AoS 2 - Gutbusters Discussion

[amysrevenge]

Everyone knows that in the shooting phase, the "Hey, Hold This" grots emerge and hold all those clubs, bashers, and slicers.  The tyrant still shoots with his teeth, because of course he does, but at least his hands aren't full.

[Baron Wastelands]

Picture the scene: my bare-knuckle tyrant, accompanied by a grot weighed down by a veritable bundle of clubs, bashers and slicers; the tyrant says (through clenched teeth around a rifle butt) “check me out - I’m re-rolling hits”...

[walheim]

Hey guys! 

Just painted my first 6 ogors!

It's my first time painting tattoos, had a blast doing theese

please give me some feedback, what do you like, what do i improve going forward?

Edit: ogors have mothers too

Edited October 21, 2018 by walheim

[heywoah_twitch]

I saw this thing at Dragonfall Con and felt you needed to become aware of it. Gutbusters of the Rising Sun.

mournfang allies

[Kramer]

14 minutes ago, heywoah_twitch said:

I saw this thing at Dragonfall Con and felt you needed to become aware of it. Gutbusters of the Rising Sun.

mournfang allies

Amazing!!!

[James S]

Hoping to get some games in this weekend. Making a change in my tournament list. Dropping the six Leadbelchers for a unit of Guts and Grots.

Dont feel like my shooty unit is pulling any weight, so gonna try something a little different. This is closer to my old tournament list which used a lot of Gut chaff to hold stuff up. Same idea, just more lunch with two big units of Ogors.

Let me know what y'all think. Very aware I'll lose a unit of Grots turn 1. Ideally that sets up a counter-charge.

[walheim]

2 hours ago, James S said:

Hoping to get some games in this weekend. Making a change in my tournament list. Dropping the six Leadbelchers for a unit of Guts and Grots.

Dont feel like my shooty unit is pulling any weight, so gonna try something a little different. This is closer to my old tournament list which used a lot of Gut chaff to hold stuff up. Same idea, just more lunch with two big units of Ogors.

Let me know what y'all think. Very aware I'll lose a unit of Grots turn 1. Ideally that sets up a counter-charge.

Seems cool! What's the reason for taking the ironguts in blocks of 3 instead of 6 and 3 or 9?

[James S]

4 hours ago, walheim said:

Seems cool! What's the reason for taking the ironguts in blocks of 3 instead of 6 and 3 or 9?

Good question bud. I use the Guts as MSU so I can be in alot of places. They are great for slowing down hordes, chasing heroes, generally just being an ass pain. 12 wounds, 4+ save, a great banner, and the ability to smash anything with a buff or decent roll.

I always try to put them in positions that force my opponent to have to deal with them. If they are close enough, get a charge and position them to receive as few return attacks as possible. You can get one in base contact and keep the other two behind swinging over and minimizing/forcing your opponent to pile in out of position. 

I also love to run a unit up each side of the board to force decisions. If they are dealing with the Gut units they aren't dealing with my Ogor blocks or my heroes. Hopefully that helps explain some of it. More targets = more better for us.

Edited October 24, 2018 by James S

[sorokyl]

Playing my first Gutbusters game this weekend.  2v1  Stormcast and Gutbusters vs ??? (probably sylvaneth).  We have an odd man half the time so we have a good bit of 2v1. Stormcast is going to be almost all shooty so my job is just to hold the line. I was gonna choose a big blob of plaguebearers but I just wanted to play with my new guys. 

Allegiance: Gutbusters - Mortal Realm: Hysh
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Command Trait : Might is Right
- Pair of Clubs, Bashers or Slicers
- Artefact : Blade of Symmetry
Butcher (140)
12 x Ogors (400) -Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
3 x Ogors (120) -Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
3 x Ironguts (180)
TOTAL: 1000/1000

Notes - 
I have read here that 3x Ogors is not ideal, but my grots aren't ready yet. I thought about Firebelly, but this seemed better for my role in this game. 
I choose Ironfists for the unit of 3, my thinking was, I will do 1/4 of the damage as a unit of 12, but I will not take 1/4 the number of attacks against me, so the relative strength goes up? 
My Tyrant has 2 weapons. Maybe I'll get a gutgouger model later (Seems good) but from my calculations this seems the best artifact/trait against saves of 4 or higher. 

Questions: 
Is a gutgouger model worth paying MSRP for? or should I only pick one up if I can find a deal (is it that much better than 1 handed weapons)
Command abilities.  I can see using Tyrant CA on the 12 block if I had something to do with my other command points, but other than using them on runs/charges,  seems I may be better off just saving some for Inspiring presence?   What do you guys usually spend command points on. Is there a destruction hero outside of Gutbusters that has a good command ability for this army? 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by sorokyl

[Baron Wastelands]

4 hours ago, sorokyl said:

Playing my first Gutbusters game this weekend.  2v1  Stormcast and Gutbusters vs ??? (probably sylvaneth).  We have an odd man half the time so we have a good bit of 2v1. Stormcast is going to be almost all shooty so my job is just to hold the line. I was gonna choose a big blob of plaguebearers but I just wanted to play with my new guys. 

Allegiance: Gutbusters - Mortal Realm: Hysh
Tyrant (160)
- General
- Command Trait : Might is Right
- Pair of Clubs, Bashers or Slicers
- Artefact : Blade of Symmetry
Butcher (140)
12 x Ogors (400) -Ogor Clubs or Blades with Iron Fists
3 x Ogors (120) -Pairs of Ogor Clubs or Blades
3 x Ironguts (180)
TOTAL: 1000/1000
 
Notes - 
I have read here that 3x Ogors is not ideal, but my grots aren't ready yet. I thought about Firebelly, but this seemed better for my role in this game. 
I choose Ironfists for the unit of 3, my thinking was, I will do 1/4 of the damage as a unit of 12, but I will not take 1/4 the number of attacks against me, so the relative strength goes up? 
My Tyrant has 2 weapons. Maybe I'll get a gutgouger model later (Seems good) but from my calculations this seems the best artifact/trait against saves of 4 or higher. 

Questions: 
Is a gutgouger model worth paying MSRP for? or should I only pick one up if I can find a deal (is it that much better than 1 handed weapons)
Command abilities.  I can see using Tyrant CA on the 12 block if I had something to do with my other command points, but other than using them on runs/charges,  seems I may be better off just saving some for Inspiring presence?   What do you guys usually spend command points on. Is there a destruction hero outside of Gutbusters that has a good command ability for this army? 

 

There’s a lot of -1 rend out there, so I wouldn’t bother with iron fists. Go with 2 weapons on all your ogors.

3 ogors are ok as a 3rd unit, given the points you have left, and can head to an objective.  20 grots will do less damage (I.e. none) but will take slightly more if CA’d, and can spread out further to screen initially. Alternatively you could take an ironblaster (I’m contractually obliged to say that as chair of the ironblaster appreciation in the face of performance society).

A gutgouger will definitely outperform 2 hand weapons, but I wouldn’t buy a finecast Bragg unless you really like the model. I converted my gutgouger tyrant.

Yup, use the CA on the big block of 12 ogors. He doesn’t have to be your general any more to use it, of course, but I’d make him general to stack trait+artifact on. Otherwise you will usually be able to spend remaining CPs on charges, since it’ll be vital to get your big block where you want it.

[sorokyl]

5 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

 I wouldn’t buy a finecast Bragg unless you really like the model. I converted my gutgouger tyrant.

4

Great idea.   Any suggestions on particular bits?  I do have a lot of stonehorn, mournfang, and bull bits to use, will look into it. 

[Baron Wastelands]

15 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

Great idea.   Any suggestions on particular bits?  I do have a lot of stonehorn, mournfang, and bull bits to use, will look into it. 

Yep, I used the larger of the gargant hackers from the mournfang kit for the actual blade of the polearm.

[PensivePanther]

15 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Yep, I used the larger of the gargant hackers from the mournfang kit for the actual blade of the polearm.

I wanted to chime in to say I did the exact same thing. A gargant hacker and some favorite ogor bits on on ogor body, viola. You got yourself a tyrant!

[walheim]

Do you guys  go deatruction or gutbuster allegience? I whats the pros and cons if theese?

[Luzgurbel]

If?

 

You MUST go GA:D, because Gutbusters don't have their own allegiance.

 

Perhaps they are the biggest faction without own allegiance.

[sorokyl]

3 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

If?

 

You MUST go GA:D, because Gutbusters don't have their own allegiance.

 

Perhaps they are the biggest faction without own allegiance.

No, you can have gutbusters allegiance, and you must to use ironguts and leadbelchers as battleline.  They do not have allegiance abilities, so you can use GA destructions, but there is a difference in allegiance gutbusters and allegiance destruction, concerning allies and battleline requirements

[Baron Wastelands]

7 hours ago, sorokyl said:

No, you can have gutbusters allegiance, and you must to use ironguts and leadbelchers as battleline.  They do not have allegiance abilities, so you can use GA destructions, but there is a difference in allegiance gutbusters and allegiance destruction, concerning allies and battleline requirements

This.

And to answer the original question, I usually go Gutbusters allegiance for the battleline options. If I’m taking any ogors, I only really take them in blocks of 12 at present, so 2 of those at 1k or 3 at 2k is too expensive. I therefore usually take a unit of 6 leadbelchers and/or 6 ironguts (though I know @James S is having some success with units of 3 as well) alongside a block of ogors. The only thing I really ally in (as a gutbuster purist!) is maneaters sometimes.

If you’re going GA: destruction, I guess you can fill your battleline with other options (I.e. not ogors), but that doesn’t feel quite right to me!

[walheim]

30 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

This.

And to answer the original question, I usually go Gutbusters allegiance for the battleline options. If I’m taking any ogors, I only really take them in blocks of 12 at present, so 2 of those at 1k or 3 at 2k is too expensive. I therefore usually take a unit of 6 leadbelchers and/or 6 ironguts (though I know @James S is having some success with units of 3 as well) alongside a block of ogors. The only thing I really ally in (as a gutbuster purist!) is maneaters sometimes.

If you’re going GA: destruction, I guess you can fill your battleline with other options (I.e. not ogors), but that doesn’t feel quite right to me!

THANKYOU, how many 12 blocks of ogors do you go at 2k? I have 1 block for my 1k list right now.

[Luzgurbel]

Well, yes, if you want Ironguts and Leadbelchers as Battleline. But if you go Gutbusters allegiance, you can't have trait or items (beyond the realm you choose, if any). However, if you GA:D, you can, at least, have a trait an more items, at the cost of only playing Ogors as battleline (or, if you need points, take some cheap battleline like Orruks).

 

On the other hand, I admit that having Ironguts as battleline is quite sexy, having a unit of 12 Ogors as wound bag and 2 units of Ironguts as smasha. 

[sorokyl]

4 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

Well, yes, if you want Ironguts and Leadbelchers as Battleline. But if you go Gutbusters allegiance, you can't have trait or items (beyond the realm you choose, if any). However, if you GA:D, you can, at least, have a trait an more items, at the cost of only playing Ogors as battleline (or, if you need points, take some cheap battleline like Orruks) 

2

This is wrong.   General Handbook 2018 Errata states:

Page 62 – Pitched Battle Profile, Introduction
Add the following section: ‘ARMIES WITHOUT ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES If a faction army does not have a set of allegiance abilities, then you can use its Grand Alliance allegiance abilities instead. For example, if you had an Eshin army you could use the Grand Alliance Chaos allegiance abilities, and if you had an Order Draconis army you could use the Grand Alliance Order allegiance abilities. Note that if allegiance abilities exist for a faction army, you must use them.’

"allegiance abilities" includes traits and artifacts, the wording in the Core Book is:

This section describes the allegiance abilities available to a Destruction army, including battle traits for the army, command traits for its general and the artefacts of power available to its heroes.

[Luzgurbel]

That is really cool! Thanks for the clarification.

[James S]

Hey all! Was able to get a game in yesterday against Weirdfist IJ. Definitely felt more comfortable with this list. Here's my battle report and some pics from the game. Enjoy! Advice and critique are always welcome!

 

[Baron Wastelands]

12 hours ago, walheim said:

THANKYOU, how many 12 blocks of ogors do you go at 2k? I have 1 block for my 1k list right now.

Not sure I have an answer for this beyond 1-2, which is maybe not very helpful! Probably more games with one, but then I will either go heavier into leadbelchers or into ironguts (and/or maneaters).  But if it’s a competitive game then I will take 2 blocks, sometimes a large block of gnoblars, though I find them boring to play!

[James S]

Morning all! Been pretty quiet on the Ogor front it seems. Saw a post over on the Gutbuster FB page from a guy making a lot of Leadbelchers for his army. This prompted me to think about how we would go about doing that. I don't much believe in our shooting abilities since we have no way to buff it in any way outside of Damned terrain or the Burning Head Endless Spell. 

But say we wanted to. I got to list building and decided to go all in on the shooting. 60 grots form a wall to protect all the shooting. Haven't kitted out the Tyrant since I'm not sure what his role should be. Maneaters can shoot decently well and are good in combat. Overcosted but good none the less. So here's a list I played with. I also added pics of the averages for the shooting and combat damage of the Leadbelchers. First is with d3 shots using 2 as the average, then their combat, and lastly using d6 shots as they stand still. I chose 21 as it's the median between 18 and 24. I'm not a math whiz. This is all up against a 4+ save.

So let's have a conversation! I go first and say I don't think their 12" range is worth it. 18" if you move.

Edit: Not even sure it's legal. Don't think I can squeeze the second unit of Maneaters with the match play restrictions.

Edited November 5, 2018 by James S

[Baron Wastelands]

5 hours ago, James S said:

Morning all! Been pretty quiet on the Ogor front it seems. Saw a post over on the Gutbuster FB page from a guy making a lot of Leadbelchers for his army. This prompted me to think about how we would go about doing that. I don't much believe in our shooting abilities since we have no way to buff it in any way outside of Damned terrain or the Burning Head Endless Spell. 

But say we wanted to. I got to list building and decided to go all in on the shooting. 60 grots form a wall to protect all the shooting. Haven't kitted out the Tyrant since I'm not sure what his role should be. Maneaters can shoot decently well and are good in combat. Overcosted but good none the less. So here's a list I played with. I also added pics of the averages for the shooting and combat damage of the Leadbelchers. First is with d3 shots using 2 as the average, then their combat, and lastly using d6 shots as they stand still. I chose 21 as it's the median between 18 and 24. I'm not a math whiz. This is all up against a 4+ save.

So let's have a conversation! I go first and say I don't think their 12" range is worth it. 18" if you move.

Edit: Not even sure it's legal. Don't think I can squeeze the second unit of Maneaters with the match play restrictions

 

Ok, sounds good! Have wondered a similar thing, and have taken all battleline leadbelchers sometimes. Firstly, if we really want to maximise shots, I’m going to be quite controversial, and say we don’t need a tyrant (I know!). Cauldron butchers, yes; and I agree with units of 6, though grot walls will crumble quickly, especially without a tyrant. So either we max out on leadbelchers, and let them get into combat too (they’re really not bad, with the rend), supported (and sometimes healed) by butchers just behind the line. If you deploy in two lines, the back leadbelchers would get a chance to shoot d6 as well as the front line shooting d3 in combat.

i also think maneaters are best in 6s, but while they are absolute (glass) cannons in melee, their shooting is a nice extra, not much more, even with crack shots.

so, something like:

2x butcher with cauldron

6x6 leadbelchers

soulsnare shackles

 

This would put out a decent amount of shots, and would take some chewing through, whilst also being a bit handy in combat, and supported by a bit of magic and buffs. But is it too one dimensional to really work?

Unless you think ... could it be time for ... ironblasters?! No, ok.