AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion

[James S]

So work decided to ruin my tournament plans for the weekend. So while driving I started thinking about MSU and how our Ogors could fair using a completely different style of play.

Many of the things that I believe will be prevalent in the competitive scene will be the hard casting from Nagash, Tzeentch, and Seraphon. Runner up quite possibly could be Stormcast with the amount of stuff they have available. Then we will have the melee horde meta of DoK, Skeletons, and Anything that comes in big blocks of battleshock proof.

Got me to thinking how do we handle all this? What if we made a lot of small footprints that just slow down these tactics? Well placed small units can make big blocks all but useless. What happens when Nagash casts debuffs on one small unit that's not doing anything to begin with? Or Medusa stare rolling an entire three dice. 

It sounds neat in idea, but I imagine hard to play right and pull off. Hard counters are any of the big God heros since this tactic won't work. They will kill the small unit and move on and receive little damage in return. On the flip side, I think this play style will work well against things that can deepstrike. 

Really just thinking out loud and wanted to get thoughts from our competitive guys. I love running big blocks of Ogors, but I'm wondering if it's a trap. Especially now in a game where a single debuff can ruin our chances of doing anything.

Added a list to kind of show the thought process. Lack of battalions for second artifacts is really hurting us. Two Tyrants with split load outs would be so big for us. 

So as you see there is a ton of redundancy. No CP to start since this army now has no battleshock issues. CP can be saved for run and important charge rolls. I changed the loadout of the Tyrant. I dropped Ravager with the idea that it's not as important to get the movement to get our huge blocks into position. Now that he isn't a lynchpin to battleshock protection, should hopefully slide under the radar until he unleashes so wicked damage. Two Butchers are there for AoE buffs and to dispel while maybe getting off a Maw. Put the ES in for extra dispels. They will be targeted first. 

Uses the Ironfist Ogors to hold objectives or set up charges for our other harder hitting units. We have so many tools that we can deny entire board sides. It's also like an onion that has to be peeled. We still have the ability to overwhelm objectives with bodies as we see fit. 20 Grots are strictly for back table denial and objective holding.

Its a million drops but we rarely will win that anyway. List also doesn't care if you got first or not. Please share thoughts and ideas. It looks like a huge ass pain to play.

[Kramer]

10 hours ago, James S said:

So work decided to ruin my tournament plans for the weekend. So while driving I started thinking about MSU and how our Ogors could fair using a completely different style of play.

Many of the things that I believe will be prevalent in the competitive scene will be the hard casting from Nagash, Tzeentch, and Seraphon. Runner up quite possibly could be Stormcast with the amount of stuff they have available. Then we will have the melee horde meta of DoK, Skeletons, and Anything that comes in big blocks of battleshock proof.

Got me to thinking how do we handle all this? What if we made a lot of small footprints that just slow down these tactics? Well placed small units can make big blocks all but useless. What happens when Nagash casts debuffs on one small unit that's not doing anything to begin with? Or Medusa stare rolling an entire three dice. 

It sounds neat in idea, but I imagine hard to play right and pull off. Hard counters are any of the big God heros since this tactic won't work. They will kill the small unit and move on and receive little damage in return. On the flip side, I think this play style will work well against things that can deepstrike. 

Really just thinking out loud and wanted to get thoughts from our competitive guys. I love running big blocks of Ogors, but I'm wondering if it's a trap. Especially now in a game where a single debuff can ruin our chances of doing anything.

Added a list to kind of show the thought process. Lack of battalions for second artifacts is really hurting us. Two Tyrants with split load outs would be so big for us. 

So as you see there is a ton of redundancy. No CP to start since this army now has no battleshock issues. CP can be saved for run and important charge rolls. I changed the loadout of the Tyrant. I dropped Ravager with the idea that it's not as important to get the movement to get our huge blocks into position. Now that he isn't a lynchpin to battleshock protection, should hopefully slide under the radar until he unleashes so wicked damage. Two Butchers are there for AoE buffs and to dispel while maybe getting off a Maw. Put the ES in for extra dispels. They will be targeted first. 

Uses the Ironfist Ogors to hold objectives or set up charges for our other harder hitting units. We have so many tools that we can deny entire board sides. It's also like an onion that has to be peeled. We still have the ability to overwhelm objectives with bodies as we see fit. 20 Grots are strictly for back table denial and objective holding.

Its a million drops but we rarely will win that anyway. List also doesn't care if you got first or not. Please share thoughts and ideas. It looks like a huge ass pain to play.

I like the general tactic behind it. I usually take two butchers if I’m hoping on the +1 to hit. So my only doubt would be if two is practical? If you want to get him for some redundancy to get the endless spell of maybe the fungoid shaman would be better with his re-rolls on casting? Freeing up some additional points for another endless spel even. 

Otherwise it’s looks like an idea with potential but needs a couple of games to deliver a verdict  

 

*what does AoE stand for? 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Kramer

[James S]

@Kramer, AoE stands for area of effect. The idea behind the Butchers in this build is to sit them mid table projecting their possible 14" Cauldron buffs with just enough overlap to heal each other. I honestly think with so many small units on the table, rolling the 2 for the heals could be just as good as getting +1 to hit. 

I honestly don't know in the hyper competitive meta if we will even be able to get casts off or defend against them. I have had my share of games where I couldn't roll a 7 for the Maw. Now trying to get an endless spell off turn 1 could prove extremely difficult.

Really appreciate the feedback. Will be trying the list on Monday against Maggotkin again so we will see how it fairs. His list has a ton of casting.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, James S said:

@Kramer, AoE stands for area of effect.

Really appreciate the feedback. Will be trying the list on Monday against Maggotkin again so we will see how it fairs. His list has a ton of casting.

Thanks for the explanation! Sounds good with the overlap never thought of that. 

Let us know, lot of plaguebearers? That -1 is though, luckily drops below 20. Good luck! 

[James S]

The Big FAQ is up. Big changes to pile in. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by James S

[Davros]

Don't know why everyone thinks that is a change to pile in. It was written that way from the start, you can't wrap your unit around another unit but that was always the case. The rule was designed so you could shuffle a few guys so you could get more attacks in OR move around a big monster to encircle it.

 

Edit: Removed FAQ answer from core rules as the FAQ from Generals handbook means we are all good again, crisis averted.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Davros

[PlasticCraic]

@Davros I disagree, it's potentially a big change.  You can now lock people in place by putting 2+ models in base to base - so it's almost back to how it was in 1.0, where you could lock people in position.  Difference being you now need 2 models instead of 1 to do so. 

Before this FAQ (but after 2.0 dropped) a lot of people were playing that you couldn't be locked in place at all, because you could end the same distance (0.0") away from any of the models you were in contact with - as they were all joint closest.

[PlasticCraic]

Also this one is from the GH 2018 Errata, seems to be saying the FAQ you quoted is only for armies with Allegiance stuff?  So Leadbelchers would be ok based on that?

Page 62 – Pitched Battle Profile, Introduction Add the following section: ‘ARMIES WITHOUT ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES If a faction army does not have a set of allegiance abilities, then you can use its Grand Alliance allegiance abilities instead. For example, if you had an Eshin army you could use the Grand Alliance Chaos allegiance abilities, and if you had an Order Draconis army you could use the Grand Alliance Order allegiance abilities. Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army, you must use them.

[Davros]

1 minute ago, PlasticCraic said:

@Davros I disagree, it's potentially a big change.  You can now lock people in place by putting 2+ models in base to base - so it's almost back to how it was in 1.0, where you could lock people in position.  Difference being you now need 2 models instead of 1 to do so. 

Before this FAQ (but after 2.0 dropped) a lot of people were playing that you couldn't be locked in place at all, because you could end the same distance (0.0") away from any of the models you were in contact with - as they were all joint closest.

I understand that some people where playing it that way, i never did as i always saw this interpritatiom as incorrect from the start. Also the store where i played at had both of these rulings, i know gw is ambigus with their rules sometimes but the wording on this one was correct. People where getting the wrong idea from comments on the community site.

 

Also My other comment is incorrect i need to get rid of it. GW and their constant dumb idea to have rules in 18 different places.

[Davros]

4 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Also this one is from the GH 2018 Errata, seems to be saying the FAQ you quoted is only for armies with Allegiance stuff?  So Leadbelchers would be ok based on that?

Page 62 – Pitched Battle Profile, Introduction Add the following section: ‘ARMIES WITHOUT ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES If a faction army does not have a set of allegiance abilities, then you can use its Grand Alliance allegiance abilities instead. For example, if you had an Eshin army you could use the Grand Alliance Chaos allegiance abilities, and if you had an Order Draconis army you could use the Grand Alliance Order allegiance abilities. Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army, you must use them.

Yes you are correct. After reading the core rules FAQ i saw red and stopped reading the FAQ's for a while.

 

GW has done a great job in answering and fixing problems in the game, but really need to clean up the mess of books there are.

To play AOS 2.0 pitched battle you need 3 rulebooks plus the faq AND commentary for them (6 additional documents) plus the battletomes for the armies your using and the faq AND commentary for them for a total of up to 15 books/documents so you can make sure you are playing the game correctly. This is Just obsurd.

[PlasticCraic]

I wouldn't disagree mate, it's getting a bit disjointed.  It's almost like they need a hard reset, maybe even move to a new edition...oh wait.

[James S]

This was the standard way of making pile in moves in AoS 1.0. Nothing changed until this FAQ that states if you are within an inch you have to go to that model. That means no more shuffling around large units of Ogors to get into combat. That's pretty huge. Small units and 2" reach are just went up in value.

@Davros, just because you interpreted it one way doesn't mean the community as a whole did the same. In the competitive environment you do everything that is possible within the rules because your opponent is doing the exact same. That's just the way it is.

For sure now with 40mm bases and 1" reach, MSU will be a thing for our Ogors. Guts can get around this with that 2" reach which now made that a lot more valuable.

 

[amysrevenge]

8 minutes ago, James S said:

 

For sure now with 40mm bases and 1" reach, MSU will be a thing for our Ogors. Guts can get around this with that 2" reach which now made that a lot more valuable.

You mean "more valuable" than in the couple of weeks between the release of AoS 2 and the FAQ, right, not more valuable than in AoS1?  Because piling-in is still mostly the same as it was in AoS1, except that it's slightly easier to spread around now than it was in AoS1 (but more difficult than it was in those couple of weeks, *if* you interpreted the pile-in rules to let you pick which base-contact model was closest rather than treating all base-contact models as equally close).

 

ETA:  Perhaps the "within one inch" example is what's causing trouble?  That's just an example, not a rule somehow adding an additional 1" factor into piling-in.  The example is: If I am 0.73" inches away from Enemy Model A, can I make a pile-in move that takes me farther away from Enemy Model A as long as I end up 0.73" or closer to Enemy Model B?  (And the answer is:  No, you have to end up 0.73" or closer to Enemy Model A).

Edited July 24, 2018 by amysrevenge

[Mincemeat]

Have a tournament coming up and I'm liking the MSU ideas coming up, so thinking of using one big group of 12 Ogors with double clubs, and 2 ogor layer cakes consisting of 3 bulls with iron fists, 3 Ironguts and 3 leadbelchers with the idea being that the bulls fight at the front, the Ironguts behind and the leadbelchers firing in behind that. The big blob acts as a distraction while these little formations grab objectives and get work done. Might throw in a stonehorn for more distracting. What do you guys reckon? 

[James S]

Had a game this afternoon against a tournament ready Seraphon list. Thunderquake with Astrolith and Dread Saurian. Played the bouncing objective scenario. I tried a MSU style list with a few different Endless Spells. Came in at 1990. Lost 8-4 at the end of turn 4.

Talk about a game where I felt I was never in it. Skink chaff after chaff just kept my units stuck.  The idea of the MSU is to stick units in combat with you. Couldn't do that at all this game. Would just teleport out. On turn three the objective bounced into his monster castle so that was game then. We just played it out so he could practice.

I don't want to play by play this one because it was just bad. So I'll go over what I took away. First game not taking Ravager. Didn't roll a Destruction movement until turn 3. Endless Spells, never got off Shackles because it just got dispelled by the Slann. Turn 1 got off the Palisade and the Maelstrom. Plopped the Palisade right in front of one Bastilidon and it stayed there all game just being a nuisance. Maelstrom much to my dismay exploded at the end of 1 and I was never able to recast it. The hard 7 sucks ass when that is the bulk of your magic defense. The Burning head ended up doing more damage to me than my opponent. The rerolls to hit on Ironguts were nice though. Took 3 turns to cast it.

So all in all I had no answer for that list. He just generated summon after summon and his shooting was brutal. I asked him what I could have done and he said my army is just too slow. A mission where we have to chase an objective 12" at a time seems a bit much. Hopefully someone can share some insight on this mission and maybe help me with what I'm doing wrong.

Todays beat down really wore me out and was an eye opener to how much summoning can control your entire game. Maybe taking the Swords is my best bet for sniping out the Slann. Gonna give it a try again tomorrow.

PS: with MSU, I had no battleshock issues which was nice to allow our CP for charges and run rolls.

 

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah Seraphon is really strong right now.  Between their extensive summoning, amazing allegiance abilities, redeploy shenanigans, barrage of useful battalions which gives them access to multiple artefacts and command points, and huge army range that somehow avoided being split up when AOS started out…they have all the tools for success that we conspicuously lack.

Just a thought, but could dropping one unit of Ironguts and putting in two more units of Grots help with board control?  Especially if you can use the command abilities for the 6” run to help you spread out.  And allies can help a little bit with speed (run + charge on Stonehorn Beastriders for example, or maybe Mournfang)…likewise Cogs?  Although it does sound like you will be badly up against it in this matchup regardless.

FWIW my personal belief is that the FAQ they brought out last year was a mistake, where they said a redeploy out of combat does not count as retreating.  They took something that was already an incredibly powerful toolkit, and just made it no-brainer easy mode.

[James S]

On 7/28/2018 at 5:21 PM, Mincemeat said:

Have a tournament coming up and I'm liking the MSU ideas coming up, so thinking of using one big group of 12 Ogors with double clubs, and 2 ogor layer cakes consisting of 3 bulls with iron fists, 3 Ironguts and 3 leadbelchers with the idea being that the bulls fight at the front, the Ironguts behind and the leadbelchers firing in behind that. The big blob acts as a distraction while these little formations grab objectives and get work done. Might throw in a stonehorn for more distracting. What do you guys reckon? 

Give it a go and let us know how it performs. Only way to figure out what works for us is to try different things. My only issue with MSU is that it involves a lot of decision making which is a weakness for me. But that is something I have to deal with. Maybe it will work better for you.

[James S]

1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah Seraphon is really strong right now.  Between their extensive summoning, amazing allegiance abilities, redeploy shenanigans, barrage of useful battalions which gives them access to multiple artefacts and command points, and huge army range that somehow avoided being split up when AOS started out…they have all the tools for success that we conspicuously lack.

Just a thought, but could dropping one unit of Ironguts and putting in two more units of Grots help with board control?  Especially if you can use the command abilities for the 6” run to help you spread out.  And allies can help a little bit with speed (run + charge on Stonehorn Beastriders for example, or maybe Mournfang)…likewise Cogs?  Although it does sound like you will be badly up against it in this matchup regardless.

FWIW my personal belief is that the FAQ they brought out last year was a mistake, where they said a redeploy out of combat does not count as retreating.  They took something that was already an incredibly powerful toolkit, and just made it no-brainer easy mode.

Yea I don't want to be that guy that sees Seraphon across the table and just shakes hands so I can go enjoy myself. And that is honestly where I feel I am against them.

Im using what I have painted right now. Last couple weeks had a lot of personal stuff happen and got no hobby done. My main list I was prepping for is half built and not painted. I don't know how much time I'll have left to try and get anything else done. Also need my list turned in by end of month. So I'm pretty screwed. I went from super excited for this event to not at all. Especially knowing all the last month of practice games with a list were for nothing.

Im playing my hyper competitive buddy tomorrow and he wants to make changes to the list. So we will see what happens. I'll post results.

[James S]

Afternoon all. Got in another practice game today against my Maggotkin buddy. I scrapped that last list and started over. This list has some MSU elements but with a big core. Pretty happy with it. Played well and was surprisingly resilient. List will be attached.

Mission we played was Better Part of Valor. Scenery we rolled was inconsequential. His list was GUO w/ bell, Glottkin, Spume w/ 10 Blightkings, 40 Plague rats, 30 Plague Bearers, 5 Blight Kings. He finished deploying first. Chose to go first.

Turn 1 he got every buff up on the rats and launched them across the table. Brought in Spume and the Kings on my right flank 9 from my Guts holding the objective. He gets the charge with those Kings and burns my objective turn 1. Terrible start. The Rats hit my Grot wall but catch one of my Gut units due to poor placement. He kills the Guts on mortal wounds alone from Blades. Also wipes the Grot wall. My Tyrant was behind the line and moves in. Does 12 damage, killing six because of the +1 wound Spell. He uses his command point to stop battleshock. This is big.

My turn 1. Cast Shackles on my right flank blocking  the way between terrain and board edge, spaced enough that they are stuck in its 6" bubble almost all game. Get Maelostrom off and sit it right between Glottkin and his GUO. Fail with Swords. Destruction movement failed me all game. Never got one single movement off. Cauldrons did reliably well giving +1 hit to a unit a turn. This turn giving it to the 12 Ogors. I had 3 Leadbelchers sitting in front of my 12 Ogors. I moved them to the left to open a charge into the rats. Ran my Guts on the right flank away from the Kings. Set up to buy my time blocking a lane between scenery. Two units of Guts on left flank move up to set up a turn 2 push onto his objective. My Tyrant flees and joins these units. Shooting does nothing. Ogors charge into the rats. Kill 22. Between the explosions and hitting back he kills 4. Lose another three to battleshock. He has no CP for the rats and the horde flees. Board is now open.

He wins the turn. He won every turn. Chooses to go first. I move the Maelstrom dead center between two scenery pieces in front of Glottkin. He now has to go around his own tree. He burns his back objective on my right side and moves up his Kings which he charges in.  They will be outside of the 6" of my objective. His big unit of Kings on the other side of the board are slowed and stuck. Tried to make a charge around terrain either Glottkin that fails. He fails to kill any of my Guts and I kill two Kings in return. 

My turn 2. Get Swords off and throw it at Glottkin. Takes 4 wounds. I get two healing Cauldron rolls that heal multiple units and my Tyrant.  Do some moving around to protect my objectives. I forgot to mention his 30 PBs are on the far objective on my right side. They did nothing all game. I move the Leadbelchers and what was left of my Ogors up to ready for turn 3 push onto his center objective only protected by the GUO.  Charge Tyrant into the 3 kings in combat with my Guts. Charge in other left flank Guts into Glottkin to hold him. They are +1 to hit from cauldron. Start with this combat and do 9 damage to Glottkin. His swing back kills two Guts. Tyrant ****** the bed and does no damage in his combat.  Just takes some in return. Down to his last wound. Other Guts in this combat clean up the remaining Kings.

Turn 3 begins and he wins the roll. Goes first so I move the Swords across him next to the last Gut blocking his movement when the Gut dies. Do 3 more wounds to Glottkin. He moves the Maelstrom out of the way but still ends within 12" of his own casters. He moved the 10 man King unit when I fail the 3+ snare and tries for a big charge. He comes up an inch short. Whew! That was almost into my mid objective. He moves up his GUO to stop me from getting to his objective. He's just standing in front of it at this point. Not much else happens. He kills my last Gut in combat with Glottkin but is still stuck. 

My turn 3, highlight is I charge the GUO with my 5 Ogors. Use my pile in to slide down his base and get two Ogors into his objective. I burn it. He kills two Ogors during that melee. Still have three tying him up. End of turn and he concedes.

Another match where I thought it was over turn 1. Losing an objective and getting the rats all in my lines was brutal. But the Grots did what they do best and died so my Ogors could live.

My Endless Spells are set. Much utility. Maelstrom never exploded but I didn't want it to. It was a great blocking piece and chance at unbind. Swords are great for 20pts for an army that can't reach out and hurt people.

Hope to get a lot of play time next couple weeks in prep for the tournament. Still a lot to learn on playing MSU.

As always, feedback is greatly appreciated!

[Antonio Rodrigues]

Hi!

What do you guys think about the Bruiser Standart Bearer?

Not technically "gutbuster", but still ogor, and I think he is pretty good for its points!

Cost 140, 7 wounds, hero keyword, 3+ to hit, one smaĺ shooting attack with the pistol, and can throw d3 MW on a 4+ at 24" range, with a good área of effect... He is like an one man, more accurate Ironblaster....

And the Overtyrant? His hability could be quite interesting against some armies and situations...

What do you think of them? 

Cheers

AJ

[James S]

45 minutes ago, Antonio Rodrigues said:

Hi!

What do you guys think about the Bruiser Standart Bearer?

Not technically "gutbuster", but still ogor, and I think he is pretty good for its points!

Cost 140, 7 wounds, hero keyword, 3+ to hit, one smaĺ shooting attack with the pistol, and can throw d3 MW on a 4+ at 24" range, with a good área of effect... He is like an one man, more accurate Ironblaster....

And the Overtyrant? His hability could be quite interesting against some armies and situations...

What do you think of them? 

Cheers

AJ

I've used multiple BSBs in lists. They are pretty nice for the points. Going Destuction allegiance doesn't really change much. Overall I rate it good. But being compendium, I don't bother. 

I have 0 play experience with Greaseus.

[James S]

Evening all! Got a game in today against a tournament ready Clan Pestilence list. 200 wounds of it. We drew Shifting Objectives for the mission. He won the roll off and also deployed first. He was three drops with two battalions. This is the second game with my new list. 

He let me go first. I tried to set up for his charges and also score points. Put Shackles right in the middle of the mid objective. It made movement here an ass pain, but I thought it was worth it. Did lose an Ogor to the proc late game though. I made a huge error with two of my Butchers and didn't measure them from the Grots. His turn he took all the objectives back with a tide of bodies. The Butchers got pulled into combat bottom of 1 as my Grot wall took major casualties. Had four left. He double turned me going into 2. This was brutal and I think where the game was won honestly. Two Butchers died and took some other losses.

Bottom of 2, my Ogor unit is drawn into combat also. Tyrant makes his way in and drops 18 damage on activation. I work on clearing out my right side. Using all my Gut units on the left to tie up rats as best I can. Losing 9-7 end of the turn. He wins priority. 

Turn 3 the main objective stays in my right side so I have bodies controlling. That is until he retreats a big unit of rats and spending a CP for 6" run. They moved 15". It was crazy. I thought I had built a good wall but he just went around it all with so much movement. He now got  He main also. He scores 4 more points.

Bottom of 3 I retreat a single Ogor to the left objective and take it. I have his rats on that side tied up away from the objective. Finally get off Quicksilver Swords and do 6 mortals to his General. He saves one and has one wound left. So that slows my Ogors and forces them to pile in to combat. I am able to lock a big block of rats in a bad position with them also.

And this is where it all goes to ******. Kill 4 rats with all my shooting. Charge my Tyrant, Leadbelchers, and Butcher to clear the right side objective that is the main one right now. Tyrant rolls all 1s, Leadbelchers kill 3 rats, and the Butcher kills 1. He didn't even lose any to battleshock. He holds the objective still end of my turn. I only get 2 points. He is up 13-9 at this point. 

Turn 4 objective moves to my left side with 1 Gut on it. He wins priority and takes it. He has enough bodies to just take it with a retreat move on that side to ensure atleast 3 points. I concede. 

Gave it a great try. The MSU did exactly what it was meant to do and that is slow down blocks of baddies. Getting doubled and never a chance to double back was hard to recover from. Swords was good again, just took 3 turns to get it going. Never got Maelstrom off. 

Learned a hard lesson on measuring my Butchers. That was an awful mistake that cost my army a lot. Got pretty frustrated with myself on that one. Hopefully I can learn from that mistake. 

Hope y'all enjoyed the read. Critique and advice always welcome. Only a couple more weeks till Wargames Con.

Pic is from bottom of turn 1 where you can see my errors. Lol. 

[PlasticCraic]

Excellent batrep @James S, sounds like you are getting a lot out of your games at the moment even if it is heavy going! 

I think this is a great illustration of how we suffer from lack of batallions. 

Never decide who goes first with a foot slogging army -> do precious little Turn 1 -> get double turned in a crucial early turn

It's that crushing spiral we are all too familiar with!  The BOBO pack which was a roll off for first turn (+1 for whoever finished deploying first) was maybe a bit fairer on armies that haven't been blessed with much in the way of tech?

Would allied Stonehorn Beastriders help for first turn shock value if you get put in?  I guess it's only going to get you so far...pretty easy to screen against.

What's next for this list?

[James S]

22 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Excellent batrep @James S, sounds like you are getting a lot out of your games at the moment even if it is heavy going! 

I think this is a great illustration of how we suffer from lack of batallions. 

Never decide who goes first with a foot slogging army -> do precious little Turn 1 -> get double turned in a crucial early turn

It's that crushing spiral we are all too familiar with!  The BOBO pack which was a roll off for first turn (+1 for whoever finished deploying first) was maybe a bit fairer on armies that haven't been blessed with much in the way of tech?

Would allied Stonehorn Beastriders help for first turn shock value if you get put in?  I guess it's only going to get you so far...pretty easy to screen against.

What's next for this list?

Hey @PlasticCraic! Yea man. Getting a lot of time on the table and really pushing what I can do with the Ogors. 

Not choosing who goes first is one less decision I have to make. Lol. I'm really hoping to go second if I get the chance depending on mission really. I am a believer in getting on objectives early and scoring as much as possible. Hindsight on that double turn, I most likely would have lost my Butchers even if I hadn't made that measuring mistake. Need to play them back a bit more but still in Cauldron MW range from the Grot wall. I think.

I loved the way the BOBO did their roll off. That was next level stuff.

i would have to give up to screen units to get the Stonehorn in. I'm afraid it would be deleted first turn. One of the cool things about this army is there really aren't any value targets for your opponent. Forces decision making on their part to decided what they think is dangerous. Then I react accordingly.

Next for the list is a game tomorrow. More practice will hopefully lead to more better playing. Lol. I'm still learning how to use the Endless Spells right. Especially shackles. I seem to get my own army gummed up in them a lot. Tips are always appreciated.

 

 

[James S]

Got another game today with my Maggotkin buddy. His same list prepping for the tournament. Glottkin w Blades, GUO w Bell, Gutrot w 10 Blight Kings, 5 Blightkings, 30 Plague Bearers, 40 Plague Rats.

We drew mission and got Shifting Objectives. I better be good at this mission by now. I won the roll and picked the side with Damn terrain. It's the nearest piece of terrain in the pic below. You can see my deployment. That pic is from the end of his movement turn 1. He deployed first and chose to go first.

Turn 1 he moves his entire army up. Puts 30 PBs on my right side objective, this is the main objective this turn. Moved up the rest of us army to claim the others, drops Spume and the 10 Kings in front of my 12 Ogor unit. He makes the 9" charge and places his dudes in a way that doesn't bring in my Tyrant. He only has 1 king in combat. He kills a few Grots and lose a couple to Battleshock. I removed them from the Kings and now my Grots are out of combat. He goes up 5-0

My turn I cast Shackles and place it to the left of the Nurgle Tree. This chokes off his PBs in the corner that I charge two units of three Guts into with a Butcher 6" out. Get Swords off as well and place it between Gutrot and Glottkin. Do 4 mortals to Gutrot. Try to shoot him off and fail with everything. He's just standing in the charge lane between his Kings and the end of the Rat line. So my Tyrant is just standing around now. Run the Grots and move a unit of Guts up to the corner of the building in the middle. 3" away from the rats but within 6" of the objective. Charge the Guts into the side of the rats. Grots stay behind. Roll the dice for my Ogors to make their 3" charge into the big unit of Kings. I roll double 1s. Already used my CP to bully the Grots. That was where the game went away. Started grinding on PBs, lost a couple Guts to rats.

Turn two and I win the roll. Main objective stays. He uses Swords against me and I take 3 MW on my Butcher. Get Maelstrom off and sit it right between is casters. I dispel Swords with my mid Butcher and with my last Butcher cast it again. Get the last wounds on Gutrot and now he is out of the way. Placed it right next to the rat flank so that I can sit my Tyrant next to it and protect me from a rat pile in. Movement sees me run away the lone Gut and make room to charge in the other Gut unit. Grots are still hanging out trying to catch that mid objective. I FORGET to move my 12 Ogors. I could have walked that around the Kings and been between them and the objtive before charging. That was a mistake that cost me the game.  Shooting is abysmal, kill a couple rats. Charge rats with Tyrant and fresh Guts on the flanks. Kill three rats with my Tyrant. Kill a few more with the Guts, Tyrant takes a beating but the Guts just s couple wounds. The two units of IronGuts are brutalizing the PBs. Enough so that I have more models in range to take the objective. I charge with Ogors and kill a few Kings. I screwed up so bad with this unit today. I end up scoring 3 points. So it's 5-3 going into bottom of 2. My Tyrant dies, combat with the Ogors is going badly, we each have 1 dude left in that left corner out of each other's combat. He kills the unit of Guts with the rats also. They are now free from combat. The rest of his PBs died from damage and battleshock. I own the right side of the board going to turn 3. He now is up 7-3.

I win the roll. But the objective goes to the far left which is his. I take the turn. He moves the Swords away from so I can't dispel. I dispel Shackles so I can move freely to the mid objective. Send both Gut units and the Butcher. I recast it all around Glottkin and in his rat conga line. Buff up my Leadbelchers with Cauldron +hits to ready the charge. I charge the Leadbelchers and set them up on the right flank of the rats, helping me score the mid with the Grots and now Guts that have come over to charge his hiding unit of 5 Blight Kings. The last Ogor charges the other flank. After this combat and battleshock ther are less that 10 rats left. But i lose the last Ogor and 1 Beltcher. My Guts get bogged down with the Kings. I never remember to activate my Irongut ability the ENTIRE game. I just can't remember to do it in the hero phase. Can't remember to use the Damned terrain either. That "beginning" of the hero phase kills me. So I score two more points, now 7-4 for my opponent going into his turn. Maelstrom exploded and does some damage. So no more unbinding right before his turn.

Bottom of three he unbinds Shackles to free Glottkin. He runs his rats away to the main objective. He triple charges my Leadbelchers, Grots, and a Butcher with Glottkin. Kills the Leadbelchers, and does a couple wounds to the other units. Somewhere in here the GUO goes to stop my left side Butcher from advancing on that objective. Does a couple wounds. I finish up the last of the Blightkings in the middle. I still hold the other two. So he goes up 10-4.

Turn 4 is big. Not only do I lose priority, the objective stays on the only one he has. So he will autoscore his 3 points. I try to use he out of action Swords to clear the rats but only kill a couple. No way to stop him from scoring that point so we call it. 

What a doozy of a game. I made some awful mistakes this game. Geez. I think my mind shut off after that double 1 to charge. I tried to get my stuff together I just didn't get any luck with the objectives mid game. Held two out of the three for two turns and didn't get the main for that period was pretty much game. Especially after he was able to jump out to such a fast start. 

Competent players will get up early in this scenario and it's much easier to do as a low drop army. 

Think I played my Endless Spells much better. Still doing MW to myself but I guess that's the price I'm going to have to pay. All three did their job, Maelstrom being the least useful mainly because I can't roll an unbind to save my life.

Two units of 3 Guts backed up by a Butcher made for a pretty good beatstick. Using the Shackles right to keep the return damage low was extremely helpful. 

Hope you enjoyed the battle report. Was another great game. Hopefully I can get these stupid mistakes out of the way now, before the tournament.

 

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by James S
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