement is a murderhost. 

100% agree with the 5+ save being an issue lol. I screen them every game. Absolutely have to hit first.

The  reason I always take them is the synergy with Reapers of vengeance and the bloodthirsters. It’s just another threat on the field really. If you lose your BoIR and Skarbrand then you can still setup for a double attack with the bloodletters. Takes all the same buffs and uses the same command ability. Definitely not an easy unit to get to work for you but it can be done.

 

 

[Agent of Chaos]

Well put! Definitely still a viable unit but you have to really think about how you will use them and buff them.

20 man units are definitely easier to manage but it only takes a single casualty to lose the +1 to hit bonus. 

[Jurfus]

Question about the Skullreapers;

Do you have to equip the full unit with the same type of weapon still? i.e. Gore-slick blades OR daemonblades as stated in the manual.

Since the latest battletome lists all the different weapon options as the same.

ty in advance 

[relic456]

1 hour ago, Jurfus said:

Question about the Skullreapers;

Do you have to equip the full unit with the same type of weapon still? i.e. Gore-slick blades OR daemonblades as stated in the manual.

Since the latest battletome lists all the different weapon options as the same.

ty in advance 

You can mix and match now, as per the warscroll: