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AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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3 hours ago, AresX8 said:

I just finished building my Warshrine last night! Its Protection from the Dark Gods aura not being a wholly within aura is great considering how big of a base it's on... so keep that congo line going!

 

A conga line will be useless, because the Warshrine affect MODELS, not units. So if you have one model in range of the warshrine, only him will be affected by it, so as soon as you miss enough 6++, he will die and you won't have the protection for the rest of the unit

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As somone with a small collection who is looking to expand, do you think Blood Warriors are better with this rulebook? I didn't see many people taking them before and I believe their points are the same. They seem pretty tough to remove from the board, but damn are they expensive.  The Gorefist is the clear option right?

20 of them buffed up a little seem very hard to move off of objectives, but that's 400 points... Yikes.

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1 minute ago, Warbossironteef said:

As somone with a small collection who is looking to expand, do you think Blood Warriors are better with this rulebook? I didn't see many people taking them before and I believe their points are the same. They seem pretty tough to remove from the board, but damn are they expensive.  The Gorefist is the clear option right?

20 of them buffed up a little seem very hard to move off of objectives, but that's 400 points... Yikes.

I'm not sure we really know where Blood Warriors stand right now without actually playing with new rules, however, the changes appear to be a net positive.

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36 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Which bloodthirster though? haha

Speaking of bloodthirsters, I noticed a strange quirk yesterday.

There are four bloodthirsters, including Skarbrand. Three are on one base and the other is on a different one, according to the official base chart.

Now, I know it doesn't really matter, but as some events are requiring bases match the chart, I am concerned about how to base my bloodthirsters. Personally, I prefer all models in all my AoS armies be on rounds, not ovals, so that's how I would like to see things go, but if the chart gets updated to make all four on ovals, I'd be hosed.

Any thoughts on which way the list is likely to be updated once GW catches this inconsistency?

 

(And yes, I know Skarbrand is a named character, but IS still a bloodthirster, so it makes zero sense to have him be different.)

Edited by Sleboda
Grr... Autocorrect.
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1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

Soaking of bloodthirsters, I noticed a strange quirk yesterday.

There are four bloodthirsters, including Skarbrand. Three are on one base and the other is on a different one, according to the official base chart.

Now, I know it doesn't really matter, but as some events are requiring bases match the chart, I am concerned about how to base my bloodthirsters. Personally, I prefer all models in all my AoS armies be on rounds, not ovals, so that's how I would like to see things go, but if the chart gets updated to make all four on ovals, I'd be hosed.

Any thoughts on which way the list is likely to be updated once GW catches this inconsistency?

 

(And yes, I know Skarbrand is a named character, but IS still a bloodthirster, so it makes zero sense to have him be different.)

"sense" is so subjective....

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1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

Soaking of bloodthirsters, I noticed a strange quirk yesterday.

There are four bloodthirsters, including Skarbrand. Three are on one base and the other is on a different one, according to the official base chart.

Now, I know it doesn't really matter, but as some events are requiring bases match the chart, I am concerned about how to base my bloodthirsters. Personally, I prefer all models in all my AoS armies be on rounds, not ovals, so that's how I would like to see things go, but if the chart gets updated to make all four on ovals, I'd be hosed.

Any thoughts on which way the list is likely to be updated once GW catches this inconsistency?

 

(And yes, I know Skarbrand is a named character, but IS still a bloodthirster, so it makes zero sense to have him be different.)

Magnets an option? 

I got a bunch of things magnetized to bases incase something changes down the road.

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1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

Soaking of bloodthirsters, I noticed a strange quirk yesterday.

There are four bloodthirsters, including Skarbrand. Three are on one base and the other is on a different one, according to the official base chart.

Now, I know it doesn't really matter, but as some events are requiring bases match the chart, I am concerned about how to base my bloodthirsters. Personally, I prefer all models in all my AoS armies be on rounds, not ovals, so that's how I would like to see things go, but if the chart gets updated to make all four on ovals, I'd be hosed.

Any thoughts on which way the list is likely to be updated once GW catches this inconsistency?

 

(And yes, I know Skarbrand is a named character, but IS still a bloodthirster, so it makes zero sense to have him be different.)

Skarbrand is on a different base because that's the base they ship him with, I'd be pretty surprised if they changed it. Originally I think the regular bloodthirsters are on ovals because of the way that they're elevated on the little bit of fire under their feet. Ovals give them better balance, but skarbrand doesn't have that issue so he's on a round. 

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13 minutes ago, ledha said:

A conga line will be useless, because the Warshrine affect MODELS, not units. So if you have one model in range of the warshrine, only him will be affected by it, so as soon as you miss enough 6++, he will die and you won't have the protection for the rest of the unit

I stand corrected!

11 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

As somone with a small collection who is looking to expand, do you think Blood Warriors are better with this rulebook? I didn't see many people taking them before and I believe their points are the same. They seem pretty tough to remove from the board, but damn are they expensive.  The Gorefist is the clear option right?

20 of them buffed up a little seem very hard to move off of objectives, but that's 400 points... Yikes.

I'd be doing units of 10 for Blood Warriors, not 20. You want that extra Blood Tithe and it's easier to be wholly within when you have smaller unit sizes. Gorefists are indeed the best option for them now.

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12 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Skarbrand is on a different base because that's the base they ship him with, I'd be pretty surprised if they changed it. Originally I think the regular bloodthirsters are on ovals because of the way that they're elevated on the little bit of fire under their feet. Ovals give them better balance, but skarbrand doesn't have that issue so he's on a round. 

Yeah, it's probably down to "that's what they came with" but that hasn't stopped GW from changing (heck, WFB to AoS destroyed a lot of peoples' lovingly done base work) bases before. 

It's at the point where I no longer buy cool resin bases or do any thing beyond textured paint on bases because I've been burned enough. Just trying to avoid it again with my newest army (hopped on the Khorne bandwagon with W&R, and hit the gas with the new book).

A note on balancing the models. A round will always have better balance than a similarly sized oval.

Edited by Sleboda
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I was thinking a big unit of 30 blood warriors with the run+charge host, reduce rend battalion, +1 to save prayer, and whip would make one heck of a turn 1 tarpit. You'd have to deploy the unit with the bloodstoker right in the middle to make it work, but you could potentially get a turn one charge and pin the enemy in their deployment zone for days. Bonus points if the talisman of burning blood still works the same. 

1 minute ago, Sleboda said:

Yeah, it's probably down to "that's what they came with" but that hasn't stopped GW from changing (heck, WFB to AoS destroyed a lot of peoples' lovingly done base work) bases before. 

It's at the point where I no longer buy cool resin bases or do any thing beyond textured paint on bases because I've been burned enough. Just trying to avoid it again with my newest army (hopped on the Khorne bandwagon with W&R, and hit the gas with the new book).

Fair enough. I think when they came out with the basing guide they were pretty good about sticking to what came in the box (after the initial fail), but yeah there were a couple issues.

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1 hour ago, ledha said:

A conga line will be useless, because the Warshrine affect MODELS, not units. So if you have one model in range of the warshrine, only him will be affected by it, so as soon as you miss enough 6++, he will die and you won't have the protection for the rest of the unit

nope, it affects units for the moment - happy days :)

 

Quote

In your hero phase, the Shrinemaster can pray to the Dark Gods to bless his followers with the Favour of Chaos. If the Warshrine has been dedicated to a particular Chaos God, the Shrinemaster instead prays to his patron for their favour. When a Shrinemaster prays, pick a Mortal unit within 16" and roll a dice. On a 3 or more his prayer is answered and its effects take place until your next hero phase.

 

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I've been wanting 3 Bloodthirsters for the longest time (Wrath of Khorne, Insensate Rage and SKARBRAND), but do I now need 4 to run anything viable? I love Bloodthirsters, but I feel like if I run 4 I literally don't have much more of an army. It feels like they're all or nothing though, you either commit to all of them, or run none. 1 BT will probably die too quick and then you just have a slightly weaker normal army with some points that could have gone elsewhere. IDK. 

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So, since we've gotten enough info to start making lists, I thought I'd give you the outline of my army to dissect. Ambitions are pretty standard casual-but-not-too-casual.  :)

Skullfiend Tribe

 

Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut 160

-Artifact: Crowncleaver (+2A)

 

Aspiring Deathbringer 80

-Artifact: Collar of Contempt (dispel spells+endless spell)

 

Bloodsecrator 140

 

Bloodstoker 80

 

Slaughterpriest 100

 

10 Bloodreavers 70

-Meatripper Axes

 

10 Blood Warriors 200 ~Gorefists better now?

-2x Axes

 

10 Chaos Warriors 180 ~will eventually upgrade these to Blood Warriors, or something else?

-HW/Shield

 

M Skullcrushers 180

-Glaives

 

Khorgorath 100

Khorgorath 100

 

Skullreapers 180

Skullreapers 180

 

Skulltake battalion 140

Hex skulls 40

Extra command point 50

 

1980 / 2000

 

As mentioned, the Chaos Warriors will be replaced as soon as possible, but with what I’m not sure yet.

 

My plan is to have a strong magic lockdown game and have the warrior units in the center, while having a strong right flank consisting of the Skulltake batallion + Aspiring Deathbringer. With the Skullfiend tribe bonuses/command abilities these should be able to chew through most units.

 

The Lord and Skullcrushers will reinforce either flank - I actually like +2A on the Lord as it makes for more reliable output compared to Gorecleaver.

 

I’ll probably struggle with big monsters, but who doesn’t!

 

Thoughts?

 

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33 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I've been wanting 3 Bloodthirsters for the longest time (Wrath of Khorne, Insensate Rage and SKARBRAND), but do I now need 4 to run anything viable? I love Bloodthirsters, but I feel like if I run 4 I literally don't have much more of an army. It feels like they're all or nothing though, you either commit to all of them, or run none. 1 BT will probably die too quick and then you just have a slightly weaker normal army with some points that could have gone elsewhere. IDK. 

Pretty sure 3 will be fine. You can still do at least 4 rounds of bloodthirster smackdown before your opponent can activate anything, and the extra points free up room for screening and support. 4 might work but like you said, it doesn't leave room for much else. 

The main thing I'm wondering is if the unfettered is better than the wrath now. Cheaper for the same melee output, and the unfettered's command ability is pretty awesome since you don't need to make a charge anymore, just run 6 inches away and you're guaranteed to be able to fight.

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2 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Pretty sure 3 will be fine. You can still do at least 4 rounds of bloodthirster smackdown before your opponent can activate anything, and the extra points free up room for screening and support. 4 might work but like you said, it doesn't leave room for much else. 

The main thing I'm wondering is if the unfettered is better than the wrath now. Cheaper for the same melee output, and the unfettered's command ability is pretty awesome since you don't need to make a charge anymore, just run 6 inches away and you're guaranteed to be able to fight.

I thought part of what made WoK so good was his ability to unbind? or was that just bonus? 

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1 hour ago, Warbossironteef said:

As somone with a small collection who is looking to expand, do you think Blood Warriors are better with this rulebook? I didn't see many people taking them before and I believe their points are the same. They seem pretty tough to remove from the board, but damn are they expensive.  The Gorefist is the clear option right?

20 of them buffed up a little seem very hard to move off of objectives, but that's 400 points... Yikes.

I have always used blood warriors and they have gotten better since the gore fists are more likely to trigger now. The only downsides is that the champion cannot take the goreglaive and they will have to deal with battleshock more. I usually run them in 10s. The few times I have taken them larger than 10 they have been very unwieldy and haven't gotten many more attacks in than a 10 man unit. 

 

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1 hour ago, Grimrock said:

I was thinking a big unit of 30 blood warriors with the run+charge host, reduce rend battalion, +1 to save prayer, and whip would make one heck of a turn 1 tarpit. You'd have to deploy the unit with the bloodstoker right in the middle to make it work, but you could potentially get a turn one charge and pin the enemy in their deployment zone for days. Bonus points if the talisman of burning blood still works the same. 

The talisman still works the same. I was thinking of doing the same thing with 40 Bloodreavers from a Dark Feast battalion. They get +1 run/charge from their banner and move 6" instead of the Blood Warrior's 5", so you're really trucking up the board. With a Gore Pilgrim's battalion as well as some movement Artifacts, along with Brazen Fury / Frenzy / Bronzed Flesh, you should be able to keep them within aura range for 4 attacks each. They should gum up the enemy for a turn or two, meanwhile move your Blood Warriors or other Bloodreavers into range of your Bloodstoker and fire them off wherever they need to go.

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21 minutes ago, andysonic1 said:

They should gum up the enemy for a turn or two, meanwhile move your Blood Warriors or other Bloodreavers into range of your Bloodstoker and fire them off wherever they need to go.

I like this idea of the Stoker being like a gun you load and shoot. Im gonna associate him with that idea for now on.

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30 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I thought part of what made WoK so good was his ability to unbind? or was that just bonus? 

I think it depends on your list. I never really needed it with the old book, but I guess it might be more important now that the brazen rune can't just guarantee a critical unbind every game. WoK shooting is solid too, but like I said the command ability on the unfettered is pretty awesome... Yeah still kind of a tough call for me. I guess either way it'll be fun. Better than before where the WoK was always just purely better. 

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I've been wanting 3 Bloodthirsters for the longest time (Wrath of Khorne, Insensate Rage and SKARBRAND), but do I now need 4 to run anything viable? I love Bloodthirsters, but I feel like if I run 4 I literally don't have much more of an army. It feels like they're all or nothing though, you either commit to all of them, or run none. 1 BT will probably die too quick and then you just have a slightly weaker normal army with some points that could have gone elsewhere. IDK. 

I think 3 bloodthirsters is probably more balanced. The viability of 4 probably depends on how many command points you have (and if we can indeed activate 4 thirsters 8 total times in a single combat phase with enough CP in reapers of vengeance, which it seems we can)

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I know the posts are flying thick and fast so not sure if this has already been covered but a couple of interesting interactions. Now most CA won’t work with Archaon now as they don’t activate in hero phase and he can’t get +1 to wound from jugger lord (as it’s been replaced) but he gets two good things.

1) double fight with reapers 

2)new bloodstoker allows you to re roll all wound rolls so you can just fish for 6s on his sword.

I might try a Archaon, Skarbrand list with just a bunch of supporting chaff and heroes. Try to race up to healing D3 every turn and some extra priests for healing and armour improvement. 

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2 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

As somone with a small collection who is looking to expand, do you think Blood Warriors are better with this rulebook? I didn't see many people taking them before and I believe their points are the same. They seem pretty tough to remove from the board, but damn are they expensive.  The Gorefist is the clear option right?

20 of them buffed up a little seem very hard to move off of objectives, but that's 400 points... Yikes.

I'd say they got better but they still aren't amazing. I've found them to be surprisingly useful in units of 10 and I'll probably keep running them that way. 4+ to wound was their biggest weakness before since it prevented them from ever really doing major damage (except for the goreglaive). With the Bloodstoker now granting full rerolls to wound I can see them being solidly decent with a bunch of +attack buffs.

Loadout is actually kind of up in the air. Gorefist is probably better but if your looking for sheer offensive power 3 to hit, rerolling 1s with 4 to wound, rerolling failed means they'll get a lot of attacks through, especially with their extra pile-in and attack when they die. 

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