AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion

[amysrevenge]

Played another game on the weekend accidentally (I was planning to bring a different army but it was raining really hard and my Ogors were already packed in a closed Battlefoam bag so they won out by default lol).

2v2 game, 1000 points.  My 'Guts and new Nighthaunt vs. Sylvaneth and Fyreslayers..  We played the new Relocation Orb scenario, which is great fun.

We ended up winning, but just barely and it was tied after 4 rounds.

In general, I bogged down the middle and my more mobile Nighthaunt ally chased the objective.  For the second Sylvaneth matchup in a row, my Leadbelchers ended up taking down the Treelord in close combat (their -1 Rend in close combat sneaks up on me every time).  I got a Butcher +1 to hit buff and Rampaging Destroyer move on my small unit of Ironguts and they ended up removing 16/30 Berserkers after their "reroll forever" saves on T1, and then Battleshock took them down to 1 man standing.    Also took out 9/10 of the shooty guys with Great Maw, that was a treat.

[James S]

Well, tournament pack is out for Wargames Con and no Realm artifacts will be allowed. So I pose the question, stick with the Rock Eye or use the 5+ mortal wound save on my Tyrant General?

[heywoah_twitch]

As sad as it makes me to not do the big combo, keeping tyrant alive for battleshock immunity takes precedence I think.

[James S]

6 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

As sad as it makes me to not do the big combo, keeping tyrant alive for battleshock immunity takes precedence I think.

Yea, running the amulet today. Downside is the Tyrant is my only can opener so 3s/3s makes him less predictable. Playing Temple Nest DoK in a couple hours. Will post with results this evening.

[AmonRa]

How are players finding Ogors versus the new nighthaunt stuff?

[James S]

Have yet to get a game against it. Pretty sure all their bravery debuffing will be brutal.

Hopefully can get a game in soon!

5 hours ago, AmonRa said:

How are players finding Ogors versus the new nighthaunt stuff?

 

[amysrevenge]

6 hours ago, AmonRa said:

How are players finding Ogors versus the new nighthaunt stuff?

Only had the one game as an ally.

First thought is that we don't lean really heavily on high rend (or can easily be built to not rely on high rend), so that ethereal armour save isn't maybe as big of a drag.

[James S]

Had my battle against Temple Nest DoK. Played the Shifting Objectives mission.

His list was Medusa on Cauldron, Medusa on foot, Hag on Cauldron? The one with the +1 save shield, 3 units of 10 melee snakes, 2 units of 5 shooty snakes, gemenids, everything -1 to hit in shooting. 

My big name for the battle was 2" to movement. And since the tournament I'm prepping for isn't allowing realm artifacts, took the 5+ mortal wound ignore artifact from Destruction.

Lost on turn 4 when my Tyrant got destroyed by Medusa on Cauldron on the charge on my 3 point objective. Failed every roll I made to save.

Turn 1 my Grot wall disappeared. The Medusa used their ability to just decimate my horde. It was pretty bad. The snakes came in and cleaned up. His army chewed through 60 wounds like nothing. 

Got the turn priority turn two, he moved the gemenids and back over my Leadbelchers. They were debuffed the entire game pretty much. Had to make a double charge. Got both big units in. Unit I started with deleted his first 10 melee snake unit. His other unit on activating, killed 6 Ogors. That was tough to swallow. I only killed half his unit in return. This would grind out and I would lose them as the Medusa got into combat.

Bottom two, he gets Mindrazor off and I fail to dispel. Next unit of melee snakes charges into my 12 strong unit. Deleted them. Butcher behind them just hanging out.

I win turn three 3. Cast Shackles between mid objective and far objective he controls. Make a nice wall of movement debuff. Butcher left to die. Big mess in the middle objective. He steals far objective with shooty snakes in bottom of turn. Sends the 10 melee snakes to kill my Butcher.

Turn 4, he wins and has to give me the turn or else I use his endless spell to dump on his units. My Tyrant gets in and kills the shooty snakes and recaps. His unit of melee snakes fails long charge into mid unit. All I have left on mid is 4 Beltchers and 1 Butcher. Bottom of 4, he sends Medusa into my Tyrant. Kills him and takes the objective sealing the game. 

Well I gave it my best shot. Was up 15-14 at the end of 3 turns. Just fell apart after. My Tyrant was lousy. Or more like my save rolling for him. Didn't know about that Medusa ability that eats hordes. So now I know. Also, I have no answer to kill that Hag on Cauldron when it is tucked nicely behind his melee units just giving out armor and battleshock buffs.

Another game where I felt like I screwed up deployment. Opponent told me I should have refused flank one side and made him come to me. Just can't see it if I can't hold atleast two objectives.

Always up for thoughts and opinions. I did feel like I was in the game until my Tyrant died. So I guess that's worth something.

[James S]

Got another game in today. Played against Maggotkin. His list was Archaon, Glottkin, GUO w/ bell, harbinger, two units of 5 Blightkings, 1 unit of chaos warriors. GUO had stave, Glottkin had Blades. He was 7 drops to my 8. We played the Total Commitment battleplan. My list is the same, except I'm trying out the Quicksilver Swords.

For the most part I deployed well, except I had my Leadbelchers just a smidge to close to my Grot wall. They got pulled into combat turn 1.

Opponent placed 1 unit of Blight Kings on one objective and a unit of Kings and warriors on another. He filled the middle with his monster mash. I deployed one unit of Ogors far left with a Butcher and the other Ogor unit close to right middle. Tyrant and two Butchers were with this unit. Leadbelchers directly mid behind Grots.

He rolls the wheel and gets movement buff. Takes first turn, does all the hero buffing, and rockets Archaon into my line. Fortunately the Glottkin fails his charge so him and the GUO are stuck in mid table, left side Kings move up and are next to Glottkin. Archaon is now alone in my Grot wall. He proceeds to eat 30 of them. I remove all from the left and middle opening up my Ogors to double charge. He also kills 3 Leadbelchers during that combat. My right side is now defended by the rest of the Grot wall. This would become a no issue as he didn't get into them with his Kings until bottom of two and couldn't chew through them fast enough. Also had my Tyrant in front of the objective just incase.

So my turn sees me cast Swords and peel 4 mortals off Archaon. I dump everything into him. Arcane blast him for 1 mortal, and shoot him doing 1 damage. Note: I placed the Swords in front of Glottkin which stuffed the lane he was going through. Get two hit bonuses on one unit of Ogors. Double charge in. First unit with the buffs leaves Archaon on 1 wound. He hits the other Ogor unit and kills six. I attack with the Leadbelchers and get the wound off. Archaon gone. I use my pile in to move up the board with the 1/2 strengths Ogor unit.

He wins turn two, decides to go second. Moves the Swords out of the way and attacks my full strength Ogor unit. Does 1 wound. One cauldron does nothings, 1 heals, one gives hit buff to full strength unit. My far left side Butcher starts hauling ass up the table. My Six Ogors move to set up a charge that will tie up his Kings so the Butcher can continue. Grots move over more to reinforce the right side. Do some shooting, get maybe a wound on the Kings across from them. Charge the unit of 12 into Glottkin. Charge the 6 into the Kings to hold them. During movement I put my mid Butcher a little off the side but up enough to try and stop the GUO from any advancement.

In combat I get 18 attacks through on Glottkin. He fails 4. Brutal. After the 5+ from the Harbinger, who is staying behind him a little bit, I only get 4 damage through. He only kills a couple Ogors in return. My unit of 6 and the Kings just punch each other a little. His turn saw him charge into my Grots and my Butcher with his GUO. Butcher takes some damage, Grots take some also. My Ogors lose a couple more to Glottkin, I do a couple damage in return. Somewhere in that turn he healed up everything with the straight line Spell. It was rough.

He wins turn 3, decides to go. I use the Swords and do a few more mortals on Glottkin. He attacks. Kills some Grots, still hung up with them. Have less than 10 but they are holding. Moves his Harbinger back to his right objective. That way he can contest my Butcher. I kill two of his Kings in combat with my half strength Ogors. This opens a hole for me to retreat in my turn on his objective. Still stuck in with Glottkin. Kills another couple Ogors. Butcher survives fight with GUO. Had two wounds left. 

We get to bottom of 3, and my opponent conceded. He had no way to killing my stuff fast enough before I got on his objective to get the points.

Great game. I was so overwhelmed at first and the Grots did what they do best and kept my army alive. I played the objectives best I could and used everything I had to slow his army down. I'm torn between the Swords and the Shackles. Both are so good for me. Shackles for board control and the Swords for actually touching heros in the back line. Thoughts?

Hope these aren't too long and boring. If they are, let me know. I'll try to figure something else out.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

On 7/11/2018 at 12:56 AM, James S said:

Had my battle against Temple Nest DoK. Played the Shifting Objectives mission.

His list was Medusa on Cauldron, Medusa on foot, Hag on Cauldron? The one with the +1 save shield, 3 units of 10 melee snakes, 2 units of 5 shooty snakes, gemenids, everything -1 to hit in shooting. 

My big name for the battle was 2" to movement. And since the tournament I'm prepping for isn't allowing realm artifacts, took the 5+ mortal wound ignore artifact from Destruction.

Lost on turn 4 when my Tyrant got destroyed by Medusa on Cauldron on the charge on my 3 point objective. Failed every roll I made to save.

Turn 1 my Grot wall disappeared. The Medusa used their ability to just decimate my horde. It was pretty bad. The snakes came in and cleaned up. His army chewed through 60 wounds like nothing. 

Got the turn priority turn two, he moved the gemenids and back over my Leadbelchers. They were debuffed the entire game pretty much. Had to make a double charge. Got both big units in. Unit I started with deleted his first 10 melee snake unit. His other unit on activating, killed 6 Ogors. That was tough to swallow. I only killed half his unit in return. This would grind out and I would lose them as the Medusa got into combat.

Bottom two, he gets Mindrazor off and I fail to dispel. Next unit of melee snakes charges into my 12 strong unit. Deleted them. Butcher behind them just hanging out.

I win turn three 3. Cast Shackles between mid objective and far objective he controls. Make a nice wall of movement debuff. Butcher left to die. Big mess in the middle objective. He steals far objective with shooty snakes in bottom of turn. Sends the 10 melee snakes to kill my Butcher.

Turn 4, he wins and has to give me the turn or else I use his endless spell to dump on his units. My Tyrant gets in and kills the shooty snakes and recaps. His unit of melee snakes fails long charge into mid unit. All I have left on mid is 4 Beltchers and 1 Butcher. Bottom of 4, he sends Medusa into my Tyrant. Kills him and takes the objective sealing the game. 

Well I gave it my best shot. Was up 15-14 at the end of 3 turns. Just fell apart after. My Tyrant was lousy. Or more like my save rolling for him. Didn't know about that Medusa ability that eats hordes. So now I know. Also, I have no answer to kill that Hag on Cauldron when it is tucked nicely behind his melee units just giving out armor and battleshock buffs.

Another game where I felt like I screwed up deployment. Opponent told me I should have refused flank one side and made him come to me. Just can't see it if I can't hold atleast two objectives.

Always up for thoughts and opinions. I did feel like I was in the game until my Tyrant died. So I guess that's worth something.

Yeah I feel ya,

mind razer is definitely a very strong spell, especially against army’s, which don’t even own their own lore or battletome 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Boss Salvage]

Enjoy the write ups, keep 'em coming ?

Edited July 13, 2018 by Boss Salvage

[PensivePanther]

Hey all, I got three quick ogor questions. 

First question: How do you guys typically equip your ogors? Extra clubs or ironfists? I have traditionally always used ironfists, but I recently realized that rend modifies my save roll, not my save characteristic itself. That means any amount of rend makes the ironfists special rule null if I'm understanding correctly. 

Second question: Do Bellowers from different units stack? Do Bellowers from different warscrolls stack? If I have two units of ogors and one unit of ironguts, each with their own bellower, in range of an enemy what penalty to bravery does the enemy have?

Third question: There's nothing stopping me from having as many bannermen or bellowers in a unit as I want correct?

~Cheers!

[Davros]

12 minutes ago, PensivePanther said:

Hey all, I got three quick ogor questions. 

First question: How do you guys typically equip your ogors? Extra clubs or ironfists? I have traditionally always used ironfists, but I recently realized that rend modifies my save roll, not my save characteristic itself. That means any amount of rend makes the ironfists special rule null if I'm understanding correctly. 

Second question: Do Bellowers from different units stack? Do Bellowers from different warscrolls stack? If I have two units of ogors and one unit of ironguts, each with their own bellower, in range of an enemy what penalty to bravery does the enemy have?

Third question: There's nothing stopping me from having as many bannermen or bellowers in a unit as I want correct?

~Cheers!

To answer your questions;

1: I run Ironfists, but you are correct any amount of rend ignores their effect. The reason why i loved ironfists was the old mystic sheild ment the ability went off on a 5+.

You are better off building dual weopons, even before mystic sheild nerd the extra dmg from the re-rolls was better.

2: bellowers don't stack. Reason is because rule states units with-in range of "any" bellowers. Any means 1+.

3: true you can have multiple banners and bellowers in a unit as you like rules as writte . But some tournaments and events will limit you to 1 per squad or 1 per x guys. 

People will object to a squad where everyone is a bellower or Bannerman, but in a squad of 9-12 having doubles is not frowned apon in my experiance. I run both banners in my squads of 6+ and people are fine with it.

[PlasticCraic]

Hi Panther,

1) Ironfists took a knock with 2.0, no doubt.  You used to be able to stack positive modifiers (cover save and Mystic Shield) to more than offset most rend.  Now Mystic Shield doesn't carry the same benefit it is much less viable.  It might be worth considering on blocks of 3 which are much easier to get into cover.  And remember that the Burning Skull (Endless Spell) can replicate the effects of the dual wielding if you like living (slightly) dangerously!  But generally yes I think you will see a shift towards Dual Wielding, especially on big blocks.

2) Unfortunately not, because it is "any Bellowers".  So no stacking, which is annoying when it comes to Mind Razor for example.

3) RAW you could absolutely fill out your unit with them.  However in friendly games, most people would see that as a bit gamey.  And in most tournament packs it will be banned.  So you tend to find that in practice it has no place in the game, whatever kind of game you are playing.

Welcome to the Tribe!

[PlasticCraic]

Got a 1000 point game tonight (Triumph and Treachery), what are people's 1000 point lists?

[PlasticCraic]

The main stipulation is that I want at least 1 Endless Spell in there, because I'm really enjoying using them at the moment!

This was my first draft, it is wide open to suggestions though:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gutbusters

Leaders
Tyrant (160)
- Massive Ogor Club
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)

Battleline
3 x Ogors (120)
- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
3 x Leadbelchers (140)

Units
20 x Grots (100)

Behemoths
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)
- Allies

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 160 / 200
Wounds: 78

 

[PlasticCraic]

Doom and Darkness just recorded a Gutbusters video that some people might be interested in, and I was a guest on the show - we did try to cover all aspects of the faction (keeping it newcomer-friendly), so some of it might be quite basic for members of this forum, but if you are like me you will always be glad to see the Fat Lads getting some coverage!

We wrapped up with a couple of lists and here is the link to the lists in full:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H45ugncWxPEOjya7GXB6eVN_5-JQxbZvRj4AtCn1Hrk/edit

 

 

[PensivePanther]

9 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

The main stipulation is that I want at least 1 Endless Spell in there, because I'm really enjoying using them at the moment!

This was my first draft, it is wide open to suggestions though:

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Gutbusters

Leaders
Tyrant (160)
- Massive Ogor Club
Butcher (140)
Butcher (140)

Battleline
3 x Ogors (120)
- Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
3 x Leadbelchers (140)

Units
20 x Grots (100)

Behemoths
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)
- Allies

Endless Spells
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 160 / 200
Wounds: 78

 

Morning PlasticCraic! 

My gut instinct (no pun intended) is to drop one of those leaders in favor of more ogors. I prefer a little more staying power in my lists. But honestly, other than that your list is pretty similar to the 1000pt lists I've been running.

Most of my lists start off with a base of a Tyrant, 6 Ogors, and a spellcaster. Then I branch out from there based on my mood. I've had some pretty good success with the gnoblars. I'd also not discredit a good old firebelly. My firebelly performed fantastically in his debut game of AoS 2 (Cascading Firecloak at the right time can lasts for several rounds). Lastly, I've been slapping an endless spell in all my lists to try them out. Of my three games of AoS 2, I've only managed to get a single endless spell off. 

Please let us know how the giant performs. I have lovingly painted gargant myself that I plan to test out in my next game.

Cheers!

Edited July 17, 2018 by PensivePanther

[PlasticCraic]

Hi @PensivePanther, thanks for the comments!  We did play last night and it was great fun.  It was 3-way Triumph and Treachery, up against Stormcast and Khorne.  Nobody took any Batallions (hard to fit into 1000 points these days) and the Stormcast player took the chamber that gives Hero Phase activations for a CP.  Khorne was a Daemons list with a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster and a block of 30 Bloodletters.

I had a couple of very enjoyable moments in the game.  First up was when my Tyrant (Great Gutgouger, Ghyrstrike) took down the Bloodthirster in a single swing.

The Stormcast player was checking what the Thirster would look like on his damage profiles as the Khorne player lifted him off the table…

“I wasn’t expecting that to happen!”

I was ?

The other cool one was the Pendulum, quite late in the game I sent it slashing through the Stormcast ranks and through 6 different units.  19 Mortal Wounds the first time I ever cast it!  FWIW it won me the game too, although it was only a casual game.

I think you are right about not enough Ogors on the table.  The Gargant could probably drop out of the list for 1000 points I think, which frees up a few points.  In T&T specifically the Grots aren’t great (feeds your enemies too many kill points) but I do like hitting over the top of them in normal games.

Glad to hear you are loving the Firebelly!  He doesn’t see a lot of table time generally, so I’m glad he’s working for you.

[James S]

@PlasticCraic, looks like a great game! Gyrestrike is too good for our Tyrant. I wish they would get rid of the randomness of the Big Name and we could fit them out properly.

Glad to see the Endless Spell doing work. I'm still working on that heavy ES list and will be taking it to two small tournaments this weekend to see how it goes. Then back to the wall of bodies grind. Lol.

[Killyox]

Trying a testgame this evening for an upcoming campaign we are starting.

Will be 1000p, primarely choose my list for some funnyness and good looks on the field :)

Tyrant, great gutgouger, might is right, ghyrstrike
Butcher: cauldron
Fungoid cave shaman
3 ogors
3ogors
3ironguts
Aleguzler gargant
Ravenaks gnashing jaws

 

Will be facing idoneth with 30thralls total and wizard with -1 to hit and some more stuff.
So will be hard but i will report how it went down.

 

[Kramer]

7 minutes ago, Killyox said:

Trying a testgame this evening for an upcoming campaign we are starting.

Will be 1000p, primarely choose my list for some funnyness and good looks on the field

Tyrant, great gutgouger, might is right, ghyrstrike
Butcher: cauldron
Fungoid cave shaman
 3 ogors
3ogors
3ironguts
Aleguzler gargant
Ravenaks gnashing jaws

  

Will be facing idoneth with 30thralls total and wizard with -1 to hit and some more stuff.
So will be hard but i will report how it went down.

 

Let us know, because that sounds like a though match up. 

[Killyox]

It was a hard matchup.

 

He had akelian king, 3 eels (dmg ones), 20 thralls, 10 thralls, tidecaster, branchwych

No idea what the battleplan was, but it was 3 objectives diagonal across the board, normal units deploy 9inch away from middle, monsters 24inch so aleguzler was starting in the corner almost.

We rolled for realm and i got to choose beast realm for my ravenaks jaws.

He deployed first and gave me first turn.

1st turn had me shuffling slightly up, and running giant forwards. 2 units of ogors made a wall with my heroes and ironguts behind. wanted to stay out of range for turn one charges, fungoid shaman ate his schroom and cast ravenaks jaws, succeeding and it went into his unit of 20 thralls and did 3 mortals. Butcher buffed ironguts with +1 to hit. other casts where out of range.

His turn one. dispelled his cast, he ran everything forward onto objectives.

turn 2, i got the roll of due to a tie.
After much thinking opted to go second so i could move the ravenaks jaws true his army to force him to change tactics.
Jaws did 2 dmg to thralls, 1 to tidecaster and 2 to akhelian king.

His casting failed again, but he then set up to charge with all his army. eels and king into my giant, 20 thralls into ogor lines and tyrant/ironguts. and other 10 thralls into ogors/butcher/shaman.

He opted to go first with his big unit of thralls wich killed 3 ogors, 1 irongut and put some wounds on tyrant (dmg 2 and -1 rend hurts).
I elected my giant wich trew his club into eels and everything els in king. clubs did 3 dmg to eel, headbutt and kick wiffed against the king.

After he was destroyed by the king witch already did 3 mortals by charging. we roll of, i lose and he timbers on my tyrant and thralls, 3 wounds on tyrant and 3 dead thralls. Ouch
I wiffed my attacks with my tyrant and ironguts  on the thralls wich had the big blob remaining like 6 models.

His other unit of 10 thralls murdered my other 3 man ogor unit. fungoid made all his saves against 4 wounds!
Butcher killed some thralls.

This was the end of the combat phase, but because it was realm of beasts, my friend told me on a roll of 6 combat phase will happen again?
We let the outstander roll and he rolled a six……

Letting the 6 remaining thralls hit first again against my tyrant killing him.  Butcher wiffed against other remaining thralls and he got then shopped up by them.

After the entire phase i had 2 ironguts, 1 fungoid and my ravenak spell left on the field.

Turn 3 i did kill his tidecaster with the ironguts but i was then wiped because it was turn 3 and he had the high tide thingy.

All in all was fun, could have been alot different if i didnt wiff some crucial combats and the 2 times combat phase didnt go off.

Hope this report is abit clear, didnt take any photos

 

Kind regards

Sam
 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Killyox

[Kramer]

14 hours ago, Killyox said:

Hope this report is abit clear, didnt take any photos

Very much so. Except for rolling better (and don't we all want that ?) would you do somethings different?

Personally I'm still doubting the Giant. I have a lovely old albion metal giant which I bring in nearly every game but... I rarely feel he pulls his weight. Especially in 1000pts games.  

[Davros]

I feel in 1000 point games the giant is just too swingy. He either does heaps or nothing which in 1000 points is not what your looking for.

But then in 2000 points running 2 i believe is worth it.

 

Actually i would run 2 giants in 1000 points over 1 giant. 2 giants and 6 ogors is 560 points don't bother with a tyrant or ironguts, i would probs just grab 40 grots another 3 ogors and a firebelly to round out the list. Actually sounds like fun must try it.