AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Broken Netcode]

7 hours ago, Killax said:

I think the list look interesting. However I am not a fan of the Skullcrushers, less so because Murderhost even bumps up the speed of your other units.

Skullcrushers with Bronze Flesh make for a great tarpit. However there isn't a unit I can think of where all 9 will be put to use effectively. Using 6 allready creates enough of an Tarpit. While I get the whole aim for D3 mortal wounds, the unit still remains immense and personally too unwieldy for practice. In addition when they don't charge, the additional 3 on top of those 6 are guaranteed to do nothing. 

When you would drop 3, you'd suddenly find yourself with 200 points left, that will allow you to invest into something more efficient. From 10 Blood Warriors to Wrathmongers with 10 Marauders or even 10 Fleshhounds.

 

Thanks for the input! Man thats a real bummer about your opinion on the Skullcrushers, they were the unit I wasnt willing to change since theyre my favourate unit and the unit of 9 has done so well in my practice games! Ill try dropping them to 6 to practice for competitive games which I rarely play (I prefer semi-competitive where I use sub optimal stuff sometimes) and probably replace them with the 10 Warriors for a Bloodletter or Thirster screen/objective camping, or 10 more Hounds to fit in the Murderhost and some more speed in the list.

Gotta thank you again though, your input has been invaluable!

[AresX8]

@Broken Netcode I've put down a unit of 6 myself and they were really difficult to manuever on the table and keep in wholly within auras, I can only imagine what a unit of 9 must be like.

 

[Smooth criminal]

6 hours ago, Keith said:

So I have a Herald of Khorne on Blood Throne and an artifact slot free. What artifact would be good on a Blood throne , any ideas ?

My first thought is Gryfeather Charm , to keep it alive , as it's part of my Gorethunder Battalion.

You obviously want to protect a hero that your battalion relies upon so take gryph charm or ethereal amulet.

[Broken Netcode]

2 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

@Broken Netcode I've put down a unit of 6 myself and they were really difficult to manuever on the table and keep in wholly within auras, I can only imagine what a unit of 9 must be like.

 

I actually havent had this issue when Ive run the 9 in games other than getting the bloodstoker in range of whipping past 2nd turn, which by then I dont really mind as I most likely will have gotten a charge with them.

I can agree with the statements people are making though as there are much better units to take than 6 or 9 Skullcrushers (540 is a lot of points you can use), but being my favourite unit im going to keep them in my list. Rule of cool and all!

[Kaz]

One thing I must say: I FRIGGIN LOVE THE LORE!!! It feels strangely fresh and cool to read, plus I feel that the justifications for the judgements of Khorne are pretty well done. And I love the somewhat deeper aspects of Khorne, such as the fine line between glorifying war and worshipping it

On the other hand, I love how the Bleeding Icon is basically how Khorne T-poses on people without getting off his Throne. Big thumbs up from me. Every time I summon that boi I’m going to T-pose my opponent for 8 seconds to establish dominance for Khorne

I also love the fact that Bloodthirsters are somewhat more balanced, in that it’s less, “Take Wrath of Khorne every game” and more “You want something to die? Take Insensate Rage. You want something more supporty? Take Wrath of Khorne. You want something Rage-inducing? Take Unfettered Fury (How to counter Gristlegore: Easy, don’t be in combat in the first place) 

I also like that the Battalions are decently balanced and still fun to use, and Gore Pilgrims isn’t such a must take anymore. Ironically, I feel that full daemon armies are actually legit now, while Slaughterpriests are certainly good, they’re Not a must have, since they usually want a Judgement of Khorne to throw at people too. And since several Mortal Heroes can’t buff the Daemons, it does leave room to spam MOAR Daemons! 

I also feel that we can now deal a TON of mortal wounds, which is super helpful in Age of Sequitors, and note: that Banner of Wrath thingy the Bloodsecrator can carry can whack stuff that’s within range, not wholly within, which is actually pretty fun to use 

I seriously appreciate the fact that Skull Cannons seem so much more viable now, same with Bloodcrushers that used to be completely meh, while all our named characters look like they’ve gotten a new lease of life! (except Scylla, Khorne rest his good soul)

The main thing that annoys me is probably the fact that Khorgoraths still don’t have a stand-alone kit, and would’ve been perfect to port over to 40K (I’m a World eater and black Legion guy, so go figure), here’s to hoping khorgoraths end up in the world Eaters codex!!

So overall guys, what are YOU guys most happy about in the new tome? Now that we’ve all (mostly) vented our frustration and RAEG and salt, how about taking a break from that and talking about what in the battletome we appreciate the most? There’s a lot of salt in the thread right now, so let’s turn it into the best (and saltiest) cookies ever! 

Once again, SKULLS FOR HIS SKULL THRONE

[Kaz]

8 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

@Broken Netcode I've put down a unit of 6 myself and they were really difficult to manuever on the table and keep in wholly within auras, I can only imagine what a unit of 9 must be like.

 

I think that 3 is the optimum unit size. BUT. 6-9 would work if we don’t focus too much on the buffs. We could use 6-9 rhino units as supreme distractions, buff them with units that can keep up, like Juggerlord, while the rest of the army marches forward as a titanic brick, so the juggerknigjts crush and smash as much as possible, before they die, then our second wave comes in as a 2 hit KO

 

ALSO! I’m gonna order my Bloodstoker to whip my buffing heroes from now on. I feel that might be helpful to get them within range for those auras! Especially if they can just run to eat there! Getting at least 4 inches extra movement can help with positioning your buff bubbles. And remember, Murderlust is still there just in case your dude needs another move to get in position. 

We have to play the positioning game extremely well. Thus, why not cheat a little  

Edited April 2, 2019 by Kaz

[Killax]

8 hours ago, Sleboda said:

• Experiences you've repeated and seen to work vs. a variety of armies using all the AoS 2.0 rules
• Man-of-the-match sorts of recommendations - the real workhorses

So to continue  :
- So far Ive seen great results with Khorne Judgements, Bloodthirsters with Tyrants of Blood and generally speaking people love Wrathmongers. It also isn't that hard to see how this forms, Skull Altar is absolutely amazing, because it makes Slaughterpriests great and Hexgorger Skulls and Wrathaxe are arguably our main meta 'threats'. Bloodthirsters with Tyrants of Blood usually is there for the hardcore Bloodthirster fan, but it should work very well. Lastly Wrathmongers can turn pretty much anything in a scarier weapon as it used to. At least for now, as long as they work with Skullcannons.
- Lastly the true workhorses in my opinion are (not that different from before) found in three ways:

• Hammers: Skarbrand, Bloodthirsters, Bloodletters and Skullreapers
• Anvils: Blood Warriors and Skullcrushers, what is very important to note here is how well these work with the Wrathaxe to harass the unit they are 'tarpitting'
• Support (ranged): Slaughterpriests, Bloodsecrators, Aspiring Deathbringer, Wrathmongers and Skullcannons

The other units we have serve different purposes and are generally speaking good, but for now, as long as Skullcannons can be buffed by Wrathmongers (or Soulgrinders for that matter) I'd say the above are our real workhorses. For sure other named characters and Exalted Deathbringers can add to the offense for a specific battle. Likewise Bloodreavers still serve a purpose as chaff and objective holders. It's just that due to costs involved running Marauders seems better again. 

In terms of going full or heavy Daemon
You can certainly attempt/do it, but not running the Skull Altar or the Slaughterpriests does mean your handing over our strongest assets. The Tower is free, the Slaughterpriests are super cheap and as above, at least to me, essential support. 

While technically Bloodbind has become worse it's still functional, while we can't stack prayers we also don't have to worry about mortal wounds. The key reason to include them however is that most stuff works on a 4+ with a re-roll and can't be dispelled. This matters a ton. On top of that the Skull Altar serves 4 key roles:
- Make Slaughterpriests great
- Meddle with Wizards
- Free Terrain
- Act as a beacon for Summonning

47 minutes ago, Broken Netcode said:

Thanks for the input! Man thats a real bummer about your opinion on the Skullcrushers, they were the unit I wasnt willing to change since theyre my favourate unit and the unit of 9 has done so well in my practice games! Ill try dropping them to 6 to practice for competitive games which I rarely play (I prefer semi-competitive where I use sub optimal stuff sometimes) and probably replace them with the 10 Warriors for a Bloodletter or Thirster screen/objective camping, or 10 more Hounds to fit in the Murderhost and some more speed in the list.

Gotta thank you again though, your input has been invaluable!

Cheers man! I really think Skullcrushers are a fantastic unit, however I just don't believe investing more as 360 points into them is worth the effort. Because to me those 180 additional points are better spend in a hammer unit.
Skullcrushers who get something stuck (which is what they usually will do) thanks to 2+ saves are great as is, especially with the Wrathaxe that then can scoot through oppossing units AND make them an ever tricker tarpit to tackle to due to the debuff.

Thing is however that Mortal Wound output units still excists, usually when a player plays these they will be screened. To me it's unlikely Skullcrushers will suddenly be able to break through that screen and then be save for the aftermath. It's because of this that I think 6 are sufficient. It isn't too common they will find another unit that really comes out of them in terms of costs. With 540 units I just feel uncomfortable with their seize, obvious key unit role and due to their bases I also find it very hard to functionally see the 7th to 9th Skullcrusher preform a meaningfull role. If you want to return wounds, we can heal in other ways...

3 hours ago, Bjornas said:

Has anyone tried blocks of 15 BWs yet? 20 seems a bit unwieldy, but I'm considering trying  a 15 man block as a proper anvil, with Slaughterborn batallion, Bronzed flesh and the Bloodstoker buff they should be able to hold the enemy front for atleast a round while the rest of the army catches up. I know they'd be better off in Goretide, but I'm not giving up on Skullfiend tribe just yet

No I havn't I can see why you would consider it however. At the same time I also think that as mentioned above 360 points of 6 Skullcrushers with Bronzed Flesh archieve something scarier, especially with the Bloodstoker and their size.

If you want a Blood Warriors focus I would indeed look into Goretide. Both are great anvils. The big advantage of Skullcrushers is that 2+ armour save. With Goretide the Blood Warriors have that amazing run, with other hosts Skullcrushers will always be faster.

Cheers,

Edited April 2, 2019 by Killax

[mastercrafted]

Any chance that the crimson crown works with the slaughterhost command ability? The wording says on the warscroll

[Battlefury]

May I ask who of the here present Ladies & Gentlemen is playing competetively on tournaments?

I would like to ask, what we can do against that list:

1 Lord Arcanum
1 Lord Relictor
1 Lord Castellant
1 Knight Venator
1 Lord Ordinator

10 Sequitors
10 Sequitors
5 Evocators
3 Evocators on Dracolines

1 Celestar ballista
1 Celestar Ballista
1 Celestar Ballista

1 Balewind Vortex


My experience so far:

No chance, no matter what I take, how I position, how I move, what I focus and how I buff my units.
He straight up batteres everything to dust, before I manage to get to melee. Even when i got turn one. Even when I let him come first and engaged him turn 2, or even turn 3.
When I chaff him in combat, his units just won't be there very long, as the Sequitors destroy everything easily.
He killed 2 of 3 Bloodthirsters straight up, before they went anywhere. Hiding his Ballistas in cover with 2+ save, buffed by the Ordinator.

I just feels like, I am massively handicaped, because I can not get into melee with him as fast as I would need to. When I arrived, my key heroes where already done. Couldn't hold the "wholly within" bubble buffs.
He then just deepstriked his units in my flanks, or behind me. That was basically it. Not getting tabled within 4 turns was the best I could do.

Any suggestions?
As it is suggested, the book semms to be pretty solid now. So we should have the right tool to deal with those lists.

[Killax]

10 minutes ago, mastercrafted said:

Any chance that the crimson crown works with the slaughterhost command ability? The wording says on the warscroll

Edit: I'd say post it to the FAQ team.

Nothing really states that the abilities are added to the Warscroll. The Keywords are gained...

Cheers!

6 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

May I ask who of the here present Ladies & Gentlemen is playing competetively on tournaments?

I would like to ask, what we can do against that list:

My experience so far:

No chance, no matter what I take, how I position, how I move, what I focus and how I buff my units.
He straight up batteres everything to dust, before I manage to get to melee. Even when i got turn one. Even when I let him come first and engaged him turn 2, or even turn 3.
When I chaff him in combat, his units just won't be there very long, as the Sequitors destroy everything easily.
He killed 2 of 3 Bloodthirsters straight up, before they went anywhere. Hiding his Ballistas in cover with 2+ save, buffed by the Ordinator.

I just feels like, I am massively handicaped, because I can not get into melee with him as fast as I would need to. When I arrived, my key heroes where already done. Couldn't hold the "wholly within" bubble buffs.
He then just deepstriked his units in my flanks, or behind me. That was basically it. Not getting tabled within 4 turns was the best I could do.

Any suggestions?
As it is suggested, the book semms to be pretty solid now. So we should have the right tool to deal with those lists.

It's a very nasty list, largely due to the ranged focus.

Having said that you could aim for a Tyrants of Blood build and do nasty things aswell. What do you want to field and what do you have? A big difference for Bloodthirsters now is that Tyrants of Blood can cascade into a all in, 'kill that target superdead'...

Edited April 2, 2019 by Killax

[Roark]

20 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

 - I really want to figure out how to make a Daemon Prince work because he looks cool and I'm actually painting him lol.

Make him your Goretide general (for "Hew the Foe"), and give him the Sword of Judgement. Then you have:

4 3 3 -2 d3+1

3 3 3 0 3

If you've got heaps of attacks buffs in your army (which is half the point of Khorne lol), you put the Sword on his claws, then he's still an all-rounder who can butcher anyone. But with a Killing Frenzy, against Heroes and Monsters, he'll do 1d6MW for every 4+ to Hit.

Alternatively, just put Runic Blade or Dimensional Blade on his claws for -3 Rend on that second weapon that's pumping out 3 Damage per wound.

 

[Warbossironteef]

16 hours ago, Chocolate Obturator said:

While I share your sentiments about Khorne not being bottom tier the list you quoted  is probably a bad example and has been nerfed heavily .

I don't know how he used it  but its set up for a first turn charge of the BTIR maximising the mortal wounds output to all units within 8" I assume.

     Wrath of Khorne cant give run and charge with 1" extra any more to the BTIR

    Bloodscrator cant whip Deamons so can't give the BTIR +3" move and re-roll 1's to wound

    The AOE attack of the BTIR is now a natural 6 instead of originally a 5 or 6 with Ghyrstrike, re-rolling ones

Some things got better though

    Blood warrior gorefists

    Free warhost

   Cheaper Battalion with fewer requirements.

  Mobile Bloodscretor

 Free shrine

 

 

I doubt he was able to pull off the  "surprise" first round charges at a major tournament. People know how to deploy against things like that, but you have a point and the Stoker changes hurt your charge range. Then again you failed to mention the buffs to BTs. The fact that one can hit twice in combat and that the new Battalion allows you to hit with all 3 (or more) at the same time. Plus the new Shrine gives you rerolls for free, so it helps pay for the new battalion or the 3rd BT.

 Again, it's a shift in power. Maybe it's more minus than plus, but it's still undecided. 

[mastercrafted]

3 minutes ago, Killax said:

Do you mean if it works with Command Abilities? Yes. It certainly does. All Slaughterhosts really do is add Command Abilities. You still need Command Points for them normally but this one essentially gives you one for free.

Thanks. When i read that the crimson crown works on a command ability on a warscroll, i wasnt sure if the slaughterhost command ability counted as its not technically on the warscroll. 

Anyway getting one free reapers of vengeance double pile in and attacks per turn is probably quite useful 

[Forrix]

1 hour ago, Kaz said:

I also love the fact that Bloodthirsters are somewhat more balanced, in that it’s less, “Take Wrath of Khorne every game” and more “You want something to die? Take Insensate Rage. You want something more supporty? Take Wrath of Khorne. You want something Rage-inducing? Take Unfettered Fury (How to counter Gristlegore: Easy, don’t be in combat in the first place)

I hadn't noticed that but Unfettered Fury is a nice counter to Gristlegore. Combined with the Tyrants of Blood/Halo of Blood combo I think Khorne, or at least that list, might do pretty well on the tournament scene.

Edit: or Using the 6 inch pile in with reapers of vengeance double pile in to get quasi Gristlegore ourselves but with multiple units (assuming we have the command points, that is going to take a lot).

Edited April 2, 2019 by Forrix

[Kaz]

16 minutes ago, Forrix said:

I hadn't noticed that but Unfettered Fury is a nice counter to Gristlegore. Combined with the Tyrants of Blood/Halo of Blood combo I think Khorne, or at least that list, might do pretty well on the tournament scene.

Edit: or Using the 6 inch pile in with reapers of vengeance double pile in to get quasi Gristlegore ourselves but with multiple units (assuming we have the command points, that is going to take a lot).

Yep, I’d say a Tyrants of Blood with at least 1 Bloodthirster of each type, give Insensate Rage a Slaughterpriest with killing frenzy, maybe Skullreaper, take an Unfettered Fury with Crimson Crown, and give Wrath of Khorne anything u like. 

Such a list works great with both Reapers of Vengeance and Bloodlords. Take note for Bloodlords: Don’t heal your Bloodthirster to sustain them; if tjey’re Injured, they’re prob gonna die soon, so I’d use my command ability to drag them up a notch on the damage table. Reapers works great thanks to the sheer killing power of the Command ability, and magic denial is never bad. Such a list would forgo objective  power for sheer killing power, just the way Khorne wants it

[AresX8]

52 minutes ago, mastercrafted said:

Any chance that the crimson crown works with the slaughterhost command ability? The wording says on the warscroll

I'm going to vote no, as the Slaughterhost command abilities are not on the warscroll. The Slaughterhost command abilities are just additional command abilities that are known by heroes.

48 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

May I ask who of the here present Ladies & Gentlemen is playing competetively on tournaments?

I would like to ask, what we can do against that list:

1 Lord Arcanum
1 Lord Relictor
1 Lord Castellant
1 Knight Venator
1 Lord Ordinator

10 Sequitors
10 Sequitors
5 Evocators
3 Evocators on Dracolines

1 Celestar ballista
1 Celestar Ballista
1 Celestar Ballista

1 Balewind Vortex


My experience so far:

No chance, no matter what I take, how I position, how I move, what I focus and how I buff my units.
He straight up batteres everything to dust, before I manage to get to melee. Even when i got turn one. Even when I let him come first and engaged him turn 2, or even turn 3.
When I chaff him in combat, his units just won't be there very long, as the Sequitors destroy everything easily.
He killed 2 of 3 Bloodthirsters straight up, before they went anywhere. Hiding his Ballistas in cover with 2+ save, buffed by the Ordinator.

I just feels like, I am massively handicaped, because I can not get into melee with him as fast as I would need to. When I arrived, my key heroes where already done. Couldn't hold the "wholly within" bubble buffs.
He then just deepstriked his units in my flanks, or behind me. That was basically it. Not getting tabled within 4 turns was the best I could do.

Any suggestions?
As it is suggested, the book semms to be pretty solid now. So we should have the right tool to deal with those lists.

He looks very vulnerable to mortal wounds. I'm curious how the Lord-Castellant is increasing the save of the Ballistas when he can target only one unit (most likely Sequitors) with his +1 save ability. Judgments would help here, especially the Wrath Axe, Sequitors having to deal with a -1 to hit aren't exactly happy.

The Ballistas are most definitely an issue, I agree with you, I don't like playing against them either. 

[Kaz]

1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

May I ask who of the here present Ladies & Gentlemen is playing competetively on tournaments?

I would like to ask, what we can do against that list:

1 Lord Arcanum
1 Lord Relictor
1 Lord Castellant
1 Knight Venator
1 Lord Ordinator

10 Sequitors
10 Sequitors
5 Evocators
3 Evocators on Dracolines

1 Celestar ballista
1 Celestar Ballista
1 Celestar Ballista

1 Balewind Vortex


My experience so far:

No chance, no matter what I take, how I position, how I move, what I focus and how I buff my units.
He straight up batteres everything to dust, before I manage to get to melee. Even when i got turn one. Even when I let him come first and engaged him turn 2, or even turn 3.
When I chaff him in combat, his units just won't be there very long, as the Sequitors destroy everything easily.
He killed 2 of 3 Bloodthirsters straight up, before they went anywhere. Hiding his Ballistas in cover with 2+ save, buffed by the Ordinator.

I just feels like, I am massively handicaped, because I can not get into melee with him as fast as I would need to. When I arrived, my key heroes where already done. Couldn't hold the "wholly within" bubble buffs.
He then just deepstriked his units in my flanks, or behind me. That was basically it. Not getting tabled within 4 turns was the best I could do.

Any suggestions?
As it is suggested, the book semms to be pretty solid now. So we should have the right tool to deal with those lists.

Honestly man... I was thinking of Goretide Blood Warriors that can rush him, with Bronzed Flesh up and basically threaten him with that super tanky blob, while using fast units to come up behind. 

Sequitors are just dumb. Mortal wounds are basically the main way to murder them. Insensate Rages feel like a good choice. Same with Skullcrushers and Bloodcrhers. Basically units that are fast enough to take advantage of a Blood warrior missile, and deal high armor piercing damage 

personally i’d Refuse to play these kinds of lists, they stink of cheese, but I understand that at tournaments you can’t really choose who you want to fight... 

Try not to bring Bloodreavers, it looks like this guy isn’t trying to Alpha Strike, so screens aren’t extremely important. Flesh hounds are a good alternative though

Judgements would be amazing here. Dealing lots of mortal wounds, and the wrath axe can seriously  debuff those stoopid ballista 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Kaz

[Kaz]

Also! I’m gonna try out a battleshock bomb just for giggles

probably reapers of Vengeance, with bleeding icon and aspiring Deathbringer wearing skull helm, bring Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage with Aspect of death, then heavy focus on Daemons, with maybe some mortal battleline for a fast army that uses battleshock to wipe out enemies? Maybe bring TWO INSENSATE RAGESS? Just buff them up, deal as much AOE damage as possible, spread out the battleshock debuffs and watch them run like nuts; that’d be pretty funny 

granted, can be ignored with inspiring presence, buuuut if the whole army is suffering from it then it’s going to eat A LOT of CPs

[Killax]

3 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Also! I’m gonna try out a battleshock bomb just for giggles

probably reapers of Vengeance, with bleeding icon and aspiring Deathbringer wearing skull helm, bring Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage with Aspect of death, then heavy focus on Daemons, with maybe some mortal battleline for a fast army that uses battleshock to wipe out enemies? Maybe bring TWO INSENSATE RAGESS? Just buff them up, deal as much AOE damage as possible, spread out the battleshock debuffs and watch them run like nuts; that’d be pretty funny 

granted, can be ignored with inspiring presence, buuuut if the whole army is suffering from it then it’s going to eat A LOT of CPs

I'd say a Tyrants of Blood with one of each flying thirster would suit this kind of match. Which would basically be decided in the early turns too hahaha. 

Blend it with a buffed unit of 6 Skullcrushers for the tarpit and I think you can get something silly  

[Impa]

1 hour ago, Battlefury said:

May I ask who of the here present Ladies & Gentlemen is playing competetively on tournaments?

I would like to ask, what we can do against that list:

1 Lord Arcanum
1 Lord Relictor
1 Lord Castellant
1 Knight Venator
1 Lord Ordinator

10 Sequitors
10 Sequitors
5 Evocators
3 Evocators on Dracolines

1 Celestar ballista
1 Celestar Ballista
1 Celestar Ballista

1 Balewind Vortex


My experience so far:

No chance, no matter what I take, how I position, how I move, what I focus and how I buff my units.
He straight up batteres everything to dust, before I manage to get to melee. Even when i got turn one. Even when I let him come first and engaged him turn 2, or even turn 3.
When I chaff him in combat, his units just won't be there very long, as the Sequitors destroy everything easily.
He killed 2 of 3 Bloodthirsters straight up, before they went anywhere. Hiding his Ballistas in cover with 2+ save, buffed by the Ordinator.

I just feels like, I am massively handicaped, because I can not get into melee with him as fast as I would need to. When I arrived, my key heroes where already done. Couldn't hold the "wholly within" bubble buffs.
He then just deepstriked his units in my flanks, or behind me. That was basically it. Not getting tabled within 4 turns was the best I could do.

Any suggestions?
As it is suggested, the book semms to be pretty solid now. So we should have the right tool to deal with those lists.

this is exactly the kinds of lists i'm up against every time... Except they use 15 evocators and deep strike them behind me EVERY time! so a screen is needed... Just to protect priests/secrator for a turn or two..  Bloodthirster mortal wounds/rend is the only tool i feel we have.  Our rend on other units just isn't there.. even if you swarm 10 sequidors with your 30 bloodletters, they just have so many friggin saves!!! Even with the odds in my favor with my Blood warrior chaff or blood letter bombs getting 15+ wounds through, half get saved, then they just hammer back! its just insane... Then your slaughterpriests and bloodsecrator are left open while your main force is taking objectives.. My bloodthirsters are literally the only hammer with rend that can do anything! Wrathmongers +1 attack to units is nice, but man! The sequitors just again have so many save rolls from their heroes. and if you kill a unit, BOOP oh look i summoned it back! haha its frustrating, but it makes you a better player tactically. But i agree with you it just feels like we have such a handycap! the one thing i will say though, the wrath axe is literally a game changer. if you can get it off, and if your blood thirster is in combat and not ready to die, and if your blood warriors are holding their own and if your bloodletters are NOT crumbling to pieces and if your bloodsecrator and slaughterpriests aren't swarmed by evocators! Hey you may stand a chance LMAO! Oh and if you go Tyrants of blood and your buddy is like hmmmmmm i'll just take my ranged units instead of my silly sequitors and deep strike you yet again with evocators in your back line and plink you off with bows and such. That's just how stormcast is... I will say though that the 4+ mortal wound lighting from evocators is just the cheesiest cheese ball thing i have ever seen.. i hope they take that down a notch. i'm fine with dealing with endless sequitors and ranged attacks and all that nonsense. but man they have so many tools in the tool box! anyways, best of luck. i have won games against these lists. But you have to WORK for it! The wrath axe debuff/MW, slaughterpriest blood boil MW is essential aswell as our Bloodthirster IR getting his carnage rolls off can turn the tables in a single round. 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Impa

[Zamik]

23 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

He looks very vulnerable to mortal wounds. I'm curious how the Lord-Castellant is increasing the save of the Ballistas when he can target only one unit (most likely Sequitors) with his +1 save ability. Judgments would help here, especially the Wrath Axe, Sequitors having to deal with a -1 to hit aren't exactly happy.

 

The Ballistas (Ballistae?) get +2 bonus in cover in the shooting phase.

Yeah, I really want them to become more expensive SOON

[Easytyger]

2 hours ago, Forrix said:

I hadn't noticed that but Unfettered Fury is a nice counter to Gristlegore. Combined with the Tyrants of Blood/Halo of Blood combo I think Khorne, or at least that list, might do pretty well on the tournament scene.

Edit: or Using the 6 inch pile in with reapers of vengeance double pile in to get quasi Gristlegore ourselves but with multiple units (assuming we have the command points, that is going to take a lot).

Note that Unfettered CA does not meaningfully interact with Tyrants ability as for Tyrants to cascade Thirsters need to be within 3’’ of enemy and have not fought yet. Unfettered CA does not change the requirement of starting within 3’’. 

[AresX8]

I also just noticed that Sequitors re-roll their saves only in the combat phase.... I like the idea of the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster's Bloodflail being shot at them :). Do it under Wrathmongers too!

[Battlefury]

Thank you for your ideas.

It seems a little, that the Blood boils down to Tyrants of Blood.

@Killax What I basically own is massively reliant on non demonic units. For several games I had to lend units.
I have already noticed, that my mortal units are lack lusters, so I would have to buy demons I guess. Buggs me kind of...tbh.

The 3 Thirsters went straight up shred to pieced by deepstriking Ballistas on2 edges of the map and Evocators coming in.
Sequitors came from the front, but I didn't go for those. The Ballistas would be my target for some cheap units like Reavers, at least that was the plan in one of the games. I incrased the "chaffiness" by using Blood Warriors to lock the Ballistas in place, but that spread shot is a party pooper. Rend 2, wtf?!? After they came in, my Thirster where kind of in the middle of the map, as I had begun the game. They couldn't come up with the 10" move and then charge the Evocators. Distance was like 20" at that moment. So he then shot my thirsters, charged them with Evocators and Sequitors. Although I didn't bubble my units up, he just had enough power to wipe like 50% of my units including 2 Thirsters. Those Sequitor Hammers with Rend 1 and 2 Damage are just totally cheese. And then they reroll their hits, because fuc* you, that's why...we can load our weapons.

The lack of real damage made it kind of impossible to straight up take somewhat out, even when buffed properly. I made a lot of A, but he just saves it... .
Stormcast games are a competition called "how many 3s can you roll?". Thats absolutely broing.

@KazAgreed! Reavers where just...elt's just not talk about them. I did buff the Warriors though, but Rend 2 by ballistas in even then not funny. The Sequitors just batter with so much 2 DMG weapons... . The buff did kind of help to hold them in melee for 3 turn in the optimal way. The problem was then, that the Damagedealers, the Thirsters where already done or hit, that they didn't make that much damage, because of the table stats. I have to admit, that the random damage with the  Thirsters really sucks. It is not reliable enough. The MW output of the IR is pretty neat, but relys on a 16% to have 6s to roll. And when he was krippled within the table stats, it wasn't really that good anymore.
They did damage, but most of the time where wounded already with like 6 to 9 wounds, as they appeared in battle.

Don't know why, but Blood Letters didn't bother him too. Flesh Hounds where no match due to those "reroll just anything you like" buffs they have.

@ImpaYou're exactly right. The army is absolutely still reliant of the "Khorne wonderland" mechanic, where everything has to work completely like a clockwerk. If some buffs won't be applied...thats ******. Buffs and even more buffs lead to a little oddity, that I noticed. The enemy can easily choose whom to target and literally turn the army to uselessness within 2 turns. That doesn't only happen against SE.
The judgements are good, but also unreliable. The casting value of the Axe is little tricky sometimes, and the Random damage really handycaps it imo. The rolling, if the judement will stay is a little random too. Don't know if I really like it, but I would not rely on those judgements. The aftermath of the judgements is, that if I take them, I would need the altar, letting the Priests reroll. That's ok, but makes the army static, as they have to stay wholly within 8" of that. Can't get buffs done with them then. That's a choise I don't want to make, tbh.


And now the interesting part. At the local tournamt at saturday, I played my BoC army.
It was reliantly planned on a simple strategy, that totally worked! I have won the tournament and I have beaten that cheesy Stormcast list!
I was thinking, why I could manage to do that there, but now with Khorne.

The only conclusion I have is, it is the overall army design. BoC really looks great made in comparison. But I want to be good with Khorne too!

[Smooth criminal]

15 hours ago, Broken Netcode said:

Things im still unsure on:

-Where the Skullshard Mantle should go?

-Should I replace the Hounds with 2x10 Bloodletters, despite the Hounds being great giving me chances to dispel and being good, fast chaff clearance?

-Dealing with en masse missile attacks. Im getting a feeling that its the main weakness of the list and I cant quite seem to find a way to reduce it other than what ive done already with focusing on making the list as fast as possible.

What do you guys think? I personally feel quite happy with this list and dont feel there is a need for massive changes. Either way, let me know!

It can only go on the non-character demon since it's a gift and your thirster already has an artifact.

Hounds are strictly better than letters in small units until letters hit 20+ dudes bonus. More attacks, faster, can unbind.

I don't think demons can deal with significant ranged presence.  Maybe consider the "can't shoot me" realm artifact on thirster.  2+ crushers is as best as you can do against shooting and if it doesn't work then nothing works.