AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[MOMUS]

15 minutes ago, Jaehaerys said:

For those of you questioning the wrathcannon thing. Go and watch the Wednesday stream with Ben J. He confirms it was intended.

I wouldn’t say he’s infallible. 

Aside from that l, is it actually worth taking the wrath mongers to give a skull cannon and extra shot?

Would you even take a skull cannon if it had two shots as standard?

I would really like to include it as it gives the army some massively needed reach, ability to kill weak or weakened characters earning tithe at range, a little bit of tactical flexibility, but still I would say it’s still overcosted and the model is the ugliest thing since the razorgor. 

[Jaehaerys]

20 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

I wouldn’t say he’s infallible. 

Aside from that l, is it actually worth taking the wrath mongers to give a skull cannon and extra shot?

Would you even take a skull cannon if it had two shots as standard?

I would really like to include it as it gives the army some massively needed reach, ability to kill weak or weakened characters earning tithe at range, a little bit of tactical flexibility, but still I would say it’s still overcosted and the model is the ugliest thing since the razorgor. 

Lol I was just saying it was confirmed on stream which is more reliable than the two and fro on here.  I have not played cannon with the new book so can't comment o  rest.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Jaehaerys

[Easytyger]

1 hour ago, Luke1705 said:

More than just redundancy. If I’m playing against a triple or quadruple bloodthirster list, I have a few tactical options vs the always go first guy when it’s my turn.

1) Have something of mine that can always go first and charge in guns blazing

2) Go in guns blazing (hopefully with multiple units) even if I don’t have the ability to fight before the special thirster

3) Ignore him, don’t charge him, and kill the rest of the army

3 is by far the most predominant tactic if you can’t do 1. If your thirster isn’t in combat, you can’t activate him first.

So a couple ways to prevent the opponent from taking tactic #3:

+ have a second thirster who can fight first sometimes (blood hungerer)

+ take advantage of the unfettered fury or exalted thirster’s “you don’t get to fall back from me” ability to ensure that something has to be in combat with you (assuming that that is your always go first thirster)

 

But also redundancy is good as stuff does die

Thank you this makes a lot of sense.

[Mikeymajq]

I feel it makes the cannons more reliable, I usually have one and it either does nothing all game or suddenly spikes its damage. It always does better if it can support in close combat. If you're bringing both WM and a cannon unit you might as well park the cannons near the WM's. It won't be amazing but it'll make them good. 

Last game I used it it only hit once in 5 turns and then it failed to wound. Granted it never shot at a unit with 10 or more, but 3+ 3+ should still go through at least once

And I might add the only reason I have one is because of the Start collecting and the throne-thingie is total garbage (sadly that didn't change. The ability it got is at least something, but it's not good). 

[Grimrock]

48 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

Aside from that l, is it actually worth taking the wrath mongers to give a skull cannon and extra shot?

Would you even take a skull cannon if it had two shots as standard?

I would really like to include it as it gives the army some massively needed reach, ability to kill weak or weakened characters earning tithe at range, a little bit of tactical flexibility, but still I would say it’s still overcosted and the model is the ugliest thing since the razorgor. 

Well I'll probably be taking at least one unit of wrathmongers in every list so I don't really need to factor them into the cost. I'd say including 2 in the backline is going to be worth it against the majority of armies even if they're just used to clear out screening units. 

Also, I don't have my book on me. Does anyone know if they can still be taken as multiple models in a single unit? The wording on their rule says if any attacks from the UNIT kill any models then the unit gets to shoot, so having two in one unit almost guarantees that those cannons will get to fire. 

[Darksteve]

1 hour ago, MOMUS said:

I wouldn’t say he’s infallible. 

Aside from that l, is it actually worth taking the wrath mongers to give a skull cannon and extra shot?

Would you even take a skull cannon if it had two shots as standard?

I would really like to include it as it gives the army some massively needed reach, ability to kill weak or weakened characters earning tithe at range, a little bit of tactical flexibility, but still I would say it’s still overcosted and the model is the ugliest thing since the razorgor. 

I played a list at 1k with 2 cannons in a unit with wrathmongers and a bloodmaster with the Bloodlords slaughterhost. With a priest giving them killing frenzy 4 shots at 30" on 2+ rr 1s and wounding on 3+ rr 1s was amazing for character and monster sniping. Plus when you move the brick up into cc the bloodmaster goes first with the relic and then causes the cannons to attack before you choose your first unit.

TLDR. Its pretty solid

11 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Well I'll probably be taking at least one unit of wrathmongers in every list so I don't really need to factor them into the cost. I'd say including 2 in the backline is going to be worth it against the majority of armies even if they're just used to clear out screening units. 

Also, I don't have my book on me. Does anyone know if they can still be taken as multiple models in a single unit? The wording on their rule says if any attacks from the UNIT kill any models then the unit gets to shoot, so having two in one unit almost guarantees that those cannons will get to fire. 

A unit of skullcannons can have 1-3 models

[mastercrafted]

The bloodmaster ability works with Skull cannons does it? Nice!

[AresX8]

Just found this crazy tech with the Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury, I think FaceHammer mentioned this too in our book review episode of their podcast.

He has a command ability that allows Daemon units wholly within 16" of him, if they are 6" from an enemy unit, they can pile in 6" and still fight.

Most important tidbit: It's used at the start of the combat phase.

So this means Daemon units can run, end within 6", command ability goes off, wham, into combat they go. This won't proc any charge bonuses (like say for Bloodcrushers), but for Bloodletters and Flesh Hounds, have at it! Probably a great way to make the Murderhost even faster too.

Edited March 26, 2019 by AresX8

[fwlr]

Any tips for magnetising the bloodthirsters and skarbrand? Their wings are gigantic, no way fitting in a case. There are some nice magnet sized holes in the wing joint on the normal thirster. Also, any easy way to magnetise the whip/flail to swap between an unfettered and WoK?  Certain combos for different lists, don't fancy dropping another 70 on another Id have to build and paint.

 

Surely someone here has some experience with this?

[Baron Wastelands]

2 hours ago, Kazimer said:

5 can get an icon, its 10 for a glaive. And note they changed it so the leader cant take the glaive. 

Is this based on a previous ruling? I wouldn’t assume that 1 in 10 precludes a unit of 5 taking one. It just means a unit of 10 can’t take more than one.

I think you can take one leader, one glaive, and one banner in a unit of 5. You could take them in a(n understrength) unit of 3 if you wanted to.

Unless I’ve missed something; more than happy to be corrected if there’s a precedent in faq somewhere?

[AresX8]

10 minutes ago, fwlr said:

Any tips for magnetising the bloodthirsters and skarbrand? Their wings are gigantic, no way fitting in a case. There are some nice magnet sized holes in the wing joint on the normal thirster. Also, any easy way to magnetise the whip/flail to swap between an unfettered and WoK?  Certain combos for different lists, don't fancy dropping another 70 on another Id have to build and paint.

 

Surely someone here has some experience with this?

I've magnetized the wings fairly easily using 1/8" x 1/16" magnets that are N52. I can take pictures once I'm home from work. I magnetized their weapons a much harder way than you should, I've seen people glue arms down then magnetize at the wrist.

8 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Is this based on a previous ruling? I wouldn’t assume that 1 in 10 precludes a unit of 5 taking one. It just means a unit of 10 can’t take more than one.

I think you can take one leader, one glaive, and one banner in a unit of 5. You could take them in a(n understrength) unit of 3 if you wanted to.

Unless I’ve missed something; more than happy to be corrected if there’s a precedent in faq somewhere?

New warscroll clears it up: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/AoS_Blood_Warriors_EN.pdf 

A unit of 5 cannot take an icon.

Edited March 26, 2019 by AresX8

[Warbossironteef]

On 3/25/2019 at 3:04 PM, Luke1705 said:

Tyrants of blood is real good.  Only 3 games in but undefeated so far.  I'm going to keep singing the praises of reapers of vengeance over bloodlords until the day I die.  Take the blood hungerer relic and on a 4+ you get that sweet sweet attack first bonus you wanted from bloodlords anyway.

Personally I am a little less sold on the always fight first thing because you can get around that on your turn with good use of the unfettered fury or exalted thirster 6" pile in, and on their turn you only ever have to suffer one unit anyhow.  As a result, I may use the one free CP per turn relic on the exalted thirster since he almost always uses his command ability.

Let me explain the combo.

1) You're too far away to reliably charge, or you're stuck in a combat you don't want to be, or there is a unit like loonsmasha fanatics that always fights first, and you're a scrub who took reapers of vengeance instead of bloodlords.

1a) Cast +1 to hit from your slaughterpriest for extra silliness

2) You decide you might as well fall back, advance, stand on your head, and do anything that would normally forbid a charge move, ending your move more than 3" away but less than 6" away from the fanatics (or whatever other unit of your choosing that thinks its sneaky.  My personal favorite fantasy is that stupid gristlegore general)

3) Don't charge (you can't for like 3 reasons, remember?)

4) At the start of the combat phase, courteously allow your opponent to activate any units he has that are in combat that can attack first (like the fanatics).  This is an unecessary step, but it's good to remember that this is a gentleman's game and you're about to do ungodly things to whatever that unit is, so give it some dignity on its way out

4a) Curse yourself if you forgot not to charge his fanatics with some other unit

5) Otherwise, then use your rejoice in exalted slaughter command ability on the big guy (or rejoice in the normal slaughter command ability on the unfettered fury thirster)

6) Whenever you feel like it in the combat phase, pile in and fight.  You can flexibly go last since you're obviously not going to get attacked from a unit farther than 3" away from you, or you can go first and start the domino there if you need/want to.

6a) Do the thing that bloodlords can't do and fight a second time, piling in a futher 6". (Let me tell you being able to hit something that you're 8" away from before you start your pile is pretty unexpected sometimes.  Let alone if you do it twice and hit something like 16" away after *not* charging.)

6b) Do this with as many other bloodthirsters as you have command points (so usually 2/4/6/8 total activations unless you just don't need to waste the CP up front (but usually you want to ) )

7) Allow your opponent to activate his first unit

 

 

TLDR: Tyrants of blood is amazing.  IMO better than Bloodlords.

 

Fall back and "charge" is borderline OP when 3-4 thirsters can all do it for 1 CP.  Take an exalted thirster or an unfettered fury thirster (or both) in every list.  Full stop.

Oh so the only way this works is if you have 1 other unit either in combat or eligible to enter it. The rules of combat read, "when it is your turn, you must either pick an eligible unit to fight with, or pass (note that you cannot pass if there is an eligible unit from your army that can fight..." So if you BT's were 6 away and you had no other units, you wouldnt be able to pass, which would mean you would have to pile in.

So you need 1 other unit eligible, declare that unit, then after that you can do the above shenanigans. 

It took me awhile to figure it out so I thought i'd share the info. 

[Baron Wastelands]

6 minutes ago, AresX8 said:

New warscroll clears it up: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/AoS_Blood_Warriors_EN.pdf 

A unit of 5 cannot take an icon.

It doesn’t clear it up, it says “1 in every 10 can take a glaive” (same for icon). That is not the same as saying only the tenth (and 20th, etc.) model can be a glaive. In units which come in multiples of 10 only, then it’s clear - but blood warriors can be taken in multiples of 5. So my understanding of 1 in every 10 means no more than one in every 10, I.e. you can’t take 2 in 10, or 3 in 20. In effect, taking 1 in 5, or 2 in 15, does not violate the rule of 1 in every 10, at least not unless there is a ruling which spells that out.

[Mikeymajq]

I think you may be overthinking it. Or wishing really hard it was 1 in every 5 models? The rule is pretty clear.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Mikeymajq

[Bululu]

21 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Oh so the only way this works is if you have 1 other unit either in combat or eligible to enter it. The rules of combat read, "when it is your turn, you must either pick an eligible unit to fight with, or pass (note that you cannot pass if there is an eligible unit from your army that can fight..." So if you BT's were 6 away and you had no other units, you wouldnt be able to pass, which would mean you would have to pile in.

So you need 1 other unit eligible, declare that unit, then after that you can do the above shenanigans. 

It took me awhile to figure it out so I thought i'd share the info. 

I dont really understand what you are trying to say, but i will explain what i think he is trying to say XD

 MOVEMENT

1. The enemy has something that attacks at the start of the combat phase (Fanatics, FEC item, etc)

2. You leave your BTs at 4''-6'' and nothing inside 3'' of the enemy units that fight at the start of the combat phase

 

START of the combat phase

1. You cast UF command that lets yours BTs be elegible for combat at 6'' and to pile in extra 3''

2. You cast reapers of vengance command if you think that you need to attack twice with something

3. Your oponent try to attack with the units that attackt at the start of the combat phase, he doesnt have any enemy at 3'' so this units cant be elected

 

NORMAL combat phase 

1. You choose  one of your BTs, pile in 6'' do the Bloodlord things to attack with rest of BTs, attack twice if needed with reaper of vengance command previously used

2. Your oponent select a unit to attack (might be the ones that couldnt attack on the start of the combat phase, but this one i have a doubt cause the items, etc says "this attacks on the start of the combat phase" so i dont know if they can still attack on normal combat phase)

 

 

[MadCat]

Hey guys!!!

Question...

"Each Blood Blessing of Khorne can only be chanted once per turn, regardless of how many PRIESTS know that prayer."

If i fail the prayer and other priest Know the same fail Prayer, can i try again?

 

[Mikeymajq]

2 minutes ago, MadCat said:

Hey guys!!!

Question...

"Each Blood Blessing of Khorne can only be chanted once per turn, regardless of how many PRIESTS know that prayer."

If i fail the prayer and other priest Know the same fail Prayer, can i try again?

 

Even if it fails, it has still been chanted (just not successfully). So no

Edited March 26, 2019 by Mikeymajq

[Xasz]

The combo is nice but makes the list a bit too deathstar-like for my tastes.

For some reason I overlooked this ability, I guess because the other Reapers of Vengeance stuff is rather mediocre/situational.

I'll have to think about it again, although I feel like a clever opponent could play around this with clever movement and the exalted BT seems mandatory (which would mean buying FW stuff i.e. becoming the antichrist).

[Bululu]

1 minute ago, Xasz said:

The combo is nice but makes the list a bit too deathstar-like for my tastes.

For some reason I overlooked this ability, I guess because the other Reapers of Vengeance stuff is rather mediocre/situational.

I'll have to think about it again, although I feel like a clever opponent could play around this with clever movement and the exalted BT seems mandatory (which would mean buying FW stuff i.e. becoming the antichrist).

The UF BTs does it too (same command i think)

[Xasz]

Just now, Bululu said:

The UF BTs does it too (same command i think)

Yeah, I misread the UF BTs ability to just affect a single unit overall.

My bad.

[kahadin]

57 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

I think you may be overthinking it. Or wishing really hard it was 1 in every 5 models? The rule is pretty clear.

I just asked on the FB GW AoS page and they also feel like the 5 man unit cannot take an icon nor glaive. FB is not official, but I trust it, that's the way everyone handled it anyway.

I just had a flare of hope light up in my chest, but it has been swiftly extinguished. ;_;

[Luke1705]

31 minutes ago, Xasz said:

The combo is nice but makes the list a bit too deathstar-like for my tastes.

For some reason I overlooked this ability, I guess because the other Reapers of Vengeance stuff is rather mediocre/situational.

I'll have to think about it again, although I feel like a clever opponent could play around this with clever movement and the exalted BT seems mandatory (which would mean buying FW stuff i.e. becoming the antichrist).

Tyrants of blood is inherently a 3-4 headed death star. Definitely not for everyone and definitely not without counters, but that command ability combo is basically why I’m less enthralled by bloodlords. Because you can get around that stuff on your turn anyway.

Exalted is real real nice. Saves command points and is a great buff target. Turns out hitting on a 2+ re-rolling ones is pretty reliable 👌

if you don’t like the forge world model or price check out creature caster. Super reasonable prices and a very good exalted thirster sculpt IMO

[Luke1705]

1 hour ago, Warbossironteef said:

Oh so the only way this works is if you have 1 other unit either in combat or eligible to enter it. The rules of combat read, "when it is your turn, you must either pick an eligible unit to fight with, or pass (note that you cannot pass if there is an eligible unit from your army that can fight..." So if you BT's were 6 away and you had no other units, you wouldnt be able to pass, which would mean you would have to pile in.

So you need 1 other unit eligible, declare that unit, then after that you can do the above shenanigans. 

It took me awhile to figure it out so I thought i'd share the info. 

I’m not sure what you’re saying either. Did bululu clear it up?

I can have no units that are within 3” and still pull that same combo. It basically gives a slightly worse (but AOE so better) version of the old wrath of khorne run and charge ability while simultaneously making sure that on your turn every single bloodthirster you have can activate before even a single unit of loonsmasha fanatics

[Xasz]

1 minute ago, Luke1705 said:

if you don’t like the forge world model or price check out creature caster. Super reasonable prices and a very good exalted thirster sculpt IMO

Nah, I'll just run another BT instead.

On another note, I wonder if Mage Eater and the WoK BTs ability stack.

[Luke1705]

Just now, Xasz said:

Nah, I'll just run another BT instead.

On another note, I wonder if Mage Eater and the WoK BTs ability stack.

Yeah it’s weird. I’m playing it as no until I receive confirmation since with 2 slaughterpriests 3 denies is usually enough. Or I just make someone else have that ability.

But yeah 4 thirsters is super solid. I go between skarbrand, fury, insensate and wrath or trade the wrath for a second insensate if I need to make points