AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Bjornas]

1 hour ago, Rivener said:

We won’t see any point reductions.

Since the book is so new, or?

[Rivener]

Brand new book. The point costs were almost certainly established when the new GH was already being tested or finalized.

[Iquitelikeegg]

4 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Allegiance: Khorne, Skullfiends, 1980pts, 5 drops, 144 wounds

-Slaughterborn:

Exalted deathbringer

2X5 skullreapers

10skullreapers

3X5 bloodwarriors

-2X5 wrathmongers

-Bloodsecrator + mortal wound banner

-Bloodthirster of insensate rage + general + crowncleaver

This is a list that I'd quite wanted to try out - though I would have run it as goretide.

I think to really get the value from skullfiend tribe - you want at least 1 unit of Khorgoraths. In my games so far, I've found the skullfiend khorgoraths to be a real force to be reckoned with, rerolling hits and wounds is no joke - and  the +2 attack artefact is really great on a bloodthirster with their high quality attacks.

bloodwarriors really are great screens, even with their low body wound, and at 140 points for 5, I often use my wrathmongers as front liners, since they are relatively cheap wounds and they also have a damage on death ability. 

I've dropped the secrator recently in my lists - cos he's got such a target painted on him - how have you found him - and how do you keep him alive?

[Oldshrimpeyes]

Having just come into possession of some new on sprue Bloodthirsters I find myself wondering what the optimal load out is for a Tyrants of Blood list? One of each kind, or somewhere in between?

[TheArborealWalrus]

55 minutes ago, Iquitelikeegg said:

This is a list that I'd quite wanted to try out - though I would have run it as goretide.

The reason I'm running it as skullfiend is to get that +2 attack artifact on the thirster. The only way I know of to get +2 innate attacks on a daemon hero is to combine a command trait and an artifact. Might get some other little bonus on top, but if there was one it didn't seem worth it to me. Why I decided against goretide was two fold. 1: the gorertide artifact is at it's best with a 3+ save not found in my list. it'd do something, but this list is more about murder, not survival. 2: I rarely ever used the goretide command ability as it broke up my nice little castles and unsupported bloodwarriors are not serving at their maximum potential. Ironically the command ability would serve me better in this list to throw them at far objectives. I might try both, we'll see how it goes.

Korgoraths are an excellent hammer and made better by the command ability, but I used the points I might have otherwise used on them to get the thirster. I mostly wanted to try spamming skullreapers when I made this. I had 300pts left and thought to try the thirster. I did consider using them, but I almost never break out my bloodthirster. It was his turn in the sun. Plus I wanted a separate general to boost the deathbringer's damage up.

1 hour ago, Iquitelikeegg said:

I've dropped the secrator recently in my lists - cos he's got such a target painted on him - how have you found him - and how do you keep him alive?

I never leave for the battlefield without him. After my first 2 games with the new book I almost gave up on him, but as I tried more, I saw his value restored. Admittedly his success might have more to do with my opponents than any tactical brilliance on my part. He has only been targeted in about 20% of my games and since 2.0 he's been shot at even less. "Alright, what's his save? 3+? And there's a -1 to hit him? Right, might as well shoot what he's buffing then." His only real threats have been from mortal wounds that bypass those negatives to hit like the stardrake and that goblin or nurgle spell. When he got killed by the goblin's spell in my 2nd game with the new book I realized how important he still was. My army's damage output dropped significantly. It might also help that I've used him as bait for cannons and such in the past. I think he's a bit too expensive without the battleshock immunity, but he still helps hold the team together.

As for specifics... I typically form two castles around the altar for priest buffs on whoever needs it, making placement of the altar even more important. (not in this new list, but still) Then from there I place him firmly between the two castles so that he gets the -1 to hit and if someone is foolish enough to charge him they get sandwiched between two blenders. (or put him on the altar to limit charges on him anyways)  Plus he's reasonably tough, so they might not even kill him if he gets caught. It obviously depends on who/what you're fighting, but sometimes he's just excellent bait. Especially in this list where each part is more self reliant. I'm also usually very aggressive with my castles (knowing when to hold back is important too though) so my opponents might get distracted by the hammers and forget him. My plans often include bait. Plus my guys are often tightly packed, so he may also get lost in the crush, so that's another potential factor to his usual survival for me.

1 hour ago, Iquitelikeegg said:

I often use my wrathmongers as front liners, since they are relatively cheap wounds and they also have a damage on death ability. 

Agreed, but for me their job is 1: to buff the hammers sitting in the second rank and 2: hit over the heads of the hammers when the chaff gets annihilated.  That 2" reach makes them my 2nd/3rd line troops so that I get the multiple ranks of attacks with our big 'ol bases. Plus once my opponent thinks they've de-fanged me I can throw the mongers in as the finishing blow. They do a surprising amount of damage. Without my usual tactics I might try using them as human shields in this list. We'll have to see. Cheers all!

[Draakur]

Anyone else look at the newly revealed Brutes and think they could be useful for Khorgy conversions?

[kenshin620]

6 minutes ago, Draakur said:

Anyone else look at the newly revealed Brutes and think they could be useful for Khorgy conversions?

Yea they'll make good alts.

 

 

But also why aren't Ruinstorm daemons available in AoS yet!

[TheArborealWalrus]

4 hours ago, Oldshrimpeyes said:

Having just come into possession of some new on sprue Bloodthirsters I find myself wondering what the optimal load out is for a Tyrants of Blood list? One of each kind, or somewhere in between?

I don't use daemons often, but from what I've seen an unfettered fury  for the 6" pile in is the closest to a must (to get around various shenanigans that are out there) otherwise they each do something different and are all worth taking for different reasons. Insensate does splash damage, unfettered prevents retreat and has a ranged attack, wrath drops short range mortal wounds and has the run and charge command. Skarbrand can also be taken in the battalion, but everyone knows how deadly he is. (also don't know if he can be built out of the new base kit)

Edited May 13, 2019 by TheArborealWalrus

[MOMUS]

7 hours ago, Oldshrimpeyes said:

Having just come into possession of some new on sprue Bloodthirsters I find myself wondering what the optimal load out is for a Tyrants of Blood list? One of each kind, or somewhere in between?

One of each is pretty good IMO, maybe play a few games with proxy to see what fits your playstyle. With the GHB just around the corner I'm waiting to see the points/scenario changes to invest in another or skarbrand.

[Xasz]

12 hours ago, Bjornas said:

GHB19 about a month away - what points changes do you expect to see?

 

Also interesting with the split into two books, although not sure what that'll mean...

Just as others pointed out, changes are unlikely due to release proximity.

Other than that, I wouldn't be surprised anymore if BTs and other random stuff would get more expensive for no reason. Plus, GW is obliged by law to change the Korgorath points whenever possible. /s

Personally, I'm more interested in the big faq after the GHB (in July).

Edited May 13, 2019 by Xasz

[Battlefury]

14 hours ago, Bjornas said:

GHB19 about a month away - what points changes do you expect to see?

I do expect, that nothing will be changed yet, due to GW semms to not really coordinate their release roadmap, so our army might just skip this GH.

What I would really like to see is:

Bloodsecrator: 100, maybe 120
Blood Reavers: 50/180
Blood Warriors: 80/420
Skullreapers: 140, maybe 160
Bloodcrushers: 120
Skull Canon: 100
Aspiting DB: 60
Khorgorath: 80, maybe 90
Flesh Hounds: 80 AND DECREASE THE PRICE ( actually, 40€ for 5 fu**ing easy to build models is bollocks )

There would for sure be more, but that's the most important stuff imo.

[Bjornas]

5 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

I do expect, that nothing will be changed yet, due to GW semms to not really coordinate their release roadmap, so our army might just skip this GH.

What I would really like to see is:

Bloodsecrator: 100, maybe 120
Blood Reavers: 50/180
Blood Warriors: 80/420
Skullreapers: 140, maybe 160
Bloodcrushers: 120
Skull Canon: 100
Aspiting DB: 60
Khorgorath: 80, maybe 90
Flesh Hounds: 80 AND DECREASE THE PRICE ( actually, 40€ for 5 fu**ing easy to build models is bollocks )

There would for sure be more, but that's the most important stuff imo.

You guys are probably right about that there won't be any changes, but as you point out there were units that got changed quite drastically (wholly within) but without any points changes being made to them.

That said, I hope I don't trigger any whinefest in here again by mentioning this

Edited May 13, 2019 by Bjornas

[ledha]

Rebasing the bloodreavers on 25mm would make them viable and resolve all their problems

[kahadin]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 3:42 PM, Grimrock said:

Frankly I think Slaanesh is pretty terrifying for Khorne and I'm not really sure how we're supposed to deal with it. We have a few things in our favour, namely that we naturally run MSU and a big slaughterborn battalion will be a real tough nut to crack for an army that mostly relies on rend, but the locus of diversion just curb stomps melee armies. If you send a single unit at a keeper that unit is pretty much doomed. You can try to work around it with multiple units, but if the opponent is clever with positioning the Contorted Epitome even that might not work. They're incredibly fast, hit like a truck, and can summon 1k of points in a game if they build for it. Plus 'building for it' isn't like Seraphon where you need to sacrifice composition and combat to generate points. It just means the Slaanesh player is including loads of high damage heroes and running them straight at you to do what they would do anyway. The fact that all of our good models are multi wound doesn't help either, they're just depravity points in waiting.

They're still new so it's all theoretical, but does anyone have any thoughts on a solid list to run into Slaanesh? 

I can only think chaff will help. Try chaffing up their melee heroes with marauders or blood reavers. Maybe a brinzed flesh warshrine. It should take some time to eat through 40 men with 4+6++. 

Or layer the chaff. Multiple lines of reavers. Don't charge him. They can't fly, so try to trap them. They can probably kill a 10 man in a round, but it buys time. Then eat the rest of the army and hold objectives, but that's the only way I see it working. 

[Darksteve]

Hello. Lookimg for feedback on this list idea I had today as well as any advice on artifacts. 

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Khorne) [1,990pts] ++

+ Uncategorised +

Skull Altar

+ Leader +

Bloodsecrator [140pts]

Slaughterpriest [100pts]: 5. Killing Frenzy, Hackblade & Wrath-hammer

Slaughterpriest [100pts]: 1. Bronzed Flesh, Hackblade & Wrath-hammer

+ Other +

Wrathmongers [140pts]: 5 Wrathmongers

+ Battalion +

Battalion: Brass Despoilers [630pts]: Brass Despoilers
. Bullgors: 3 Bullgors, Bullgor Great Axes, Warherd Banner Bearer, Warherd Drummer
. Doombull
. Gors: 10 Gors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Gor Blade and Beastshield
. Gors: 10 Gors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Gor Blade and Beastshield

Battalion: Slaughterborn [820pts]
. Blood Warriors: 2x 5 Blood Warriors, Goreaxe and Gorefist, Goreglaives, Icon Bearer
. Exalted Deathbringer: Ruinous Axe & Skullgouger
. Skullreapers: 5 Skullreapers
. Skullreapers: 5 Skullreapers

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Khorne

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

+ Malign Sorcery +

Judgements of Khorne [60pts]: Wrath-Axe

++ Total: [1,990pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[Smooth criminal]

21 hours ago, Bjornas said:

GHB19 about a month away - what points changes do you expect to see?

 

Also interesting with the split into two books, although not sure what that'll mean...

I expect priests being nerfed to 1 prayer per turn total across the board, the fyreslayer faq telegraphed this intent.

We probably won't get point changes, but other people could. I expect DoK nerf and hope for celestar ballista nerf, both of those will be an improvement for us.

I really hope they somehow unscrew the strike first+double turn imbalance in the rules, but we probably won't get more than the one quick rule fix page they already posted before.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Smooth criminal

[ChaosLord]

It seems to me that a lot of the BoK heroes are overcosted compared to a lot of other factions. I mean, look at how good the SCE heroes are at 100 points, like the Lord-Celestant or Lord-Castellant. 

It seems like the Juggerlord, Mighty Lord, Korghos, Skarr, Bloodsecrator should all be 20 points cheaper. For 180 points I could get three more Skullcrushers, so it's hard to make a case for the Juggerlord in a list. I think all of these heroes are really cool, it's just really hard to make room for any of them given that the Bloodsecrator and Priest are so important, basically a must-include.

And if prayers do get nerfed, maybe the Slaughterpriest should be 80.

I don't see a big issue with the costs of other BoK units, but it would be really nice if Blood Warriors were 90 per 5 instead of 100...

[Grimrock]

4 hours ago, kahadin said:

I can only think chaff will help. Try chaffing up their melee heroes with marauders or blood reavers. Maybe a brinzed flesh warshrine. It should take some time to eat through 40 men with 4+6++. 

Or layer the chaff. Multiple lines of reavers. Don't charge him. They can't fly, so try to trap them. They can probably kill a 10 man in a round, but it buys time. Then eat the rest of the army and hold objectives, but that's the only way I see it working. 

Not a bad idea. If you can tarpit them with single wound models it helps keep the depravity numbers down, much safer than blood warriors. One thing to be cautious of though, they do have an artifact that grants flight and of course the thermalrider cloak. With one host they can also get a command trait to allow retreating and charging. You'll have to be careful about tarpitting a keeper if it can just retreat over the tarpit and charge your backline. 

Edit: which is also a really scary proposition if they get the double turn. Keeper flying 18" from the cloak, charge the front lines, then double turn to fly over and kill a couple slaughter priests or the bloodsectator. Having a backline 'just in case' screen of reavers might be required. 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Grimrock

[Battlefury]

If Slaughterpriests would be nerfed to one prayer per turn, I wouldn't see the purpose of them anymore. There would be no hero left, that can actually dish out that amount of damage and buffs from the backline.

And having them in the army, only making one prayer per turn, they should be at 60 to 80 points.

 

[kozokus]

1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said:

I expect priests being nerfed to 1 prayer per turn total across the board, the fyreslayer faq telegraphed this intent.

Priests can already cast only 1 prayer as rumesmiter. Don't mix prayers/blessings and judgements which they can cast one each by turn.

[MOMUS]

Just now, Battlefury said:

Bloodsecrator: 100, maybe 120
Blood Reavers: 50/180
Blood Warriors: 80/420
Skullreapers: 140, maybe 160
Bloodcrushers: 120
Skull Canon: 100
Aspiting DB: 60
Khorgorath: 80, maybe 90
Flesh Hounds: 80 AND DECREASE THE PRICE ( actually, 40€ for 5 fu**ing easy to build models is bollocks )
 

Bloodsecrator should drop, still a useful model though 

reavers at 50 would be way too cheap, same with warriors at 80 maybe give them both cheaper but bigger min unit size? (Might muck up battalions)

Reapers are awesome! I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go up

crushers and cannon I totally agree, cannon I don’t think is actually worth 100 same(ish) as 10 bloodletters, but any lower and it’s spam territory (esp with the battalion)

Deathbringer shouldn’t be a hero same as skullgrinder, in a new BoK I would do them as unit upgrades

khorgi maybe buy in pairs, cheaper, but are independent at start of battle?

fleshounds I’m sure will go up, too good for what they do, the price... well that’s Erm another matter lol

[Warbossironteef]

Hi All,

Do you think the below is a competitive take on Goretide? The extra CP point is great because it can allow you to fly across a whipped unit of BWs and then auto run your BT so that it has a 22 inch threat range. The Lord and Skullreapers follow up and both have the added bonus of being able to be whipped.

Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (300)
- Artefact : Thronebreaker's Torc
Chaos Lord on Manticore (250)
- General
- Command Trait : Hew the Foe
- Blade & Lance
- Artefact : Dimensional Blade
Bloodsecrator (140)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Bloodstoker (80)
UNITS
15 x Blood Warriors (300)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Skullreapers (360)
- Goreslick Blades
BATTALIONS
Gore Pilgrims (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
TOTAL: 1950/2000

[Darksteve]

9 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

Bloodsecrator should drop, still a useful model though 

reavers at 50 would be way too cheap, same with warriors at 80 maybe give them both cheaper but bigger min unit size? (Might muck up battalions)

Reapers are awesome! I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go up

crushers and cannon I totally agree, cannon I don’t think is actually worth 100 same(ish) as 10 bloodletters, but any lower and it’s spam territory (esp with the battalion)

Deathbringer shouldn’t be a hero same as skullgrinder, in a new BoK I would do them as unit upgrades

khorgi maybe buy in pairs, cheaper, but are independent at start of battle?

fleshounds I’m sure will go up, too good for what they do, the price... well that’s Erm another matter lol

The issue imo with warriors is the terrible way gw went about designing thier special weapon. If they were in line with sequitors for example we would have 3x goreglaives per 5 guys with 1 on the leader getting an extra attacks. If they fix the loadout issue then they are fine at 100.

Are dogs really in "need nerf" territory? They have no rend and a 5+ save at 100 points. Imo they are fine. Mathmatically cannons should be about 105 points to be as good as they were pre wrathmonger change amd skullreapers are priced appropriately I believe, especially when comparing them to similar units in other books. Thier 5" move with 0 run and charge access really hampers them.

[Warbossironteef]

40 minutes ago, Darksteve said:

The issue imo with warriors is the terrible way gw went about designing thier special weapon. If they were in line with sequitors for example we would have 3x goreglaives per 5 guys with 1 on the leader getting an extra attacks. If they fix the loadout issue then they are fine at 100.

Are dogs really in "need nerf" territory? They have no rend and a 5+ save at 100 points. Imo they are fine. Mathmatically cannons should be about 105 points to be as good as they were pre wrathmonger change amd skullreapers are priced appropriately I believe, especially when comparing them to similar units in other books. Thier 5" move with 0 run and charge access really hampers them.

100% about the BW weapons. Wtf is the 10 man per weapon?? I hate that rule

 Even per 5 would be a huge improvement and still fair. 

[Xasz]

5 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

I expect priests being nerfed to 1 prayer per turn total across the board, the fyreslayer faq telegraphed this intent.

We probably won't get point changes, but other people could. I expect DoK nerf and hope for celestar ballista nerf, both of those will be an improvement for us.

I really hope they somehow unscrew the strike first+double turn imbalance in the rules, but we probably won't get more than the one quick rule fix page they already posted before.

Then they "telegraphed" stacking is back on the menu as well... 🙄 /s

Changing DoK or Celestar will actually not change a whole lot for Khorne. Skaven, Fyreslayer and maybe Slaanesh will remain completely unchanged and are starting to leave their mark on the scene (all of them are arguably bad match ups for Khorne).