AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion

[Shankelton]

2 hours ago, Walrustaco said:

Unless they phase out our lovely finecast models (better not gw I'll find you) then the option might remain. 

Absolutely, would be a shame to see those unique sculpts go. Though I wouldn't mind a plastic butcher kit, something versatile with tons of customization options. Maybe even a kit that you can make a tyrant or butcher out of if they really wanted to go crazy. 

 

[Walrustaco]

1 minute ago, Shankelton said:

Absolutely, would be a shame to see those unique sculpts go. Though I wouldn't mind a plastic butcher kit, something versatile with tons of customization options. Maybe even a kit that you can make a tyrant or butcher out of if they really wanted to go crazy. 

 

God, I'd love a plastic Tyrant kit with lots of customisation. I'd buy like... 3.

But yeah, I don't really like any of the resin butchers. I was almost considering using the female ogor maneaters as a butcher. But like a baker instead, cause rolling pin lol

[Shankelton]

2 minutes ago, Walrustaco said:

But yeah, I don't really like any of the resin butchers. I was almost considering using the female ogor maneaters as a butcher. But like a baker instead, cause rolling pin lol

That's the one sculpt i can't see myself ever getting. I love the rolling pin and stuff, its funny, but I just can't imagine it leading my army xD.

Agreed on the butchers. The cauldron model isn't too bad, but the butcher w/o is one of the ugliest models we have (minus Gorger). 

[amysrevenge]

I've been doing quite a few Reaper Bones models as heroes.  They work pretty well.

[Shankelton]

33 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

I've been doing quite a few Reaper Bones models as heroes.  They work pretty well.

Bones has some great sculpts. Have quite a few of their models floating around, but I really only use them for D&D games. Not a huge fan of the material Reaper uses. The tradeoff being that they make great, simple miniatures for D&D haha.

[amysrevenge]

33 minutes ago, Shankelton said:

Bones has some great sculpts. Have quite a few of their models floating around, but I really only use them for D&D games. Not a huge fan of the material Reaper uses. The tradeoff being that they make great, simple miniatures for D&D haha.

For me, the larger the model, the better the material holds up.  Monsters are perfect.  Something like an Ogre/Ogor does pretty well - the PC-scale hero models are where the material really lets you down.

[James S]

Got a couple games in last two days. Rematch against the Nurgle list with its new and improved Skaven warscrolls. Also got a match in against Daughters. Using the same pack for upcoming tournament. Only change in list is back to Shackles instead of Swords.

Both losses. Got stomped by Nurgle in Better Part of Valor. He was into my deployment turn 1 and there was no digging out of it.

Lost to DoK in Focal Points on turn 4 when my army fell apart and he max scored to seal it. Was doing about as good as I could have when it all went down the toilet. Lol.

Anyhow, got a few pics to share and video.

 

[Walrustaco]

I converted some custom Ironguts. My gutbusters have a sort of loose sun/fire theme and I love to take my Firebelly along as often as possible. A few of the are just Mournfang riders on Ogor bodies, but some of them I have them warpfire braziers from the Thanquol kit. 

The Gutlord ended up looking like a badass, so I'm especially happy with him. Let me know what you think.

[GutZilla]

Hey guys, I’ve got a game coming up this weekend. Playing 1500 vs beasts of chaos.

2x bray shaman

1x cygor

1x gorghon 

20x bestigors 

20x ungors

2 units of tzaangor enlighrened 

1 tzaangor shaman 

3x bullgors 

Or something very close to this. It’s going to be much faster than me, with lots of deep strike capabilities. I’ve attached my list, wondering what you guys think? I’m worried I’m not going to be mobile enough, but I don’t have anything fast in my army. We will play an objective based game, so his speed, summoning and deep striking will be hard to deal with. Any general strategies or list comments? I also have more leadbelchers, Grots, and a giant at home I can sub in. 

[Baron Wastelands]

On 2/14/2019 at 6:45 PM, GutZilla said:

Hey guys, I’ve got a game coming up this weekend. Playing 1500 vs beasts of chaos.

2x bray shaman

1x cygor

1x gorghon 

20x bestigors 

20x ungors

2 units of tzaangor enlighrened 

1 tzaangor shaman 

3x bullgors 

Or something very close to this. It’s going to be much faster than me, with lots of deep strike capabilities. I’ve attached my list, wondering what you guys think? I’m worried I’m not going to be mobile enough, but I don’t have anything fast in my army. We will play an objective based game, so his speed, summoning and deep striking will be hard to deal with. Any general strategies or list comments? I also have more leadbelchers, Grots, and a giant at home I can sub in. 

It’s an interesting Beasts list - while he can get to objectives early, he can’t really hold them if you go in with strong numbers. The shaman and the Ungors will be hanging around the herd stone, leaving the only block as 20 bestigors. Buffed ogres can deal with those. You could consider:

Tyrant

Butcher

12 ogors

12 ogors

12 ogors

1500pts.

Alternatively, swap one unit of 12 for 6 leadbelchers and a couple of gorgers, if you want to be able to disrupt quicker.

Of course, if you only have 12 ogors but extra leadbelchers, I’d still consider running a main block of 12 ogors, they’re just really efficient for the points. Maybe in that case run your original list but with all 12 ogors in one unit, and then remove the maneaters and add a second unit of 6 leadbelchers. Belchers are not actually bad in melee, so don’t worry about using them this way, just think of any shots you get in on the way in as a bonus.

Edited February 16, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[GutZilla]

2 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

It’s an interesting Beasts list - while he can get to objectives early, he can’t really hold them if you go in with strong numbers. The shaman and the Ungors will be hanging around the herd stone, leaving the only block as 20 bestigors. Buffed ogres can deal with those. You could consider:

Tyrant

Butcher

12 ogors

12 ogors

12 ogors

1500pts.

Alternatively, swap one unit of 12 for 6 leadbelchers and a couple of gorgers, if you want to be able to disrupt quicker.

Of course, if you only have 12 ogors but extra leadbelchers, I’d still consider running a main block of 12 ogors, they’re just really efficient for the points. Maybe in that case run your original list but with all 12 ogors in one unit, and then remove the maneaters and add a second unit of 6 leadbelchers. Belchers are not actually bad in melee, so don’t worry about using them this way, just think of any shots you get in on the way in as a bonus.

Thanks for the input. He definitely will have the objective advantage, the board control of the BoC army is just insane. Unfortunately I only own 12 ogors, so I figured I should separate them into two groups to try and grab different objectives. Is a unit of 12 not very unwieldly? Never played them that large before. doubling up on the leadbelchers is a possibility though - but I think I may need grots to shield a gun line of that size.

My original thought on the gorger and the maneaters was the added speed could help me keep up with the BoC. But now I think maybe I should just load up on heavy hitters and try and table him. 

[Retro]

Hey guys, has anyone tried running a leadbelcher gunline list?

Do you think it would be decent or just not enough firepower at too short range to go all in?

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Retro said:

Hey guys, has anyone tried running a leadbelcher gunline list?

Do you think it would be decent or just not enough firepower at too short range to go all in?

My leadbelchers just do so little I never wanted to try it (also would mean proxying for me) but I imagine you still won’t do that much with shooting due to short range and no run and shoot. But if you can make it work  

On 2/16/2019 at 4:47 AM, GutZilla said:

Thanks for the input. He definitely will have the objective advantage, the board control of the BoC army is just insane. Unfortunately I only own 12 ogors, so I figured I should separate them into two groups to try and grab different objectives. Is a unit of 12 not very unwieldly? Never played them that large before. doubling up on the leadbelchers is a possibility though - but I think I may need grots to shield a gun line of that size.

My original thought on the gorger and the maneaters was the added speed could help me keep up with the BoC. But now I think maybe I should just load up on heavy hitters and try and table him. 

I think the maneaters are a great linebacker unit. Going where they are needed. I’m getting more and more on board of the ‘big units of Ogors’ hype train. Yes but unweildy but the massive footprint helps as often as it hinders. So I would definitely advice you to give it a go. Hit them with your tyrant turn one send them of with the butcher in the middle on one flank. The tyrant with ironguts (6 would be better though) on the other. Maneaters and leadbelchers in the middle. Gorger should be able to deal with his backfield shaman, or at least threaten it so he needs to respond to it. 

[That Guy]

On 2/12/2019 at 9:18 PM, James S said:

 

Got a couple games in last two days.

 

Rough matches man. It’s so hard to compete with new books. You are putting out the work for us and show how it is to fight the uphill battle. In all regards, playing such elite armies, like gutbusters and beastclaw, means we mostly will fight the up hill battle, even with a new book( a new book will help us bust through though). It’s just with the mass regiments and the force mulitplying that we are in this horde meta right now and it’s hard to push through. I myself have tried, Greenskinz, High Elves against newer books and just shelved them after a while, it just feels so lackluster fighting them, without updated rules for yourself. I also own gutbusters and beastclaw and I suffer from the same as you. It’s hard. 

As for your list, i’m actually going to run it myself soon, against a Daughters list, A Flesh Eater Courts, Skaven, Dispossessed and Ironjawz list. I’ll let you know how it goes. 

Did consider to drop the endless spell at the end and fish for a triumph? Also, unless otherwise stated specifically, you should always be able to retreat in your movement phase, so the charge with destruction and retreat should work.

Little edit here: I also ran my new Gloomspite Gitz against similar list and lost minor or won, so yeah. It truelly is the struggle of getting gw love or not.

Edited February 18, 2019 by That Guy

[That Guy]

Hello fellow Busters,

Got a few questions. The first is: I am planning to do a conversion with my non-cauldron butcher converting his weapons on his arms making them stump weapons and adding a chain with a cauldron. My question to you is, do you know of any good ways to get such a cauldron, be it third party, or even sculpting it. 

My second question is, what do you guys think of the Ironblaster and Scraplauncher in the current horde meta? I know they are still unreliable because of the 1 shot only, but especially with the mass regiments I wonder what your opinions are about these units. 

[Baron Wastelands]

8 hours ago, Retro said:

Hey guys, has anyone tried running a leadbelcher gunline list?

Do you think it would be decent or just not enough firepower at too short range to go all in?

Yes, I’ve been playing around with it on and off, see earlier discussion on this thread. The problem really is that their damage output at range just isn’t great; so you end up getting bogged down in combat anyway. They aren’t bad at that, but ... they’re not the best, and it isn’t gunline really. I’ve had limited success staggering them to take charges with backup in 12” range (this worked amazingly well in one game in particular against khorne) but the damage is a bit swingy and you can’t rely on it. Tyrants don’t know what to do, and butchers ... well, they synergise better in such a list, but not really in terms of boosting shooting, which they desperately need a buff for. Ironblasters just don’t help. So, overall, hmmm. Hoping it becomes more viable if we get a new book 😉

Edited February 18, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[Baron Wastelands]

25 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Hello fellow Busters,

Got a few questions. The first is: I am planning to do a conversion with my non-cauldron butcher converting his weapons on his arms making them stump weapons and adding a chain with a cauldron. My question to you is, do you know of any good ways to get such a cauldron, be it third party, or even sculpting it. 

My second question is, what do you guys think of the Ironblaster and Scraplauncher in the current horde meta? I know they are still unreliable because of the 1 shot only, but especially with the mass regiments I wonder what your opinions are about these units. 

Modelled a cauldron basing it on a paint pot top. Was about the right size. Alternatively try something like a playmobile cauldron as a base. 

Don’t have any scraplaunchers so can’t comment, but you hit the nail on the head with the ironblaster. I love it, and I want it to be good, but 1 shot means it usually ... isn’t.

[James S]

27 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Hello fellow Busters,

Got a few questions. The first is: I am planning to do a conversion with my non-cauldron butcher converting his weapons on his arms making them stump weapons and adding a chain with a cauldron. My question to you is, do you know of any good ways to get such a cauldron, be it third party, or even sculpting it. 

My second question is, what do you guys think of the Ironblaster and Scraplauncher in the current horde meta? I know they are still unreliable because of the 1 shot only, but especially with the mass regiments I wonder what your opinions are about these units. 

Appreciate your feedback bud. We are in a tough spot for sure. All we can do is squeeze out every drop and hope for some luck. 

Easiest cauldrons to make are from the Ironblaster set. I used the scraplauncher bit to make the cauldron. Can also use the little kettle from the Stonehorn.

Both the Ironblaster and Scraplauncher are awful. Think of them as chariots with a random missile weapon that can’t hit a barn door. I wouldn’t add one in a list unless it was 80pts. Lol.

[That Guy]

10 minutes ago, James S said:

Easiest cauldrons to make are from the Ironblaster set. I used the scraplauncher bit to make the cauldron. Can also use the little kettle from the Stonehorn.

I have access to both! I'm going to look into that, thanks man.

14 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Modelled a cauldron basing it on a paint pot top.

Do you have a picture of that? I'm really curious.

[That Guy]

22 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Don’t have any scraplaunchers so can’t comment, but you hit the nail on the head with the ironblaster. I love it, and I want it to be good, but 1 shot means it usually ... isn’t.

 

19 minutes ago, James S said:

Think of them as chariots with a random missile weapon that can’t hit a barn door.

Would be great to have 2 shots on it and perhaps a way to re-roll damage, that would be a quality of life change. It's needed. Perhaps take the re-roll to hit away from the ironblaster and replace it with re-roll damage vs units of 10 or more and also including a second shot. For the Scraplauncher, perhaps just add the 2nd shot. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by That Guy

[Baron Wastelands]

15 minutes ago, That Guy said:

I have access to both! I'm going to look into that, thanks man.

Do you have a picture of that? I'm really curious.

Not good ones, but just to give you the ideae

[That Guy]

23 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Not good ones, but just to give you the idea

Good enough ones. Looks amazing.

[PlasticCraic]

They look good!

Only comment I have is that I would expect the Butcher with Cauldron to be on the 105 x 70mm base?

In the base size guide, they do have different sizes for the Butcher (40mm) and the Butcher with Cauldron (105 x 70mm).

If I was taking the better warscroll I feel like I should take the larger base tax.

[GutZilla]

14 hours ago, Retro said:

Hey guys, has anyone tried running a leadbelcher gunline list?

Do you think it would be decent or just not enough firepower at too short range to go all in?

I actually really like Leadbelchers and try to take at least a 9 man unit in a 2000 point game. They are only 20 points more than regular ogors, but they have a great shooting attack and they have rend in both shooting and combat. The rend is so important, and has really delivered for me as regular ogors without rend can get tarpitted really easily by 4+ save units. The shooting is the icing on the cake, and on occasion can be really devastating. 9 of them eliminated an entire unit of 20 witch elves for me in one go for me once (they didn't move, and got off 34 shots). 

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

If I was taking the better warscroll I feel like I should take the larger base tax.

The codex asta.... *ahem* The base size suggestion, is just a guideline. GW references the actual model being sold butcher as in Skrag the Slaughterer, but absolutely nothing, stops you from taking any base size you want. Just don’t make it too ridiculous, like an ogre on a 25mm, or a goblin on a 120 x 92.

Edited February 19, 2019 by That Guy