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AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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2 minutes ago, Kyyn said:

One question.

Artifact - Halo of Blood: The bearer fights at the start of the combat phase before the players pick any other unit to fight in that combat phase. 

Does this mean that if it is my turn I fight first with the bearer and then I can choose another unit to fight as it is my turn before my opponent choose the first unit to fight ??

And if it is my enemy turn it just mean the bearer fights and then my enemy choose the first unit to fight ?

 

It means that in your turn the bearer fights at the start of the combat phase before any other combat occurs basically.

It thus also menas that in your opponents turn the bearer fights at the start of the combat phase before any other combat occurs basically.

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19 minutes ago, Killax said:

As I read it we can spam Blood Boil and Blood Bind. At least the Warscroll doesn't mention it.
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/AoS_Slaughterpriest_EN.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2QVV5cHmbEe3B-svP_tCmU7J_I1Vp-RJ-ElJGWiIYLGGc5JApCLGmgrtg

But we can't spam the additional Blood Blessings? The issue with the reviews these days is that they are much more thinking about their NDA with GW ;) 
IMG_9824.jpg

that is correct, slaughter priest warscroll prayers spammeables, rest no

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15 minutes ago, Killax said:

The only two units, who's Battalions I'm not impressed with are Skullcrusher's Brass Stampede and Bloodcrusher's Blood Stampede.

I think they had lists in mind in which someone would only spam big units of them and not an MSU style setup. They are not that bad if you would focus your entire list on those models but obviously the price tag doesn't scale too well with what we are cooking right now.

To be honest, I consider those two battalions only a slightly worse than those that focus their one and only rule on a single 5 wound model.

Edited by Xasz
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I'm super tempted to go Bloodforged with Skarr Bloodwrath and some attack buffs and ye olde screens of 10 reavers in front.

Maybe 10 man wrathmonger units could be a thing seeing as they are cheaper? 🤔

I'm not that worried about battleshock in an edition where 1 command point stops units from running and we do have quite a few buffs here and there to help as well. And I definitly wouldn't care about reavers running xD

I would also love to fling 20-30 blood warriors across the board at some point with ignoring one point of rend and full rerolls to wound just as a super annoying board control clog. 

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4 hours ago, Killax said:

As above, you can, but it doesn't add up/stack.
In addition, while you do get the discount, I don't think 40 Bloodreavers are really worth thaking. 20 are, with Meatripper axes, and smaller pockets of 10 are aswell.

So why not the 40? Well, without Battleshock immunity and thaking Blood Tithe into consideration, they are, in my opinion best used as fodder or objective huggers.

On the flipside, 10 Bloodwarriors with Gorefists are good now.  A lot of other units became slighty cheaper or easier in use, so I feel the 140 point units are often the focus of 'what is good'. 

I think the real reason unhappiness occured is simple; Khorne got a Wizard Tower and Magic Spells. It's litterly what nobody asked for but what we simply got.

While our Slaughterpriests and Magic Spells are certainly great, the whole reason it doesn't gel well with many is that it's often mentioned in lore from roughly the last 30 years that Khorne (especially in Fantasy) favours melee combat, 'simple slaughter' and despises the use of magic or basically anything that isn't close combat focused. This makes the new release very ironic, comedic and not really in the positive sence for lore fans. 

I fully agree with you that we are still great in close combat, and mainly due to our magic and abilities can continue that. I must say it's weird to have Battleshock largely removed for Mortals however. In that sence I think the Wizard Tower could have acted in a different manner aswell ;) 

My perspective on new Khorne is:
- You will have to like the Slaughterpriests and Endless Spells, they are our 'gifts' in this new book. Not using them kind of defeats the bonus we get from our Allegiance. It would be like not using a Herdstone while you are Beasts of Chaos for example. The same applies to the Hosts from my perspective also. The allround army buffs available (small as they seem) is what keeps us around.

- We can focus one unit to be an amazing powerhouse. It's just that as an army we are less of a wave of continious attacks. Battleshock playes a role in that part but even more larger is that as an allround army we've become significantly slower, due to how the Bloodstoker is limited and the Wrath of Khorne's Command Ability is gone.

- You can focus much more specialized if you really want to make a particular unit work. We have a bucketload of Battalions, all of them pretty much focussing on one type of unit. It will make that particular type of unit work well. As before, I pretty much like everything that doesn't cost 180 points (which is 90% of the book or something). Reasons being: - Skullcrushers can be a tarpit but otherwise are very hard to keep into the bubble; - Skullreapers have some great offense but so have Bloodletters and the difference between them now is smaller than ever. 

Rounding it with the pro's and con's of this army:
+ Way better ranged support than ever, from Endless Spells to Skullcannons with Wrathmongers
+ Options to heavily focus on one type of unit you really like, the diversity in Khorne armies from my gut feeling should massively increase
+ Actual acces to a good MSU unit with cheap great smaller heroes

- We are slower as before, we can kamikaze Bloodthirster, but otherwise the army as a whole is significantly slower
- If you want to kill Monsters (or named characters) with relative ease you have to really commit to it, which can bite you
- Despite diversity, my personal top competitive view on Khorne is the same as it used to be, you either go 'Gore Pilgrims style' or 'Bloodletters/Bloodthirsters'

All and all I'm not sad, mad or upset. Do think this is the funniest Khorne release ever though. 

Cheers,

Right you are mate. I’ll admit, I was also a little disappointed about the whole endless prayers thing, heck, I was actually hoping for no terrain for Khorne. Buuut, I’m pretty much rationalizing (read: deluding) myself by seeing it as this: Throw your Judgements of Khorne at enemy ranged units to force them into GLORIOUS close combat (I remember Killax saying that earlier), remember: we aren’t being cowardly if the enemy started shooting us first!!! It’s only right for us to retaliate! Also I did wish the bleeding icon wasn’t just a Damage Judgement :/ I love wrath-Axe and hexgorger skulls, but bleeding icon is kinda meh for me 

it will be a ton of fun using your judgements (like wrath-Axe) to rip through both your units AND your opponent’s units, albeit not competitive, but I do like that debuff, might help our lads survive

2 hours ago, Xasz said:

Why even bother with Gore Pilgrims?

Pressing the maximum of 4 behemoths/BTs into one list and having two priests for support sounds way better to me than paying tax for another battalion and Mr. Banner. Who cannot keep up with the important models, does only add 1A to weapons that already have 4-6 and has a good chance of not getting these models wholly within.

I highly doubt that he is a valuable addition for a monster list, we are just deeply programmed to automatically add him to everything...

 

I don't think we are on the same page regarding the definition of "monster".

I'm talking about models like the vampire lord on dragon, star drakes and the lot. Models that hit like a truck and are rather survivable due to good saves, healing capabilities or debuffs. BTs fall into this category as well, just on the less survivable and cheaper spectrum.

Just do the math on how many no rend attacks you'll need to down a VLoZD, disregarding the fact that he can heal. Now factor in that you will not always be the one to hit first and that your opponent can interact with you through clipping your unit on both sides or just deny you combat (usually these high end monsters have high movement and flying).

The one unit I can see work for this kind of style are Blood Warriors, as they will always hit at least once and have some stuff going for them with Bloodmad and Goretide. In a game you will probably get them to 3-5 attacks per model (I know you could do 6, but that's not easy to pull of in an actual).  There is a good chance you can trade favorably by sacrificing units of 10 Blood Warriors but it is not really reliable. That's the point were I would ally in some daemons and leave the mortals only territory. Skullfiends with WoK, Valkia and whatever doesn't sound half bad in my opinion. 

 

I've lost track, can we spam BB or not?

Ahhh ic, really sorry I misunderstood you! I was thinking about all models with the keyword MONSTER, so I kept thinking about meat bags with lots of wounds and damage concentrated into a single model rather than ethereal amulet VLODs and others like that.

My only problem being that Bloodthirsters are so ridiculously squishy (4+ save is just... bad)... 

 

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40 minutes ago, Xasz said:

I think they had lists in mind in which someone would only spam big units of them and not an MSU style setup. They are not that bad if you would focus your entire list on those models but obviously the price tag doesn't scale too well with what we are cooking right now.

To be honest, I consider those two battalions only a slightly worse than those that focus their one and only rule on a single 5 wound model.

I honestly feel that those 2 battalions are a trap to build for. Units of 9 are far too difficult to maneuver, and are WAY too expensive. Units of 3 seem fine, i would use them as a speed bump that actually hurts, units of 6 seem solid. It’s true that your opponent has to whack 1 model out to make you lose the bonus, but it’s basically tempting him to shoot at something that isn’t a)a squishy support hero, or b)a hammer unit, both of which are helpful outcomes

26 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

I'm super tempted to go Bloodforged with Skarr Bloodwrath and some attack buffs and ye olde screens of 10 reavers in front.

Maybe 10 man wrathmonger units could be a thing seeing as they are cheaper? 🤔

I'm not that worried about battleshock in an edition where 1 command point stops units from running and we do have quite a few buffs here and there to help as well. And I definitly wouldn't care about reavers running xD

I would also love to fling 20-30 blood warriors across the board at some point with ignoring one point of rend and full rerolls to wound just as a super annoying board control clog. 

Methinks Bloodforged is not bad, the Skullgrinder at least is a cheap but strong hero, i REALLY want to test him out! Wrathmongers are now super cheap and strike me as a great hammer unit that can attack from behind your blood Warriors (that 2 inch range helps) I dare say Wrathmongers hiding behind blood warriors or Bloodreavers would be pretty solid. Only problem with Bloodforged is the reliance on skullgrinder being alive (this is Khorne after all)

and I do think Slaughterborn Blood Warrior block with gorefists, use Goretide Command ability for 6 inch run and Bloodstoker for 3 inch bonus to charges, it’ll be 23 inch threat range, and with a +3 bonus to charges

Problem being that may not be far enough to get the enemy... however, I think it’s enough to flood an objective with 30 Blood Warriors, which would be a headache to remove (60 wounds at 4+ save that ignores rend 1!), and you could buff it with Bronzed Flesh! I think it’s a good way to surprise your opponent and force them to react! 

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Yeah having to rely on a cheap hero being alive is a bit of a  downer. But yeah 30 blood warriors with that kind of threat range is a prettt sick board controller. And I think the updated bloodstoker is their new best friend tbh. 

Also it's changed. It's not ignore rend -1. It worsens the enemies rend by 1. Which is sooo much better :D

...I gotta finish my chaos warshrine now for maximum tankyness. Plus that reroll to hit prayer is so good!

Edited by Mikeymajq
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42 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Ahhh ic, really sorry I misunderstood you! I was thinking about all models with the keyword MONSTER, so I kept thinking about meat bags with lots of wounds and damage concentrated into a single model rather than ethereal amulet VLODs and others like that.

My only problem being that Bloodthirsters are so ridiculously squishy (4+ save is just... bad)... 

With BB being spamable, we have at least some form of reliable mortal wounds, to either generate a threat zone or damage them. My previous assumption was, that ALL prayers would have a rule of one written into them. It's still not really a counter, but it is something.

BTs are just the cheapest of the upper tier monsters (big bads? centerpieces?), they might pale to the 400+tier and above but they still do what you expect them to do (just not for a very long time but you can bring 4 of them).

The 7th reward is intriguing to me and might be really annoying if you can activate it turn 2-3.

Edited by Xasz
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Early Crimson rain + Bloodlords would make your BT's heal a lot. With resanguination you could heal one for 2d3+1 

I wish they hadn't changed the blade of endless bloodshed because I used to love generating bloodtithe with it. 

Edited by Mikeymajq
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44 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

Early Crimson rain + Bloodlords would make your BT's heal a lot. With resanguination you could heal one for 2d3+1 

I wish they hadn't changed the blade of endless bloodshed because I used to love generating bloodtithe with it. 

Yeah, it's pretty much between resanguination and bronzed flesh for the second priest.

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14 hours ago, Bululu said:

Im afraid not mate, they are the same as usual, u store, u use, rest are wasted, only new thing is there is no longer a limit so you can get 16 and summon an exalted greater deamon of khorne..., and its even worse than in the old battletome,  there is no summoning in the bloodtithe reward table so, there is no way that you can summon more than 1 unit. Right now you can only summon with the summon table and only 1 unit then points are reset to zero.  At least now we can deploy units near the altar so we can summon even if our heroes die.  But we lose the 8 points summon multiple units anywhere on the battlefield cause that is no longer an option in the bloodtithe table

Is this correct that you can only summon one unit only?

Old book was one or more units, if you have the Bloodtithe points.

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I was really hoping for two goreaxes to be changed to +1hit or +1 attack for Bloodwarriors but being able to readily access full rerolls to wound I think will finally unlock their damage potential. I love their models so I'm looking forward to getting them to actually kill stuff.

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34 minutes ago, Dan.Ford said:

Is this correct that you can only summon one unit only?

Old book was one or more units, if you have the Bloodtithe points.

Yes, old book was with the bloodithte table of 8, anywhere 9'' of the enemy, that dissapeared. So no its only 1 unit and only at 12'' of heroes/altar

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4 minutes ago, Bululu said:

Yes, old book was with the bloodithte table of 8, anywhere 9'' of the enemy, that dissapeared. So no its only 1 unit and only at 12'' of heroes/altar

I really hope this is a mess up from GW and will be FAQ'd in ~2 weeks. :[

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I really can't get excited about this tome :(

To me it seems to be a case of:
"Current Khorne players already have the models they need; how do we get them to fork out?"
"I know! We'll give them Endless Spells Prayers.  Then they have to by the models"
"Oh and a battletome of course"

Because these changes are definiltey aimed at the current crop of Khorne players, cause they aren't going to get many new ones, by God.

Why would anyone want to pick these guys up now?

Where are my Berserk fighters tearing around the battlefield? Instead we are going to be plodding around while praying for magical ****** to fly around the battlefield. That's not fun, that's not Khorne...

Blades of Khorne? More like Radicals of Khorne...

They've totally lost their identity for mine 😕

Edited by jazman84
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7 minutes ago, jazman84 said:

I really can't get excited about this tome :(

To me it seems to be a case of:
"Current Khorne players already have the models they need; how do we get them to fork out?"
"I know! We'll give them Endless Spells Prayers.  Then they have to by the models"
"Oh and a battletome of course"

Because these changes are definiltey aimed at the current crop of Khorne players, cause they aren't going to get many new ones, by God.

Why would anyone want to pick these guys up now?

They've totally lost their identity for mine 😕

Actually this could be a good thing. The biggest complaint i hear about Khorne is how 1 dimensional the lore is. I think these new prayers and stuff could expand them lorewise in new interesting directions.

 

BTW does anyone know when summoning occurs? If it was moved to hero phase that would be huge buff.

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Just now, ChaosUndivided said:

Actually this could be a good thing. The biggest complaint i hear about Khorne is how 1 dimensional the lore is. I think these new prayers and stuff could expand them lorewise in new interesting directions.

 

BTW does anyone know when summoning occurs? If it was moved to hero phase that would be huge buff.

I've been  in and around Khorne armies for 25 years. I have never once heard anyone have an issue with their being 1 dimensional.

The whole point of the God is the simplicity of in your face battle, slaughter, drawing of blood and taking skulls (in a close and personal fashion).

What is Khorne now? God of Jihad?

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I think for now this will be the list I run with going with the Skullfiend Tribe perk:

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Mighty Lord of Khorne (120)
- General
- Artefact: Gorecleaver  
Bloodsecrator (140)
Bloodstoker (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Bronzed Flesh
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Goreslick Blades
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (170)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
1 x Khorgoraths (90)
1 x Khorgoraths (90)

Battalions
Skulltake (190)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 144
 

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3 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

I think these new prayers and stuff could expand them lorewise in new interesting directions.

The problem with the lore is that book/story portrayal of Khorne and Battletome/online representation diverge quite heavily. In the latter Khorne dudes cannot hold a coherent thought for no longer than a chicken and it's pretty much "kill, maim burn" on every page with each side being more "killy, maimy, burny"... it gets old before you reach page 3. (its not technically wrong, there are cannibals and cray crays that are aligned to Khorne but that's not all and wouldn't make for interesting lore by itself)

In the bigger and more developed stories we learn of things pretty much forgotten by the one-dimensional intern-writing style you usually find in battletomes. We see Khornes industrial side, smiths,  rituals, arenas to elect a leader to follow, their twisted sense of honor, hierarchy and characters aligned with Khorne actually playing for the endgame...

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Just now, ChaosUndivided said:

Fair. I choose to view it as Khorne fighting fire with fire, which to me feels like something he would do.

We can agree to disagree here.

If I know Khorne as much as I think I do, he'd simply hamfist it by throwing more berserkers/daemons at the spells/casters. And throw them fast.

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1 minute ago, jazman84 said:

We can agree to disagree here.

If I know Khorne as much as I think I do, he'd simply hamfist it by throwing more berserkers/daemons at the spells/casters. And throw them fast.

I think you're right but also here inlies the problem... After decades of that ita just viewed as boring now. A lil shake-up could be good.

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58 minutes ago, Bululu said:

Yes, old book was with the bloodithte table of 8, anywhere 9'' of the enemy, that dissapeared. So no its only 1 unit and only at 12'' of heroes/altar

I also hope this changes is not true, ALL the summoning armies can normall summon any number of units , as long as they had the points. If they have restricted it to one unit , that is very .... poor .

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