AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[ChaosUndivided]

@Glaidos

750 is tight for list building but I'll throw something out there.

Altar

2x Slaughter Priest (blood boild & blessings bronzed flesh and killing frenzy) 200

Karanak (because the extra 5 hound he can summon gets better in a lower point games) 140

10x Blood Warriors (gore fist and buffs from priest they are gonna be able to hold an objective and protect your Priest) 200

5x Wrathmongers (in lower point game with few units to buff they are better than Secrator for their damage output but alternative is a Secrator with Banner of Wrath) 140

10× Blood Reavers (i assume you need 2 battleline per rules and they bring you to exactly 750 plus they can steal objectives not being defended)

If you want to focus on summoning drop a blessing for Blood Sacrifice and use it on Reavers. Dump all buffs on the Warriors and use Karanak and Priest to snipe the opponents support heroes. You can just hold your ground and chew them down then take over board with summons.

[Reuben Parker]

I would agree that Mortal Khorne is a lot better off in the new book. Suicide MSU is definitely better with an improved bloodtithe table and units that don’t really need any support now (like skull reapers are good with zero buffs). 

If people don’t want a big smash special character all the smaller ones are good now as well. Valkia, Skarr, Scyla who also happens to be my favourite sculpt. However I think Skarbrand is so good that to me he’s an auto include. Against deathstar style lists I think Khorne can suffer and he has just incredible damage output to break them up. 

As I always think though people should hobby how they want and agree you should play the things you enjoy. I just took Deepkin with Akhelian Corp and only 12 eels to a tournie recently as I had just finished the shark and turtle. 

[Charleston]

Had yesterday my first game with the new Battletome and....boy we ain´t gonna have fun when Gutbusters/BCR´s Tome drop this year. We playes a 2v2 with Khorne + Shooty Lizzards and Kroaknado against Gutbusters and BCR and got smashed pretty badly. I places a MLoK, Deathbringer with Spear, Wrathmongers, a Khorgorath and 2x10 Reaver and 2x10 Bloodletters. Also a Slaughterpriest, Bloodsecrator and a Skulltaker. As the game went I actually was only fightning Gutbusters as the BCR went for some Lizzards on a Stick on the Buffet.

It was simply not possible to do enough damage to the Ogors to kill them all before they could to the same to me. Due to the multi-damage and low save the ogors were able to simply tear whole units apart. The only Unit that actually did some harm to them was the Skulltaker, who was slashing and decapatating Ogors after Ogor.

The game was a hell lot of fun but yeah, without a BT life can be pretty grim fightning Ogors.

[Laier]

@Glaidos your welcome.

You could still do dispell thing without behemots, but it would be pretty focusing on support and summoning.

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Reapers of Vengeance

Leaders
Karanak (140)
Skarr Bloodwrath (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- General
- Trait: Mage Eater 
- Artefact: Skullshard Mantle 
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Resanguination

Battleline
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)

Endless Spells
Hexgorger Skulls (40)
Bleeding Icon (40)

Total: 740 / 750
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 42
 

Karanak and Skarr will lead the hunt, use the Reapers command and harass the enemy to keep them of your "base". Skarr would just suicide on enemy chaff to be reborn again, giving you blood tithe and helping in summoning daemons where they needed.

Meanwhile priests should stab/heal eachother, rack up bloodtithe for summon and do their prayers thing. You really need some letter heroes upfront early I think.

Ofcourse it would only work if Nurgle will tank for you  first turns. Because if you daemons will flank every nurgle's melee - couple it with Reapers doublefight, +d3 fleeing from reapers and +d3 fleeing from icon - you will melt enemies (hopefully).

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Laier

[MOMUS]

Just now, ChaosUndivided said:

@MOMUS almost all my list are 100% mortals not because i need to win every game but i do need to have fun. The deamon side of things is just not that interesting to me. I got like 500 points of deamon stuff for summoning and i rarely even do that. So yes where do mortals stand without relying on Thirsters? Idk but it feels like a much better place than pre-tome.

I used to be the same, in the last book I started stockpiling daemons for summoning play, but with some of the recent changes to mortals like the bloodsecrator etc its kinda put the nail in the coffin, perhaps it’s just not a priority at HQ.

I sincerely hope the mortal units get some points adjustments in the next GHB, I love the models and lore. Currently painting up the third duplicates of the kits I have! Also want to convert a mighty lord on dragon as proxy bloodthirster. 

 

[Bjornas]

This weekend in wargaming: Faced a magic-heavy trio of Great Unclean Ones (the thricefold-something batallion with Rotigus) plus Glottkin, and in one of their crucial Hero phases I manage to not only force them to re-roll successful spells thanks to the Bloodsecrator, with a -3 to cast thanks to the altar and Hexgorger skulls, but my opponent also rolls a clean 8 to cast twice and all four of them were within 12” of the skulls. 4x2D6 mortals! This enabled me to eventually kill two of them and claim a tight victory. Sometimes the gods really are on our side  

Edited April 29, 2019 by Bjornas

[2D6]

New Khorne looking pretty good in the tournament scene over the weekend picking up 6th at South Coast GT with over 120 players (3 BoK in top 20), and 9th at BrisVegas Open with over 90 players. Not all doom and gloom then  

Lists over at AoS Shorts if anyone is interested. South Coast 6th place featured an interesting Archaon + dark feast list! Definitely some variety there, check it out for some list building inspiration!

[Pejzub]

Not trying to put the BrisVegas Open down, but all of the lists there feel very very underwhelming, the Khorne player list feels very weak to me, winning FS list is very lackluster (tested 5 different FS lists over the last week with friend and they can definitely do much better and more balanced lists with double or even triple threats), so does the gloomspite lists along with most of the rest.

The results of SCGT are much more interesting and telling in my opinion. Seems like demons are the way to go, not surprising. Personally I have yet to play them, but have been heavily testing mortal lists (close to 20 games now with the new tome) and I like what I am seeing there, if demons are straight upgrade then Im excited.

[Kaz]

17 hours ago, Charleston said:

Had yesterday my first game with the new Battletome and....boy we ain´t gonna have fun when Gutbusters/BCR´s Tome drop this year. We playes a 2v2 with Khorne + Shooty Lizzards and Kroaknado against Gutbusters and BCR and got smashed pretty badly. I places a MLoK, Deathbringer with Spear, Wrathmongers, a Khorgorath and 2x10 Reaver and 2x10 Bloodletters. Also a Slaughterpriest, Bloodsecrator and a Skulltaker. As the game went I actually was only fightning Gutbusters as the BCR went for some Lizzards on a Stick on the Buffet.

It was simply not possible to do enough damage to the Ogors to kill them all before they could to the same to me. Due to the multi-damage and low save the ogors were able to simply tear whole units apart. The only Unit that actually did some harm to them was the Skulltaker, who was slashing and decapatating Ogors after Ogor.

The game was a hell lot of fun but yeah, without a BT life can be pretty grim fightning Ogors.

Oh man, I’m a Gutbusters fan, and I can safely assure you they’re right now a bit annoying. They’re very luck based, and excel at straight up brawls. The Tyrants are the worst, especially with the command trait and the Great gutgouger and ghyr Strike,  it’s actually almost gristlegore levels of disgusting. 

HOWEVER, having a Bloodthirster may not be that helpful, because he can be easily crippled/one shot by a built tyrant. And tyrants are tough enough to survive wrath flails. And I’ve seen gutbusters lists that bring 3+ Tyrants. 

Ogors are crazy good because for a cheap cost you’ve got a wall of meaty bois (I love ogors)

the funniest thing is that gutbusters is surprisingly competitive, because tyrants and ironguts are insane hammers, the ogors are a tar pit that won’t completely smash you, but they’ve got so many attacks that the ones that get through will hurt. We also have Gnoblars that are crazy good objective grabbers, esp with tyrant command. 

Advice: Take out the Tyrants first. Their command ability, Bully of the first Degree and Inspiring Presence is key to keeping the army together, and their personal presence in combat makes them a pain to deal with . Then, the Butchers, they are buff bots. Ogors are extremely vulnerable to battleshock, and generally have low armor. Skull Reapers can actually do a LOT of damage to Ogor blocks. Once the heroes fall, the army will crumble soon after. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Kaz

[Kaz]

18 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

I would agree that Mortal Khorne is a lot better off in the new book. Suicide MSU is definitely better with an improved bloodtithe table and units that don’t really need any support now (like skull reapers are good with zero buffs). 

If people don’t want a big smash special character all the smaller ones are good now as well. Valkia, Skarr, Scyla who also happens to be my favourite sculpt. However I think Skarbrand is so good that to me he’s an auto include. Against deathstar style lists I think Khorne can suffer and he has just incredible damage output to break them up. 

As I always think though people should hobby how they want and agree you should play the things you enjoy. I just took Deepkin with Akhelian Corp and only 12 eels to a tournie recently as I had just finished the shark and turtle. 

Interesting. So it’s been tested, and after thinking a bit, it does feel Reapers of Vengeane is stronger than Bloodlords (imo), especially with Tyrants of Blood. 

Bloodletters feel meh, without Wrath’s command and Bloodstoker, being quite slow. And they’re 11 points a model. Skull cannons are ok, reliable thanks to Locus, Bloodcrushers are ok, though I dislike their single attack hellbaldes. 40K Bloodcrushers have literally 3 attacks per pop with the blades, and get even an extra on charge

Flesh Hounds seem strongest. Cheap and fills battleline.

i do like the fact that all our Bloodthirster synergize quite nicely together. It’s also nice that skarbrand also seems like a solid choice. 

In terms of Battalions, Blood Hunt makes sense. Every list has a lot of heroes, and a Wrath swinging his blood flail has an easier time one shotting someone with that bonus. Tyrants of Blood is obviously strong. 

Murderhost frankly feels meh to me, since it needs all those Daemons wholly within range of the Bloodletters Hero. Skullseeker it goes without saying, it’s honestly kinda bad. Charnel host frankly is imo bad, because it wants so many Bloodletters, and Bloodletters have imo fallen out of favor. 

So for Khorne daemons, it seems the tyrants of blood/blood hunt combo is strong into Reapers of vengeance . I like the low drop count, and the fact that there is no dependence on Bloodsecrator. 

[Warbossironteef]

52 minutes ago, Pejzub said:

Not trying to put the BrisVegas Open down, but all of the lists there feel very very underwhelming, the Khorne player list feels very weak to me, winning FS list is very lackluster (tested 5 different FS lists over the last week with friend and they can definitely do much better and more balanced lists with double or even triple threats), so does the gloomspite lists along with most of the rest.

The results of SCGT are much more interesting and telling in my opinion. Seems like demons are the way to go, not surprising. Personally I have yet to play them, but have been heavily testing mortal lists (close to 20 games now with the new tome) and I like what I am seeing there, if demons are straight upgrade then Im excited.

Welcome to the world of Hearthguard beserkers..... On paper, it seems like Khorne is going to struggle against that unit. I believe that army also has defense from magic which makes snipping their buffing characters difficult as well.  

[Kaz]

20 hours ago, ChaosUndivided said:

@MOMUS almost all my list are 100% mortals not because i need to win every game but i do need to have fun. The deamon side of things is just not that interesting to me. I got like 500 points of deamon stuff for summoning and i rarely even do that. So yes where do mortals stand without relying on Thirsters? Idk but it feels like a much better place than pre-tome.

I agree about big smashy solo characters. I got stuff like Warshrine, and Slaughterbrute, their big and fun but not game changing. I dislike stuff like Nagash or Stardrake as it makes the match all about them and how well that character performs. This is main reason i dont currently have Archaon.

I think for Mortal Khorne, we have to understand win condition is very different. 

Mono Daemons of Khorne list seems to be a fast glass cannon list, and can lose steam when those Bloodthirsters die. 

Remember, I think Mortal Khorne has the advantage in terms of sheer wound count. For example: 10 Skullreapers/6 Skullcrushers is a bit more ex than a Wrath BT, yet is 30 wounds compared to a Wrath with 14. 

As @ledhadisplayed, Mortal Khorne plays a more attrition based game. We have huge wound and body counts, lots of attack after death (no respite, murderous to the last, mongers), and Goretide solves our mobility problem. 

Goretide lists focused on objective play seems powerful. The artifact is good, the trait is also good. 

Even so, Skullfiend seems good. It’s only weakness is that opponents MIGHT move their hero out of range (but that could be playing into your hands). Their much more damage focused than Goretide imo, with large Khorgorath blocks focused on killing everything in their path. Their command trait and artifact is extremely good for an Insensate Rage, and he goes nuts with it. 

as far as Battalions go, I feel Gore Pilgrims is still ok, Slaughterborn and bloodmad are imo the best. Bloodforged is ok, skulltake is however REALLY good for Skullfiend tribe, the dark feast and brass stampede are the ones i’m a bit uncertain about, I don’t really feel them. 

TLDR: For Mortal Khorne, if Goretide, play around objectives, and Slaughterborn or Bloodmad, while if playing skullfiend tribe, Skulltake seems best. 

Mortal Khorne is a slower playstyle compared to Khorne Daemons, but more resilient and  better at objectives with our body count, while also able to use Blood Tithe better with  many more MSUs

[Kaz]

4 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Welcome to the world of Hearthguard beserkers..... On paper, it seems like Khorne is going to struggle against that unit. I believe that army also has defense from magic which makes snipping their buffing characters difficult as well.  

Magic, not the Judgements of Khorne  

Also, for Magore’s, I agree with @MOMUS. They’re ok. Having the Blood Warrior keyword helps a little for Goretide command, and they’re ok as a suicide unit. Magore himself is nice-ish, I did do a Killing Frenzy, Bloodstoker whip and Goretide command, launched Magore’s Fiends into an enemy ranged unit and he did decent damage. Riptooth is pretty funny tho. I’ve had riptooth tie down a ranged unit, and they overkilled him. 

However, I do feel a 5-man Blood Warrior team is better. Far less damage, but frankly, fits more comfortably into lists. I like them a lot. Especially because Magore’s Fiends are effectively 2 extra drops, and that’s painful. 

Id use them for fun, but not for competitive lists. But they are imo better than garrek’s Reavers. 

[Kaz]

5 hours ago, Bjornas said:

This weekend in wargaming: Faced a magic-heavy trio of Great Unclean Ones (the thricefold-something batallion with Rotigus) plus Glottkin, and in one of their crucial Hero phases I manage to not only force them to re-roll successful spells thanks to the Bloodsecrator, with a -3 to cast thanks to the altar and Hexgorger skulls, but my opponent also rolls a clean 8 to cast twice and all four of them were within 12” of the skulls. 4x2D6 mortals! This enabled me to eventually kill two of them and claim a tight victory. Sometimes the gods really are on our side  

Sweet! The thricefold Befoulement is horrifying to face, but how did they end up within range of the altar? Did the opponent make a mistake? I find it’s kinda hard to coax someone within range of the altar to smack them with Witchbane. 

[Warbossironteef]

1 minute ago, Kaz said:

Magic, not the Judgements of Khorne  

Also, for Magore’s, I agree with @MOMUS. They’re ok. Having the Blood Warrior keyword helps a little for Goretide command, and they’re ok as a suicide unit. Magore himself is nice-ish, I did do a Killing Frenzy, Bloodstoker whip and Goretide command, launched Magore’s Fiends into an enemy ranged unit and he did decent damage. Riptooth is pretty funny tho. I’ve had riptooth tie down a ranged unit, and they overkilled him. 

However, I do feel a 5-man Blood Warrior team is better. Far less damage, but frankly, fits more comfortably into lists. I like them a lot. Especially because Magore’s Fiends are effectively 2 extra drops, and that’s painful. 

Id use them for fun, but not for competitive lists. But they are imo better than garrek’s Reavers. 

I almost lumped our judgements into magic... please don't hurt me

[Kaz]

Just now, Warbossironteef said:

I almost lumped our judgements into magic... please don't hurt me

Khorne Cares Not From Whence The Blood Flows... 

 

[Bjornas]

2 hours ago, Kaz said:

Sweet! The thricefold Befoulement is horrifying to face, but how did they end up within range of the altar? Did the opponent make a mistake? I find it’s kinda hard to coax someone within range of the altar to smack them with Witchbane. 

We played the scenario with deployment on the short end and 3 objectives. He marched his three GUOs to the middle objective and glottkin on his right one. Due to terrain and his placement of the tree the GUOs were pretty stuck next to each other, so they were close to the altar and it was easy to get them all in range of the skulls. But yeah, would not have been as easy with another scenario.

[Warbossironteef]

Off topic a little, but does the community have any clues/feelings for when or if Slaves to Darkness will be updated? I feel like that update will be big for Khorne.

My mortal lists seem to lack options in terms of a true hammer unit. Skullreapers are good board control but slow and Manti-lord is good but is close to BT range. BT's work okay in mortal lists, but if you run Goretide you really are losing the huge buff from Reapers. 

[Smooth criminal]

Which juedgement is better if I have only points for one? Axe or Skulls? Or maybe they are so important I should try to fit both?

[Zamik]

2 hours ago, Smooth criminal said:

Which juedgement is better if I have only points for one? Axe or Skulls? Or maybe they are so important I should try to fit both?

It depends what you're fighting: if your opponent has a powerful spellcaster or two on the board, skulls make them have to be careful; if you're not worried about your opponent's magic, the skulls will just end up sitting around. The axe can do a fair amount of damage, and it also gives enemies within 3" a -1 to hit, which is probably our best shooting defense!

[Smooth criminal]

What out of two judgements would you pick for general meta?

 

Also what's our answer to strike first combat monsters? Seems like more and more of those around. We can bring strike first thirster, but he's a bit slower than AGK/KoS, which makes him more likely to get charged by them. The reaper/monger abilities seem easy to get around with positioning, do we just rely on blood warriors and 6 bp reward to kill them? Focus fire them with slaughterpriests? Doesn't seem like enough mortal output, needs cannons or something on top, maybe a WoK.

[kahadin]

Has anyone tried playing multiple bloodstokers? I feel like they basically are a kind of death hag now passing out witchrew to the troops. I feel like there is probably some way to amp up a unit kind of like DoK since we have fat death hags.

[Kaz]

8 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

Off topic a little, but does the community have any clues/feelings for when or if Slaves to Darkness will be updated? I feel like that update will be big for Khorne.

My mortal lists seem to lack options in terms of a true hammer unit. Skullreapers are good board control but slow and Manti-lord is good but is close to BT range. BT's work okay in mortal lists, but if you run Goretide you really are losing the huge buff from Reapers. 

Possibly either at warhammer fest, or in June. 

Goretide has a somewhat different playstyle from reapers. With reapers your win condition is getting your Bloodthirsters into combat with your desired targets, and leveraging your command ability and Tyrants of Blood to either severely cripple or destroy the target before they hit back. 

I believe this is why reapers tyrants of Blood and Blood Hunt is so good, wrath of Khorne in Blood Hunt snipes extremely well, and his command ability can be used to buff Skarbrand or Insensate Rage, while unfettered fury can effectively allow all our Bloodthirsters to Strike first, so long as they are within 6 inches of the enemy. It’s our answer to Idoneth deepkin always strike first, gristlegore, and Slaanesh  

1 hour ago, Smooth criminal said:

What out of two judgements would you pick for general meta?

 

Also what's our answer to strike first combat monsters? Seems like more and more of those around. We can bring strike first thirster, but he's a bit slower than AGK/KoS, which makes him more likely to get charged by them. The reaper/monger abilities seem easy to get around with positioning, do we just rely on blood warriors and 6 bp reward to kill them? Focus fire them with slaughterpriests? Doesn't seem like enough mortal output, needs cannons or something on top, maybe a WoK.

In almsot all my lists I bring 2 Slaughterpriests and 2 judgements: usually wrath axe and hexgorger. The Bleeding Icon is reliable damage, and easier to summon than axe, but the debuff has been invaluable. Hexgorgers are almost always useful for me: Magic is quite common, and even if it isn’t: The skulls can block space, while being easy to summon. 

For always Strike first dudes, the Unfettered Fury Bloodthirster feels like our best threat; Blood Lords only affects one of our Bloodthirsters. HOWEVER: Tyrants of Blood with either Unfettered fury or Blood Lords, seems best. 

I think that the reapers of Vengeance tyrants/Blood Hunt List is our best bet, with all the Bloodthirsters. All of them can pile in and attack twice, and hit very hard. 

14 minutes ago, kahadin said:

Has anyone tried playing multiple bloodstokers? I feel like they basically are a kind of death hag now passing out witchrew to the troops. I feel like there is probably some way to amp up a unit kind of like DoK since we have fat death hags.

Considering how cheap our Bloodstoker are, I do think taking 2 in a Mortal Khorne army is very good, especially with the current approach of taking multiple hammers (2-3 units of Skullreapers, 2 units of mongers, etc.) 

Furthermore, they synergies with ALL mortal Khorne units, thus charging chaos knights or gorebeast Chariots are even stronger with the stoker. 

I foresee 2 Bloodstokers becoming a staple in competitive Khorne mortals, even in Goretide lists. 

[ChaosUndivided]

17 hours ago, MOMUS said:

I used to be the same, in the last book I started stockpiling daemons for summoning play, but with some of the recent changes to mortals like the bloodsecrator etc its kinda put the nail in the coffin, perhaps it’s just not a priority at HQ.

I sincerely hope the mortal units get some points adjustments in the next GHB, I love the models and lore. Currently painting up the third duplicates of the kits I have! Also want to convert a mighty lord on dragon as proxy bloodthirster. 

I think Secrator is still great. Now that he can move its a much better situation. Granted no more battleshock immunity but really mostly running MSU and if need be have CP for that. I agree points should come down a tad on mortals but still viable and im doing good locally with them. The dragon is so kick ass.

11 hours ago, Kaz said:

I think for Mortal Khorne, we have to understand win condition is very different. 

I have always felt that way. The sheer wounds and bodies you can field is the key. Im always playing to objectives or at the very least preventing my opponent from doing so. Its a fast tarpit into slow grind where im moving fresh units in after first wave looking to land a killing blow with well timed boons from tithe table.

[Reuben Parker]

1 hour ago, kahadin said:

Has anyone tried playing multiple bloodstokers? I feel like they basically are a kind of death hag now passing out witchrew to the troops. I feel like there is probably some way to amp up a unit kind of like DoK since we have fat death hags.

As some of the other response yes I can see it being good but not tested yet myself. I could even see a double dark feast list being good. 

2 stoker

2 priest 

40/40/10/10/10/10 reavers 

2 dark feast 

1360 there so a lot of points to play with still it would probably want bloodsecrator some wrathmongers and then maybe another hero and some judgment.