AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[KhorneySteve]

Oh wow that's an insane amount of damage, I'm picking Skarbrand up end of this week so this is great news! 

[Warfiend]

If you have the Tyrants of Blood  battalion and use the Reapers of vengeance  slaughterhost and have three command points it would be possible to charge and attack twice with three bloodthirsters before the enemy can do anything.  Take one Bloodthirster of insensate rage and give it Ar’gath, the King of Blades to give it 2+ 2+ versus heroes, this to greatly increase the chance of exploding nearby units 

What I did notice though is that the battalion uses the BLOODTHIRSTERS keyword while the bloodthirsters and skarrband themselves have BLOODTHIRSTER in their warscroll missing the S, technically RAW there are no units in the game that can go in that battalion. 

[MOMUS]

9 hours ago, Battlefury said:

I see an issue with the Blood Tyrants list.

It is very strong and viable to destroy a lot os stuff.
But with the intention to play objective based scenarios, that list is absolutely not fitting.

I also think, that the Bloodthirsters are not sooooo good, but that's maybe just my opinion.

Might be a thing to concider, that we shall not rely on those 3 Bloodthirsters so much.

I see the way to play it as using the bloodthirsters to smash into the enemy while dropping off summoned units of whatever to hold the objectives while the thirsters roll up the flank. 

Rest of the list is tithe generation/chaff/home objective holder.

[Galdenistal]

Played my first 1000 point game last night with the new book, with the following list:

 

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount

Bloodsecrator (Banner Of Wrath)

Bloodstoker

Slaughterpriest (Killing Frenzy)

 

10 Blood Reavers

10 Blood Reavers

5 Chaos Knights

5 Wrathmongers

1 Gorebeast Chariot

Skull Alter

  

My take away’s were that the Chaos Knights are legit damage with high movement (With Chaos Lords command ability + whipped + killing frenzy).

Using Blood Tithe to move in the hero phase is super useful when you have a unit that does bonus damage on the charge, I think all armies should take a charging unit to abuse this.

Banner Of Wrath is strong, just charge the Bloodsecrator to the front line and start chipping mortal wounds in both combat phases per battleround.

Positioning the Bloodsecrator for 16” wholly within is hard, you really need to commit him to an area rather than just sticking him in the middle and hoping for the best, thinking about trying Gore Pilgrims in a bigger game.

Only 1 Slaughterpriest per 1000 points felt a bit low as he was super useful, I’d try to squeeze in another 1 next game.

The Chaos Lord being both a mortal and a daemon gives him tons of choice in traits and artifacts.

Sticking to MSU type lists offsets our lack of battleshock immunity as well as boosting Blood Tithe, can’t see myself taking anything other than MSU (maybe 1 large unit in a test game).

[MOMUS]

On a different note the new flesh hound models are really nice. With a bit of planning and careful cutting you can swap the heads between the hounds making the units look different.

 

@Galdenistal I prefer the MSU style of play, hate seeing games of 2x30 blobs vs 2x30 blobs. Reminds me of the start of 8th ed where everyone just took 30 dudes and mindrazor. 

[Xasz]

I think people forgot how deathstars operate, probably because they've never been such a big thing in AoS compared to 40k (due to some key rules being amiss)... it seems all we currently know is hordes and strictly going for points.

With a deathstar, you smash the most important aspect of your opponents list and then either go for the next big target to completely cripple him or if possible (like the Space Wolves, Dark Angel deathstar from 40k back in the day) split the deathstar and go for his troop choices/scoring units. Picking up the scraps, going for points yourself or straight up tabling him. Doesn't always work, sometimes your important units get toasted before they reach their target or are in a bad position. Potentially resulting in a horrible loss... 

It is usually a "pubstomp" setup which gets rather tricky to play when pitted against experiences players. (... and it's obivously not for everyone)

[MOMUS]

20 minutes ago, Xasz said:

I think people forgot how deathstars operate, probably because they've never been such a big thing in AoS compared to 40k (due to some key rules being amiss)... it seems all we currently know is hordes and strictly going for points.

With a deathstar, you smash the most important aspect of your opponents list and then either go for the next big target to completely cripple him or if possible (like the Space Wolves, Dark Angel deathstar from 40k back in the day) split the deathstar and go for his troop choices/scoring units. Picking up the scraps, going for points yourself or straight up tabling him. Doesn't always work, sometimes your important units get toasted before they reach their target or are in a bad position. Potentially resulting in a horrible loss... 

It is usually a "pubstomp" setup which gets rather tricky to play when pitted against experiences players. (... and it's obivously not for everyone)

Being able to cripple an enemy in two moves is a lot harder nowadays. BoK really needs speed and reach, the summoning mechanic helps mitigate the reach problem.

The prevelance of death armies means, quite often your enemy can outmanoeuvre, out summon and res its most powerful unit instantly the next turn .

[Battlefury]

@XaszAbsolutely agreed!

If we intend to beatstick the enemie's army to dust, before he could do anything, the Skarbrand Tyrants combo is probably the best choice in the book yet. Maybe even in the entire game.

That list would be a "one hit wonder", as it would just work against players, that didn't see that coming. I can imagine, that the strategy doesn't work anymore, as someone already knows, what will come.

In one of my tournaments, when I played Khorne with the previous book, I had an army, that was kind of like that:

1 Skullgrinder ( General, Slaughterborn, Mark of the Destroyer )
1 Bloodsecrator ( Banner of Wrath, or Rage? )
2 Slaughterpriests ( Bronze Flesh and Killing Frenzy )

10 Blood Warriors ( Dual Wield )

10 Blood Warriors ( Dual Wield )

10 Blood Warriors ( Dual Wield )

5 Wrathmongers

It was a 1000 point tournament.
The plan was simple:

Go fstraight for the objectives and stay there. I pretty much buffed one unit at a time with my priests, that gave the BWs a save of 3+ and +1 to hit.
I keeped the Wrathmongers and the Skullgrinder in the backline, to see where the enemy moves his Monsters and the characters. Then I would go straight for those.

The thing was here, that my enemy didn't want to go for any of my units, as they where just too nifty and trendy ( basically e could just got beaten back over and over again ).
What then happened was, that his units kind of "danced" around my units, as he was not willing to engage them. With the priests I pulled some of his units out, and he retreated them sometimees. The Wrathmongers didn't give any possible way for his Monster. When he recognized, that he actually has to come, I had already enough victory points, that it kind of didn't matter.

That list was build to have a good mix, that was clearly build with the motto "You hit me? Gonna hit you back...or even better...HIT YOURSELF! )


The new Tyrants list would not really grant that. It really would come down to a match of praying, that the enemy doesn't know that strategy already.


So what do I want to say?

Do we maybe have any other reliably list, that could give the enemy time to think?
As it goes for the Wrathmongers now...they I would just not take them again. That +1A really isn't worth the 140 points imo.

[Xasz]

Personally, I really enjoy playing deathstars and I am looking forward to play the tyrant lists.

Due to lack of daemons I'll probably roll with this for a while (which might actually be decent):

Spoiler

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Manticore (250)
- General
- Blade & Lance
- Trait: Hew the Foe 
- Artefact: Dimensional Blade 
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
- 1x Spinecleavers
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Bloodmad Warband (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
 

I kinda want to test Valkia, which would result into a slight variation:

- 10 Bloodreavers, 1 Priest, 

+ Valkia, Judgement Axe

[Warbossironteef]

4 hours ago, MOMUS said:

I see the way to play it as using the bloodthirsters to smash into the enemy while dropping off summoned units of whatever to hold the objectives while the thirsters roll up the flank. 

Rest of the list is tithe generation/chaff/home objective holder.

I think there are actually a lot of different ways to play Tyrants of Blood lists. If you go WoK BT, BT of Insenate Rage, BT of Insenate Rage, you still get 3 very strong beatsticks and have room to build.

After that you still have enough points to put a ton of wounds on the board. I think 10x Skullreapers pair really well with Tyrants lists because they are self sufficient. They are fearless, already hit on 3+ 3+. reroll 1's and have a good armor save. They are the perfect unit to complement the Tyrants. 

Maybe the most expensive version 4 BTs or with Skarbrand is better, but if you are looking for a more well rounded list, where you don't have to max out the points on BTs , there are options for you.

2k:

Wrath

BT of Rage

BT of Rage

Slaughter Priest

Slaughter Priest

4x10 Reavers

10x Skullreapers

5xWrathmongers

Tyrants 

That's 97 wounds of Mortals who can hold objectives and fight other chaff.

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Warbossironteef

[Warbossironteef]

20 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Personally, I really enjoy playing deathstars and I am looking forward to play the tyrant lists.

Due to lack of daemons I'll probably roll with this for a while (which might actually be decent):

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: The Goretide
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Manticore (250)
- General
- Blade & Lance
- Trait: Hew the Foe 
- Artefact: Dimensional Blade 
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: Thronebreaker's Torc 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180)
- Goreslick Blades
- 1x Spinecleavers
5 x Wrathmongers (140)

Battalions
Bloodmad Warband (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
 

I kinda want to test Valkia, which would result into a slight variation:

- 10 Bloodreavers, 1 Priest, 

+ Valkia, Judgement Axe

I like your list. You will have to see what works for you, but I would maybe consider dropping down 1 or 2 of your Blood Warrior units to 5, dropping 1 Reaver unit and upping either your Skullreapers or Wrathmongers to 10. Skullreapers, IMO, are better than Bloodwarriors, even though they are more expensive, and Wrathmongers have 2inch range, so it's easier for groups of 10 to all get into combat. Just my opinion though.

[Xasz]

Just now, Warbossironteef said:

I like your list. You will have to see what works for you, but I would maybe consider dropping down 1 or 2 of your Blood Warrior units to 5, dropping 1 Reaver unit and upping either your Skullreapers or Wrathmongers to 10. Skullreapers, IMO, are better than Bloodwarriors, even though they are more expensive, and Wrathmongers have 2inch range, so it's easier for groups of 10 to all get into combat. Just my opinion though.

Bloodmad Warband requires exactly 3 units of Blood Warriors.

[Warbossironteef]

Yeah I meant dropping 1 or 2 of your 10 man units to 5. Sorry if my wording was confusing.

[Charleston]

What is your opinion on a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage with the Reapers of Vengence Trait and the Angarth-Blade-Thingy? Hitting on a 2+ with one-rerolls seems to push this guy pretty much. Fightning twice allows to wreck something and also AOE-MW´s. Yes, it requires an battalion for the second artifact beside the obligatory one, but may be worth it.

 

Edit: Nevermind. The Artifact only affects heroes as target

Edited March 28, 2019 by Charleston

[Galdenistal]

Another thing I found using the new book and mostly mortal lists, is that the enemy has a hard time deciding what they need to kill first, its no longer a game of "Kill the Bloodsecrator". I even found the Bloodstoker getting some early heat due to his new buff.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Galdenistal
typo

[AresX8]

@fwlr

I'm a bit late on these pics but here's how I magnetized my Bloodthirster's wings, hope this helps!

[fwlr]

That looks v good, how did you do it exactly? Has he got magnets in the arms as well?

[AresX8]

11 minutes ago, fwlr said:

That looks v good, how did you do it exactly? Has he got magnets in the arms as well?

I put a dab of paint on the joints of the wings here to see where'd they line up on the back of the torso, then did pilot holes with the tip of an exacto blade to allow my pin vice to drill in easily. I used 1/8" x 1/16" neodymium magnets, N52's because those are the strongest.

 

The arms were much much harder to do because I made it harder than it should have been. I used a lot of greenstuff and stretched it out across the holes where the arms would glue into. Once the greenstuffed cured, I pin vice drilled out in the middle of the greenstuff to glue in another 1/8" x 1/16" neodymium magnet. The same process was applied on the weapon arm itself.

Next time though, I'm magnetizing the weapons at the wrists rather than the arms.

[Warbossironteef]

*DELETE*

Edited March 28, 2019 by Warbossironteef

[Easytyger]

@Luke1705

I may be interpreting this wrong but I believe that Rejoice in Slaughter CA and the Tyrants of Blood ability aren’t quite as good together as I thought. 

For Tyrants of Blood to trigger the Bloodthirster needs to already be within 3’’ of the enemy and to not have fought yet. So even if you have used Rejoice in Slaughter if they weren’t already within 3’’ then you would not be able to trigger the Tyrants ability on BTs that are 3’’ to 6’’ away to fight immediately after he first BT fights. 

[Impa]

33 minutes ago, Easytyger said:

@Luke1705

I may be interpreting this wrong but I believe that Rejoice in Slaughter CA and the Tyrants of Blood ability aren’t quite as good together as I thought. 

For Tyrants of Blood to trigger the Bloodthirster needs to already be within 3’’ of the enemy and to not have fought yet. So even if you have used Rejoice in Slaughter if they weren’t already within 3’’ then you would not be able to trigger the Tyrants ability on BTs that are 3’’ to 6’’ away to fight immediately after he first BT fights. 

rejoice in slaughter is used at the beginning of the combat phase. So any unit your thirsters are 3-6" away from (and wholly within 16 from unfetted BT) and if they have not yet fought in that combat phase they would trigger after your initial thirster making his atttacks. 

[Luke1705]

36 minutes ago, Easytyger said:

@Luke1705

I may be interpreting this wrong but I believe that Rejoice in Slaughter CA and the Tyrants of Blood ability aren’t quite as good together as I thought. 

For Tyrants of Blood to trigger the Bloodthirster needs to already be within 3’’ of the enemy and to not have fought yet. So even if you have used Rejoice in Slaughter if they weren’t already within 3’’ then you would not be able to trigger the Tyrants ability on BTs that are 3’’ to 6’’ away to fight immediately after he first BT fights. 

That’s correct but remember that if you’re not within 3” of a unit, then it cant fight either. It does matter when you’re cascading to pile on on unit with multiple bloodthirsters but it’s moot if each bloodthirster is hitting something different.

Really that command ability is less about getting the first wombo and more about allowing you to fall back and still “charge”

[Easytyger]

 

3 minutes ago, Luke1705 said:

That’s correct but remember that if you’re not within 3” of a unit, then it cant fight either. It does matter when you’re cascading to pile on on unit with multiple bloodthirsters but it’s moot if each bloodthirster is hitting something different.

Really that command ability is less about getting the first wombo and more about allowing you to fall back and still “charge”

Yes I mainly highlighting the lack of meaningful interaction with Tyrants ability. Yeah definitely still super useful though.

[Easytyger]

15 minutes ago, Impa said:

rejoice in slaughter is used at the beginning of the combat phase. So any unit your thirsters are 3-6" away from (and wholly within 16 from unfetted BT) and if they have not yet fought in that combat phase they would trigger after your initial thirster making his atttacks. 

For the Tyrants of Blood ability to activate the Bloodthirster needs to be within 3’’ of an enemy.

[Impa]

4 minutes ago, Easytyger said:

For the Tyrants of Blood ability to activate the Bloodthirster needs to be within 3’’ of an enemy.

Nope. its 6" if you've used your rejoice in slaughter command ability. it overrides the 3".. 

"daemon units wholly within 16" of that model are eligible to fight in that combat phase if they are 6" of an enemy unit instead of 3, and can  move an extra 3" when they pile in"

that's how i interpret it anyways. But im sure this will need to be FAQ to be certain.