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AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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26 minutes ago, brobdingguts said:

I haven't really played with the Gutgouger to really have an opinion. Also, I don't have a Bragg model or the drive to model one for a Tyrant.

 

Should I be looking into it? I realize that a good synergy is Might is Right and another +1 to wound artifact with the Gutgouger, but would that be enough for fewer attacks?

No worries bud. Was just curious. I actually run my Tyrant with GutGouger with the same trait and artifact as you. It's one less attack, but 5+ doing double damage. If you get the right big name, it goes to 4+. Also an extra inch of reach. And we know how important that extra inch is!

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13 hours ago, James S said:

No worries bud. Was just curious. I actually run my Tyrant with GutGouger with the same trait and artifact as you. It's one less attack, but 5+ doing double damage. If you get the right big name, it goes to 4+. Also an extra inch of reach. And we know how important that extra inch is!

Technically, assuming Ghyrstike and Wild fury on both, I think the gutgouger pulls slightly ahead of the great club, and slightly more again after 3 wounds (in terms of average damage output).

I have also switched to this set up (ghyrstrike, wild fury and gutgouger) on my primary tyrant. Big names is a bit situational, because fate seeker is great but doesn’t help with damage output per turn; however, if I roll a six I am likely to choose brawlerguts.

In terms of a second (I.e. “naked”) tyrant, I would go for double clubs - and if I get to choose, the giant breaker big name.

At 2.5k, I often run 3 tyrants; the gutgouger general runs with a large block of 12 ogors, and stands in the middle with 3” range (having bullied them), the double club runs with 6 allied brawlers maneaters, and then a great club tyrant runs with a unit of Ironguts. My optimal big name spread would then be gutgouger: brawlerguts, double club: giantbreaker, great club: fateseeker. Not that I’ve quite managed that - think the odds of getting what you want on 3 tyrants is one in every 27 games!

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2 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Technically, assuming Ghyrstike and Wild fury on both, I think the gutgouger pulls slightly ahead of the great club, and slightly more again after 3 wounds (in terms of average damage output).

I have also switched to this set up (ghyrstrike, wild fury and gutgouger) on my primary tyrant. Big names is a bit situational, because fate seeker is great but doesn’t help with damage output per turn; however, if I roll a six I am likely to choose brawlerguts.

In terms of a second (I.e. “naked”) tyrant, I would go for double clubs - and if I get to choose, the giant breaker big name.

At 2.5k, I often run 3 tyrants; the gutgouger general runs with a large block of 12 ogors, and stands in the middle with 3” range (having bullied them), the double club runs with 6 allied brawlers maneaters, and then a great club tyrant runs with a unit of Ironguts. My optimal big name spread would then be gutgouger: brawlerguts, double club: giantbreaker, great club: fateseeker. Not that I’ve quite managed that - think the odds of getting what you want on 3 tyrants is one in every 27 games!

I like your style! Wish we had some battalion options to kit out more than one Tyrant. I think it would give us a lot more useful options.Our Tyrants can be very squishy against a lot of the new stuff and having some redundancy would be nice. 

Once your opponents realize what a wrecking ball he is, they start gunning for him.

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14 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

At 2.5k, I often run 3 tyrants

That's awesome!  I have never run multiple Tyrants before, but I guess you could stack Bully, and force your opponent to kill ALL your Tyrants before you start taking Battleshock.

Especially if you roll low on the first D3 damage, and / or heal it back up with the Cauldron.

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5 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I've got a game this Friday night, looking to get my Bonegrinder on the table. 

Should I run Gutbusters allegiance with him as the sole Ally, or take Destruction with 3x Ogors Battleline, and run a couple of "shorties" (normal Aleguzzlers) alongside him?

Let's see some list ideas!

Would like to get 20 Grots in there but lately my Tyrants have been dying way too fast and the Grots are running away.

A lot of big damage targets in the list. Use the Guts and screens and redirectors.  

The Bonegrinder is the only competitive Gargant. It doesn't have that foolish fall down rule on the charge.

IMG_2834.PNG

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I was thinking maybe this, with the board control spells to make up for the lack of bodies:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gutbusters
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Great Gutgouger
- Trait: Might is Right
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)

Battleline
12 x Ogors (400)
- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
6 x Ironguts (360)
3 x Leadbelchers (140)

Units
1 x Gorgers (60)

Behemoths
Bonegrinder Gargant (400)
- Allies

Endless Spells
Prismatic Palisade (30)
Suffocating Gravetide (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

 

Or maybe this version with the Gnoblars:


 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gutbusters
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Great Gutgouger
- Trait: Might is Right
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)

Battleline
12 x Ogors (400)
- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
6 x Ironguts (360)
3 x Leadbelchers (140)

Units
40 x Grots (200)

Behemoths
Bonegrinder Gargant (400)
- Allies

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 400 / 400
Wounds: 162


 

 

Edited by PlasticCraic
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I like both those lists. Look like two completely different armies with just a few things changed out. It will come down to which one you will enjoy playing more.

I love min sized units of Guts when you use them for their purpose. Not meant to kill things, just be a forward fear inducing unit that's meant to tie up your opponent while you set up your counter charge. Always pick a corner and only put one in base to base with the other two behind him swinging over. Minimizes their pile in and attacks coming back. Next turn when you charge with your big stuff you can retreat them out and move onto another target to tie up or get them in threatening heroes. Hopefully that makes sense.

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I should caveat what I’m about to say with  the fact that I have never fielded a bonegrinder, so I’m speaking mainly from ignorance on this one! But...

I’m struggling a bit to see what the Bonegrinder’s role is. As a single model, he has a good amount of wounds, a bit of mw output, and a decent amount of 2 damage rend attacks - with a neat pick-your-fight movement ability much like yetis. However, for his cost, he is nowhere near as durable as say 12 ogres, and nowhere near as hitty as say 6 maneaters. I think maybe he is at his best against units of 5 or more, medium armoured, maybe even 2 wound models (so some stormcast, for example)? Particularly where you can organise things to pile him in last and deny attacks.

so, if we’re treating him as durable shock troop, in effect, then the rest of your army should balance that. Big block of 12 ogors is probably a good idea, you can use as an anvil to the bonegrinder hammer if needed. Think I’d have an accompanying beat stick, so again, 6 Ironguts not a bad choice. 3 leadbelchers is too small for me, even if paying battleline tax, and I don’t think you need 3 butchers when their impact on the Gargant is minimal, so in the first list maybe switch out a butcher to give you 6 leadbelchers and a slightly more flexible unit.

Dont know what to say about Grots; they don’t seem to feel quite right with this list - maybe because you have a big footprint of ogors, and then a large bonegrinder base to negotiate around the battlefield. 

Playing a mainly Gargant list with some ogors for battleline sounds fun, but in the way that playing goblins in bloodbowl sounds fun ?

Edited by Baron Wastelands
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4 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

I should caveat what I’m about to say with  the fact that I have never fielded a bonegrinder, so I’m speaking mainly from ignorance on this one! But...

I’m struggling a bit to see what the Bonegrinder’s role is

His role is a massive shiny new toy I spent time pinning and gluing and want to get on the table as quickly as possible :D

The main tabletop reason for using him is basically the Yhetee pile in.  Most turns you should be able to engineer it that you hit first with one of your combat units, keep him out of range then hit first with him too.  Maybe even cheekily over the top of a Palisade if you use that, with the 3" range. 

It's debatable whether or not he's better than 9x Yhetees (might be a good discussion topic for your show @James S?), but I'm looking forward to finding out.

4 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

so, if we’re treating him as durable shock troop, in effect, then the rest of your army should balance that. Big block of 12 ogors is probably a good idea, you can use as an anvil to the bonegrinder hammer if needed. Think I’d have an accompanying beat stick, so again, 6 Ironguts not a bad choice. 3 leadbelchers is too small for me, even if paying battleline tax, and I don’t think you need 3 butchers when their impact on the Gargant is minimal, so in the first list maybe switch out a butcher to give you 6 leadbelchers and a slightly more flexible unit.

Yeah you could neatly swap out 140pt Butcher + 140pt Leadbelchers + 60pt Gorger + 60pt Endless Spells = 400pt second block of Ogors.  Which is essentially what @James S came up with.  I might give something like that a try next.

I do think you can justify multiple Butchers in the list because you have multiple legitimate targets for the +1 to hit (Ironguts, Ogors, maybe the Tyrant if he's been debuffed).  So even if you double-pop the Cauldron there is good use for it.  I like multiple Butchers so you have a reasonable chance of getting the result you need, but even then I usually pump out a heap of mortal wounds turn 1 when nobody is nearby, then switch to rolling 1s when they are up in range!  That diciness (similar to the Big Name) is one of the things I'd like to see tidied up if and when we get some attention as a faction.

4 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Playing a mainly Gargant list with some ogors for battleline sounds fun, but in the way that playing goblins in bloodbowl sounds fun ?

This made me chuckle :D I don't disagree!

I'll let you guys know how it goes.  Maybe not many photos though, my Gutbusters are mostly unpainted (the shame!).  I think finishing them will be next on the agenda after I finish up my Star Wars Legion stuff.

Edited by PlasticCraic
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15 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

It's debatable whether or not he's better than 9x Yhetees (might be a good discussion topic for your show @James S?), but I'm looking forward to finding out.

Yeah you could neatly swap out 140pt Butcher + 140pt Leadbelchers + 60pt Gorger + 60pt Endless Spells = 400pt second block of Ogors.  Which is essentially what @James S came up with.  I might give something like that a try next.

I do think you can justify multiple Butchers in the list because you have multiple legitimate targets for the +1 to hit (Ironguts, Ogors, maybe the Tyrant if he's been debuffed).  So even if you double-pop the Cauldron there is good use for it.  I like multiple Butchers so you have a reasonable chance of getting the result you need, but even then I usually pump out a heap of mortal wounds turn 1 when nobody is nearby, then switch to rolling 1s when they are up in range!  That diciness (similar to the Big Name) is one of the things I'd like to see tidied up if and when we get some attention as a faction.

If i were to choose the Gargant or x9 Yhetees, I would take them in three units of three. We will never win any deployment wars so might as well make the most of it. Three targets means they have to allocate more magic/shooting/charges to more threats which means your big stuff is going in unharassed. And if they ignore them, you can easily use their pile in abilities to move/run/retreat/pilein all over the board and get to the juicy targets that they are built to kill. When I finally get some days off to make a vid, I'll make to talk about it!

As for multiple Butchers, I completely agree. They are a staple of our army and bring the only +1 to hit for us. I used to take three but have pulled back to two. Won't go any less than that. Hope when we get a new release they will give our wizards a way to increase casting. It's much needed.

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Can totally see a rationale for 2 butchers, just meant that three (in the first list) to support an army with 400pts of bonegrinder was probably overkill! And dropping one would give you options.

Thoroughly get the shiny new toy role, am now completely on board ?

interesting question about the yhetees; the bonegrinder is faster (relatively uninjured at least), and has a higher save - although I would generally expect the yhetees to be a bit more durable, especially with the -1 to hit. Blow for blow, 9 yhetees should outdamage the bonegrinder, but for early board control he looks to rival even Torrbad yhetees.

Anyway, be interesting to know how the big fella got on!

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It good that they repack them to 6 ogor so it matches their min unit size instead of 4

I wonder if their a reason they separated the Gnoblars into another unit though

edit: also judging by the NZ listing, the price actually stay the same to 40 dollar which is awesome if correct. also for some reason Ungor raiders are now part of the Gutbuster store page which is probably an error

Edited by novakai
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7 hours ago, novakai said:

It good that they repack them to 6 ogor so it matches their min unit size instead of 4

I wonder if their a reason they separated the Gnoblars into another unit though

edit: also judging by the NZ listing, the price actually stay the same to 40 dollar which is awesome if correct. also for some reason Ungor raiders are now part of the Gutbuster store page which is probably an error

The ogors always came 6 models to a box, only ironguts and belchers were 4. :)

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11 hours ago, Ramda said:

hey guys 

Ogor repacking pre-order started

I hope my gutbusters gets the battletome soon.

 

While cool, reminder that Dispossessed and Wanderers have gotten repacks months ago.

Maybe its an efficiency thing? They repacked several BoC stuff so they mind as well repacked a few other things. Though I suppose it is interesting that Gutbusters have NO GHB allegiance while other armies with GHB still have yet to get proper repacks like Darklings or Free People (except for the firestorm big boxes).

 

Than again Start Collecting Greenskins is still a thing for some reason....?

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1 hour ago, Pitloze said:

Something is wrong with the new Ogors box. It says it comes with 40mm bases. But they should come on 50mm. Misprint maybe?

No, they should be on 40s, they changed it. (Thank goodness, as many of us had already rebased to 40mm rounds!)

maneaters and tyrants are officially on 50mm, ogors, Ironguts, and leadbelchers on 40mm

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