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AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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3 hours ago, ChaosLord said:

It's a shame too because the model is fantastic. Would you feel better about using him if he were 140 points and not 160?

What I don't like about him is that he is unreliable in his attacks and his command is probably the weakest of the faction in tie with the mighty lord. It is very restrictive and command points usages are crowded. 

The good part is that he is tanky for a hero, but not as much as you might think. He still dies to anything that kills your priests. He is rightly priced for what he brings. I guess I wanted an akhelian king.

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2 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

It's a copy pasted wording from the "mws on hit" abilities.

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I figured the error is one of the two things: Copypaste as you indicate, or at the top of the rule where it says it works on the wound roll when it may be that it's the hit roll.

Do you have a reference to a GW response that says it's the former? I think we can all have our feeling on what is the correct way to go, but I'd like to be able to play it correctly.

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1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

I really hate those random Damage values. It really often turns a good run into nothing. Kind of makes some of the our heroes redundant, because they are unreliable.

I disagree. I think random damage makes the make more interesting and fun. Like you aren't going to whack a sword with the same power every blow, it makes sense that variation should exist. Also just because characters deal random damage doesn't make them unreliable. You just shouldn't bet everything on getting a 6. D6 damage is on average 4 and D3 is on average 2. Just treat them like other characters and you won't be overly disappointed. 

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2 hours ago, PivotalCar said:

I disagree. I think random damage makes the make more interesting and fun. Like you aren't going to whack a sword with the same power every blow, it makes sense that variation should exist. Also just because characters deal random damage doesn't make them unreliable. You just shouldn't bet everything on getting a 6. D6 damage is on average 4 and D3 is on average 2. Just treat them like other characters and you won't be overly disappointed. 

D6 on average is 3.5 not 4 :) 

Battlefury is correct random damage values are bad for anything close to competitive play especially d6 which is way too swingy. The fact that two wounds can be 2 or 12 damage is a lot of variation when you already have variations from the hit and wound rolls. 

Also as we know within randomization theres grouping of results so looking at the average only helps to a certain degree. 

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11 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Reapers of Vengeance CP ability. With mongers it will be 60 in fact.

Paying CP for a small unit of letters may seem too much, but 20 letter attacks is a good trade for 1 CP in my book.

Interesting to note. An attack buff to your Bloodletters effectively gets doubled with a Reapers. I still prefer Bloodcrushers and flesh Hounds, but i do think Bloodletters might still have a place... but they’re still too expensive right now imo

10 hours ago, kozokus said:

What I don't like about him is that he is unreliable in his attacks and his command is probably the weakest of the faction in tie with the mighty lord. It is very restrictive and command points usages are crowded. 

The good part is that he is tanky for a hero, but not as much as you might think. He still dies to anything that kills your priests. He is rightly priced for what he brings. I guess I wanted an akhelian king.

This is unfortunately true. It’s sad that our Lords of Khorne are laughably bad in the damage department. It’s kinda annoying that a Loonboss has the same damage with his little pointy Bitz as a lord of khorne’s AXE of KHORNE. 

However, I think it’s arguable that to make our Lords of Khorne competitive, we should focus on their strengths (admittedly not much). I think the Juggerlord has a solid damage output because of his axe’s ability, and his charge MWs. Added together, it allows him to do pretty good damage, further boosted by our aura attack buffs (safe to say that we would never target a lord of Khorne with our buffs).  And there’s still the Gorecleaver combo, and if we really wanted to, there’s still Hew The foe in Goretide which would let him do a LOT of damage. And the Jugger is actually decent. It’s true his command ability is meh, especially in goretide, but for Skullfiend tribe or no Slaughterhost, it’s not too bad. 

Of course, the Mighty Lord is interesting. His damage output is frankly, REALLY BAD. But I find that the extra unbind is really useful, especially when I bring one Slaughterpriest. His Command  ability is bad, but I do think we can still make use of it. It’s theoretically a saving for our command points if we can get more than one re-roll out of it. 

Furthermore, I think his Reality splitting axe is actually good. What I like is  the insta kill ability. It’s not guaranteed, but it’s a risk. Our 140 point model can possibly trade himself for more expensive models. Granted, it may not work, but your opponent might just get spooked away. In some games, I’ve seen my opponent be unwilling to commit his big guys (Verminlord warbringers, Bloodthirsters, etc.) because the mighty Lord was closeby. Giving the mighty lord a thermalrider Cloak, or even Unrivaled Battle lust increases his threat, so that invisible zoning power strikes me as something we could use. Is it competitive? Hardly. But is it usable? Possibly. Besides, I’ve managed to reality split Morathi, and that’s a very useful tool to have in our arsenal. 

So our Juggerlord is a decently durable beatstick (he still needs at least an artifact/command trait), our mighty lord feels like a support and zoning tool, where does that leave Korghos?

I, for one, believe Korghos Khul is actually viable. He’s expensive, but he turns up the zoning potential to eleven, has good damage (His Hound actually has rend, and he’s got free re rolls to hit).

Its true that their support power is not as good as, say, a Slaughterpriest (it’s not even close), their DPS is not as good as a Bloodthirster, and their durability is decidedly meh. So I think we have to focus on other aspects that our Lords of Khorne can excel in. I’m still testing our Lords of Khorne, but I’m determined to get a use out of them. 

1 minute ago, Reuben Parker said:

D6 on average is 3.5 not 4 :) 

Battlefury is correct random damage values are bad for anything close to competitive play especially d6 which is way too swingy. The fact that two wounds can be 2 or 12 damage is a lot of variation when you already have variations from the hit and wound rolls. 

Also as we know within randomization theres grouping of results so looking at the average only helps to a certain degree. 

Yep, pretty much this. Heck, why not give a Lord of Khorne the stay of a grimwrath berserker’s axe? It’s a lot more reliable. 

Even our Bloodthirsters strike me as random. Last time, Wrath of Khorne could use Immense Power+Deathdealer to have a very reliably high damage output. But now, they can’t do that. 

Wrath of Khorne has guns to supplement his damage. Plus unbinds make him really nice utility. I feel he needs a list built around him, such as good targets for the command ability, and Blood Hunt battalion. 

Unfettered Fury imo has the lowest DPS, because his whip is a bit random. But his command and no retreat ability is his biggest strength. He needs a mostly Khorne daemon list to work with him.

Insensate rage is super swingy, but I like his high damage potential. When he spikes, it’s horrifying. Plus, he’s the cheapest. And throwing him deep in enemy lines, letting him die in a blaze of glory is a great (and funny) way to utterly mess with your opponents plans. Easiest to plug into a list, imo, since he’s a huge distraction carnifex that WILL do something if your opponent doesn’t try to stop him. 

 

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I'm building my second set of Skullreapers at the moment and been looking at the Slaughterborn Battalion. Reducing rend by 1 on Blood Warriors and Skullreapers sounds pretty nice.

This is the list I come up with so far. I'm mostly split on the Slaughterhost right now, maybe I should be going Goretide for better movement. But going +2 attacks on both Skullgrinder and Exalted Deathbringer will bring a surpricing amount of punch many might not see coming (7 x 3+, 2+ -1, 3 / 9 x 4+, 3+, -1, 2). While 3 Slaughterpriest will hopefully make a deathzone around the Skull Altar.

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Skullfiend Tribe

Leaders
Skullgrinder (80)
- General
- Trait: Master Decapitator 
- Artefact: Crowncleaver 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Resanguination
Exalted Deathbringer (80)
- Ruinous Axe & Skullgouger
- Artefact: Mark of the Destroyer 

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Slaughterborn (180)

Endless Spells
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

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I already have 4 Bloodthirsters but thinking of buying more as UF plus 3 IR playing under to have extra CP in reapers is something I think maybe one of the better builds. Even with zero buffs using the 6” pile in shenanigans it can be 30 IR attacks where the thirsters can’t be hit. 

With proper setup and screens I see it beating a lot of armies. My main issue with the Bloodthirster builds though is I think they’re a bit of a matchup coin flip as Morathi or shooting armies really give them a lot of issues. Where as vs a lot of melee armies the build will really dominate. 

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28 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Furthermore, I think his Reality splitting axe is actually good. What I like is  the insta kill ability. It’s not guaranteed, but it’s a risk. Our 140 point model can possibly trade himself for more expensive models. Granted, it may not work, but your opponent might just get spooked away. In some games, I’ve seen my opponent be unwilling to commit his big guys (Verminlord warbringers, Bloodthirsters, etc.) because the mighty Lord was closeby. Giving the mighty lord a thermalrider Cloak, or even Unrivaled Battle lust increases his threat, so that invisible zoning power strikes me as something we could use. Is it competitive? Hardly. But is it usable? Possibly. Besides, I’ve managed to reality split Morathi, and that’s a very useful tool to have in our arsenal. 

They should have given the Juggerlord the Reality Splitting Axe. I'd be happy with him at 160 then. I'll probably still buy the model because it's just so good.

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Just yesterday I was discussing with a fellow players, wich mortal heroes he & I consider to be the best and maybe most valuable.

The conclusion was pretty easy:

Valkya
Skullgrinder
Exalted DB
Slaughterpriest
Bloodstoker
Bloodsecrator

We came to that conclusion, because their output is mostly reliable and they are pretty versatile, when it comes to list building.
So we would have a fairly good amount of usable heroes / leaders to some degree. The thing is, we can only have 6 of them in a list.

The most valuable units are absolutely:

Skullreapers
Blood Warriors, but really just because of their chaffing potential
Flesh Hounds, maybe the best Battleline we got atm
Wrathmongers to a certain degree, but really more as support, they're not really main fighters anymore imo
Skullcrushers

Considering the judgements, the Axe itself seems to be the real only dealbringer.
Therefore the Altar is an auto include, of course.

In generell it seems, as we concider the choices of heroes and units, that would be benefitial imo, we got to build focused armies again. So we can not be that versatile like SCE, or other armies.
The lists are 100% gonna be "one hit wonders" again. If the enemy knows, what's gonna happen, that's it.

At the moment I am trying to build a list around those heroes. Gonna post it as soon, as I have an idea :)

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What about a blood hunt at 1500? 

It's not the greatest battalion of all time by any means, but more than it seems fun fluffy & fast.

I was thinking:

Skullreapers blood hunt:

WoK thirster, general, gryph feather charm. 320

Karanak 140

6 bloodcrushers 280

2x5 flesh hounds 200

2x5 wrathmongers/ wrathmongers+ secrator 280

Slaughterpriest with wrathaxe and bronzed flesh for the thirster.

 

That puts out lots of MWs, whil not being the best it looks fun. Just a thought I had during revision had to get it on paper lol.

 

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6 hours ago, Battlefury said:


Wrathmongers to a certain degree, but really more as support, they're not really main fighters anymore imo
 

How ? They kept the same damage output as before while going down 40 pts and doing aoe MW when they die.  And no one would have dare before to say they weren't main fighters.

They outlive and outdamage pretty much every other unit of their cost (they hit nearly as hard as brutes/paladins/blightkings), while being easy to use (2" range) and having an incredible support role in addition of this (and not in replacement)

I mean, for 5 wrathmongers, you can get 10 stormvermin, namaarti thralls or grimghast. None of them have the resilience and damage output of the wrathmongers, and bring nothing to the table for the rest of the army.

Edited by ledha
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Alright battlereport time. Only got one in, but it was against slaanesh again. I walked into this expecting to get enthralled and destroyed, (but I was fine with that,)so that may explain my more reckless behavior. Or that I had 20 skullreapers that were going to ruin someone's day. Take your pick. 

Scenario: Duality off Death (2 objectives, only heroes score if within 3")

The armies: 

Spoiler

 

1980pts Khorne: Skull Fiends - 5 drops

- Slaughterborn battalion

exalted deathbringer + spear + mark of the destroyer(+2 attacks)

2X5 skullreapers

10 skullreapers

3X5 bloodwarriors - fists

- Bloodthirster of insensate rage  + general + crowncleaver(+2 attacks)

- Bloodsecrator

-2X5 wrathmongers

 

????pts Slaanesh: Pretenders - 4 drops

-Keeper of Secrets + general( +d3 damage, reroll attacks(but he never used it, so I might misremember that) + +2 attack artifact

- Keeper of secrets + heal d3 wounds in the hero phase artifact

- Epitome of slaanesh (twins + mirror hero)

- That mirror endless spell

-Daemonette Battalion ( I might be misremembering their #s here, but this matched up best with what I remember)

30 daemonettes

40 daemonettes

40 daaemonettes

 

Terrain: A very large church (impassable/have to climb) occupied the center of the board with a forest in the center of my board and a hill on his center.  Two towers sat on either edge of the board, limiting our space.  Further hemming us in was rocks and various ensundry trees sitting by the corners of the church. The overall result was that it felt like two separate arenas to fight over the 2 objectives, while the church made a larger arena that encompassed the others. The objectives were on the middle line about 4-5 inches away from the church sides.

Khorne Deployment: Left blood warriors in front, bloodsecrator next to them on the line. Skull reapers in the second rank and mongers in the 3rd. Center :  Bloodthirster awkwardly seeing if he needed to go and grab either objective ( a certain death sentence with his base size) Right : 2 blood warriors shielding their kin in front with the exalted (the heroes on both sides sat closer to center). The big block of skullreapers huddled around the hero close to the warriors, the smaller unit grabbed the furthest right side behind the other warriors. Mongers sat behind the lot of them. The altar was choking up my right hand deployment zone further.

Slaanesh deployment: Center Scenery on the hill looking thematic. General sat behind it waiting to see what happened. 30 block sat in front. Left: 40 block on the line, 2nd keeper lurking behind them. Right Other 40 block on the line with the epitome waiting behind near the center.

The Battle: My opponent chose for me to go first. Not overly caring about the dangers, I moved my formations up onto the objectives, using a CP to get the secrator barely onto the zone. Both heroes were close enough to their "castles" that if they got charged the hammers could avenge them. The thirster edged up to the church and glowered at the enemy icons (both of them!). Slaanesh turn and he cast the mirror in front and did 1 mortal wound on the deathbringer. Movement phase and everything ran forwards. The smallest blob hugged the church while the other two got up into my face(heroes close behind). A CP was used to allow the daemonettes to get out of the left keeper's way and  still charge in. General moved in front of the icon on the hill and watched its minions cavort. Right hand daemonettes roll a double 1 and fail the charge. He decides that the other side is more important and lets it lie. The left daemonettes get an 11 on their charge and set up a lovely runway for the keeper to come in and murder the secrator. The keeper needs a 7 to get in. He gets a 5 on the first roll and then gets a 3 on the 2nd. Oof. That was a devastating blow. Enraged the nettes pile as many as they can against the secrator but only manage 3 wound onto him and kill 4 of the 5 warriors, losing 2 to punchies. The last one attacks with the secrator and kill 5. Fully buffed and bloodthirsty the 5 skullreapers pile in and do just enough wounds to completely wipe out the daemonettes. Battleshock finishes the last blood warrior.

Turn 2 and I win the roll off. The mirror  to block my movements  and does absolutely nothing (oof) to the deathbringer. Secrator hangs back while the rest of the left flank throw themselves at the keeper while the thirster moves in to both protect the secrator and tie down the central block of daemonettes (hopefully murder them too).  The right is already about 6" away  so they shuffle forward. Smart move would have been to retreat the exalted, but I wanted to see him in action, so the entire right flank charges (except the mongers who physically could not make it in).Skullreapers get enthralled and everyone but 1 blood warrior unit and the deathbringer get tranced by the mirror (his dice finally were helping him). I went with the mongers against the keeper and did 7-8 wounds. The right hand daemonettes went next and killed 5 skullreaper between the 2 units and took 5 mortals for their trouble. 1 blood warrior took a wound and did a mortal back.  Next I went with the thirster who did 10 wounds to the center blob (no explosions) and then his keeper attacked whiffing at everything. Long story short the right hand blob gets annihilated (2 left) and the exalted gets attacked for 3 wounds from the epitome who is killed by him and a lone skullreaper (his name was forge). The skullreapers then finish the lone keeper on the left and the center blob does 1 wound to the thirster. 3 nettes are lost to battleshock. Slaanesh turn and the general stabs itself and then tries to heal but fails. He then casts arcane shield on himself before coming to reclaim the left flank. 2 heralds are summoned and 1 charges in with the general. The reapers are enraptured again and the wrathmongers get it from the herald. The general then kills the reapers and takes 8 mortal wounds in exchange (That was brutal). The thirster went next and killed another 10 with no explosions and would later suffer 3 wounds from the survivors. The general then piled in again with their command ability but only killed 3 wrathmongers (1 of whom was in range to do a mortal wound) they piled in and brought the wound count up to 12. The keeper then healed 3 wounds from the hand. 2 daemonettes fled from battleshock in center and the remaining right melted. 

I won the roll off for turn 3 and we decided to call it. Damn. That was a rough match for my opponent. He had a couple of chances to turn it around but the dice were rarely on his side. Those failed charges were devastating for him. I honestly felt bad at how one sided it was. (that feels like bragging, but I do mean it) He is rather upset at the accusations of his army being op at the club. I think that not enough of them have fought it yet for a calling. My initial feeling is that if you play careful and don't stumble into the locus, you can very easily murder them. We talked about trying to play to his strength in speed. His biggest mistake (for this scenario) was having me go first I feel. It let me se the field of engagement and start scoring, Putting pressure on him to act.

Thoughts: Skullreapers are still terrifying. Wrathmongers seem to be my anti keeper unit (like the Spanish inquisition!). No spell defense feels like running around with a target on your back. Despite 18 attacks, the thirster didn't explode at all. Still did well enough though. Not sure if worth. With all the support heroes running around the skull fiends ability felt like all my units had a natural re-roll 1. Remember that the thirster can run and charge, could be helpful. Blood warriors did alright as meatshields, still not my favorite for the job, but usable. Exalted still feels not very threatening, but the spear could be very useful against stormcast and nighthaunt types.

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 3:32 AM, Battlefury said:

What Chaff units do you usually use?

I have to precede this with a disclaimer: I fairly frequently fight 18 tzangor enlightened, so I need my chaff to stop 16 -19'' base move mobility. That usually means a larger surface area to catch them in the nets. So when I set up chaff I want them to stop anything and ideally die in the process. Blood tithe and now the 2nd rank hammer gets to crush the newly arrived enemy. No getting locked down by my chaff wall if I can help it.  For those who don't know about enlightened, I've had 2 of them wipe out a 5 man unit of skullreapers (the survivors of the reapers' charge). So I don't want any of them touching my hammers. To that end I've got 3 go to units as chaff. 3: The hardy gors. While I wouldn't use ally points on them, the gors from brass despoilers battalion aren't a bad choice if you're bringing it anyways. 4+ in close combat, a low bravery, and the ability to run and charge lets you put them wherever you need them and they might actually survive a turn or two (also possibly a downside). Their expense and needing the battalion (also an upside) keep them lower on the list. 2: Ungors.  Garbage save, lower bravery, and that nifty run and charge puts these guys in good stead. They're cheap too, but their 25mm bases and the inability to reduce their drops for us keep them out of the top spot. 1: The ubiquitous bloodreavers. No real armor, fairly low bravery and on 32mm bases. They are slightly faster then my hammers and have that +1 to run/charge letting them keep in or out of the way of whomever you want. Plus in a pinch you can turn them into a mini hammer. 4 -1 rend attacks go! With goretide they get boosted into the ideal platform with that speedy run and charge to tie up the enemy or a tasty blood tithe point. Their only real downsides for me are that they aren't a part of any of the battalions I want to use typically and they're a touch expensive. Not enough that I recommend they lower in points, but...

Honourable mentions: Fleshhounds : faster, hurtier, and have nice cavalry bases to get maximum blockage out of them. A bit expensive, and I don't have many of them. Chaos hounds: Really fast, garbage save, and a bravery to match. The problem is that they are allies and can never use any of your abilities. They're also higher on points than I like for chaff ( and almost too squishy, 1 goes and potentially 3 more flee).  Skullcrushers: fastish, tanky, massive bases. Put them where you want and watch the enemy bounce off. Unfortunately that applies to your guys too. Those bases are massive as well as the unit costing as much as a good hammer.

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5 hours ago, Battlefury said:

Just yesterday I was discussing with a fellow players, wich mortal heroes he & I consider to be the best and maybe most valuable.

The conclusion was pretty easy:

Valkya
Skullgrinder
Exalted DB
Slaughterpriest
Bloodstoker
Bloodsecrator

We came to that conclusion, because their output is mostly reliable and they are pretty versatile, when it comes to list building.
So we would have a fairly good amount of usable heroes / leaders to some degree. The thing is, we can only have 6 of them in a list.

The most valuable units are absolutely:

Skullreapers
Blood Warriors, but really just because of their chaffing potential
Flesh Hounds, maybe the best Battleline we got atm
Wrathmongers to a certain degree, but really more as support, they're not really main fighters anymore imo
Skullcrushers

Considering the judgements, the Axe itself seems to be the real only dealbringer.
Therefore the Altar is an auto include, of course.

In generell it seems, as we concider the choices of heroes and units, that would be benefitial imo, we got to build focused armies again. So we can not be that versatile like SCE, or other armies.
The lists are 100% gonna be "one hit wonders" again. If the enemy knows, what's gonna happen, that's it.

At the moment I am trying to build a list around those heroes. Gonna post it as soon, as I have an idea :)

Thanks for the write up, although I don’t really feel valkia and the Skullgrinder. Generally I prefer exalted Deathbringer to Skullgrinder, as exalted fits better into lists, and tends to have a larger impact with his command ability. In fact, I prefer aspiring DB to grinder, because he’s a cheap force multiplier. Of course, I do agree the Skullgrinder is great, especially with his buffed attack count. Just feel that aspiring Deathbringer should be on that list. 

Valkia... I have 0 clue. Haven’t really played her. I suppose she’s ok for her command ability, but her DPS is imo quite swingy. Like you said, on the charge, 6 D3 damage attacks is extremely random. Her command ability is possibly (but situationally) useful considering there’s a lot of flying units in the game. And her re-roll battleshock is meh, because if you’re taking battleshock, you’re likely gonna lose too many models for the re-roll to help, and the extra fleeing models does NOT help. 

Agree on reapers, it’s funny how a long while ago in this thread, people while saying that reapers were complete trash, and were looking into Bullgors for hammer units. 

Blood Warriors are imo a lot better now. I love No Respite, and I think that while Flesh Hounds are easily best battleline, Blood Warriors are solid competition. Difference is, blood Warriors can ward off alpha strikes, while being  more durable. It boils down to your list. Reavers are the tax, Hounds are best in daemonic rush lists, Warriors are best in mortal meat mountain lists. 

I think Wrathmongers deserve a BIT more credit though. They’re amazing. I checked out the rules, and interestingly, even if u kill them with magic or shooting, bloodfury activates so long as someone is within range. Useful. But more importantly, a mongers are good because a)Support is great thanks to range and buff and b)unlike similar support units, they don’t hit like wet noodles, those spaghetti flails are nasty stuff. Moreso with a few buffs, Bloodstoker, Korghos or Bloodsecrator come to mind. Of course, mongers like to charge for that +1 to hit (increases damage quite a lot).  

I agree on Skullcrushers wholeheartedly. Also take note, Bloodcrushers and Skullcrushers leader technically add 1 to mount’s attacks too. I think that’s how it’s worded. And in one of the battle reports earlier, Skullcrushers battleline strikes me as very interesting. Yes, the Juggerlord is a tax. But you get a 3+ save battleline (!) that has better damage than your warriors/reavers, while being less dependent on buffs. 

As far as judgements go, it’s true that at least 1 Slaughterpriest is a must. I do believe that all the judgements have their place, however, I agree with Teh sentiments that skulls can be  situational. Most of the time, they’re fine. But they are random in effectiveness. Between Icon and Axe, I actually find myself better able to fit the icon, and it does work. Of course, if possible, I try to fit the axe instead whenever I can. The axe is still amazingly good. 

I do disagree about list-building though. After reading this thread enough, I’ve noticed that there’s a lot of versatility in list building. And it’s FAR BETTER than last time. Last time, it was, “Gore Pilgrims WoK 90 Bloodletters stoker then BAM”. Literally every time. Now? Bloodthirsters of Unfettered Fury are being used competitively, we see 3-4 Bloodthirster lists, we actually see Daemon lists that have very little mortals, and on that note, we can see 100% MORTALS LISTS. Exalted deathbringers and Skullgrinder are actually being used now, like you mentioned, and they’re ACTUALLY good. In fact, as far as Battalions go, Mortal diversity is actually good. In terms of slaughterhosts, we see Goretide with lots of dudes, or Skullfiend tribe featuring lots of Khorgies. I believe we have a LOT of versatility now. Sure, eventually we might get forced to play a few specific builds, but I think it’s far better than it was before. 

And one thing to note: Our Blood tithe table is an incredible tool. Back when I was Khorne Daemonkin In 40k, I used it to react to my enemies moves. This age of Sigmar table? Is far better. We can do things that are completely unexpected. Oh, you wanna age my Bloodthirster to death? Nope you can’t do that. Oh, your massive blobs of dudes survived 2 rounds of attacks from my hammer unit? Here have another. Oh, I’m a little far away from kissing distance from that juicy enemy unit? Murderlust! I really like the fact that the rewards of the Blood tithe table are fun, useful and strong. They give us tactical flexibility. If you want a one hit wonder, i’ll Give you one.

gristlegore, terrorgheists with Ghoul King riders, all Gruesome Bite mount trait, 10 ghoul units to fill battleline and grab objectives. Charge, spam feeding frenzy, kill as much as possible. If your opponent knows what you’re  gonna bring, you’re dead because you can be tailored against. And tactical flexibility is NOT something flesh eaters get. 

Just food for thought. 

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1 hour ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Alright battlereport time. Only got one in, but it was against slaanesh again. I walked into this expecting to get enthralled and destroyed, (but I was fine with that,)so that may explain my more reckless behavior. Or that I had 20 skullreapers that were going to ruin someone's day. Take your pick. 

Scenario: Duality off Death (2 objectives, only heroes score if within 3")

The armies: 

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1980pts Khorne: Skull Fiends - 5 drops

- Slaughterborn battalion

exalted deathbringer + spear + mark of the destroyer(+2 attacks)

2X5 skullreapers

10 skullreapers

3X5 bloodwarriors - fists

- Bloodthirster of insensate rage  + general + crowncleaver(+2 attacks)

- Bloodsecrator

-2X5 wrathmongers

 

????pts Slaanesh: Pretenders - 4 drops

-Keeper of Secrets + general( +d3 damage, reroll attacks(but he never used it, so I might misremember that) + +2 attack artifact

- Keeper of secrets + heal d3 wounds in the hero phase artifact

- Epitome of slaanesh (twins + mirror hero)

- That mirror endless spell

-Daemonette Battalion ( I might be misremembering their #s here, but this matched up best with what I remember)

30 daemonettes

40 daemonettes

40 daaemonettes

 

Terrain: A very large church (impassable/have to climb) occupied the center of the board with a forest in the center of my board and a hill on his center.  Two towers sat on either edge of the board, limiting our space.  Further hemming us in was rocks and various ensundry trees sitting by the corners of the church. The overall result was that it felt like two separate arenas to fight over the 2 objectives, while the church made a larger arena that encompassed the others. The objectives were on the middle line about 4-5 inches away from the church sides.

Khorne Deployment: Left blood warriors in front, bloodsecrator next to them on the line. Skull reapers in the second rank and mongers in the 3rd. Center :  Bloodthirster awkwardly seeing if he needed to go and grab either objective ( a certain death sentence with his base size) Right : 2 blood warriors shielding their kin in front with the exalted (the heroes on both sides sat closer to center). The big block of skullreapers huddled around the hero close to the warriors, the smaller unit grabbed the furthest right side behind the other warriors. Mongers sat behind the lot of them. The altar was choking up my right hand deployment zone further.

Slaanesh deployment: Center Scenery on the hill looking thematic. General sat behind it waiting to see what happened. 30 block sat in front. Left: 40 block on the line, 2nd keeper lurking behind them. Right Other 40 block on the line with the epitome waiting behind near the center.

The Battle: My opponent chose for me to go first. Not overly caring about the dangers, I moved my formations up onto the objectives, using a CP to get the secrator barely onto the zone. Both heroes were close enough to their "castles" that if they got charged the hammers could avenge them. The thirster edged up to the church and glowered at the enemy icons (both of them!). Slaanesh turn and he cast the mirror in front and did 1 mortal wound on the deathbringer. Movement phase and everything ran forwards. The smallest blob hugged the church while the other two got up into my face(heroes close behind). A CP was used to allow the daemonettes to get out of the left keeper's way and  still charge in. General moved in front of the icon on the hill and watched its minions cavort. Right hand daemonettes roll a double 1 and fail the charge. He decides that the other side is more important and lets it lie. The left daemonettes get an 11 on their charge and set up a lovely runway for the keeper to come in and murder the secrator. The keeper needs a 7 to get in. He gets a 5 on the first roll and then gets a 3 on the 2nd. Oof. That was a devastating blow. Enraged the nettes pile as many as they can against the secrator but only manage 3 wound onto him and kill 4 of the 5 warriors, losing 2 to punchies. The last one attacks with the secrator and kill 5. Fully buffed and bloodthirsty the 5 skullreapers pile in and do just enough wounds to completely wipe out the daemonettes. Battleshock finishes the last blood warrior.

Turn 2 and I win the roll off. The mirror  to block my movements  and does absolutely nothing (oof) to the deathbringer. Secrator hangs back while the rest of the left flank throw themselves at the keeper while the thirster moves in to both protect the secrator and tie down the central block of daemonettes (hopefully murder them too).  The right is already about 6" away  so they shuffle forward. Smart move would have been to retreat the exalted, but I wanted to see him in action, so the entire right flank charges (except the mongers who physically could not make it in).Skullreapers get enthralled and everyone but 1 blood warrior unit and the deathbringer get tranced by the mirror (his dice finally were helping him). I went with the mongers against the keeper and did 7-8 wounds. The right hand daemonettes went next and killed 5 skullreaper between the 2 units and took 5 mortals for their trouble. 1 blood warrior took a wound and did a mortal back.  Next I went with the thirster who did 10 wounds to the center blob (no explosions) and then his keeper attacked whiffing at everything. Long story short the right hand blob gets annihilated (2 left) and the exalted gets attacked for 3 wounds from the epitome who is killed by him and a lone skullreaper (his name was forge). The skullreapers then finish the lone keeper on the left and the center blob does 1 wound to the thirster. 3 nettes are lost to battleshock. Slaanesh turn and the general stabs itself and then tries to heal but fails. He then casts arcane shield on himself before coming to reclaim the left flank. 2 heralds are summoned and 1 charges in with the general. The reapers are enraptured again and the wrathmongers get it from the herald. The general then kills the reapers and takes 8 mortal wounds in exchange (That was brutal). The thirster went next and killed another 10 with no explosions and would later suffer 3 wounds from the survivors. The general then piled in again with their command ability but only killed 3 wrathmongers (1 of whom was in range to do a mortal wound) they piled in and brought the wound count up to 12. The keeper then healed 3 wounds from the hand. 2 daemonettes fled from battleshock in center and the remaining right melted. 

I won the roll off for turn 3 and we decided to call it. Damn. That was a rough match for my opponent. He had a couple of chances to turn it around but the dice were rarely on his side. Those failed charges were devastating for him. I honestly felt bad at how one sided it was. (that feels like bragging, but I do mean it) He is rather upset at the accusations of his army being op at the club. I think that not enough of them have fought it yet for a calling. My initial feeling is that if you play careful and don't stumble into the locus, you can very easily murder them. We talked about trying to play to his strength in speed. His biggest mistake (for this scenario) was having me go first I feel. It let me se the field of engagement and start scoring, Putting pressure on him to act.

Thoughts: Skullreapers are still terrifying. Wrathmongers seem to be my anti keeper unit (like the Spanish inquisition!). No spell defense feels like running around with a target on your back. Despite 18 attacks, the thirster didn't explode at all. Still did well enough though. Not sure if worth. With all the support heroes running around the skull fiends ability felt like all my units had a natural re-roll 1. Remember that the thirster can run and charge, could be helpful. Blood warriors did alright as meatshields, still not my favorite for the job, but usable. Exalted still feels not very threatening, but the spear could be very useful against stormcast and nighthaunt types.

I have to precede this with a disclaimer: I fairly frequently fight 18 tzangor enlightened, so I need my chaff to stop 16 -19'' base move mobility. That usually means a larger surface area to catch them in the nets. So when I set up chaff I want them to stop anything and ideally die in the process. Blood tithe and now the 2nd rank hammer gets to crush the newly arrived enemy. No getting locked down by my chaff wall if I can help it.  For those who don't know about enlightened, I've had 2 of them wipe out a 5 man unit of skullreapers (the survivors of the reapers' charge). So I don't want any of them touching my hammers. To that end I've got 3 go to units as chaff. 3: The hardy gors. While I wouldn't use ally points on them, the gors from brass despoilers battalion aren't a bad choice if you're bringing it anyways. 4+ in close combat, a low bravery, and the ability to run and charge lets you put them wherever you need them and they might actually survive a turn or two (also possibly a downside). Their expense and needing the battalion (also an upside) keep them lower on the list. 2: Ungors.  Garbage save, lower bravery, and that nifty run and charge puts these guys in good stead. They're cheap too, but their 25mm bases and the inability to reduce their drops for us keep them out of the top spot. 1: The ubiquitous bloodreavers. No real armor, fairly low bravery and on 32mm bases. They are slightly faster then my hammers and have that +1 to run/charge letting them keep in or out of the way of whomever you want. Plus in a pinch you can turn them into a mini hammer. 4 -1 rend attacks go! With goretide they get boosted into the ideal platform with that speedy run and charge to tie up the enemy or a tasty blood tithe point. Their only real downsides for me are that they aren't a part of any of the battalions I want to use typically and they're a touch expensive. Not enough that I recommend they lower in points, but...

Honourable mentions: Fleshhounds : faster, hurtier, and have nice cavalry bases to get maximum blockage out of them. A bit expensive, and I don't have many of them. Chaos hounds: Really fast, garbage save, and a bravery to match. The problem is that they are allies and can never use any of your abilities. They're also higher on points than I like for chaff ( and almost too squishy, 1 goes and potentially 3 more flee).  Skullcrushers: fastish, tanky, massive bases. Put them where you want and watch the enemy bounce off. Unfortunately that applies to your guys too. Those bases are massive as well as the unit costing as much as a good hammer.

Dang! Thanks for the report! Yeah, after spending time reading the Slaanesh battletome (My mind is officially scarred), I do agree that rhey’re not that bad. In fact, they require very careful play in terms of aiming the Locus at the right target, especially because their army is in reality super fragile. 

Very interesting that you didn’t use the Khorgoraths though. Do you feel Skullfiend Tribe was a little unnecessary? 

In terms of Bloodthirsters, I feel that the Insensate Rage needs some way of buffing his hit rolls to better fish for sixes. Compared to buffing attacks, I’d admittedly prefer buffs to hit rolls, specifically, I like Killing Frenzy, Slaughterborn, or Ghyrstrike. Hitting on 3+, rerolling ones, or hitting on 4s, re-rolling everything imo is very nice. It’s true that throwing enough poop at the wall would eventually get it to stick. But personally, I focus on aiming said poop at the wall :) 

i’m still dumbfounded about the Insensate rage’s buff on the charge... especially after reading designers commentary. And admittedly, his command ability is very meh. 

However, I’m interested to know: how do you run and charge with him? 

Good point on Gors and Bloodreavers. And I agree about Enlightened. I’ve seen far too many enlightened leaders on discs punch WAY above their weight class. But they are super overkill on 10-man Reaver units, which is nice. 

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10 hours ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

I'm building my second set of Skullreapers at the moment and been looking at the Slaughterborn Battalion. Reducing rend by 1 on Blood Warriors and Skullreapers sounds pretty nice.

This is the list I come up with so far. I'm mostly split on the Slaughterhost right now, maybe I should be going Goretide for better movement. But going +2 attacks on both Skullgrinder and Exalted Deathbringer will bring a surpricing amount of punch many might not see coming (7 x 3+, 2+ -1, 3 / 9 x 4+, 3+, -1, 2). While 3 Slaughterpriest will hopefully make a deathzone around the Skull Altar.

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Skullfiend Tribe

Leaders
Skullgrinder (80)
- General
- Trait: Master Decapitator 
- Artefact: Crowncleaver 
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Resanguination
Exalted Deathbringer (80)
- Ruinous Axe & Skullgouger
- Artefact: Mark of the Destroyer 

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Slaughterborn (180)

Endless Spells
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
Wrath-Axe (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143

Between the Slaughterhost, think it this way. Do you want something more beneficial for the entire army as a whole, or something more beneficial for a your single heroes? 

My problem with using a Skullgrinder AND an exalted Deathbringer then giving them damage artifacts is that they are squishy. Straight out. And while yes, they do a LOT, there’s still that chance to whiff. I really found myself preferring to rely on my non-hero stuff like warriors or reapers to deal damage, because they have a lot more force multiplying potential. 

Another thing to note, is speed. A Bloodthirster is fine to focus on damage because he has the speed to go after the right target. But Skullgrinder and exalted DB are slow. I find them best used as countercharge units to either deter charges, or punish an over-aggressive enemy. 

I understand Exalted DB is a must for Slaughterborn, though I’d personally trade the grinder for a stoker. Still up to you though, I can see the value of a grinder. I’d however focus on either artifacts that boost his durability, or a support artifact like Talisman. 

You don’t really need the extra CP. it’s very nice, but Khorne isn’t very Command point hungry, unlike armies like Gloomspite. While armies like the Gitz do NOT want their boys running off the table, we don’t mind as much due to MSUs and Blood Tithe. 

For Slaughterpriests, I do feel 3 is a little too many. 

If you removed 1 CP, 1 Slaughterpriest, you get 160 points, and can get 1 Bloodsecrator who imo, would contribute quite a lot as a force multiplier. And if you do run Goretide, pick the Bloodsecrator as general and give him the torc. He’s quite durable, and the command trait is very nice on him. 

Also, why Resanguination on a Priest? Your heroes are too squishy to survive, so the Heal might not make a difference. I’d recommend Blood sacrifice. The ability to, at the start of the battle round, instantly get Blood tithe is amazing. I seriously hope this doesn’t get FAQed (like the skull Cannon... .___.)

Just some advice from a fellow skull Collecting maniac! Don’t want you to suffer disappointments in your games. 

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49 minutes ago, Kaz said:

gristlegore, terrorgheists with Ghoul King riders, all Gruesome Bite mount trait, 10 ghoul units to fill battleline and grab objectives. Charge, spam feeding frenzy, kill as much as possible. If your opponent knows what you’re  gonna bring, you’re dead because you can be tailored against. And tactical flexibility is NOT something flesh eaters get. 

In what way can you counter it? I have no experience
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4 minutes ago, ChaosLord said:

Why doesn't anyone use Skarbrand?

Finished painting him a few weeks ago and played some games. With Bloodsecrator and giving him a Wrathmonger bodyguard the mortals wounds from Carnage is at least 24 turn 2. Which is great. but he is slow and dies as easy as other Bloodthirsters, so find him either doing great or nothing. 

I been considering doing either Skarbrand or Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage as a hammer in the list I posted above instead of pure mortal.

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57 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Between the Slaughterhost, think it this way. Do you want something more beneficial for the entire army as a whole, or something more beneficial for a your single heroes? 

My problem with using a Skullgrinder AND an exalted Deathbringer then giving them damage artifacts is that they are squishy. Straight out. And while yes, they do a LOT, there’s still that chance to whiff. I really found myself preferring to rely on my non-hero stuff like warriors or reapers to deal damage, because they have a lot more force multiplying potential. 

Another thing to note, is speed. A Bloodthirster is fine to focus on damage because he has the speed to go after the right target. But Skullgrinder and exalted DB are slow. I find them best used as countercharge units to either deter charges, or punish an over-aggressive enemy. 

I understand Exalted DB is a must for Slaughterborn, though I’d personally trade the grinder for a stoker. Still up to you though, I can see the value of a grinder. I’d however focus on either artifacts that boost his durability, or a support artifact like Talisman. 

You don’t really need the extra CP. it’s very nice, but Khorne isn’t very Command point hungry, unlike armies like Gloomspite. While armies like the Gitz do NOT want their boys running off the table, we don’t mind as much due to MSUs and Blood Tithe. 

For Slaughterpriests, I do feel 3 is a little too many. 

If you removed 1 CP, 1 Slaughterpriest, you get 160 points, and can get 1 Bloodsecrator who imo, would contribute quite a lot as a force multiplier. And if you do run Goretide, pick the Bloodsecrator as general and give him the torc. He’s quite durable, and the command trait is very nice on him. 

Also, why Resanguination on a Priest? Your heroes are too squishy to survive, so the Heal might not make a difference. I’d recommend Blood sacrifice. The ability to, at the start of the battle round, instantly get Blood tithe is amazing. I seriously hope this doesn’t get FAQed (like the skull Cannon... .___.)

Just some advice from a fellow skull Collecting maniac! Don’t want you to suffer disappointments in your games. 

I done good damage with Skullgrinder, but yes, I end up depeding on my opponent coming to fight. Never actually done 3 Slaughterpriest, normaly play 2 that do good work. But might be true that I don't get much extra out of the last one, opponent might just keep important stuff away from the Altar.

Already have Bloodsecrator and the extra CP is from battalion.

A real hammer instead of the Skullgrinder might be a good idea, Think I will drop a few things and go Insensate Rate or Skarbrand

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21 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I figured the error is one of the two things: Copypaste as you indicate, or at the top of the rule where it says it works on the wound roll when it may be that it's the hit roll.

Do you have a reference to a GW response that says it's the former? I think we can all have our feeling on what is the correct way to go, but I'd like to be able to play it correctly.

I have no GW response, but RAW it's "on 6s to wound" and the "don't make wound roll" after you made the roll already is nonsense rules-wise, so we have to live with "mws on 6 to wound" until they maybe update faq.

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1 hour ago, Glaidos said:

In what way can you counter it? I have no experience

One sure counter is UF thirster with his CP ability to pile-in from 6". During your turn you position yourself between 3" and 6" from gheist, now it can't fight before you smash it. In Reapers host you can double fight consecutively before the gheist goes.

Second is demon artifact in Bloodlords that makes you fight first and common artifact that makes you fight first on 4+. Again during your turn.

No idea how pure mortals do it. Maybe gheist can't chew through slaughterborn skullreapers well enough.  They have 2 dudes that pile-in from 8", but they are kinda weak to kill a gheist and can't double fight.

Another way is skullcrusher/bloodcrusher charge on mw ability, happens before combat. Will be kinda hard to charge gheist before it charges you though. Priests's pull ability should help.

Edited by Smooth criminal
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1 hour ago, Glaidos said:

In what way can you counter it? I have no experience

Yep, Unfettered Fury For Daemons. Nuff said. Insensate Rage in skullseeker could work. Wrath of Khorne is not bad, his flail hits hard against them. You know what? Just bring a Tyrants of Blood with 3 Bloodthirsters, bring lots of Flesh Hound chaff, and get moving. 

Blood Hunt is good, because you’d always see mounted TGs, who are heroes. Heck, even skullseeker host might have some merit. 

Don’t rely on charging Bloodcrushers. Terrorgheists are way too fast, we’ll never get the charge off. 

They would send each terrorgheist to butcher the chaff, then use feeding frenzy to attack our hammers behind and try to finish them. Personally, I would use 2 lines worth of flesh Hounds for this reason. 

For mortals, you’d be surprised. Blood Warriors have No  reSpite, terrorgheists have a meh 4+ save. It’s not that good. Buffed Blood Warriors can actually take on a terrorgheist, because their defensive tech isn’t that good. Wrathmongers, are as usual, amazing. Kill them, eat mortal wounds. Same with skullreapers.  Reavers are ok chaff, but can’t attack when they die. Skullcrushers are not recommended because they are a favored target for TGs due to their rend and mortal wound output. Same thing with Bloodcrushers. You’d never get a charge against a smart player. Use 2 lines of chaff to keep his monsters back so you can keep the hammers safe. 

Slaughterpriests are mortal wound batteries, they can snipe the supporting heroes, or finish off wounded beasties.  This is where a Skullgrinder or exalted Deathbringer will shine. The flesh eaters have little ways to snipe them, so we can pile on the damage. 

Remember, terrorgheists have a shooting attack against our bravery. It’s a huge pain, hence any way of buffing bravery is welcome, like the command trait Bloodsworn, or the Skullgrinder. 

As terorrgheists without riders are never seen, we can expect to see mounted TGs a LOT. 

Havent really played against them, but these are my tactics against them if I had to tailor to fight them specifically. 

1 hour ago, ChaosLord said:

Why doesn't anyone use Skarbrand?

Possibly because he deletes entire units with ease, which might be no fun for the opponent :P . Let’s be honest, no one likes playing against a point click and delete unit, cough evocators... 

Jokes aside, Skarbrand is slow, and he’s not extremely Tanky by any means. Of course, despite this, I do think he is extremely strong in any list. Especially if you have mongers and a Bloodsecrator. Slaughter is not that great, the 4+ to hit holds it back, but the sheer attack count let’s it dish out a LOT of hurt. Carnage is the real deal. It’s the reason why you buff his attack count. Multiple chances for that sweet 6, and you can easily do 16-24 mortal wounds. It’s absolutely insane. Generally, Skarbrand requires you to play smart. Get into combat? He gets to activate Skarbrand’s rage. After that, he’ll likely be banged up, so Carnage and Slaughter will be at full power. But you HAVE to keep him safe. Chaff, multiple threats, it’s the reason why I think a Tyrantsof Blood with Flesh Hounds can use skarbrnad. It’s hard to target that angry daemon when there’s literally 3 more of them in your face. 

55 minutes ago, Silchas_Ruin said:

I done good damage with Skullgrinder, but yes, I end up depeding on my opponent coming to fight. Never actually done 3 Slaughterpriest, normaly play 2 that do good work. But might be true that I don't get much extra out of the last one, opponent might just keep important stuff away from the Altar.

Already have Bloodsecrator and the extra CP is from battalion.

A real hammer instead of the Skullgrinder might be a good idea, Think I will drop a few things and go Insensate Rate or Skarbrand

Ahhhh my bad, didn’t read properly. If you do drop the Skullgrinder and Slaughterpriest, that’s 180. You could *possibly* fit an Insensate Rage if you drop another priest, but that would reduce your total priest count by quite a lot. However, I do like the Bloodthirster. And if you like, play a Skullfiend tribe and give him both command traits and artifact. If you’re lucky Ourtageous Carnage can kill multiple heroes, and it works with Master Decapitator if I’m not mistaken. Of course, bring a killing frenzy priest to buff an Insensate Rage, and give him Crowncleaver to maximize his fishing for sixes. 

If you do try 3 Priests, I actually am interested to see how it goes.  

But the Skullgrinder is still a very good option. In fact, I’m gonna try a Red Headsmen battalion this weekend, using blood bind to force enemy heroes closer to my grinder. The Skullgrinder is nice now because he has a VERY high damage output, and that bravery buff is very useful, especially because it stacks with Icon Bearers. One fun interaction: If you take Mighty lord of Khorne with the bloodsworn Command Trait, a skullgrinder and Icon Bearers, your blood Warriors and Bloodreavers would be getting about 9+1+1=11 bravery, which seems very helpful for our MSU units to never run away. 

Edited by Kaz
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@Kaz@ledha

I see I do have a lot to learn :)

Why do i think Wrathmonger are supporters? Because wqith their 5+ save I won't let them run onto an enemy unit on their own. I would always screen them away, otherwise they will get smashed very easy.
In combination with their abilities, they do support other units pretty well.

That's why I would consider them support, and not main fighters. Of course they do solid damage, so therefore they are good supporters :)

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13 hours ago, Kaz said:

Interesting to note. An attack buff to your Bloodletters effectively gets doubled with a Reapers. I still prefer Bloodcrushers and flesh Hounds, but i do think Bloodletters might still have a place... but they’re still too expensive right now imo

 

Yeah, I think  dogs and warriors currently make better frontline than letters. Letters are good second line hammer unit and a good summon.

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