AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion

[Danny76]

Certainly at first only 1000 points or so. 

My friend has renewed interest in Beasts of Chaos and is thinking of trying AoS now because of it. 

So we may look at 1500/2000 eventually I suppose. 

But that’s where I think I may start lacking/falling behind..

[Baron Wastelands]

1 hour ago, Danny76 said:

Certainly at first only 1000 points or so. 

My friend has renewed interest in Beasts of Chaos and is thinking of trying AoS now because of it. 

So we may look at 1500/2000 eventually I suppose. 

But that’s where I think I may start lacking/falling behind..

I think you would be fine; at present, until we get an update, you have all the bones anyway. The key winners at the moment are big blocks of 12 ogors (think bulls, with a discount for taking 12), tyrants (can dish out serious damage when geared properly, multiple tyrants is a thing), and then either ironguts or allied maneaters as your (smaller - I run in 6s, some run in 3s) hammer units. Butchers are good, better with a cauldron (think skragg). Leadbelchers offer a bit more flexibility, bit of ranged and a bit of melee, but don’t excel at either. Big units of gnoblars (40/60) can make a good tarpit, especially since a tyrant can make them immune to battle shock (running away). The ironblaster is a bit weak at present, and the scraplauncher is not much better, but every iteration has its ups and downs I guess  Gorgers ... are still models that don’t fit with the range. Some things don’t change.

At 1k, take a tyrant and then a block of 12 ogors. After that, either a butcher + 3 ironguts + 3 ogors, or maybe try a second tyrant and 6 leadbelchers and see how you get on  

[SolarBur]

Hi all

I have a bit of an odd question for you with the Gutbusters. 

I'm slowly getting out of the  hobby now (well over a decade and never really finishing up a project ^^;;), but i've decided to pick up a small lot of Gutbusters to just build and kitbash up. I went to my local GW over the weekend, and they told me they were doing a little build and paint campaign, and what you needed to start was a start collecting set, or the equivalent of one. 

So my question is. Lets just say for arguments sake that the Tyrant and Butcher models were plastic. What would be a good start collecting set for them ? In my head i've got a Tyrant, 6 Ogors, 3 Ironguts, and an Aleguzzlar. But i'm thinking that might be a bit too much for a start collecting set. Any ideas ? 

[novakai]

13 minutes ago, SolarBur said:

Hi all

I have a bit of an odd question for you with the Gutbusters. 

I'm slowly getting out of the  hobby now (well over a decade and never really finishing up a project ^^;;), but i've decided to pick up a small lot of Gutbusters to just build and kitbash up. I went to my local GW over the weekend, and they told me they were doing a little build and paint campaign, and what you needed to start was a start collecting set, or the equivalent of one. 

So my question is. Lets just say for arguments sake that the Tyrant and Butcher models were plastic. What would be a good start collecting set for them ? In my head i've got a Tyrant, 6 Ogors, 3 Ironguts, and an Aleguzzlar. But i'm thinking that might be a bit too much for a start collecting set. Any ideas ? 

I bet they would throw in the Ironblaster/Scraplancher in the box instead of a giant.

it probably be 6 Ogors, 3 Leadbelcher or Irongut, Ironblaster, and a hero

[Baron Wastelands]

4 hours ago, SolarBur said:

Hi all

I have a bit of an odd question for you with the Gutbusters. 

I'm slowly getting out of the  hobby now (well over a decade and never really finishing up a project ^^;;), but i've decided to pick up a small lot of Gutbusters to just build and kitbash up. I went to my local GW over the weekend, and they told me they were doing a little build and paint campaign, and what you needed to start was a start collecting set, or the equivalent of one. 

So my question is. Lets just say for arguments sake that the Tyrant and Butcher models were plastic. What would be a good start collecting set for them ? In my head i've got a Tyrant, 6 Ogors, 3 Ironguts, and an Aleguzzlar. But i'm thinking that might be a bit too much for a start collecting set. Any ideas ? 

It used to be 6 ogors, 4 ironguts, 4 leadbelchers. But by modern standards of start collecting boxes, that’s too much, especially if you add in a character. I think an equivalent to other start collecting armies out there would be: 6 ogors, a butcher, and then either an ironblaster or 3 leadbelchers. 

[ryanguy88]

15 hours ago, SolarBur said:

Hi all

I have a bit of an odd question for you with the Gutbusters. 

I'm slowly getting out of the  hobby now (well over a decade and never really finishing up a project ^^;;), but i've decided to pick up a small lot of Gutbusters to just build and kitbash up. I went to my local GW over the weekend, and they told me they were doing a little build and paint campaign, and what you needed to start was a start collecting set, or the equivalent of one. 

So my question is. Lets just say for arguments sake that the Tyrant and Butcher models were plastic. What would be a good start collecting set for them ? In my head i've got a Tyrant, 6 Ogors, 3 Ironguts, and an Aleguzzlar. But i'm thinking that might be a bit too much for a start collecting set. Any ideas ? 

I'd say that, since most seem to aim to be around the 500 point baseline, 500 points with diversity is what you'd look for.

1 Tyrant,  3 Ogors, 20 Grots, and 1 Ironblaster    would be pretty decent, but I'm not sure that I feel good about the Ironblaster.  In total, it seems to give what GW tries for:   ~500 points (this list is currently 500 ),  1 larger centerpeice model to build and paint (Tyrant),  Core units to demonstrate the feel of the army (ogors+grots), and a little side flavor  (Ironblaster).

[SolarBur]

23 hours ago, novakai said:

I bet they would throw in the Ironblaster/Scraplancher in the box instead of a giant.

it probably be 6 Ogors, 3 Leadbelcher or Irongut, Ironblaster, and a hero

 

18 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

It used to be 6 ogors, 4 ironguts, 4 leadbelchers. But by modern standards of start collecting boxes, that’s too much, especially if you add in a character. I think an equivalent to other start collecting armies out there would be: 6 ogors, a butcher, and then either an ironblaster or 3 leadbelchers. 

 

7 hours ago, ryanguy88 said:

I'd say that, since most seem to aim to be around the 500 point baseline, 500 points with diversity is what you'd look for.

1 Tyrant,  3 Ogors, 20 Grots, and 1 Ironblaster    would be pretty decent, but I'm not sure that I feel good about the Ironblaster.  In total, it seems to give what GW tries for:   ~500 points (this list is currently 500 ),  1 larger centerpeice model to build and paint (Tyrant),  Core units to demonstrate the feel of the army (ogors+grots), and a little side flavor  (Ironblaster).

Thanks for the suggestions all. 

I've decided to go with a Butcher, 6 Ogors, and 3 Ironguts. Its not exactly a meaty force, but i think its a good little starter. 

I had considered the ironblaster/scraplaucher, giants, and grots. I first decided which character i wanted (i was building the butcher up so that was an easy one), and went for the butcher. Then wanted a battleline, and since Ogors came in boxes of 6, that was sorted nicely. Though i juggled around the idea of what would be the last unit to go in. I figured an elite... well elite as you can get for an Ogor, and went for a minimum unit of Ironguts. Even though they come in boxes of 4 i thought that 3 would be fine. I'm lacking a big thing to stick in the army like a chunk of starter sets have, but considering this force is pushing 43 wounds for just 10 guys, i figured that might be overkill ^^;; 

 

[Walrustaco]

Anyone else feel like our best chance to get updated rules is to be included in the inevitable Beastclaw Raiders Battletome update? 

Given that there’s rumours now abound that bonesplitterz might be next up, even before hedonites, they too much like beastclaw and Sylvaneth are among the first AoS 1.0 tomes to have gotten artefacts and allegiances.  GW did it with Skaven and Gloomspite, but we could be up for consolidation with our snowy brethren, especially given that the GW survey had us, bcr and maneaters under one selection. 

[novakai]

26 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

Anyone else feel like our best chance to get updated rules is to be included in the inevitable Beastclaw Raiders Battletome update? 

Given that there’s rumours now abound that bonesplitterz might be next up, even before hedonites, they too much like beastclaw and Sylvaneth are among the first AoS 1.0 tomes to have gotten artefacts and allegiances.  GW did it with Skaven and Gloomspite, but we could be up for consolidation with our snowy brethren, especially given that the GW survey had us, bcr and maneaters under one selection. 

I not sure about the Bonesplitterz release before Slaanesh though, that seems out of place to say the least and the survey did the same thing in 40K where they consolidated all the Space marine and Chaos legion into one choice, I wouldn't put to much credibility on it.

[Walrustaco]

48 minutes ago, novakai said:

I not sure about the Bonesplitterz release before Slaanesh though, that seems out of place to say the least and the survey did the same thing in 40K where they consolidated all the Space marine and Chaos legion into one choice, I wouldn't put to much credibility on it.

Those marines are pretty samey though. Might as well be full books for Kharadron skyports or Stormhosts, if only for the grace of these chapters having established characters. They all play pretty similarly and can take near identical options.

Armies like ironweld and dispossessed are completely different and ogors and bcr are pretty damn different too. I gotta put stock into something, pretty starved over here lol.

[Ajay29]

Long time BCR player, newly bought into Gutbusters, genuinely looking forward to a soup battletome, bored to tears so starting wishlisting some army traits...

 

“Throwin Yer Weight Around”

Ogor units count their combined wound statistics instead of their model count for the purposes of holding objectives

 

“Big Bullies”

Ogor units get +1 bravery when within 3 inches of an enemy unit that has a smaller base size than it’s own

 

“Feast When You Can”

Keep track of damage caused in combat by every unit. At the end of the combat phase, roll a dice for every wound inflicted by an Ogor model (not mounts) in that phase. For every 6, heal a wound to that Ogor model/unit that caused that wound.

 

Thoughts? Just idle wishlisting, maybe drum up some conversation...

[novakai]

1 hour ago, Walrustaco said:

Those marines are pretty samey though. Might as well be full books for Kharadron skyports or Stormhosts, if only for the grace of these chapters having established characters. They all play pretty similarly and can take near identical options.

Armies like ironweld and dispossessed are completely different and ogors and bcr are pretty damn different too. I gotta put stock into something, pretty starved over here lol.

well they combined all the one with different codex's (space wolfs, Blood angels, and Dark Angels ) and the traitor legions (Death guard and thousand sons) and even Adeptus custodes with sister of silence. I think they didn't want to physically list out every single army for both system

I only give the chance of merge being 50-50 but I regardless I feel like because both Ogor ranges lack true Plastic hero it could be that GW can't release an Ogor release without put substantial work on at least one or two new models especially with state of the Maneater, Firebelly, Tyrant, Butcher, Yehtee, Frost saber, Frostbrow Hunters, and the Gorger. I feel like GW has to put some effort into the release 

[Walrustaco]

19 minutes ago, novakai said:

well they combined all the one with different codex's (space wolfs, Blood angels, and Dark Angels ) and the traitor legions (Death guard and thousand sons) and even Adeptus custodes with sister of silence. I think they didn't want to physically list out every single army for both system

I only give the chance of merge being 50-50 but I regardless I feel like because both Ogor ranges lack true Plastic hero it could be that GW can't release an Ogor release without put substantial work on at least one or two new models especially with state of the Maneater, Firebelly, Tyrant, Butcher, Yehtee, Frost saber, Frostbrow Hunters, and the Gorger. I feel like GW has to put some effort into the release 

They should do a shadespire warband for ogors then. Maybe 3 man warband or something. Even 3 might be a bit much, but one of them could double as a hero model. 

[Shankelton]

Just now, Walrustaco said:

They should do a shadespire warband for ogors then. Maybe 3 man warband or something. Even 3 might be a bit much, but one of them could double as a hero model. 

Could honestly just do one big, fat ogor and have some flavorful grots scuttling around him. Ala the troggoth warband! 

 

[DestructionFranz]

Hello guys, 

Does anyone has a picture of the Tyrant with Great Gutgouger? 

I can't find it on the internet. 

[ryanguy88]

15 minutes ago, DestructionFranz said:

Hello guys, 

Does anyone has a picture of the Tyrant with Great Gutgouger? 

I can't find it on the internet. 

I believe that weapon profile refers to the old model, Bragg the Gutsman  (http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bragg_the_Gutsman)

Could be wrong, but the actual Tyrant model only ships with dual 1-handed weapons and the Massive Ogor Club.

[PlasticCraic]

46 minutes ago, DestructionFranz said:

Hello guys, 

Does anyone has a picture of the Tyrant with Great Gutgouger? 

I can't find it on the internet. 

@ryanguy88 is correct, it's the old Bragg model.

He is tricky to find on the webstore though, being incorrectly listed as a Maneater:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Bragg-the-Gutsman

[rattila]

9 hours ago, Walrustaco said:

They should do a shadespire warband for ogors then. Maybe 3 man warband or something. Even 3 might be a bit much, but one of them could double as a hero model. 

That is a great opportunity to make a new Hunter and cats.

Because the hunter is a leader in BCR, but not a monster in close combat in AoS. I probably would instabuy that

[BalborBullguts]

If we are suggesting ideas for Gutbuster battletome benefits maybe;

• Hungry for glory - Your Ogors are as self-centered as they are ravenous; In a melee they will attempt to butcher and devour the most of their target in hopes of gaining recognition among their tribe! If a unit you charge outnumbers your attackers 2 to 1 in model count gain +1 to all hit rolls made against that target by any melee troops for the rest of the turn

• Ferocious appetite - Select up to 3 ironguts during the hero phase - for every attack made against them until your next hero phase, they make an attack on the nearest enemy within fighting range after the enemy attack has been resolved; Any successful hits inflict 3 mortal wounds [can only be used once per battle] 

 

This could be ridiculously overpowered but I haven't really thought it through - yet I was aiming for a more 'high risk, high reward' sort of buffer that would boost your smaller contingents of ogres and make smaller lists much more viable as you are far more likely to be outnumbered; the Ferocious Appetite rule just sounded to me like the right mix of crazy, fun, and characterizing of the faction

Let me know what you lads (and ladies) think!

[Walrustaco]

41 minutes ago, BalborBullguts said:

If we are suggesting ideas for Gutbuster battletome benefits maybe;

• Hungry for glory - Your Ogors are as self-centered as they are ravenous; In a melee they will attempt to butcher and devour the most of their target in hopes of gaining recognition among their tribe! If a unit you charge outnumbers your attackers 2 to 1 in model count gain +1 to all hit rolls made against that target by any melee troops for the rest of the turn

• Ferocious appetite - Select up to 3 ironguts during the hero phase - for every attack made against them until your next hero phase, they make an attack on the nearest enemy within fighting range after the enemy attack has been resolved; Any successful hits inflict 3 mortal wounds [can only be used once per battle] 

 

This could be ridiculously overpowered but I haven't really thought it through - yet I was aiming for a more 'high risk, high reward' sort of buffer that would boost your smaller contingents of ogres and make smaller lists much more viable as you are far more likely to be outnumbered; the Ferocious Appetite rule just sounded to me like the right mix of crazy, fun, and characterizing of the faction

Let me know what you lads (and ladies) think!

I'd love some sort of alternative (and reliable) source of +1 to hit. 1/3 chance to get for a single unit from a cauldron isn't enough and I just roll ones on that thing all the time anyway. 

I dunno about the Ironguts thing. Seems OP, but man, we need some out of sequence attacking. Hero phase pile-in and attacks or attack twice command abilities would be so great for us. 

I'd personally love for leadbelchers to get buffed. Mine actually do a great job for me, they generally last the whole game because they're ignored for the big 12 block of bulls in combat and the 6 man ironguts. I'd love for their shooting to be changed to damage 2 at least, maybe Dd3. I wish they were longer range too, maybe 16" or something, I'm not expecting their range to be doubled or anything, but they're more like shotguns than cannons right now. I'd also like them to get d6 shots at half range instead of from standing still, because that rule just seems a bit weird to me.

[BalborBullguts]

I agree about the belchers, my first thought was on the guts though as they are just super iconic of the gutbusters marching line!

The big drawback in my opinion is that for the same points cost having a 12 pack of bulls procs way more benefits than four sets of leadbelchers, and their ranged damage is too unreliable for my gut instinct to say "okay, I feel like replacing some bulls with belchers is a safe and allpurpose choice" because let's face it, even if you were filling out a basic infantry line, they can't fire and advance and when they finally do get in close you may as well have picked the bulls right? 

and similarly with the ironguts they just pack so much more punch for their point cost to get a 3 pack of guts over a 3 pack of bulls without taking away from your meatblock of bulls and inhibiting all of those benefits.. not to mention the 'down to the ironguts' and 'bull charge' benefits

 

Perhaps a good filler for this to make them a safer bet would be something like Crushing Bombardment - if any leadbelchers unit targets a unit with more than 8 models then add +2 damage to successful attacks or Cannon Fodder - every time a model is slain from an enemy unit by your leadbelchers in melee combat, roll 1d6 - if you roll a 2 or a 6 restore +1 wound 

 

It would probably cause less anxiety about cost efficiency, especially when (realistically) to compete with a lot of armies you really need some sort of ranged unit so you don't get blown apart so hard that when you finally arrive at the melee portion of the game you haven't spent the first turn or two taking models off the board due to your enemy having run of the mill missile units 

 

These would all be pretty fun to play test anyhow, it's a shame it might be a while before I have anyone I can play against 

[extermina]

16 hours ago, Ajay29 said:

“Throwin Yer Weight Around”

Ogor units count their combined wound statistics instead of their model count for the purposes of holding objectives

 

“Big Bullies”

Ogor units get +1 bravery when within 3 inches of an enemy unit that has a smaller base size than it’s own

I really like these ideas.

I think there are some changes that can be made with just a small update of the existing warscrolls. Let tyrants choose their Great Name (for the cost of them being unique in an army). Let the Butcher cauldron work like a prayer that works on a 2+, roll of 1 inflicts one mortal wound, you can choose the result. Down To The Iron Guts becomes a once per battle ability (I really hate that trigger). These changes alone would make Gutbusters way better.

Edited April 18, 2019 by extermina

[Walrustaco]

33 minutes ago, extermina said:

I really like these ideas.

I think there are some changes that can be made with just a small update of the existing warscrolls. Let tyrants choose their Great Name (for the cost of them being unique in an army). Let the Butcher cauldron work like a prayer that works on a 2+, roll of 1 inflicts one mortal wound, you can choose the result. Down To The Iron Guts becomes a once per battle ability (I really hate that trigger). These changes alone would make Gutbusters way better.

Never triggered DTTIG in my life fml

I too like @Ajay29's ideas. I wonder if a 12 block of bulls counting as 48 models would be too good? Or is that what we deserve? 🤔

I know the BCR guys pretty commonly say they dont want us two to combine again, but I'm all for it, dunno bout you guys. Gloomspite lets you run troggoth or spiderfang lists pretty independently, an Ogors tome could do the same. 

[BalborBullguts]

I like the distinction between infantry and cavalry; I don't have an opinion based on the fluff but it is really cool to have rules internally that allow each faction to be independent of a certain ratio in the formation - i.e. not having to get stacks and stacks of mammoths or whatever because your infantry don't carry enough weight in their merit, and likewise not having to have a big infantry line because your cav and monsters have some rules that support a fully beefed up army of ogre riders

It really supports playing into your style which is cool, and I don't want a merger that makes a lot of infantry having the 'leadbelcher effect' or some of the super elite units becoming super pricey in points for BCR players because all of a sudden they are wayyyy up there in power scale compared to the line infantry

I really suspect that is the way it will happen - No grievance with our mournfang riding cousins though

[DestructionFranz]

14 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

@ryanguy88 is correct, it's the old Bragg model.

He is tricky to find on the webstore though, being incorrectly listed as a Maneater:

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Bragg-the-Gutsman

So, to use the Tyrant with that destructive weapon you need to buy the man-eater?