AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[ChaosUndivided]

As far as Secrator goes wholly with 16 is not bad. It gets a lil tricky half way thru game when stuff is spred out but its still good coverage. He might not be in all my list but still solid.

With gorefist, Slaughter Priest, Judgments, and Reapers, the mortal half of army feels like a moryal wound factory. But that does rely on rolling at least average or better.

[Impa]

18 hours ago, Bululu said:

I dont really understand what you are trying to say, but i will explain what i think he is trying to say XD

 MOVEMENT

1. The enemy has something that attacks at the start of the combat phase (Fanatics, FEC item, etc)

2. You leave your BTs at 4''-6'' and nothing inside 3'' of the enemy units that fight at the start of the combat phase

 

START of the combat phase

1. You cast UF command that lets yours BTs be elegible for combat at 6'' and to pile in extra 3''

2. You cast reapers of vengance command if you think that you need to attack twice with something

3. Your oponent try to attack with the units that attackt at the start of the combat phase, he doesnt have any enemy at 3'' so this units cant be elected

 

NORMAL combat phase 

1. You choose  one of your BTs, pile in 6'' do the Bloodlord things to attack with rest of BTs, attack twice if needed with reaper of vengance command previously used

2. Your oponent select a unit to attack (might be the ones that couldnt attack on the start of the combat phase, but this one i have a doubt cause the items, etc says "this attacks on the start of the combat phase" so i dont know if they can still attack on normal combat phase)

 

 

some questions.

 

1- so even on your opponents turn i can use my command ability at the "start of the combat phase" regardless if it's mine or not, correct? I'm new to the game and i got into a discussion about command abilities and i was told i could only use them on "MY" combat phase.  And my argument was it says "the combat phase" so as i understand from this post i can in fact use my command abilities on my opponents turn. Taking advantage of the tyrants of blood etc to go first and attack twice if using reapers with my BT's

2 - I saw someone post a list using bloodlords and reapers of vengeance slaughterhost. Is this legal? Would you pick one ability, one command trait, one command ability, be forced to use both artefacts from the host? Your still capped at 2 arterfacts right?  As i understood you could choose more than one host to use one for mortals and one for daemons, not two for daemons then pick and choose the stuff you wanted (trait, ability, Command ability, artefact). 

3 - So start of opponent combat phase he has nothing to attack me with, but i cast my 6" attack modifier and i have an extra 3" pile in from unfetted, i can attack with my thirsters, but he cant attack back because he didnt have anything to attack in his combat phase? Even though its the normal combat phase and their are eligible units to attack me? 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Impa

[fwlr]

10 minutes ago, Impa said:

 I saw someone post a list using bloodlords and reapers of vengeance slaughterhost. Is this legal? Would you pick one ability, one command trait, one command ability, be forced to use both artefacts from the host? Your still capped at 2 arterfacts right?  As i understood you could choose more than one host to use one for mortals and one for daemons, not two for daemons then pick and choose the stuff you wanted (trait, ability, Command ability, artefact). 

I posted the list with both (in brackets) as I was undecided on which thing to use.

So no, you cannot pick and choose. It is across the whole army

Edited March 27, 2019 by fwlr

[Impa]

1 minute ago, fwlr said:

I posted the list with both (in brackets) as I was undecided on which thing to use.

So no, you cannot pick and choose. It is across the whole army

ok thanks, gotcha! 

[RuneBrush]

17 minutes ago, Impa said:

1- so even on your opponents turn i can use my command ability at the "start of the combat phase" regardless if it's mine or not, correct? I'm new to the game and i got into a discussion about command abilities and i was told i could only use them on "MY" combat phase.  And my argument was it says "the combat phase" so as i understand from this post i can in fact use my command abilities on my opponents turn. Taking advantage of the tyrants of blood etc to go first and attack twice if using reapers with my BT's

The actual command ability will state when it can be used - most will be "at the start of your xxx phase".  A good example to help demonstrate your point is the command ability "Inspiring Presence" - it can be used in any battleshock phase (it'd be pretty poor if you could only use it in your own phase).

20 minutes ago, Impa said:

2 - I saw someone post a list using bloodlords and reapers of vengeance slaughterhost. Is this legal? Would you pick one ability, one command trait, one command ability, be forced to use both artefacts from the host? Your still capped at 2 arterfacts right?  As i understood you could choose more than one host to use one for mortals and one for daemons, not two for daemons then pick and choose the stuff you wanted (trait, ability, Command ability, artefact). 

Slaughterhosts apply to the whole army - so you can pick one of the 4 available and that's it.  If you do then you must use the trait, ability and first artefact listed.  The only way to gain additional artefacts is to include a battalion

22 minutes ago, Impa said:

3 - So start of opponent combat phase he has nothing to attack me with, but i cast my 6" attack modifier and i have an extra 3" pile in from unfetted, i can attack with my thirsters, but he cant attack back because he didnt have anything to attack in his combat phase? Even though its the normal combat phase and their are eligible units to attack me? 

Your opponent can pile-in and attack with any units that are within 3" of one of your units if it's not already fought.  This means you have to be careful you don't accidentally "tap" additional units when using those super long pile-ins.  Equally you can use your pile-in to move a unit outside that 3" range (making sure you end up closer to the closest enemy unit - i.e. you basically shimmy round a model)

[Bululu]

18 minutes ago, Impa said:

some questions.

 

1- so even on your opponents turn i can use my command ability at the "start of the combat phase" regardless if it's mine or not, correct? I'm new to the game and i got into a discussion about command abilities and i was told i could only use them on "MY" combat phase.  And my argument was it says "the combat phase" so as i understand from this post i can in fact use my command abilities on my opponents turn. Taking advantage of the tyrants of blood etc to go first and attack twice if using reapers with my BT's

2 - I saw someone post a list using bloodlords and reapers of vengeance slaughterhost. Is this legal? Would you pick one ability, one command trait, one command ability, be forced to use both artefacts from the host? Your still capped at 2 arterfacts right?  As i understood you could choose more than one host to use one for mortals and one for daemons, not two for daemons then pick and choose the stuff you wanted (trait, ability, Command ability, artefact).  

3 - So start of opponent combat phase he has nothing to attack me with, but i cast my 6" attack modifier and i have an extra 3" pile in from unfetted, i can attack with my thirsters, but he cant attack back because he didnt have anything to attack in his combat phase? Even though its the normal combat phase and their are eligible units to attack me? 

 

1. In theory yes, in a real game if the enemy knows what your units can do i HIGHLY doubt they will leave any units at range 4''-6'' of your CP user, I mean yes ofc you can, but a normal player will negate it in most of the cases. Also you should notice that the player whos turn is on decides the order of things that happen on the same moment.

2.  Nope, this cant be done, the only way that you can have units from different slaughterhouse is if you select a model wich already have a slaughther house keyword on his warscroll (for example reaper army with khorgos khul wich has goretide)

3.  I think yes, ppl can counter attack you afterwards on the phase  as normal, whatever survives to the BT's onslaught

[Bululu]

Just now, RuneBrush said:

our opponent can pile-in and attack with any units that are within 3" of one of your units if it's not already fought.  This means you have to be careful you don't accidentally "tap" additional units when using those super long pile-ins.  Equally you can use your pile-in to move a unit outside that 3" range (making sure you end up closer to the closest enemy unit - i.e. you basically shimmy round a model) 

I want to add here that units can pile in even if they are not within 3'' if they charged on that turn, so count on that too

[Impa]

3 minutes ago, Bululu said:

1. In theory yes, in a real game if the enemy knows what your units can do i HIGHLY doubt they will leave any units at range 4''-6'' of your CP user, I mean yes ofc you can, but a normal player will negate it in most of the cases. Also you should notice that the player whos turn is on decides the order of things that happen on the same moment.

2.  Nope, this cant be done, the only way that you can have units from different slaughterhouse is if you select a model wich already have a slaughther house keyword on his warscroll (for example reaper army with khorgos khul wich has goretide)

3.  I think yes, ppl can counter attack you afterwards on the phase  as normal, whatever survives to the BT's onslaught

ok great! i just wanted to be clear. cheers

[Impa]

9 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

The actual command ability will state when it can be used - most will be "at the start of your xxx phase".  A good example to help demonstrate your point is the command ability "Inspiring Presence" - it can be used in any battleshock phase (it'd be pretty poor if you could only use it in your own phase).

Slaughterhosts apply to the whole army - so you can pick one of the 4 available and that's it.  If you do then you must use the trait, ability and first artefact listed.  The only way to gain additional artefacts is to include a battalion

Your opponent can pile-in and attack with any units that are within 3" of one of your units if it's not already fought.  This means you have to be careful you don't accidentally "tap" additional units when using those super long pile-ins.  Equally you can use your pile-in to move a unit outside that 3" range (making sure you end up closer to the closest enemy unit - i.e. you

 

ok thanks! so when you say " only way to gain additional artefacts is to include a battalion" So your saying off the bat you get one (If i chose a slaughterhost i have to take the one provided) then i add a battalion to get the second of my choice. i was under the impression you can just get two per army, or are you stating you can potentially get a third from a battalion? Sorry again im new to the game and i've done my best to read as much content as possible but its sometimes great to just get a direct answer from you more experienced players. thanks again. 

[Bululu]

Just now, Impa said:

ok thanks! so when you say " only way to gain additional artefacts is to include a battalion" So your saying off the bat you get one (If i chose a slaughterhost i have to take the one provided) then i add a battalion to get the second of my choice. i was under the impression you can just get two per army, or are you stating you can potentially get a third from a battalion? Sorry again im new to the game and i've done my best to read as much content as possible but its sometimes great to just get a direct answer from you more experienced players. thanks again. 

Yes, you get 1 per army and 0 Command Points, if you pay have the requeriments and pay a batallion price you get 1 extra artifact and 1 extra CP,  and then you can buy extra CP at the cost of 50 points each

[Impa]

5 minutes ago, Bululu said:

Yes, you get 1 per army and 0 Command Points, if you pay have the requeriments and pay a batallion price you get 1 extra artifact and 1 extra CP,  and then you can buy extra CP at the cost of 50 points each

ok this is great to know!!  thank you! 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Impa

[Impa]

Question about Bloodthirster Insensate Rage. Outrageous carnage - if the unmodifed wound roll for an attack made by this model is 6, each enemy unit within 8" of this model suffer the number of mortal wounds shown on the damage table above, in addition to any normal damage. 

So does that mean the normal damage also splashes to any unit within 8"? or does the normal damage hit the unit that was targeted and the mortal wounds splash to target unit and any unit in 8"? Asking for a friend  

[MOMUS]

From the wording I think it is possible to have two slaughter hosts.

eg 2000pts army

1000pts of daemons, bloodlords

1000pts of mortals, goretide

Seems a bit odd that to have a mechanic that would hamstring a portion of your army as the slaughterhost abilities are defined as mortal or daemon. 

[AresX8]

45 minutes ago, Impa said:

Question about Bloodthirster Insensate Rage. Outrageous carnage - if the unmodifed wound roll for an attack made by this model is 6, each enemy unit within 8" of this model suffer the number of mortal wounds shown on the damage table above, in addition to any normal damage. 

So does that mean the normal damage also splashes to any unit within 8"? or does the normal damage hit the unit that was targeted and the mortal wounds splash to target unit and any unit in 8"? Asking for a friend  

The second question is the correct answer. The mortal wounds also affect the unit that the Bloodthirster attacked.

[Impa]

12 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

The second question is the correct answer. The mortal wounds also affect the unit that the Bloodthirster attacked.

great thanks! that would be crazy if the normal damage also splashed to the other units in range. yikes. 

[Zamik]

46 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

From the wording I think it is possible to have two slaughter hosts.

eg 2000pts army

1000pts of daemons, bloodlords

1000pts of mortals, goretide

Seems a bit odd that to have a mechanic that would hamstring a portion of your army as the slaughterhost abilities are defined as mortal or daemon. 

The book says, "If your army is a KHORNE army, you can give it a Slaughterhost keyword." I think the wording about "different slaughterhost keyword" is meant for characters such as Khorghos Khul and the Shadespire warbands. They can be in a Skullfiend Tribe army, but they can't get that keyword and thus can't take advantage of the abilities.

[MOMUS]

58 minutes ago, Zamik said:

The book says, "If your army is a KHORNE army, you can give it a Slaughterhost keyword." I think the wording about "different slaughterhost keyword" is meant for characters such as Khorghos Khul and the Shadespire warbands. They can be in a Skullfiend Tribe army, but they can't get that keyword and thus can't take advantage of the abilities.

That doesn’t seem right, would be kinda cool to have an army made of two different tribes come together to attack a bigger threat. Or a tribe summoning in a particular daemon host to aid them in a forthcoming battle.

more thematic then wrathmongers giving a cannon an extra shot cuz reasons anyway... 

[andysonic1]

1 hour ago, MOMUS said:

That doesn’t seem right, would be kinda cool to have an army made of two different tribes come together to attack a bigger threat. Or a tribe summoning in a particular daemon host to aid them in a forthcoming battle.

more thematic then wrathmongers giving a cannon an extra shot cuz reasons anyway... 

It would be kinda cool but it isn't what the rules say. The rules make exceptions for units that have Slaughterhost keywords built into them so you can still take them. It doesn't let you take two for your army.

[Battlefury]

I see an issue with the Blood Tyrants list.

It is very strong and viable to destroy a lot os stuff.
But with the intention to play objective based scenarios, that list is absolutely not fitting.

I also think, that the Bloodthirsters are not sooooo good, but that's maybe just my opinion.

Might be a thing to concider, that we shall not rely on those 3 Bloodthirsters so much.

[Luke1705]

24 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

I see an issue with the Blood Tyrants list.

It is very strong and viable to destroy a lot os stuff.
But with the intention to play objective based scenarios, that list is absolutely not fitting.

I also think, that the Bloodthirsters are not sooooo good, but that's maybe just my opinion.

Might be a thing to concider, that we shall not rely on those 3 Bloodthirsters so much.

Tyrants of blood isn’t an objective game list no sir-ee

It’s a “table your opponent and score objectives after they’re dead” list

Personally I think Khorne approves of this tactic but it may not be for all. I think you’re right that solo bloodthirsters really don’t do a crazy amount of damage which is why I am on (and perhaps the only one on) the reapers of vengeance train.

[Luke1705]

4 hours ago, MOMUS said:

That doesn’t seem right, would be kinda cool to have an army made of two different tribes come together to attack a bigger threat. Or a tribe summoning in a particular daemon host to aid them in a forthcoming battle.

more thematic then wrathmongers giving a cannon an extra shot cuz reasons anyway... 

Zamik is correct

[Luke1705]

8 hours ago, Bululu said:

I want to add here that units can pile in even if they are not within 3'' if they charged on that turn, so count on that too

Yep that is definitely good for us to remember since there will be turns that tyrants just wombos something outside of 3” but it might still be within 5” (3” pile + 2” reach). I actually had to do a 7.5” pile + reach for a combat on Sunday because so many things died when a different bloodthirster activated. Thank goodness for the rejoice in slaughter command ability

Edited March 27, 2019 by Luke1705

[fwlr]

35 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

I see an issue with the Blood Tyrants list.

It is very strong and viable to destroy a lot os stuff.
But with the intention to play objective based scenarios, that list is absolutely not fitting.

I also think, that the Bloodthirsters are not sooooo good, but that's maybe just my opinion.

Might be a thing to concider, that we shall not rely on those 3 Bloodthirsters so much.

If the triple bloodthirster isn't our best option, then really what is? It's 3 ridiculous hammers that are going to kill what they charge, I mean getting up to 72 MW from skarbrand when there are mongers OR a secrator in reapers, or 96 with both. That's alongside up to 22 3dmg attacks.

No we can't hold objectives, but if they're relying on a unit we have 3 to kill them with. Even a sequitor or evocator wall is just getting straight smashed by that. As Luke said, if they have nothing left to hold objectives with then the battleline choices in the triple wombo combo can capitalise. In my list, theres a fat block of 40 fearless bloodreavers. That's holding the objective they want to.

However I admit you make a very good point that it is pretty weak to hold objectives

[KhorneySteve]

19 minutes ago, fwlr said:

If the triple bloodthirster isn't our best option, then really what is? It's 3 ridiculous hammers that are going to kill what they charge, I mean getting up to 72 MW from skarbrand when there are mongers OR a secrator in reapers, or 96 with both. That's alongside up to 22 3dmg attacks.

No we can't hold objectives, but if they're relying on a unit we have 3 to kill them with. Even a sequitor or evocator wall is just getting straight smashed by that. As Luke said, if they have nothing left to hold objectives with then the battleline choices in the triple wombo combo can capitalise. In my list, theres a fat block of 40 fearless bloodreavers. That's holding the objective they want to.

However I admit you make a very good point that it is pretty weak to hold objectives

Probably being slow here but how have you got Skarbrand dealing that much damage? 

Edited March 27, 2019 by KhorneySteve

[fwlr]

5 minutes ago, KhorneySteve said:

Probably being slow here but how have you got Skarbrand dealing that much damage? 

So: t2 he's not fought last round, auto 8 mortals (on a 6 is 16) + 9 attacks

Wrathmongers+secrator giving +2 attacks, buffing him to 3 carnage goes as well as 11 slaughter attacks

He gets given fight twice from reapers + reroll hits from the WoKBT+ (unneeded but useful +1 to hit from priest, although this should be on the insensate)

Max, that's (16x3)x2 which is 96 mortals. On average it's going to be (8x6)+8(because average of one 6 in 6 rolls) which is 56 MW.

That's leaving out slaughter as well, which is total 22 attacks hitting on best case 3's rerolling all For an average of ~19.5 hits, wounding on 3s for an average of 13 wounds. So 39 dmg from there with no save as well as it is minus 2, if they have a 4+ it would be ~2 saves so 33 dmg, that's on average. 3+ pushes it down to 24-27 dmg. Which is still a lot.

So average per fight phase is about 80-95 damage depending on save. At a max, it's 162 damage. 

I don't need to say that's a lot. Now obviously this is best case so it's not really reflecting in game scenarios, obv this is only mathhammer. But whatever you charge is DEADIFIED. Then there's another 2 thirsters at other targets to give the enemy a headache too.