AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[ChaosUndivided]

I was toying around with the idea of running 2 Blood Stokers when tome came out. I'm still trying to squeez 2 into a list but havn't been able to yet. I find that im much more in favor of taking another Priest in his place or battalion requirement hero. But i am still in favor of at least trying it. I really need to get more games in just busy lately.

[Pejzub]

15 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

Welcome to the world of Hearthguard beserkers..... On paper, it seems like Khorne is going to struggle against that unit. I believe that army also has defense from magic which makes snipping their buffing characters difficult as well.  

Its not just on paper, you can't fight Zerkers with anything we have. Lords of the lodge battalion makes them attack twice, command ability makes them strike first for command point. With Runesmither (The guy with icon) and prayer we are talking 3+ save and 4+ ignore. Felt like Khorne is really bad matchup for us, as the main weakness of that army is that they are weak to magic and shooting off the important heroes.

Managed to win most of my games though as there seems to be really hard to find a balance of the units, either they have to commit to two strong hammers (two magmadroths and 15+ hearthguard) and with support they are left with noone to held the objectives, or they just have to get one deathstar and one semi-hammer. Their biggest weaknes is the 4" movement speed. If they have two hammers just play objectives (or we can actually punch through Magmadroths, but not if they play two hearthguards). If they play the deathstar just screen them with reavers (make a line around them, let them charge you at max 3", if some survive retreat and rinse and repeat), just don't even try fighting it.

[Sleboda]

If anyone knows how to contact the Warscroll Builder folks (GW hides the 'Contact Us' link that, like, every business website ever makes available), please let them know Karanak isn't a leader (per the FAQ).

Thank you.

[kahadin]

I'm going to start seeing if there is something we can make that is comparable to witch elves using blood stokers.

I don't want to try with reavers as they are bigger bases and worse stats than witch elves.

Blood warriors might do the trick as they are more durable and get glaives. They are pretty comprable and man for man you can get the same attacks on them... But they cost twice as much as witch elves, so half the attacks for the points (you also pay a lot to get 4a warriors) and the bigger bases.

Not sure if it can really be done, but I'm going to start thinking about it, then start playing it and see how it goes. If anyone gets some good ideas, please let me know so I can try them. 

edit: I just recognized we get reroll all hits from the warshrine and reroll all wounds from the stoker. This seems pretty key and important. I bet it will hype up mortals in ways I don't understand yet. 

That said it only has an effect on mortals. So no beastmen nor demons. Refill hit bulgors would be nice though.

Edited April 30, 2019 by kahadin

[Darksteve]

2 hours ago, kahadin said:

I'm going to start seeing if there is something we can make that is comparable to witch elves using blood stokers.

I don't want to try with reavers as they are bigger bases and worse stats than witch elves.

Blood warriors might do the trick as they are more durable and get glaives. They are pretty comprable and man for man you can get the same attacks on them... But they cost twice as much as witch elves, so half the attacks for the points (you also pay a lot to get 4a warriors) and the bigger bases.

Not sure if it can really be done, but I'm going to start thinking about it, then start playing it and see how it goes. If anyone gets some good ideas, please let me know so I can try them. 

edit: I just recognized we get reroll all hits from the warshrine and reroll all wounds from the stoker. This seems pretty key and important. I bet it will hype up mortals in ways I don't understand yet. 

That said it only has an effect on mortals. So no beastmen nor demons. Refill hit bulgors would be nice though.

You can do hit on 3s rr1s bullgors with full wound reroll once with brass depoilers.vonsidering they can get 4 great axe attackes per model and 4 horn attacks per model with 6s to wound doing mortals in addition it seems pretty good.

[Xasz]

3 hours ago, Sleboda said:

If anyone knows how to contact the Warscroll Builder folks (GW hides the 'Contact Us' link that, like, every business website ever makes available), please let them know Karanak isn't a leader (per the FAQ).

Thank you.

He has an account on tga afaik. 

@scrollbuilderdude

Edited April 30, 2019 by Xasz

[Sleboda]

Just now, Xasz said:

He has an account on tga afaik. 

@scrollbuilderdude

Thanks!

[Kaz]

4 hours ago, kahadin said:

I'm going to start seeing if there is something we can make that is comparable to witch elves using blood stokers.

I don't want to try with reavers as they are bigger bases and worse stats than witch elves.

Blood warriors might do the trick as they are more durable and get glaives. They are pretty comprable and man for man you can get the same attacks on them... But they cost twice as much as witch elves, so half the attacks for the points (you also pay a lot to get 4a warriors) and the bigger bases.

Not sure if it can really be done, but I'm going to start thinking about it, then start playing it and see how it goes. If anyone gets some good ideas, please let me know so I can try them. 

edit: I just recognized we get reroll all hits from the warshrine and reroll all wounds from the stoker. This seems pretty key and important. I bet it will hype up mortals in ways I don't understand yet. 

That said it only has an effect on mortals. So no beastmen nor demons. Refill hit bulgors would be nice though.

Don’t forget Blood Warriors have no respite, so killing them might technically cause them to attack twice (if you attacked with them earlier). 

Once again, Blood Tithe seems stronger than daemon summoning, especially considering relentless fury for Blood warriors. 

And yeah: Warshrine+Stoker is a huge increase to blood warrior damage. Then factor stuff like mongers and secrator to further increase that damage.  

[Kaz]

1 hour ago, Darksteve said:

You can do hit on 3s rr1s bullgors with full wound reroll once with brass depoilers.vonsidering they can get 4 great axe attackes per model and 4 horn attacks per model with 6s to wound doing mortals in addition it seems pretty good.

Yeah the Brass Despoilers focusing on Bullgors is actually terrifying. Bullgors are meh in Beasts of Chaos, but Khorne fixes a lot of their problems (low attack count, poor hit rolls). They hit EXTRMELEY HARD with some buffs factored in. 

[ChaosUndivided]

Fyreslayers is really not as bad of a match- up as ppl seem to think. They move 4 inches! Just chaff them and they will spend the entire game tied up in fights they don't want to be in while you sit on objectives.

[Smooth criminal]

5 hours ago, kahadin said:

I'm going to start seeing if there is something we can make that is comparable to witch elves using blood stokers.

I don't want to try with reavers as they are bigger bases and worse stats than witch elves.

Blood warriors might do the trick as they are more durable and get glaives. They are pretty comprable and man for man you can get the same attacks on them... But they cost twice as much as witch elves, so half the attacks for the points (you also pay a lot to get 4a warriors) and the bigger bases.

Not sure if it can really be done, but I'm going to start thinking about it, then start playing it and see how it goes. If anyone gets some good ideas, please let me know so I can try them. 

edit: I just recognized we get reroll all hits from the warshrine and reroll all wounds from the stoker. This seems pretty key and important. I bet it will hype up mortals in ways I don't understand yet. 

That said it only has an effect on mortals. So no beastmen nor demons. Refill hit bulgors would be nice though.

The closest thing we have to witch elves are reapers.  For 360 you get 30x wounds 40x 3+/3+ atacks with reroll hit and for 80 can get them to reroll wounds via stoker.

After that the difference becomes very clear since witches have 1.5-2 times more attacks and their save+fnp reroll brings them to be 3 times as tanky as reapers. This gap in output simply cannot be narrowed by any means.

However 40 reaper attacks are still enough to kill most things since you can fish for mws, at this point it becomes only an issue of delivering them.

 

[ChaosUndivided]

If you check out the South Cpast Gt stats on AoS Shorts. Had the Khorne player only achieved 1 more Hidden Agenda he would have moved up two places to secure 4th with no ties. 

[Smooth criminal]

11 hours ago, Kaz said:

For always Strike first dudes, the Unfettered Fury Bloodthirster feels like our best threat; Blood Lords only affects one of our Bloodthirsters. HOWEVER: Tyrants of Blood with either Unfettered fury or Blood Lords, seems best. 

I think that the reapers of Vengeance tyrants/Blood Hunt List is our best bet, with all the Bloodthirsters. All of them can pile in and attack twice, and hit very hard.

By Unfettered Fury you mean using the pile-in 6" ability to get around first strike? That's cool, I missed that. Damn, pile in 6" on Skarbrand into double fight for CP seems like a blowout.

I guess you can also use Khul as a cheaper way to do this and try to fisht for instakill.

[ChaosUndivided]

DoK are still everyone's boogy man and FEC needs a point change on big bat riders.

I think the trick to beat either is the same things that work against other opponents, forgo summoning, use either Apocalyptic Frenzy or the  after you die Blood Tithe boons. 

I have a match up with DoK this week so ill report back with how that goes.

[Kaz]

10 minutes ago, Smooth criminal said:

By Unfettered Fury you mean using the pile-in 6" ability to get around first strike? That's cool, I missed that. Damn, pile in 6" on Skarbrand into double fight for CP seems like a blowout.

I guess you can also use Khul as a cheaper way to do this and try to fisht for instakill.

Yep! It makes Unfettered Fury a very solid choice now. In addition, his new whip rule that prevents retreating makes him a very interesting proposition. The unfettered fury works best in a Daemon focused army, where his command ability has the most effect. In fact, there’s a cool interaction you can do here: Run ALL your daemon units that can be caught by the Unfettered fury’s bubble, but run such that you are within 6 inches of the enemy. In charge phase, don’t charge. During combat phase, pile in and attack. It works against Slaanesh, fec and idoneth. 

HOWEVER. This may eventually get errata’d, and knowing GW, if this trick is used enough in reapers of Vengeance tyrants lists it probably will. 

9 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

DoK are still everyone's boogy man and FEC needs a point change on big bat riders.

I think the trick to beat either is the same things that work against other opponents, forgo summoning, use either Apocalyptic Frenzy or the  after you die Blood Tithe boons. 

I have a match up with DoK this week so ill report back with how that goes.

Interestingly, FEC’s bat riders are very expensive. They’re literally 400. Same as Skarbrand. In fact, FEC in general are very expensive points wise to make up for their summoning. 

Personally, I do feel it’s a problem of terrorgheists. Literally just terrorgheists. Last time, their wound roll of 6 did mortal wounds, until GW buffed it. And to make matters worse, they introduced that mount trait (Gruesome Bite)which re rolls  hits on bite attacks. Combine that with archregent/Ghoul king attack buffs, then feeding frenzy and you have a ridiculous hammer that can legitimately deal 50+ wounds in total. 

HOWEVER. For countering FEC, I’m not gonna repeat myself about Unfettered Fury, or Tyrants of Blood or reapers of Vengeance .  

What I will emphasise is this: FEC are super reliant on spells from the abhorrants, while their troops are super reliant on heroes to survive and deal damage. Our ability to deny magic is a huge problem for them. 

Its one thing that’s going for us that Daughters of khaine probably hate about us. They have to cast mind razor, but we just need to pray and we’re fine. These factions that are reliant on magic suffer quite a fair bit against Nagash and Arkhan(+3 unbind/cast anyone?), but we’re not as bad since our prayers can’t get denied. Our judgements can’t get thrown back at us. 

One thing I like is our mortal wound output. Our Slaughterpriests, if using offensive judgements like axe, combined with blood boils, can severely knock down big guys like terrorgheists. 

[Kaz]

Question: If playing a (mostly) mortal Khorne list, and you wanted to fit a Bloodthirster, would you go for Skarbrand, an Insensate Rage or a wrath of Khorne? 

[Reuben Parker]

11 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Question: If playing a (mostly) mortal Khorne list, and you wanted to fit a Bloodthirster, would you go for Skarbrand, an Insensate Rage or a wrath of Khorne? 

Depends what your wanting shore up.

if anti melee Death Star then I would go Skarbrand as his damage output now is amazing (buff with bloodsecrator and wrathmonger). 

Vs a more skirmish shooting and magic Rage can be very good one or two sixes on wounding can destroy entire blocks of small units and heroes ( is luck dependant though especially with being unmodified 6s).  I have looked at mainly mortal lists that just have one or two Bloodthirster and still play reapers to make them really strong hammers whilst the mortal elements screen. 

[ChaosUndivided]

Oh bat riders are that much? Yeah idk something seems off. In a mortal army im taking BTIR for flying over Skarbrand because i want to get in back lines and get those support units out the way asap.

[minthras]

Yo folks!need an advice if this list is actually "legal" or there something wrong .

alliance : Khorne

Mighty Lord of Khorne (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Violent Urgency
- Artefact : Talisman of Burning Blood
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact : The Blood-forged Armour
Bloodstoker (80)
- Artefact : The Brazen Rune
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy

UNITS
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1 x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1 x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (180)
- Bloodglaives
5x Wrathmongers (140)
BATTALIONS
Dark Feast (110)
Gore Pilgrims (140)

[Reuben Parker]

33 minutes ago, minthras said:

Yo folks!need an advice if this list is actually "legal" or there something wrong .

alliance : Khorne

Mighty Lord of Khorne (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Violent Urgency
- Artefact : Talisman of Burning Blood
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact : The Blood-forged Armour
Bloodstoker (80)
- Artefact : The Brazen Rune
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy

UNITS
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1 x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1 x Goreglaives
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (180)
- Bloodglaives
5x Wrathmongers (140)
BATTALIONS
Dark Feast (110)
Gore Pilgrims (140)

As you have both dark feast and gore pilgrims you will need 4 units of reavers (units don’t count towards multiple battalions). Similar vein 1 priest will be in the feast and 2 in the pilgrims. Also you gave them all the same prayer but only one can attempt it per turn (the allegiance prayers are unique / warscroll ones all priests can attempt every turn).  It is legal to give them all the same prayer but is wasteful. 

[Impa]

Has anyone run a 30 man bloodwarrior blob? So your 3x goreglaives are out front while your blob is locked in combat? that would be a serious wall of madmen with all the random buffs we can dish out to it. Some serious objective holding power. 

[minthras]

1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:

As you have both dark feast and gore pilgrims you will need 4 units of reavers (units don’t count towards multiple battalions). Similar vein 1 priest will be in the feast and 2 in the pilgrims. Also you gave them all the same prayer but only one can attempt it per turn (the allegiance prayers are unique / warscroll ones all priests can attempt every turn).  It is legal to give them all the same prayer but is wasteful. 

Ok thx...wich prayer did you suggest?

[Warbossironteef]

8 minutes ago, Impa said:

Has anyone run a 30 man bloodwarrior blob? So your 3x goreglaives are out front while your blob is locked in combat? that would be a serious wall of madmen with all the random buffs we can dish out to it. Some serious objective holding power. 

I feel like 30 man, disregarding the physical size of the unit, is too pricey, 600 points. I think 20 man is probably the max I'd run and IMO is the max number that makes sense. Maybe you could get 600 points of value out of a 30 man unit but a lot games you won't, so I don't like the idea of over-investing . 

But your mileage my vary! 

[Impa]

Just now, Warbossironteef said:

I feel like 30 man, disregarding the physical size of the unit, is too pricey, 600 points. I think 20 man is probably the max I'd run and IMO is the max number that makes sense. Maybe you could get 600 points of value out of a 30 man unit but a lot games you won't, so I don't like the idea of over-investing . 

But your mileage my vary! 

its 520 points so you can get a stoker to run with them for that 80. also if your running gorepilgrims easy enough to give them that +1 attack. and you can bubble wrap that stoker in the middle for the wholly within whip giving them the re roll wounds, bronze flesh them for +1 Defense roll. Goretide to re roll ones if wholly within 12 of objective (this one may be the issue) lots of potential! 

[Impa]

This is the list i was pondering to go with the 30 man blob. stoker dedicated to the warriors and one for the reapers. wrathmongers with the reapers. bloodsecrator following the warriors. with 10 man screen of reavers for both the secrator and priests. 158 wounds with gorepilgrims. multiple +1 attack options. re rolls etc. 

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
LEADERS
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing : Killing Frenzy
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Hew the Foe
- Artefact : Thronebreaker's Torc
- Banner of Khorne (Artefact) : Banner of Wrath
UNITS
10 x Skullreapers (360)
- Goreslick Blades
- 2 x Spinecleavers
5 x Wrathmongers (140)
30 x Blood Warriors (520)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 3 x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
BATTALIONS
Gore Pilgrims (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS
Wrath-Axe (60)
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 1 WOUNDS: 158
LEADERS: 6/6 BATTLELINES: 3 (3+) BEHEMOTHS: 0/4 ARTILLERY: 0/4
ARTEFACTS: 2/2 ALLIES: 0/400