AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Battlefury]

For narrative play it is pretty funny to have them mercenaries.

For matched play it will be kind of redundant, I'd suggest.

To be honest, I don't get the point of this mechanic being implemented in the game at all. If we have opportunities to mix everything together, why Battletomes then? What would the Grant Alliances have of benefit then?

Looks like the very beginning of AoS for me, where we could just smash together, what we wanted to have...but now it has point values.
Don't really like the idea of it.

[Galdenistal]

I think the Mercenaries system is designed to sell models from other factions that you might never have thought of buying.

[ledha]

Did anyone here thought about using gorebeast chariot ?

They are khorne and mortals, so can be buffed by everything. For less than a khorgorath, they have 8 wounds, a 4+ save, and a 8" move, make MW in charge and THREE ATTACK PROFILES :  3 attaques 4+/3+/-/2 (double un charge if 8+), 3 attacks 4+/3+/-1/1 and 2 attacks 4+/4+/-/1

That mean that a single +1 attack will actually give them +3 attacks (one for each profile), meaning buffs are expotiennaly good on them.

For 300 pts, a single unit buffed by a bloodstocker and a +1 to hit (with a bloodsecrator around) making a 5+ move charge make 21 attacks 3+/3+/-/2, 12 attacks  3+/3+/-1/1, 9 attacks 3+/4+/-/1, rerolling all wounds.

That seems pretty cheap.

Edited June 12, 2019 by ledha

[Galdenistal]

1 hour ago, ledha said:

Did anyone here thought about using gorebeast chariot ?

I've got 2 of them .. I bought that box set with 2 Chariots and 5 Knights that came out (last year?).

They have been useful to me in the few games I've played with them, also the Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount can also use his command ability on them to give +1 to hit. I like their big bases, you can rotate them sideways to block a lot of ground. Just don't forgot about the impact hits like I usually do

They require quite a bit of support, but I've noticed opponents tend to spend a lot of resources to stop them too, which can take the heat off something else that you think is more important.

[THUNDERHAMMER]

Warshrine? Y/n?

[AresX8]

16 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

@AresX8

I dont own any judgements so they havent become a factor in my planning as yet however I think the Hexgorger Skulls would have been useful that game. As the game was mostly played in his half, having one Priest wasnt really a factor. I think he was in range for one bloodboil the whole game with his main role being Blood Sacrifice and an unbind each round. 

Why did I take a Skullmaster? I dont own a Skulltaker for a start! Besides that I've never used him before and thought his speed would be handy for keeping up with the hounds and bloodcrushers who would otherwise be without hero support. Plus he is likely to be dismissed as a threat and if he could get a sneaky charge onto a Gaunt Summoner or Blue Scribes etc I would back him to get the job done. 

Really looking forward to running the Unfettered Fury with the Crimson Crown next game. So many shenanigans!

Ok, understood, thanks for the input!

 

35 minutes ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

Warshrine? Y/n?

Are you taking a lot of Bloodreavers? If so, then absolutely, as they loooove a mobile totem and its warscroll prayer is absolutely amazing for them. It's also another Priest, so it can take a Blood Blessing AND bring out Judgements.

Edited June 12, 2019 by AresX8

[Praecautus]

4 hours ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

Warshrine? Y/n?

I take one with 3 priests, love the prayers. 

Shrine had always been good in my Mortal army. Love whipping a mortal unit and getting the prayer off so they reroll all hits and wounds. The ward save just adds a bit of insult to injury 😀 for 160 pts I find it’s cheap to get in and takes a lot of flak so something more important is not being attacked.

[Praecautus]

8 hours ago, ledha said:

Did anyone here thought about using gorebeast chariot ?

They are khorne and mortals, so can be buffed by everything. For less than a khorgorath, they have 8 wounds, a 4+ save, and a 8" move, make MW in charge and THREE ATTACK PROFILES :  3 attaques 4+/3+/-/2 (double un charge if 8+), 3 attacks 4+/3+/-1/1 and 2 attacks 4+/4+/-/1

That mean that a single +1 attack will actually give them +3 attacks (one for each profile), meaning buffs are expotiennaly good on them.

For 300 pts, a single unit buffed by a bloodstocker and a +1 to hit (with a bloodsecrator around) making a 5+ move charge make 21 attacks 3+/3+/-/2, 12 attacks  3+/3+/-1/1, 9 attacks 3+/4+/-/1, rerolling all wounds.

That seems pretty cheap.

I have 2 gore beast chariots. Pretty good fun and as others have said people aim to take them out. I think pretty nifty unit and can do a job for us.

Dont forget the bonus attacks on a big charge, which can be easier to do it whipped

if you have Sayl the faithless you could deepstrike them too.

 

[Retro]

1 hour ago, Praecautus said:

I have 2 gore beast chariots. Pretty good fun and as others have said people aim to take them out. I think pretty nifty unit and can do a job for us.

Dont forget the bonus attacks on a big charge, which can be easier to do it whipped

if you have Sayl the faithless you could deepstrike them too.

 

I still want to try sayl, war mammoth and bloodstoker combo. It would be one hell of a backfield distraction

[TheArborealWalrus]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:54 AM, Darksteve said:

I think the first list will serve you much better than the second.

May I ask the reasoning behind those thoughts? I'm trying to refine them further and since neither have had any hiccups I was looking for any possible improvements/flaws. 

 

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:54 AM, Darksteve said:

Why skullfiend tribe though?

Pretty simple. It serves two primary purposes. 1: The +2 attacks artifact that isn't dependent on anything other than KHORNE keyword so I can put it anywhere. 2: Both lists, but especially the first one, are trying to have independent murder trains running around, usually skullreapers. The main thing that reapers don't get rerolls against are heroes who will then be handing out rerolls of 1 if we (or they) decide to go frolicking. Plus many heroes are hanging around the front lines anyways.

Other (smaller) factors: It was also more valuable to these lists than the gore tide or either daemon slaughterhost (although the always strikes first artifact tempted me to look at them). I wasn't really going to use either command ability so no real loss there. The goretide's command trait wouldn't help out as much as possibly landing a ton of blood tithes from explosions(for list 1), so another point to the skullfiends. I only like using goretide's artifact on models with a 3+ so without a worthy candidate in the lists that was another problem. Skullfiends was more arbitrarily chosen in the second list. Plus there, with a little luck, reroll 1s for everyone.

20 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Khorne gunline is back on and could be a fun, fluffy list.

Make some wicked chaos dwarf conversions. Even if the order cannons are bad. Sometimes rule of cool is king!

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 9:59 PM, Sleepa said:

I'm thinking about putting this together as a MW-focused list that asks the opponent to constantly adjust their threat-assessment of the table.

I like the idea. (partially where my head was at with list 1(mostly MW spam)) I just feel like your army seems to have very vulnerable teeth. It's not hard to kill thirsters or even slaughterpriests and the crushers have felt more like an (actual) anvil to me rather than a hammer. Although the skullgrinder might have words with me regarding the possible applications of anvils.

[jazman84]

On 6/10/2019 at 7:47 PM, RussianBot454 said:

Brutal! Only thing is Karanak will need to get closer to the target before the next hero phase before he can summon more yappers. If your opponent is clever they will fall back or aim to gun Karanak down before he gets the chance. Still, it's a great way to redeploy if you need to.

You could Bloodtithe-move him after the teleport as both are *at the beginning* abilities (at least that's how I understand it).

[RussianBot454]

7 hours ago, jazman84 said:

You could Bloodtithe-move him after the teleport as both are *at the beginning* abilities (at least that's how I understand it).

That's true. I guess the whole thing is situational so it could work out great. But because we have to throw the rest of out tithe away when we blink it might be useful to spend that tithe elsewhere. I reckon it's a great tool in a smaller game though!

[Sleepa]

16 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

I like the idea. (partially where my head was at with list 1(mostly MW spam)) I just feel like your army seems to have very vulnerable teeth. It's not hard to kill thirsters or even slaughterpriests and the crushers have felt more like an (actual) anvil to me rather than a hammer. Although the skullgrinder might have words with me regarding the possible applications of anvils.

I hear where you're coming from regarding the resilience in my list. That's one of the reasons I posted it up here for feedback. Funny you should mention the Skullcrushers. They're actually in the list to function as a fast anvil, to intercept and tie up units that might otherwise be headhunting my fragile dps. With bronzed flesh, that's 30 wounds on a 2+ save, which seems glorious to me. The best part, is that they too can't reeeeally be ignored, because if the can get close enough to charge before losing a model, the impact hits they deal (with the unit size bonus) can be almost enough to cripple if not wipe out many Hammer units.

The Blood warriors are meant to either screen the real threats or jump on objectives if I don't have to worry about high mobility opponents, and the two units of reavers are literally just chaff screens, taken to zone out charges and deepstriking, or to eat wounds from Blood Sacrifice for those tasty Blood Tithe points.

 

6 hours ago, RussianBot454 said:

That's true. I guess the whole thing is situational so it could work out great. But because we have to throw the rest of out tithe away when we blink it might be useful to spend that tithe elsewhere. I reckon it's a great tool in a smaller game though!

I think in general if a Blades of Khorne player is really on their game, they'll be finding a lot of opportunities to cash in their blood tithe every battle round. I wouldn't worry about it going to waste, unless you get completely tabled in a single turn and go over the cap. I haven't got my army built yet, but I've played against a local Khorne player who always uses his Blood Tithe to summon, and in our game I saw so many windows of opportunity where if he spent 2 to counter a spell, spent 3 to move or charge, or spent 4 to get a free pile-in/attack, I'd have been so screwed.

[Sleboda]

Hi all,

I got another game in tonight (note that this is not a battle report) and it went as poorly as usual. I decided to drop the last two mortal components from the army since they were doing so, so very little to help and they added a level of complexity/stuff-to-remember that I found distracting. So, with the Bloodsecrator and the Priest gone, I was able to focus completely on Tyrants from the Bloodlords host.

It was bad. Really bad. My opponent was a perfectly fine guy whom I've known for years and have good times playing against. His Stormcast list was actually fairly reasonable - not one of those SuperDuperHyperRefined Deathmachines. Great list, just not unfun.

Still, a unit of 20 bloodletters and a unit of 5 hounds were both dead before I got to take a turn. So, I was right away down 320 points, or 15% of the army, before I went. At least I started with two Tithe points!

My General, a Fury bloodthister was dead in round two.  Didn't help that we played Escalation and all three of the big guys had to start bottled up in the far corner of the board.

I even, at one point, got to use Tithe points to hit with Wrath in the Hero Phase and again in the Combat Phase, where, combined, he killed two unkillable Stormcast.

Really, this is a majorly disappointing army, but I am committed.  The event is only a few weeks away, and I don't have time to abandon this army for one that has a chance.

 

How in the heck do players make demons of Khorne work? Asking honestly.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Sleboda

[Battlefury]

@SlebodaI have won a game versus Legions of N. this week.

I decided to go for an army, that was mosly non demons.

So it was:

Reapers of Vengeance
1 Blood Thirster of Insenstae Rage wit the artefact and ability by Reapers of Vengeance
1 Slaughterpriest
1 Exalted DB
1 Skullgrinder
4x5 Blood Warriors
1x10 Chaos Marauder Horsemen
2x5 Skullreapers

We played 1500 points.

To have it straight, the Exalted DB and the Skullgrinder did just nothing. The BD wasn't in combat and for the Skullgrinder I just rolled very ****** 2 times. So thats ok though.
The Marauder Horsemen are very very good for their 180 points! They have the javelins and both the icon and the banner. Getting the mark of Khorne they are very useful with their 12" move! They alone straight up wiped a 10er group of Zombie dogs in one shooting phase and the combat phase.
Blood Warriors held 40 Skeletons in place, together with the SKullreapers, wich where in the 2nd line to wait for charges, when the Blood Warriors would be slain in combat.
Until round 3 it went good for the LoN player, but then I pulled my ace.
I had space to place the BT right in the middle between all of his heroes ( Black Coach, Arkhan, Necromancer an a Wight King ). I activated the Reapers of Vengeance ability, wich let the BT fight twice. I rolled 3 times a 6 for the MW, wich made straight 12 MW on each unit within 8" of him. Arkhan, Wicht King, Necromancer and 12 Skeleton Warriors where gone after that. The Black Coach was there for 1 wound. At the second activation the BT did literally only 2 damage... . So even the other player stated " wow, that BT is a realy hit or ****** model ". And he is right... .
The BC on his army brought the BT to 4 wounds after piling in. So what the heck... .

I have won the game by wiping his army beginning round 5 and thefore winning with 1 victory point.

So what is my suggestion. Take Slaves to Drkness Modells, that fit your strategy. Our army will be a one trick pony in every single game.

So calculate your strategy.
Choose the best tools for that from everythig, that can have the Khorne keyword, really.
Always make smart decisions and try to pull the enemy to positions, you wanna have him.
Try to buff everything, so the statistical potential of rolling good wents better. That means more Hits, Hitting better, Wounding better. That's really what you can do.

And now the one point, that I really don't like, but is a very strong part of our armie's effectivity: lucky rolls
Without being lucky, our amry lacks anything.

The other player was really wondering, why Blood Warriors hit like feathers. And why they do not have rend weapons. And why the heck the Skullreapers do not have rend weapons at all, except the mutation.
And he was right once more.
Our army, meaning the units themselves, do not really anything right. It comes down to strong and buffed hero choices and lucky rolls.

Hope that helps.
I really see your point here. And we just can't compete with several armies like SCE, where we kind of can not destroy anything. Especially SCE, who can reroll kind of everything.
 

[Sleboda]

33 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Without being lucky, our amry lacks anything.

Hope that helps.

First off, thank you for the reply and ideas.

Second, mortals! No  gosh darn mortals! So, it doesn't help, unfortunately.

 

Lastly, yeah, luck. I had a moment where two sixes would have wiped out three units (Rage with rule), but failed.  Ah well.

[pollo1126]

@Sleboda

I don't mean to burst your bubble but a 100% daemon army will not work. Blood letters are bad. They are only ever good with millions of buffs, flesh hounds are almost objectively better in a reapers list. Also you need a slaughterpreist. Judgments are good and prayers are also good, not to mention Bloodboil. Run priests!! As for the bloodsecrator, I am a firm believer that ever khorne lost needs one. Almost ever unit in khorne wants another attack, and it gives the enemy another threat. Here's a list of you want to stay mostly daemons

Wok bloodthirster

General, mage eater, crimson crown

Unfettered bloodthirster

Skullshard mantle

Other bloodthirster

Amberglaive

Bloodsecrator

Slaughterpreist

Skulltaker

4x5 hounds

Hexgorger skulls

Tyrants of blood

Murderhost

This is Matt Campbell's list that won Sydney slaughter recently.

[whispersofblood]

On 6/6/2019 at 8:17 PM, Battlefury said:

Battletome is out now for a while.

Does anyone right now have any solid experience, in how to actually win?
And by winning I mean not struggling to at least have that 1 victory point, that lead to a victory.

Does anyone also have experience in how it went for them vs tier 1 armies?

The game at the moment is about these 3 things. 

Low drops: a lot of the b+/a- tier need to choose first or second. If you give that choice away with a high drop count you are starting the game on the back foot.

Chaff: taking away board space from the opponent, and just not letting them play. You can do this with cheap units, fast units, endless spells or judgments but again if you aren't competing in this space you will likely lose that majority of your games.

Hitting power: there is only one sort that matters. The kind of hitting power that is reliable, it's lows are high and it spikes higher. Fast and can bypass screens at least. You can bypass screens however you'd like (dbl pile-in, long activation ranges, fly, high ranged dmg)

If your list doesn't do these things it's just not going to reliably win games, it might not even be in the game more often then not.

Now unfortunately the BoK is very bloated and there is a lot of fairly priced units that just serve no function in the game at the moment. 

Khorne does have one very strong mechanic and that is out of phase or order fighting and movement.

[Smooth criminal]

6 hours ago, Battlefury said:

And now the one point, that I really don't like, but is a very strong part of our armie's effectivity: lucky rolls
Without being lucky, our amry lacks anything.

You are not wrong, but other top armies also have lucky mechanics. Terrorgheist wouldn't be so good without his 6 mws ability. Slaanesh has exploding 6s and the mws on KoS. Fyreslayers have super runes.

I think only DoK and Fec have nothing at this scale.

Maybe the way to go with competitive Khorne is just maximizing your chance at 6s with double tapping IR/Skarbrand/Skulltaker/Letters with +attack buffs. If the army can't perform well enough without rolling hot then go all-in on rolling hot.

[THUNDERHAMMER]

"Usually, books published in the immediate lead-up to the General’s Handbook would not see points changes. However, to make sure your Pitched Battles are as balanced as possible, we’ll be releasing an early (and free) points update to the most recent battletomes – for reference, that’s ...., Blades of Khorne, . Keep an eye out for this – and the General’s Handbook 2019 FAQ – in early July."

Nice to see we might get some changes

[Darksteve]

17 minutes ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

"Usually, books published in the immediate lead-up to the General’s Handbook would not see points changes. However, to make sure your Pitched Battles are as balanced as possible, we’ll be releasing an early (and free) points update to the most recent battletomes – for reference, that’s ...., Blades of Khorne, . Keep an eye out for this – and the General’s Handbook 2019 FAQ – in early July."

Nice to see we might get some changes

In b4 slaughterpriest cost increase to 140

[Laier]

Khorne heralds (all three of them) shold have Priest keyword.

Simple, elegant, cool.

[Battlefury]

1 hour ago, Darksteve said:

In b4 slaughterpriest cost increase to 140

Really? Is that confirmed?

[kenshin620]

56 minutes ago, Laier said:

Khorne heralds (all three of them) shold have Priest keyword.

Simple, elegant, cool.

Why not make everyone a priest!

*insert Syndrome jpg here*

 

[phizzco]

Ima priest!