Impa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Seems like Skarbrand is going to be the biggest Mortal wound generator. 3 attacks with carnage if wholly within the range of bloodsecrator and wrathmongers. Keep him out of combat round one. Then he’s in Rage round 2. On a 1+ that’s an auto 24 mortal wounds with potential of being double that on 6’s with Carnage.. also with re rolling charges. High probability to get him into combat. And if for some reason that doesn’t crunch what you threw him at you’ve still got slaughter with 11 attacks and rend -2. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeymajq Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I'm guessing no, but does anyone know if their path to glory charts changed? We're thinking of doing one and it would be great to get the armies started before next saturday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I tried goofing around with a practice game, the wholly within bit on all the buffs is really difficult to deal with. My slaughterpriests regularly found themselves out of range for buffs while sticking to the altar, and the bloodstoker... I was base to base with a central model in a 6 man skullcrusher unit and it still couldn't whip them because one of the edge models was a half inch out. Positioning is going to be frustratingly important with this army. Surprisingly the bloodsecrator wasn't too bad since he can just run and chase the units you want to buff, but the reroll spells but didn't really come into play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choombatta Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I do find it odd that they already felt the need to change the Bloodcrushers Murderous Charge ability from the Wrath and Rapture warscroll to what it is in this new battletome, but without seeing everything together in context, it may have been justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivener Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Grimrock said: I tried goofing around with a practice game, the wholly within bit on all the buffs is really difficult to deal with. My slaughterpriests regularly found themselves out of range for buffs while sticking to the altar, and the bloodstoker... I was base to base with a central model in a 6 man skullcrusher unit and it still couldn't whip them because one of the edge models was a half inch out. Positioning is going to be frustratingly important with this army. Surprisingly the bloodsecrator wasn't too bad since he can just run and chase the units you want to buff, but the reroll spells but didn't really come into play. Yeah, it’s too much. The Bloodstoker just flat out cannot whip certain units, and that doesn’t feel intentional. I’m going to shoot GW an email asking to modify the ranges so they’re 1) all the same and 2) bigger. Its just bizarre to me that I need to memorize the 8” bloodstoker, 8” wrathmonger, 18” bloodsecrator, 12” aspiring deathbringer, 12” daemon locus, 16” greater daemon locus, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bululu Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Well ive rereaded my non-english battletome thanks to a someone on general aos discussion thread. At least on my battletome it says that once a priest fails to cast a judgement, that judgement cant be cast again on that phase. So what does mean is that you can put multiple "axes" on the same turn if you dont fail the casts. Cant say if its a translation error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impa Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 39 minutes ago, Impa said: Seems like Skarbrand is going to be the biggest Mortal wound generator. 3 attacks with carnage if wholly within the range of bloodsecrator and wrathmongers. Keep him out of combat round one. Then he’s in Rage round 2. On a 1+ that’s an auto 24 mortal wounds with potential of being double that on 6’s with Carnage.. also with re rolling charges. High probability to get him into combat. And if for some reason that doesn’t crunch what you threw him at you’ve still got slaughter with 11 attacks and rend -2. Also a question on this. If you make him your general and give him devastating blow is that a further 16 auto mortal wounds on a 6? Due to that being his weapons damage characteristics. It’s purely overkill. But would be great to see this devastation. And if ever not buffed with extra attacks. You get that 1 godly 6 and it’s 16x2 mortal wounds. Good bye shiny mortals. And to further add to this later in the game with the new bloodtithe ability slaughter triumphant. Would that rare 6 on the second attack generated also be a potential 16 mortal wounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, Rivener said: Its just bizarre to me that I need to memorize the 8” bloodstoker, 8” wrathmonger, 18” bloodsecrator, 12” aspiring deathbringer, 12” daemon locus, 16” greater daemon locus, etc. Unless you're playing speed chess, you could write down a cheatsheet of ranges. 7 minutes ago, Impa said: Also a question on this. If you make him your general and give him devastating blow is that a further 16 auto mortal wounds on a 6? Unique characters can't take general traits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 That chance of multiple shots from the Cannon is going to be FAQd. I can’t believe the Rules as intended made for multiple shots from the (glass) Cannon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke1705 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 25 minutes ago, Bululu said: Well ive rereaded my non-english battletome thanks to a someone on general aos discussion thread. At least on my battletome it says that once a priest fails to cast a judgement, that judgement cant be cast again on that phase. So what does mean is that you can put multiple "axes" on the same turn if you dont fail the casts. Cant say if its a translation error. In matched play you can’t have more than one of the same spell thing on the board at the same time IIRC. I don’t imagine it’ll be different for us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Actually I guess I'll just put up my other thoughts from my practice game. Here's my list: Skullgrinder (general) - reroll attacks trait - mark of the destroyer (just +2 attacks now) Bloodsecrator Slaughterpriest - killing frenzy Slaughterpriest - bronzed flesh skarre bloodwrath bloodstoker hexgorger skulls wrath axe 10 blood reavers x4 5 blood warriors 5 wrathmongers x3 6 skull crushers bloodforged batallion - wrathmongers, blood warriors, and skullgrinder - after wrathmongers fight for the firs time that phase, if wholly within 8 of skullgrinder and within 3 of enemy, pile in and fight again I was fighting against a nurgle blight cyst with daemon support in scorched earth. My impressions: - skullgrinder with +2-4 attacks and reroll to hit can really put the hurt out, and he doesn't have to worry about turning into a spawn anymore. I was thinking of trying +2 attack trait and gorecleiver next game for the extra rend and possibility of hitting for 6 damage - being able to place a relatively large piece of terrain is really nice, I used it to block off easy access to one of my outer objectives - judgements were ok but the range was a serious issue, even when playing on a tight deployment like scorched earth. if you want the most of them you need to put the altar right near the middle of the board - layers of blood reavers were great as screens and generated a lot of tithe (hasn't changed), and wrathmongers behind them were terrifying. one turn the wrathmongers attacked over a screen twice with buffs and almost totally wrecked a unit of blight kings before they got to attack - skull crushers never got to charge since I got pinned early on, but even without it they felt much better. that extra attack actually really made a big difference and combined with hordes of wrathmongers and a bloodsecrator they were pretty scary (10 attacks each can be nasty) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AresX8 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Coyote said: That chance of multiple shots from the Cannon is going to be FAQd. I can’t believe the Rules as intended made for multiple shots from the (glass) Cannon. I completely agree with you, because it also applies to the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster's Bloodflail and Hellfire Breath. That's a lot of extra damage there! 1 minute ago, Luke1705 said: In matched play you can’t have more than one of the same spell thing on the board at the same time IIRC. I don’t imagine it’ll be different for us You're correct. In the review videos, when the page for the Judgments, you can read that we can have only one of each Judgment in play at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bululu Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 10 minutes ago, AresX8 said: I completely agree with you, because it also applies to the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster's Bloodflail and Hellfire Breath. That's a lot of extra damage there! You're correct. In the review videos, when the page for the Judgments, you can read that we can have only one of each Judgment in play at once. Nope, it says you cant have more than the miniatures you have for that model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bululu Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 42 minutes ago, Bululu said: Well ive rereaded my non-english battletome thanks to a someone on general aos discussion thread. At least on my battletome it says that once a priest fails to cast a judgement, that judgement cant be cast again on that phase. So what does mean is that you can put multiple "axes" on the same turn if you dont fail the casts. Cant say if its a translation error. This can probably be contradicted by the warscroll of the judgements cause it says in the english web "1 slaughter priest can try to summon this" dont know if that 1 is same as "only 1 battlepriest". (that is not said that way on my non english warscroll) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easytyger Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, Grimrock said: Actually I guess I'll just put up my other thoughts from my practice game. Here's my list: Skullgrinder (general) - reroll attacks trait - mark of the destroyer (just +2 attacks now) Bloodsecrator Slaughterpriest - killing frenzy Slaughterpriest - bronzed flesh skarre bloodwrath bloodstoker hexgorger skulls wrath axe 10 blood reavers x4 5 blood warriors 5 wrathmongers x3 6 skull crushers bloodforged batallion - wrathmongers, blood warriors, and skullgrinder - after wrathmongers fight for the firs time that phase, if wholly within 8 of skullgrinder and within 3 of enemy, pile in and fight again I was fighting against a nurgle blight cyst with daemon support in scorched earth. My impressions: - skullgrinder with +2-4 attacks and reroll to hit can really put the hurt out, and he doesn't have to worry about turning into a spawn anymore. I was thinking of trying +2 attack trait and gorecleiver next game for the extra rend and possibility of hitting for 6 damage - being able to place a relatively large piece of terrain is really nice, I used it to block off easy access to one of my outer objectives - judgements were ok but the range was a serious issue, even when playing on a tight deployment like scorched earth. if you want the most of them you need to put the altar right near the middle of the board - layers of blood reavers were great as screens and generated a lot of tithe (hasn't changed), and wrathmongers behind them were terrifying. one turn the wrathmongers attacked over a screen twice with buffs and almost totally wrecked a unit of blight kings before they got to attack - skull crushers never got to charge since I got pinned early on, but even without it they felt much better. that extra attack actually really made a big difference and combined with hordes of wrathmongers and a bloodsecrator they were pretty scary (10 attacks each can be nasty) Isn't Skullgrinder a named character? Or maybe not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeymajq Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 You might be thinking og Skulltaker. Skullgrinder is the anvil swinging madman 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) Oh the irony! The Skull Altar in 40k is for daemons. (well I guess to be fair World Eaters dont have their book yet) Spoiler Edited March 17, 2019 by kenshin620 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Wraith01 said: I have enough models to reshuffle and make it work. I can't wait to get the book and read it all. Nerfing Khorne could also have something to do with the overall narrative of AoS, Khorne has lost his grip on the Mortal Realms. Nagash is the main bad guy right now and Slanesh is probably going to come back and probably ascend in power. You might be right. I personally think that Games Workshop decided to bring it back more in line. I can also see why on a Warscroll basis they 'nerfed' Khorne. Reason being that adding 'Free Terrain' and 'Endless Spells' in an army that coped perfectly without it is a reason to weaken things. Lorewise I don't think power/effect matters too much. In that context I feel Stormcasts do way more in lore as they currently competitively do. Likewise, from a Order perspective it would then mean Daughters of Khaine versus Legions of Nagash would have been the main scary battle. This isn't the case.Khorne just changed, a lot We recieved a massive buff in our ranged offense, focused on Slaughterpriests, spoiled with amazing Endless Prayers and obtained a Terrain piece that can actually hide a Bloodsecrator, or other key characters. With this game a massive watering down of the melee combat functionality. However I will be the first to say that it's certainly still there. As mentioned before, the stuff I like is pretty much everything that doesn't cost 180 points. So why am I not huge on Skullreapers or Skullcrushers? - Because I feel Bloodletters at 30 and a Bloodthirster IR do pretty much the same, but are easier to fit because it prefectly fits the mandatory units. So far my only critique is that pretty much every Khorne unit does something similar now, moreso than ever. We did absolutely gain some amazing ranged offense, but most Khorne fans (I know) wern't really asking for it. Because Khorne is more of a warrior aspect and less of a Priest/Gunman aspect, but the latter is where the massive buffs are applied. 2 hours ago, Impa said: Seems like Skarbrand is going to be the biggest Mortal wound generator. 3 attacks with carnage if wholly within the range of bloodsecrator and wrathmongers. Keep him out of combat round one. Then he’s in Rage round 2. On a 1+ that’s an auto 24 mortal wounds with potential of being double that on 6’s with Carnage.. also with re rolling charges. High probability to get him into combat. And if for some reason that doesn’t crunch what you threw him at you’ve still got slaughter with 11 attacks and rend -2. Absolutely, Skarbrand is a great unit. He did lose his special character hunting functionality but became a much more allround all-kinds-of-units wrecking ball. I love it. Skulls for the throne of skulls! 2 hours ago, Grimrock said: I tried goofing around with a practice game, the wholly within bit on all the buffs is really difficult to deal with. My slaughterpriests regularly found themselves out of range for buffs while sticking to the altar, and the bloodstoker... I was base to base with a central model in a 6 man skullcrusher unit and it still couldn't whip them because one of the edge models was a half inch out. Positioning is going to be frustratingly important with this army. Surprisingly the bloodsecrator wasn't too bad since he can just run and chase the units you want to buff, but the reroll spells but didn't really come into play. Yep I feel ya, there is a gigantic difference between 24" and 16" within. Based on this it's also the infantry units I do like, but also fully expect the competitive Khorne focus to at least spend about 33% of army points in what I'd call ranged offense. Included in this ranged offense is: - Bloodthirser IR - Skullcannons with Wrathmonger combo - 2-3 Slaughterpriests with Magical Khorne symbol and Magical Khorne axe I know some are fans of the Skullcrushers, largely due to the 3+ save, but what I like is the stuff that forces opponents to come to us rather to drive them away. A Bloodthirster falls under that because it can fly. Both Skullcannons and Slaughterpriests fall under that because that ranged support needs to be taken out if you also present either 20-ish Bloodwarriors or 60-ish Bloodletters. Truely Bloodletters are back in my competitive book. 2 hours ago, Choombatta said: I do find it odd that they already felt the need to change the Bloodcrushers Murderous Charge ability from the Wrath and Rapture warscroll to what it is in this new battletome, but without seeing everything together in context, it may have been justified. Well it's fair to say it's practically the same... The only reason I think they changed it like this is that visually it feels more realistic and forces the unit to not fiddle with one model way in the front and others oddly in the back. Having said that I'm not huge on this type of cav anyway. 1 hour ago, Grimrock said: Actually I guess I'll just put up my other thoughts from my practice game. Here's my list: Skullgrinder (general) - reroll attacks trait - mark of the destroyer (just +2 attacks now) Bloodsecrator Slaughterpriest - killing frenzy Slaughterpriest - bronzed flesh skarre bloodwrath bloodstoker hexgorger skulls wrath axe 10 blood reavers x4 5 blood warriors 5 wrathmongers x3 6 skull crushers bloodforged batallion - wrathmongers, blood warriors, and skullgrinder - after wrathmongers fight for the firs time that phase, if wholly within 8 of skullgrinder and within 3 of enemy, pile in and fight again I was fighting against a nurgle blight cyst with daemon support in scorched earth. My impressions: - skullgrinder with +2-4 attacks and reroll to hit can really put the hurt out, and he doesn't have to worry about turning into a spawn anymore. I was thinking of trying +2 attack trait and gorecleiver next game for the extra rend and possibility of hitting for 6 damage - being able to place a relatively large piece of terrain is really nice, I used it to block off easy access to one of my outer objectives - judgements were ok but the range was a serious issue, even when playing on a tight deployment like scorched earth. if you want the most of them you need to put the altar right near the middle of the board - layers of blood reavers were great as screens and generated a lot of tithe (hasn't changed), and wrathmongers behind them were terrifying. one turn the wrathmongers attacked over a screen twice with buffs and almost totally wrecked a unit of blight kings before they got to attack - skull crushers never got to charge since I got pinned early on, but even without it they felt much better. that extra attack actually really made a big difference and combined with hordes of wrathmongers and a bloodsecrator they were pretty scary (10 attacks each can be nasty) I really like the large sum of this list. The only thing I think would improve it is dropping the Skulls and focussing on one or two big infantry units and/or that Skullcannon inclusion that is amazing with Wrathmongers. A big hammer like 10 Skullreapers or 30 Bloodletters presents a massive distraction and tank that can plow through. A Bloodthirster is a great choice for this purpose too. Basically anything that forces your opponent to come seems like a key role in this newer slower Khorne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezark_SP Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I gotta say I'm really excited for the new Khorne book not only did a buddy of mine "sucker" me into jumping into this game by giving me all the Khorne models from the starter set (too bad I wound up dedicating myself to Tzeench lol) but I have been recently collecting Beasts of Chaos now that my Tzeench army is done but now I'm really digging the idea of using the Brass Despoilers batallion (which gives all BoC in the battalion the KHORNE keyword, a global reroll 1s to hit, and a once per battle ability to reroll all failed wound rolls. So here's what I'm looking forward to trying out but I'd like to hear your thoughts! Battalion: Brass Despoilers 190 Heroes: Bloodsecrator (General) 140 Slaughtepriest 100 Doombull 120 Battleline: Gors x10 80 Gors x10 80 Bloodreavers x10 70 Other: Gorgon 200 Bestigors x30 300 Bullgors x3 160 Bullgors x3 160 Wrathmongers x5 180 Wrathmongers x5 180 40 points leftover for one of the new 40 point Judgements. At any given moment, the Doombull, Bestogors, Ghorgon, or Bullgors can have easy access to +2 attacks and rerolling 1s to hit while also getting to benefit from the Blood Tithe table. I'm not familiar with the new Khorne warlord traits or artifacts, but I assume there may be one that makes the general more survivable or move faster. The Bloodsecrator will get that, and I'm sure there will be an artifact that makes prayers/judgments easier to cast/more effective which I'll give to the Slaughterpriest. Since I'll have access to a 2nd Artifact of Power for bringing a Battalion I'll be looking for something that makes Blood Tithe points generate faster which the Bloodsecrator will get. I think what I want to try to do is generate as many Blood Tithe points as possible so that I can get Slaughter Triumphant ASAP. Also, I have a rules question: if I wanted to have my two units of Wrathmongers on either side of the 30 Bestigors, can the Bestigors get the +1 attack bonus as long as half of the unit is with range of one of the Wrathmongers and the other half is in range of the other Wrathmonger unit? If the answer is no, I may consider dropping one of the Wrathmongers in favor of a second Ghorgon or a group of 5 Skullreapers. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Reezark_SP said: Also, I have a rules question: if I wanted to have my two units of Wrathmongers on either side of the 30 Bestigors, can the Bestigors get the +1 attack bonus as long as half of the unit is with range of one of the Wrathmongers and the other half is in range of the other Wrathmonger unit? I think it has to be completely within one unit, not half and half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choombatta Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 44 minutes ago, Killax said: Well it's fair to say it's practically the same... The only reason I think they changed it like this is that visually it feels more realistic and forces the unit to not fiddle with one model way in the front and others oddly in the back. Having said that I'm not huge on this type of cav anyway. Actually, at least according to my copy of Wrath and Rapture, the Bloodcrushers Muderous Charge ability went from doing 1,D3,or D6 mortal wounds depending on how many models are in the TARGET unit, to doing 1 or D3 mortal wounds depending on how many models in the BLOODCRUSHER unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Can priests still cast one warscroll player + one book prayer or is it one overall? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimrock Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Killax said: I really like the large sum of this list. The only thing I think would improve it is dropping the Skulls and focussing on one or two big infantry units and/or that Skullcannon inclusion that is amazing with Wrathmongers. A big hammer like 10 Skullreapers or 30 Bloodletters presents a massive distraction and tank that can plow through. A Bloodthirster is a great choice for this purpose too. Basically anything that forces your opponent to come seems like a key role in this newer slower Khorne. I agree, removing the skull crushers will be the first thing I change. I'm not a fan of the Skullreapers right now, too expensive for what they do outside of a focused list, but I might try 3 khorgoraths and use the skullfiend tribe. Smaller footprint for buffs, up to 7 attacks each, 3+/3+/-1/2, and rerolling everything would be pretty crazy. A bloodthirster might work but I feel like they get the most out of the daemon focused batallions, so maybe take an Insensate (or Wrath of Khorne if they don't change the wrathmonger's ability), a unit of 30 bloodletters by dropping a few other units, and go with the Bloodlords or Reapers. 7 minutes ago, Xasz said: Can priests still cast one warscroll player + one book prayer or is it one overall? I'd love to know this too, and throw in the same question about judgements. If they can only cast one of the above it's going to make life a whole lot more difficult. Edited March 17, 2019 by Grimrock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 29 minutes ago, Choombatta said: Actually, at least according to my copy of Wrath and Rapture, the Bloodcrushers Muderous Charge ability went from doing 1,D3,or D6 mortal wounds depending on how many models are in the TARGET unit, to doing 1 or D3 mortal wounds depending on how many models in the BLOODCRUSHER unit. It's also now 1 or D3 per model that makes contact, not just the whole unit. That's a lot more mortal wounds (potential). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bululu Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Grimrock said: I agree, removing the skull crushers will be the first thing I change. I'm not a fan of the Skullreapers right now, too expensive for what they do outside of a focused list, but I might try 3 khorgoraths and use the skullfiend tribe. Smaller footprint for buffs, up to 7 attacks each, 3+/3+/-1/2, and rerolling everything would be pretty crazy. A bloodthirster might work but I feel like they get the most out of the daemon focused batallions, so maybe take an Insensate (or Wrath of Khorne if they don't change the wrathmonger's ability), a unit of 30 bloodletters by dropping a few other units, and go with the Bloodlords or Reapers. I'd love to know this too, and throw in the same question about judgements. If they can only cast one of the above it's going to make life a whole lot more difficult. you can roll all 3 with one priest, i mean 1 judgement, one slaughter priest warscroll prayer and 1 khorne blessing prayer Edited March 17, 2019 by Bululu 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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