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AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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2 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Question is, when exactly does the effect take place? 

Sounds like a damn good candidate for an FAQ to me. RAW it can be any time during the combat phase. Don't see why it couldn't be straight after your opponent rolled his piddly bird-dog attacks but before it ran away.

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5 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Seeking clarification from the Khorne brains trust on the Banner of Wraith. Exact wording of the artifact is; "In the combat phase, roll a dice for each enemy unit within 8" of the bearer. On  a 4+ that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds."

I know that it works in either player's combat phase. Question is, when exactly does the effect take place? 

At the beginning of the phase? At the end? Sometime during? Does it depend on whose turn it is? Whats the protocol when its my opponent's turn?

Does it happen when you activate the Bloodsecrator in combat? What if he isn't within 3" and so not activating? Does it cost an activation for the effect to go off (doubt it).

This came up in a game where I was attacked by gryph hounds who, after attacking, can move out of combat and so moved out of the 8" range. Should I have been able to use the banner before they did their attack and move?

As I understand. In your turn it’s when you want, in your opponents turn it’s after their start of turn abilities

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15 hours ago, Charleston said:

How do you guys actually play against Sylvaneth? I am always somehow scarred of running into the woods as there seem to be so many weird mortal wound effects in any single phase of the game that I really can´t grasp my head around it. It it eve worth bothering, as we cannot counter them? I really hate terrain that deals damage and can be placed like directly in my face~

Well, for the first thing I try to avoid playing against them, tbh. Just as I do avoid playing against several other factions.

We kind of have to go into the forests, because they will kind of control the map with those anyway.  That's what is the deal for that army, so kind of their core element. We just can't do anything against it, since the rule designer wants it to be that way, no matter what we do.

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2 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@Praecautus I dont mind that interpretation at all but how do I justify it to opponents?

This article will be the best starting point

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/21/who-fights-first/

the banner is an ability not an activation to happens independently of unit activation. There was a big discussion about this on the khorne Facebook page too but it may be buried now

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15 hours ago, Praecautus said:

As I understand. In your turn it’s when you want, in your opponents turn it’s after their start of turn abilities

According to FAQ (Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Core Rules & Base Sizes - Designers Commentary), it seems to be :

  • concerning the moment in the combat phase, it's up to the player currently playing his turn. which globally means :
    • in your turn you will choose it to happen before any unit attacks in the normal combat sequence,
    • in your opponent turn it'll be after every unit has fought in the normal combat sequence.
  • it will always be after the "start of phase" abilities and before the "end of phase" abilities. Because "during the phase" means "after the start of the phase and before the end of phase"
Edited by Beulettor
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7 hours ago, Beulettor said:

According to FAQ (Warhammer Age of Sigmar: Core Rules & Base Sizes - Designers Commentary), it seems to be :

  • concerning the moment in the combat phase, it's up to the player currently playing his turn. which globally means :
    • in your turn you will choose it to happen before any unit attacks in the normal combat sequence,
    • in your opponent turn it'll be after every unit has fought in the normal combat sequence.
  • it will always be after the "start of phase" abilities and before the "end of phase" abilities. Because "during the phase" means "after the start of the phase and before the end of phase"

Thanks, had forgotten that little nugget 

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Hi guys,

 

I own 4 Khorgoraths and now I want to start an army using them. I also like the look of Bloodreavers. Both units don´t seem to get much love these days.

 

Well, is there any advice you can give on how to start an army using Bloodreavers, Khorgoraths, some Daemon Prince and Flesh Hounds? Would like to see these miniatures on the table.

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2 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Hi guys,

 

I own 4 Khorgoraths and now I want to start an army using them. I also like the look of Bloodreavers. Both units don´t seem to get much love these days.

 

Well, is there any advice you can give on how to start an army using Bloodreavers, Khorgoraths, some Daemon Prince and Flesh Hounds? Would like to see these miniatures on the table.

Both units are good, but can be overshadowed. They do have uses.

if building a khorgorath list then you should go skull fiend host to make the most of them. I would also consider upping to 6 (you could use 2 spawn as proxies for now)

Reavers are not a hammer or anvil,  but are a viable utility unit eg speed bump, objective grabber, source of tithe. They should be taken in units of 10 due to battleshock and should be armed with meatripper axes.

You will need some other bigger hammer units and some good anvils. On that note

Daemon prince, if you take him then give him the sword of judgement

take another big hero sledgehammer, there are several good choices eg a thirster, manticore lord, juggernaut lord, etc

Skull reapers are well worth investing in, 10 is a good start

 

I would also look to add some blood warriors, 2 priests and a blood secrator.

For battalions then gorepilgrims is a good start

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On 8/4/2019 at 9:55 AM, Charleston said:

How do you guys actually play against Sylvaneth? I am always somehow scarred of running into the woods as there seem to be so many weird mortal wound effects in any single phase of the game that I really can´t grasp my head around it. It it eve worth bothering, as we cannot counter them? I really hate terrain that deals damage and can be placed like directly in my face~

Alright, so I've fought the new sylvaneth twice so far and here's what I'd say to do to minimize the murder caused by the (actual) trees. First of all, you have to acknowledge the possible mortals that are coming out of the woods (and the negatives to hit). That's potentially 1d3 +1d3 times however many spells they can get off (assuming that's how it still works, my opponents magic was shut down pretty hard so when I made it to them it was too late). I might post a report later. The sources are as follows:

Ending a move or charge within an inch of a woods. That's a 1 in 6 chance of happening so I wouldn't be too concerned with that to begin with, but assuming that you are. The rule states that it only happens in the charge phase and the movement phase. Meaning that you can pile into the forest and not endanger your unit (from that particular ability). The 6" pile in thirster could be an excellent way to avoid this particular danger or you'll have to rely on luck or careful positioning.

Magic. Once again, not sure how the roused by magic thing works exactly in this version, but either way  its still based on spells. The hex gorger skulls are your friends here as would be aggressive use of the bloodsecrator to make sure that nothing can reliably go off. sometimes you can also just play mind games with your opponent. Karnak is excellent for this. He inflicts d3 mortals onto any caster that he unbinds (including endless spells that are already down) so I've had opponents opt out of casting anything but the most important of spells with him on the table. You can also just murder the casters. Slaughter priests, Karnak, … marauder horsemen?. Basically ranged damage  can eliminate the small squishy casters and maybe plink wounds off the big guys. You'll probably have to do it the hard way against he bigg'uns though.

There is one final way to neutralize the trees. Movement/placement. The trees have to be an inch away from anything including models, so if you place your models right, just one can prevent them from setting up the new trees. Depending on how densely packed  your terrain is it could be difficult to  place the trees to begin with, limiting them to set areas that you can predict and then move chaff to block them with. Raiders, centigors or if you don't like allies, marauder horsemen are all excellent candidates for this duty. (maybe flesh hounds too?) Even if they're doing that mini forest thing I've been hearing about it still has a minimum base size.

14 hours ago, Hannibal said:

Well, is there any advice you can give on how to start an army using Bloodreavers, Khorgoraths, some Daemon Prince and Flesh Hounds? Would like to see these miniatures on the table.

The standard rules for buffing units still apply here. Bloodsecrators, wrathmongers, and slaughter priests are your friends, you just have to, as always, keep  the bubbles in mind. Skullfiends are the easiest way of boosting korgies and the other buff can serve your other mortals well depending. One major thing to keep in mid with the korgoraths is their bravery of 6. One casualty could cause another to run. It's a danger to consider when list building and keep in mind on the table. Reavers can kill support units when buffed but are exceptionally difficult to make into real hammers which is why they're usually relegated to chaff duty. Until it's faq'd the sword of judgments makes a prince into a hero murdering machine, so that's a reasonable choice for him. Hounds are just a good all rounder with the benefit of unbinding. The biggest issue would be the number of drops in your list.

Edited by TheArborealWalrus
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On 8/6/2019 at 1:32 PM, Hannibal said:

Hi guys,

 

I own 4 Khorgoraths and now I want to start an army using them. I also like the look of Bloodreavers. Both units don´t seem to get much love these days.

 

Well, is there any advice you can give on how to start an army using Bloodreavers, Khorgoraths, some Daemon Prince and Flesh Hounds? Would like to see these miniatures on the table.

Take that one host that gets CP ability for khorgoraths. It's solid, but hardly anyone bothers with enough khorgoraths to play it, you've hit the jackpot.

Build around the skulltake battalion.

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On 8/4/2019 at 7:55 PM, Charleston said:

How do you guys actually play against Sylvaneth? I am always somehow scarred of running into the woods as there seem to be so many weird mortal wound effects in any single phase of the game that I really can´t grasp my head around it. It it eve worth bothering, as we cannot counter them? I really hate terrain that deals damage and can be placed like directly in my face~

My rule of thumb against sylvaneth is to assume they can move anything anywhere so every backline objective needs a babysitter.

Also they are surprisingly sensitive to our anti-wizard kit. They need to cast spells to fully work and don't have much in terms of casting bonuses.

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I'll  be attending a tournament this Sunday with this list.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (270)
- General
- Trait: Mage Eater 
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Skarbrand (380)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
30 x Bloodletters (300)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
 

I think it could be considering a slight variation to a list that's been floating around for a while now.  Overall, I prepared about 4 lists (Archaon, Tyrants, Tyrants with another battalion and this one) and I found that it provides the best balance between threats, utility as well as number of drops. (at least that's how I determine my lists, like giving everything except chaff a "weight", summing it up, counting ranged units, prayers, drops, initial CP... and then compare the stats)

Before we had to turn in our lists to the TO, I debated switching 5 Blood Warriors and 30 Bloodletters for Bleeding Icon and 10 Skullreapers. In the end I decided to commit the former variant, as I wanted a unit with a big footprint AND model count but there is a valid argument for both versions (e.g. Bloodletters have rend and synergy with Reapers of Vengeance while Skullreapers have better saves and are easier to move around...). Another consideration was the extra CP vs Bleeding Icon. After the first test game I decided to roll with the extra CP. Although it didn't feel necessary, it felt more versatile than the Icon (it is my favorite prayer visually though :( )

Sadly, I didn't have a whole lot of time to prepare, i.e. actual games. I played about 2 in the last couple months (one of them with an Archaon list), so I am not expecting any outstanding moves on my part. :D 

I'll probably be spending tomorrow rereading the played scenarios, practicing some deployment and fixing a couple models. Who knows, maybe I'll get lucky but either way it will be loads of fun!

PS: there are some wild lists, like someone is bringing Free Peoples with 120 Handgunners or IDK with 24 eels O_O

Edited by Xasz
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Hey, got a tournament coming up next weekend and wanted to bring my Khorne beastmen to it. Looking for feedback on this list. A little concerned on whether or not there's enough anti magic in it. Expecting at least 1 skaven, stormcast, and slaanesh, (maybe an ironjaws) the rest are very much up in the air. The skullfiends are there to give my mortals basically the same ability as my beastmen (ease of remembrance) and + 2 attacks doombull isn't bad. I'm willing to rejigger my list pretty hard, but the beastmen are the core. Drops could also be a problem.  Thanks for any help/ideas.

For Khorne and the Everchosen!!!

Spoiler

 

2,000pts Blades of Khorne, Skullfiend tribe - 7 drops

- Brass Despoilers

Doombull - general, crowncleaver

4x3 Bullgors - great axes

3x10 gors - shields

2x5 centigor

- 2x5 wrathmongers

- Bloodsecrator - banner of wrath

- 2 slaughterpriests - killing frenzy, ? prayer(bronzed flesh?)

- 10 ungor raiders

 

 

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44 minutes ago, whiskeytango said:

Whats the most anti-magic list for 1500pts you guys can come up with? I'm thinking it would have to be Reapers of Vengeance, and include Karanak and a WoK Thirster.

I don't have the points on me right now so I can't make a list, but probably something with karanak, the hexgorger skulls, then your choice of unbinds. If you want to maximize anti-magic then WoK and karanak as leader with flesh hounds as battleline. A couple of priests for additional unbinds + the hexgorgers. Unless you're sticking with only daemons, in which case you've pretty much have a handle on it. May I ask why you're looking for maximum magic kicking?

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1 hour ago, Amradiel said:

Is it possible to build a competitive mortal list including Skarbrand? I prefer mortals but really love the Skarbrand model.

Yes it is, although I would suggest any list with Skarbrand is somewhat competitive.

Any competitive list, mortal or daemon, will want at least one slaughterpriest and probably a bloodsecrator too.

Gore Pilgrims is still one of the best battalions for mortals and Skarbrand will benefit greatly from the extra attacks to his axes. It will also help shut down your opponents magic.

You will want to screen him so he doesnt get into combat before you are ready so a unit or 2 of blood reavers would be a good idea (which you can fit in gore pilgrims along with a unit of blood warriors). 

Reapers of Vengeance would be a good choice for slaughter host so Skarbrand can attack twice, or Goretide for getting extra movement out of your reavers/warriors. Either way you want an extra command point.

If you throw all of the above together it sets you back around 1200 with the remaining points spent on whatever you like based on what you think the list needs or your opponent is bringing.

Sample List with 270 points to play with;

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Skarbrand (380)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Bloodsecrator (120)

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (140)

Total: 1230 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 2

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Had yesterday a game with Khorne against Sylvaneth. I was quite nervous because my opponent took Allarielle in a 1250pts game, together with a Durthu, that Wych-Hero that can summon Dryads and 10 Revenants. I played Reapers of Vengence with 2x10 Bloodletters, 5 Wrathmongers, 5 Skullreapers, Bloodsecrator, 2 Slaughterpriests, MLoK and a Skulltaker. Also Hexgorgers and the Axe. We played with only faction terrain and the mission was "Falling Stars" From GHB18.

Well, while I usualy see 660pts models dominate the whole game from early on, this time it wasn´t the case. I was able to shut down all his magic from turn 2 and 3 as he moved his casters quite into hexgorger skull range and right into the Altar which I placed as far in the middle as possible. -3 to Cast is something even Allarielle has to learn to deal with.

The Game ended with me killing his last Units in early turn 4. Up to this point he had only Allarielle with 2 Wounds, a Branchwych which was about to duell the Skulltaker and a single Dryad against 4 Angry Wrathmongers (ok, thoose guys are always angry, so nevermind!).

All in all I won due to the fact that my opponent relied too heavy on magic and didn´t use Allarielle offensive enough to get me into trouble. The Kurnoth Hunters he summoned were slayed by the Skulltaker through the Reapers-Double-Combar-CA and beside of this Allarielle really did not much this game. Meanwhile I was also happy that the Hexgorgers didn´t disappear once in the game after beeing summoned once. Allarielle had one critical spell that gave her +2 to cast, so she could resist the Hexgorgers, but with the auto-unbind for 2 Bloodtithe this could be also handled quite nice.

The Wyldwoods were a bigger issue for my enemy than for me. The MW from the on-cast-awakening didn´t appear as no spells were casted and also the MW through the Charge Phase didn´t go off once. Instead he placed the woods in a weird way thaqt he couldn´t set up Allarielle to charge my weak side as her base couldn´t fit between the woods.

I noticed how much more potential the Reapers of Vengence bring. The Command Ability is just sick, while the Mage-Hate-General Trait allows to field a Slaughterpriest less to get on the right ammount of unbinds.

 

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