AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[fwlr]

7 hours ago, Sleboda said:

I have had three bloodthirsters one-shotted in the last two games. They do not reflect their lore status at all.

Are you running tyrants of blood then?

I'm really interested as to how they're working for people, I'm slowly building up a list for them. What is your list? What thirsters are you using? Battleline?

If you've got some battle reports, (even of those that went completely sideways) I'd love to hear them.

[Mikeymajq]

Beat some Fyreslayers recently  1250 pts though.  The scenario was the one with 3 objectives on the centre line, one randomly being worth more points. 

I tried something different from my usual lists with 2x10 blood warriors, skullreapers, wrathmongers a throw away unit of 5 chaos warriors. Skarr, priest, bloodsecrator and bloodstoker.

I lost most of my bloodwarriors to vulkites as fyreslayers got the early double turn. But I managed to whittle them down thanks to the fists and No respite at least. I had luckily managed to grab a decent foothold on the objectives.

My wrathmongers got shot off the table by  tunneled auric hearthguard so I didn't get to use Skarrs combo with them but he himself was quite the beast against vulkites getting a ton of attacks in. 

Skullreapers went to town and mopped up 10 heartguard berzerkers with the help of my priest and bloodsecrator. I summoned in 10 bloodletters and pulled a 9" charge into the auric gunline. 

At this point most things were dead or only  few models left. At the end I managed to summon another batch of bloodletters to screen the objective and securing a win. 

I got quite lucky with the objectives, and managed to get an early lead too.

I seriously need to learn to use the bloodtithe for other things than summoning, but getting more bodies in saved my army. But having the reapers fight again would probably have been gold.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Mikeymajq

[Retro]

6 hours ago, Mikeymajq said:

I seriously need to learn to use the bloodtithe for other things than summoning, but getting more bodies in saved my army. But having the reapers fight again would probably have been gold.

Keep in mind that sometimes, using bloodtithe for out of phase movement, blocking a key spell or an extra unit attacking can save a unit (or kill an enemy one), then you don't need to summon the extra bodies.

[Praecautus]

2 hours ago, Retro said:

Keep in mind that sometimes, using bloodtithe for out of phase movement, blocking a key spell or an extra unit attacking can save a unit (or kill an enemy one), then you don't need to summon the extra bodies.

This is crucial advice! Tithe is not always about getting models on the table. It’s power of letting you things out of phase. 

[ChaosLord]

Question for my Khorne brothers ... did you find the mortal models to be tedious to paint? I've got a few mortal sets I'm getting ready to start working on, and there seem to be a lot of little details. I love the models but it's starting to look like a ton of work. Wondering if I should maybe grab some Flesh Hounds...

[Sleboda]

11 hours ago, fwlr said:

Are you running tyrants of blood then?

Nah. That's a lot of points to spend for practically no benefit.

Not to mention, by a literal application if the rules, it only ever works one time for one model.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Sleboda

[Xasz]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

Not to mention, by a literal application if the rules, it only ever works one time for one model.

🙄

[fwlr]

5 minutes ago, Xasz said:

🙄

Indeed. 

[kozokus]

Hail mighty warriors!

Just had a small 20 man tourney with 1500 points and Vanguard restrictions (2+ battleline and 0-2 behemoths...)

Here is the list.

Goretide

Lord on Juggernaut General Hoe the Foe. + torc

Bloodsecrator

2 priests with sacrifice and brozed flesh.

3Mighty Skullcrushers

3Mighty Skullcrushers

5 Skullreapers

5 Skullreapers

5 Skullreapers

Wrathaxe and bloodicon

choices explained : 9 drops is  a lot at 1500 (and i didnt have any 1st turn.) but i gave up on bataillons since they are a significant invvestment at that range and some contain too much taxes. i also gave up on 3 places of power (scenarios are random on 1D18)

Goretide because of the reroll and the 3+ unmodifiable seemed a good idea.

At that range 3+/2+ armor can be a pain to manage and i beleved that juggernaut battlelines could be hard to manage.

Skullreapers because they are our grimgastreapers.

I am against the trend that seems to find that the skulls are great. Yes the effect is great when it connects, but the stars have to align. You have to face a magic opponent, play 1st in the round or play second and make the skull survive, put the sulls in range, makke the ennemy cast, fail to cast, weak enough to be dissipated or roll a 8. not for me. Plus i had to know that a good half of the tournament are not gonna play magic heavy or at least significant (and nagash is absent in that format) Too much condition for e. I prefer the icon, d3 mortals is d3 mortals and the bravery effect can sometimes connect.

I tried to play the countercharge game with screens of juggernaut with reapers behind.

 

Battle 1 Blood and glory VS Nurgle

GUO, giant daemonrat, mortal sorcerer 60 monks, 3X5 blightkings

The guy was nice but seems inexperienced. He didn't seems to know the insane tricks a Nurgle army can deploy on instant-win scenarios.

He took the fisrst turn and to my greatest displeasure charged with his  monks and took 3 jugger a priest and my lord. Then 10 Reapers piled in and the blob disapeared. I took the double and charged his giant rat that was far too advanced and poped it. The rest of the game was me trying to hunt for his points hile trying to prevent some summoning shenanigans. By the end of turn 5 i had all points. Blood tithe usage : Extra combat-10 hounds summoning-extra movement.

 

Battle  2 Scorched earth VS Stormcast

Stardrake 2X2 fulminators 2X5 liberators 1X5 Judicators 1Castellant

He took the turn 1 and made the long charge with the stardrake and 2 fulminators, distributing mortals in the shooting phase. He anihilated a unit of reapers anda priest (and ate a bloodsecrator) The fulminators bizarely bounced on the juggerlord and left him at 2 wounds. I was forced to attack the stardrae and ate a bunch of extra mortalsdue to the shield. On my turn l left the Stardrake with 3 jugger on 2+ to manage and charged both his fulminators and fished for mortals (and killed all) From that point, the stardrake took far too much time to kill all the jugger which allowed me to take all his points 18-12 for me. Bloodtithe usage : 10 hounds summoning ;to capture a point before beeing anihilated exta movement.

 

Battle 3 

Battle of the pass VS Idoneth 

King, Caster, Priest 9 Morsarr 6 ishlaen and 20 Thralls. (King & Morsarr in the ethersea)

He made a mistake and took the 1st turn, put an eel in range to capture a point and leave the other alone.

In my turn i Bloodbind him and his ishlaens where suddenly far too close. I advanced with everybody, charged with 10 reapers, killed them all, took the double turn spend 3 tithe, charged the thralls with 5 reapers, and a unit of jugger, killed them all. Took all points. At the end of that turn he had only his caster on the table. On his turn 2 he poped the king and the morsarr, charged my lord in the back, killed him, took the double and killed5 reapers and 3 jugger and took my point. At the start of my turn 3 he had mathematicaly lost. If he leaves my point i retake it with a summoning from the altar and if he stays i am still to far ahead.

38-19 for me. Bloodtithe usage : 5 hounds summoning, extra movement AND A DAMN EXTRA CHARGE IN HIS TURN 4 HOW STUPID I AM since he can disengage and charge.

3-0 not bad. 

Afterthought : 

Goretide is ok without warriors but the reroll is unimpressive.

Priests are awesoms, hounds too.

Juggernauts battleline are far more interesting that i thought.They are extremely hard to remove and they move relatively fast. The juggerord is a crappy Bloodtithe point. Only good because he unlocks army compositions. I missed my aspiring deathbringer.

I missed dogs. I always need ore of them.

There is no such thing as "too much Skullreapers. "

I still missed the skulls because they are better roadblocker than the icon but the icon was a marvel. (the axe is godly)

 

[Smooth criminal]

Just got trashed in a small tourney 1-2. This was literally my first time playing new book though so I made a ton of mistakes.

List was:
1500 points
Reapers of vengeance
UF Thirster general w. scales
bloodmaster
3x10 letters
Charnel host
2x5 reapers
priest w. sacrifice & skulls
bloodsecrator w. skullshard

Game 1 minor win against Nurgle 3x fat demon battalion on Total commitment.
He had basically nothing except those 3 dudes and they had to stick together so I quickly overwhelmed one flank while delaying other with summons.
Loss on kills since I managed to down only 1 wounded big guy with thirster double tap.

On a side not playing wholly within army vs. within army is a very weird experience.

Game 2 major loss against Sylvaneth Alarielle+Drucha+chaff on a Battle for the pass.
I got dice downed at the start of my 3rd turn after he made his 3. I traded in thirster for objective clear up and had 8bp ready to summon a thister to kill some big guy of his, but it never happened so I basically entirely misplayed my BPs.
Skulls are damn good against monsters who want to cast bunch of spells and play forward like Alarielle.

Note to self: always keep at least 1 unit on home objective at all times since sylvaneth can now teleport their bark exosuits literally anywhere for free. I mistakenly thought they only can teleport from woods. I would actually won if I didn't give him free 4 points since final score was like 10-13 even with timeout.

Game 3 major loss against Nighthaunt Reikenor+cogs+60 ghasts on Focal points.
He has 1 drop less, gives me first turn, then charges with 60 ghasts and it's a giant melee between them and everything I have.
My misplays on sequencing combats cost me around probably 20-40 letter/reaper attacks so by t3 he goes too far ahead on score. I probably could've finished his bricks, there was like 4-6 guys left of each at this point.

On a side note Thirster sucks balls against unrendable army, UF whiffed a lot. Should've pumped CPs elsewhere.

Reapers blow away spooks in huge chunks. He would get destroyed by battleshock in 1 turn if he didn't have the CP restoring artifact on 5+ to make everything immune.

Some observations:
- skulls work differently than I expected. They basically do nothing turn 1, then do a whole lot turn 2 onwards. So despite being potent wizard counter they still can't stop turn 1 heavy wizarding. I wish we could have 2 BP turn 1 to auto counter mirror/cogs.
- amount of unbinds wasn't enough because of skulls underperformed turn 1. I think I want some dogs in here.
- 10x letters are great damage dealers for their price with all the force multiplier. 40 attacks with rend from 110pt unit for 1 CP that do mws? Yes please.
- sacrifice is great, going to be my default prayer unless I particularly want +save or +hit. He basically improves your summoning by 1 step each turn. I got off 10 letters summons every turn with him and 10 letters are 40 attacks as said in previous point.
- reapers are very good offensively, but they need to be single unit here. Ideally the fight order goes: reapers smash their target, letters/thirster pile in from safe 6 and double strike stuff before it even retaliates. With 2 units of reapers 1 unit get beaten before it hits.
- reapers aren't good enough defensively by a tiny bit. They want a +save or slaughterborn or both.
- UF thirster is amazing, basically you can pay 3 CPs (don't forget BPs can give you CPs) to double smash something 22" away from him (or 17" away from letters), you don't always need that 3rd CP since you can just roll well on run.

Conclusions: 
-Probably the murderhost battalion is better with the UF's ability.
-UF probably should have artifact to first strike on 4+. Antimagic here is decent already so he needs some melee trump and I think people will hesitate a lot before trying to charge first strike monster even if it's random. And scales won't save him from good shooting anyway.
-Maybe the reapers should be mongers instead. Imagine opponent charging your 2 units of letters with mongers behind them. You pay CP for double fight with both, now the one which he doesn't kill fights back with 60 attacks and then mongers also fight from safe 2".
-Army also don't want to go first like ever (although it's not very bad at it with all the punchback abilities) so I want to lower the drop count.
-Come  to think of it, Karanak teleport battalion from Wrath&Rapture would've punished all my 3 opponents pretty hard with their importnat heroes and low screen.

I think the synergy in the reapers host works best with mortal anvil and demon hammer. Using cheap demon battleline is okay since yo ucan resummon them, Mortals have a lot of fight on death abilities so they will make great first line and then your demons can kill stuff. I think thirster battallion is excessive and too all-in, it's better to have 2 thirsters or 1 UF+units ir 1 UF + 1 Archaon.
You know who would also be great? Skulltaker. Imagine him double tapping on a monster with his full rerolls and damage 3, it's like mini-terrorgheist with his 3 mws on 6.

Currently if I would play the list again I'd change it to:
UF thirster w. 4+ strike first
bloodmaster
2x5 dogs
10 letters
Murderhost
10x reapers
priest w. +save & skulls
bloodsecrator w. skullshard
And test if it's enough BP generation without sacrifice. If it's not then I'd try skullcrushers instead of reapers.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[fwlr]

How crucial are people finding the judgements? Are you wanting to find room for them in every list you make, or are they a bit meh, and they're nice to have if there's a few points going spare? 

The wrath axe seems just brutal, but at 60 points I'm finding it hard to stick on the end of many of my lists.

Thoughts?

[Smooth criminal]

I think 1 judgment and 1 priest is 100% needed.  If you don't take them you don't fully use the allegiance. Axe is the best one, but you may not have points for it. If it's taking better unit + skulls/icon vs. taking weaker unit + axe I'd take skulls/icon.

Now the second one is a question and not so much because of judgments, but because of a priest. I think a priest is a bit weak for 100pt because he can't go far from the altar. Also, that's +1 drop in all but gore pilgrim lists.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[Sleboda]

3 hours ago, Xasz said:

🙄

Yeah, I know. Just sayin'. 

Even if we play it the way we think it should be, I still think it's a lot of points to tie up there. Not really worth it when at least one of them will be dead before you get to use it.

[MOMUS]

5 hours ago, fwlr said:

How crucial are people finding the judgements? Are you wanting to find room for them in every list you make, or are they a bit meh, and they're nice to have if there's a few points going spare? 

The wrath axe seems just brutal, but at 60 points I'm finding it hard to stick on the end of many of my lists.

Thoughts?

They are the best use of spare points.

[MOMUS]

8 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Nah. That's a lot of points to spend for practically no benefit.

Not to mention, by a literal application if the rules, it only ever works one time for one model.

Please, enlighten us.

[Darksteve]

8 hours ago, Sleboda said:

Nah. That's a lot of points to spend for practically no benefit.

Not to mention, by a literal application if the rules, it only ever works one time for one model.

My favorite part about this is that if you want to go with that approach then it works one time for one model ever. Between games even. Same with reapers. Once per model as long as you own that model.

[Galdenistal]

11 hours ago, ChaosLord said:

Question for my Khorne brothers ... did you find the mortal models to be tedious to paint? I've got a few mortal sets I'm getting ready to start working on, and there seem to be a lot of little details. I love the models but it's starting to look like a ton of work. Wondering if I should maybe grab some Flesh Hounds...

Yes, Khorne mortals are some of the most time consuming models to paint in all of AOS, Points per hour spent painting is a depressing thought regarding mortals. I've recently plowed through 20 Bloodreavers and I've got 20 Blood Warriors to do next, not looking forward to it. I'm currently painting a Soul Grinder in-between as a distraction.

[Sleboda]

I switched up my normal Bloodthirster's upgrades in my most recent game and ended up noticing something that appears to be an error, but I'm not sure if maybe I'm overlooking something.

Demon Trait Devastating Blow.

It says a wound roll of 6 does Mortal Wounds equal to the Damage of the weapon and then specifies you don't make a wound roll  or save roll.

Um, we've already rolled the wound roll, which is what triggered the  MWs.

Any ideas?

[Retro]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

I switched up my normal Bloodthirster's upgrades in my most recent game and ended up noticing something that appears to be an error, but I'm not sure if maybe I'm overlooking something.

Demon Trait Devastating Blow.

It says a wound roll of 6 does Mortal Wounds equal to the Damage of the weapon and then specifies you don't make a wound roll  or save roll.

Um, we've already rolled the wound roll, which is what triggered the  MWs.

Any ideas?

Maybe it is future proofing for instances where enemy abilities make you reroll unmodified wound rolls of 6? 

Probably an error though.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Retro

[Sleboda]

9 minutes ago, Retro said:

Maybe it is future proofing for instances where enemy abilities make you reroll unmodified wound rolls of 6? 

Probably an error though.

I'm thinking the trait is meant to trigger on the hit roll. I can't prove it, though, which is why I wondered if I missed an update or something.

Ah well, for now I take it with the Hellblade and do D3+1 mortals with every 6 to wound on that bloodthirster. Not bad.

[ChaosLord]

13 hours ago, kozokus said:

The juggerord is a crappy Bloodtithe point. Only good because he unlocks army compositions. I missed my aspiring deathbringer.

It's a shame too because the model is fantastic. Would you feel better about using him if he were 140 points and not 160?

[Zamik]

20 hours ago, Retro said:

Keep in mind that sometimes, using bloodtithe for out of phase movement, blocking a key spell or an extra unit attacking can save a unit (or kill an enemy one), then you don't need to summon the extra bodies.

This weekend I played Three Places of Power with my friend and used Apoplectic Frenzy on some Skullreapers to wipe out a unit of chainrasps in the Hero Phase, then they piled in against the Guardian of Souls holding the objective in the Combat phase and took him out, and meanwhile my Bloodstoker had just happened to walk right up to the objective amid the slaughter!

[Ken]

14 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

- 10x letters are great damage dealers for their price with all the force multiplier. 40 attacks

How do you get 40 attacks out of 10 Bloodletters?     +1 from Wrathmongers, +1 from Bloodsecrator takes you to 3.  Where does the 4th attack come from? 

Thanks. 

[Smooth criminal]

5 hours ago, Sleboda said:

I switched up my normal Bloodthirster's upgrades in my most recent game and ended up noticing something that appears to be an error, but I'm not sure if maybe I'm overlooking something.

Demon Trait Devastating Blow.

It says a wound roll of 6 does Mortal Wounds equal to the Damage of the weapon and then specifies you don't make a wound roll  or save roll.

Um, we've already rolled the wound roll, which is what triggered the  MWs.

Any ideas?

It's a copy pasted wording from the "mws on hit" abilities.

[Smooth criminal]

4 minutes ago, Ken said:

How do you get 40 attacks out of 10 Bloodletters?     +1 from Wrathmongers, +1 from Bloodsecrator takes you to 3.  Where does the 4th attack come from? 

Thanks. 

Reapers of Vengeance CP ability. With mongers it will be 60 in fact.

Paying CP for a small unit of letters may seem too much, but 20 letter attacks is a good trade for 1 CP in my book.