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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Spiderfang Grots Discussion

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I don't get why anyone would take an arachnarok variant without a shaman, what's the rationale I'm not seeing? Cheaper sure... But they're not survivable, they don't do a lot of damage, they're not fast. The flinger has a cool fight last ability but it's not reliable. Am I missing something?

 

 

I rejigged my list for the weekend tournament

 

3 shaman arachnaroks

Troggoth hag

10 spider riders and 2x5 spider riders

All 4 gloomspite endless spells + cogs and geminids. 

 

Think of this combo - troggoth hag is gloomspite keyword now since the update. So, spider casts hand of gork on her and she's 9 away (ideally from 2 units). Her shooting attack is 6 shots doing d3 damage on 3s. The range is 10... People aren't gonna expect her to teleport and then shoot so well.

But before she shoots, after she gets teleported in the magic phase there is nothing stopping her from casting her spell which has a 12" range to -1 hit and -1 save a unit. Further, I'd also have cogs off and have a spare cp to reroll the charge (she's a hero). So, 75 percent chance to make the charge, she's -2 to hit, she's in range to dispelled and cause mortal wounds on a wizard who may have been avoiding her and she heals d6 wounds. I'm willing to bet she can survive a turn on her own with careful placement. 

THEN on turn 2 I can drop the other -2 to hit arachnarok beside her which is now -3 to hit because of the troggoth spell. Then if I want to troll even harder I can cast geminids (just gotta be careful it doesn't hit me back) and get up to -4 or -2/-3 from multiple units. I'll have 2 other arachnaroks picking on small units while my general and hag deal with 2-3 heavy hitters and the spiders run around on objectives. I may split the unit of 10 into 2 units of 5 just for more board control. Or hell, could take even more spells lol. I'll have 7 buffed casts per turn. Could add pendulum and more

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6 minutes ago, Raoiley said:

The flinger has a cool fight last ability but it's not reliable. Am I missing something?

The flinger still isn't very good for it's points. It probably still needs to come down to 250 to be on par with the Warparty variant.

The Warparty is actually very good for its points. If you ignore the fact that there are 2 more spear/bow attacks with the crew, it can reroll run/charge rolls and also does what are essentially impact hits on the charge.

The Skitterstrand variant is an OK variant. Being able to just drop a very large monster late game within 9" of an enemy is useful for stealing key objectives, which are usually game defining moments. I've had games pre-gloomspite where I've won only because I've had lowly goblins run away from fights they can't win to steal objectives.

From an alpha strike perspective and utilising the batallion, being able to drop 3 skitterstrands within 9" of an enemy and those getting +3" to charge meaning you only need to roll 6's to charge means that you're likely to get them into combat the turn they're deployed.

Right now, the Shaman arachnarok is no longer the default one. I really think the Warparty is a brilliant variant for its points.

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Just now, froo said:

The flinger still isn't very good for it's points. It probably still needs to come down to 250 to be on par with the Warparty variant.

The Warparty is actually very good for its points. If you ignore the fact that there are 2 more spear/bow attacks with the crew, it can reroll run/charge rolls and also does what are essentially impact hits on the charge.

The Skitterstrand variant is an OK variant. Being able to just drop a very large monster late game within 9" of an enemy is useful for stealing key objectives, which are usually game defining moments. I've had games pre-gloomspite where I've won only because I've had lowly goblins run away from fights they can't win to steal objectives.

From an alpha strike perspective and utilising the batallion, being able to drop 3 skitterstrands within 9" of an enemy and those getting +3" to charge meaning you only need to roll 6's to charge means that you're likely to get them into combat the turn they're deployed.

Right now, the Shaman arachnarok is no longer the default one. I really think the Warparty is a brilliant variant for its points.

That's interesting, I missed some of those on the war party variant!

 

Sidenote, can an arachnarok shaman take a destruction trait (bellowing tyrant) since it can't take a gloomspite trait?

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22 minutes ago, Raoiley said:

Sidenote, can an arachnarok shaman take a destruction trait (bellowing tyrant) since it can't take a gloomspite trait?

You could if you decide to take GA: Destruction, but that would mean you miss out on the badmoon stuff, access to the gloomspite artefacts etc and likely the loonshrine too.

So technically yes, but realistically theres too much free stuff from the Gloomspite allegiance that it's not worth it.

Besides, the Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok kind of has a trait baked into it with the +2 bravery aura. That bravery aura seems good on first glance, but there are a couple reasons why its not as needed as it might have been pre-gloomspite.

You now don't need to burn Command Points to get the 5+ mortal wound output aura from the Boss on Giant Spider (now Scuttleboss) as you can get it from the Totem Artefact and also from the light of the Bad Moon - that means you're likely to have more command points to spare for inspiring aura.

The banner on the spider riders gives them +2 bravery all the time now, as opposed to how they used to be before when there were no enemies close by. This is a big deal as its a +2 model swing in your favour in combats now. That combined with them always having a 5+ save means they're a lot more resilient and the Shaman's aura is just not needed.

If you've got a Scuttleboss mini, he's a really good candidate for General and give him Monstrous Mount. If you look at his warscroll, they've updated the Spider-Venom rule for him to also work with his Envenomed Spear - so all of his wounds do mortal wounds. Combined with the Shaman on Arachnarok's spell, that gives him a potential of 32 mortal wounds just by himself with no artefacts (each mortal wound does 4). Add in the Black Fang and you can add in another D3 to each of his spear attacks giving him another 12 which brings up the total to 44 from 1 little 100 point dude. I would only give him that artefact though after you've given the Totem artefact to someone else though.

That all being said though, there is probably a good argument for a Webspinner Shaman general, with the healing endless spell for himself, taking the healing spell on himself and just a bunch of spider riders (90). 2 Wound models, with bravery 8 - just aren't going to budge in combat - that's almost chaos warrior/stormcast level of tankiness.

Edited by froo

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Played my first game the other night. Here are my thoughts. Totem on A’rock is amazing, Skuttleboss with monstrous mount just kills things (one shotted my oponants Black coach), I did find the Moon and Shrine had little 

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Or no effect on the game. Before the game I was debating the usefulness of any of the A’rocks and now I would definitely include at least one maybe two  shamans but not any other kind. 

Mall the buffs you are going to use come from spell. Command points are for battleshock and charges. I tried using the cauldron but never managed to get it off. I will be bring some cheep moonclan casters next time.  

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6 hours ago, froo said:

You could if you decide to take GA: Destruction, but that would mean you miss out on the badmoon stuff, access to the gloomspite artefacts etc and likely the loonshrine too.

So technically yes, but realistically theres too much free stuff from the Gloomspite allegiance that it's not worth it.

Besides, the Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok kind of has a trait baked into it with the +2 bravery aura. That bravery aura seems good on first glance, but there are a couple reasons why its not as needed as it might have been pre-gloomspite.

You now don't need to burn Command Points to get the 5+ mortal wound output aura from the Boss on Giant Spider (now Scuttleboss) as you can get it from the Totem Artefact and also from the light of the Bad Moon - that means you're likely to have more command points to spare for inspiring aura.

The banner on the spider riders gives them +2 bravery all the time now, as opposed to how they used to be before when there were no enemies close by. This is a big deal as its a +2 model swing in your favour in combats now. That combined with them always having a 5+ save means they're a lot more resilient and the Shaman's aura is just not needed.

If you've got a Scuttleboss mini, he's a really good candidate for General and give him Monstrous Mount. If you look at his warscroll, they've updated the Spider-Venom rule for him to also work with his Envenomed Spear - so all of his wounds do mortal wounds. Combined with the Shaman on Arachnarok's spell, that gives him a potential of 32 mortal wounds just by himself with no artefacts (each mortal wound does 4). Add in the Black Fang and you can add in another D3 to each of his spear attacks giving him another 12 which brings up the total to 44 from 1 little 100 point dude. I would only give him that artefact though after you've given the Totem artefact to someone else though.

That all being said though, there is probably a good argument for a Webspinner Shaman general, with the healing endless spell for himself, taking the healing spell on himself and just a bunch of spider riders (90). 2 Wound models, with bravery 8 - just aren't going to budge in combat - that's almost chaos warrior/stormcast level of tankiness.

Sadly, scuttleboss ability has changed. His command ability doesn't move wounds to 5+ anymore, it lets you run and charge.

 

I used one in my first game and with the Fang and monstrous mount he was indeed quite killy but then he just died on his own. He is definitely not resilient and quite easy to one-shot

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2 hours ago, Raoiley said:

Sadly, scuttleboss ability has changed. His command ability doesn't move wounds to 5+ anymore, it lets you run and charge.

 

I used one in my first game and with the Fang and monstrous mount he was indeed quite killy but then he just died on his own. He is definitely not resilient and quite easy to one-shot

For 100 points he is one of the more killy chars anyway, my best roll was 24 mortals.

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21 hours ago, froo said:

You could if you decide to take GA: Destruction, but that would mean you miss out on the badmoon stuff, access to the gloomspite artefacts etc and likely the loonshrine too.

So technically yes, but realistically theres too much free stuff from the Gloomspite allegiance that it's not worth it.

Besides, the Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok kind of has a trait baked into it with the +2 bravery aura. That bravery aura seems good on first glance, but there are a couple reasons why its not as needed as it might have been pre-gloomspite.

You now don't need to burn Command Points to get the 5+ mortal wound output aura from the Boss on Giant Spider (now Scuttleboss) as you can get it from the Totem Artefact and also from the light of the Bad Moon - that means you're likely to have more command points to spare for inspiring aura.

The banner on the spider riders gives them +2 bravery all the time now, as opposed to how they used to be before when there were no enemies close by. This is a big deal as its a +2 model swing in your favour in combats now. That combined with them always having a 5+ save means they're a lot more resilient and the Shaman's aura is just not needed.

If you've got a Scuttleboss mini, he's a really good candidate for General and give him Monstrous Mount. If you look at his warscroll, they've updated the Spider-Venom rule for him to also work with his Envenomed Spear - so all of his wounds do mortal wounds. Combined with the Shaman on Arachnarok's spell, that gives him a potential of 32 mortal wounds just by himself with no artefacts (each mortal wound does 4). Add in the Black Fang and you can add in another D3 to each of his spear attacks giving him another 12 which brings up the total to 44 from 1 little 100 point dude. I would only give him that artefact though after you've given the Totem artefact to someone else though.

That all being said though, there is probably a good argument for a Webspinner Shaman general, with the healing endless spell for himself, taking the healing spell on himself and just a bunch of spider riders (90). 2 Wound models, with bravery 8 - just aren't going to budge in combat - that's almost chaos warrior/stormcast level of tankiness.

I've definitely seem the damage, it's just tough to use if he's gonna get knocked around after that. Plus, then I need to take the Fang and use the double damage spell on him. If he's still the same after the faq I might be convinced though.

 

I guess arachnaroks stack their casting bonus? It says +1 for range of model, doesn't stipulate "any" like a hurricanum for example

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I dont know much about spiders but this looks like a lot to chew through. Are spiders a glass cannon type list? I feel like all of them would be too squishy.


Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100)
- General
- Trait: Monstrous Mount 
- Artefact: The Black Fang 
Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100)
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)
- Artefact: Totem of the Spider God 
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Curse of da Spider God
15 x Spider Riders (300)
15 x Spider Riders (300)
10 x Spider Riders (200)
10 x Spider Riders (200)
Spider Rider Skittermob (120)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)
Scuttletide (30)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 140

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Here's the pure Spiderfang list I'm going to try out this Saturday. I was impressed by the Skitterstrands in my last list, time to try out the Warparty variant. 

LEADERS

Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100) - General - Command Trait : Monstrous Mount - Artefact : Gryph-feather Charm

Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300) - Artefact : Totem of the Spider God

Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)

Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100)

UNITS

10 x Spider Riders (200)

10 x Spider Riders (200)

10 x Spider Riders (200)

BEHEMOTHS

Arachnarok Spider with Spiderfang Warparty (250)

Arachnarok Spider with Spiderfang Warparty (250)

BATTALIONS

Arachnarok Spider Cluster (100)

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Is it normal that the number of what pice you should use when building the big spider is missing in the guide ? 

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On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 1:51 PM, Malakithe said:

I dont know much about spiders but this looks like a lot to chew through. Are spiders a glass cannon type list? I feel like all of them would be too squishy.


Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100)
- General
- Trait: Monstrous Mount 
- Artefact: The Black Fang 
Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (100)
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)
- Artefact: Totem of the Spider God 
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (300)
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Curse of da Spider God
15 x Spider Riders (300)
15 x Spider Riders (300)
10 x Spider Riders (200)
10 x Spider Riders (200)
Spider Rider Skittermob (120)
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)
Scuttletide (30)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 140

I don't think I would go for the second Boss. You should be using your A'rocks to support your riders and as the 5+ isn't liked to the boss I don't see a use for him. Maybe a foot shaman instead?

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quick question. Does the "pass over terrain" thing mean thatyou can ignore effects of wildwoods and deadly terrain?

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Long answer: "yes" with an "and"; short answer: "no" with a "but".

You can pass over deadly terrain without effect.

You can't ignore the effect if you end your movement on it.

In both cases, you are affected by any line-of-sight blocking effects as usual.

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On 1/23/2019 at 1:39 AM, trarux said:

Is it normal that the number of what pice you should use when building the big spider is missing in the guide ? 

no. there are versions of the assembly instructions from WFB times where the components are numbered in the assembly instructions. 

Email GW support, they will send you the instructions, usually very quickly. 

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So I'm thinking of going spiderfangs, here is a list I'm tossing up at the moment

Scuttleboss-masterful spider rider, totem of da spider god

Webspinner shaman on arachnarok-headdress of many eyes, sneaky distraction 

Webspinner shaman on arachnarok-gift of da spider God

10 spider riders-bone drummer, spider totem

10 spider riders-bone drummer, spider totem 

10 spider riders-bone drummer, spider totem

Arachnarok spider with war party

Arachnarok spider with war party

Spider rider skitterswarm

Scuttletide

Scrapscuttle's arachnacauldron

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On 1/19/2019 at 12:15 AM, Raoiley said:

I rejigged my list for the weekend tournament

 

3 shaman arachnaroks

Troggoth hag

10 spider riders and 2x5 spider riders

All 4 gloomspite endless spells + cogs and geminids. 

 

@Raoiley I'm curious about this list. How did the tournament go?

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The "New" orcs and goblins stuff has some buffs that just taget GROTS that would mean it works for spiderfang right? The grot warboss gives +1 attack! Would that not be pretty good or am i missing something

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On 1/28/2019 at 9:58 PM, mmmbbb3 said:

The "New" orcs and goblins stuff has some buffs that just taget GROTS that would mean it works for spiderfang right? The grot warboss gives +1 attack! Would that not be pretty good or am i missing something

Where did you find that? I just looked at the Legends document and they only mention "Goblins" of different kinds (and a Goblin Warboss, as opposed to a Grot Warboss). The Orcs and Goblins section of the app has the "Gitboss", but he has no ability to buff, so what am I missing here? :P

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12 minutes ago, Mayple said:

Where did you find that? I just looked at the Legends document and they only mention "Goblins" of different kinds (and a Goblin Warboss, as opposed to a Grot Warboss). The Orcs and Goblins section of the app has the "Gitboss", but he has no ability to buff, so what am I missing here? :P

Sorry i mixed up grot and goblins keywords

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Just want to let everyone know I finished 4-2, 45th overall (fourth best Destruction/second best Gloomspite), and won second best sports trophy at CanCon this past weekend with a mostly spiderfang list.

 

Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (G) - Monstrous Mount + The Black Fang

Webspinner on Arachnarok - Totem of the Spider God + Scuttling Terrors

Fungoid Cave Shaman - Hand of Gork

15x Spider Riders

10x Spider riders

20x Stabbas

20x Stabbas

2x Skitterstrand Arachnaroks

Skitterstrand Nest

Chronomantic Cogs

Arachnacauldron

 

Lost to Daughters of Khaine in round 1 (3PP) and the only other Spiderfang player at the tournament in round 5 on the turn 3 priority roll (Knife to the Heart).  Was a great weekend, and I learned a lot about the list and about spiders in general.  I'm not certain on whether I'll play them for the rest of the year or not, since tweaking the list will have to include massive changes since there isn't too much fat to trim.

 

Spiders are a lot more finesse and nuance than I thought when building this list.  And I didn't learn that until I'd consecutively lost my 3 practice games and my first round game.  Once I started to play the list a little better, things started to improve, and I went 4-1 to finish out...which could have just as easily been 5-0 if I had won that priority.  Overall, there is still a lot of room for improvement as I could play my shaman and my scuttleboss much better.

 

Anywho, if you guys want to know anything in particular, don't be afraid to give me a shout.

 

Edited by mcbrain
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What spells were you running?  Was your scuttleboss the wrecker i think he is?  Did your skitterstrand earn their points?  

Who do you feel was the star(s) of this list.  Im 1-2 in a slow grow league...and i too am struggling with the finese side...different than my daughters of khaine who just run up and charge...

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2 hours ago, basement dweller said:

What spells were you running?  Was your scuttleboss the wrecker i think he is?  Did your skitterstrand earn their points?  

Who do you feel was the star(s) of this list.  Im 1-2 in a slow grow league...and i too am struggling with the finese side...different than my daughters of khaine who just run up and charge...

I ran scuttling terrors on the shaman and hand of gork on the Fungoid. Both were absolutely crucial in every game. I did cast itchy nuisance in one game with the Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok after he cast the arachnacauldron in a prior turn. 

 

The scuttleboss’ best achievement of the weekend was killing a unit of 10 shadow warriors. HE IS THE MAIN REASON THIS LIST IS FINESSE. He’s REALLY squishy and if he’s not benefitting from every buff available his damage output is not reliable. I’d say 4 out of 6 games he died before I could even attack with him. That’s 100% on me, but he takes some learning. Can’t just point him in a general direction and let him loose. He’ll get merked every single time. 

 

The skitterstrand absolutely earned their points. Just the threat of them coming out of ambush was enough in most games. However, a couple of opponents seemed to have forgotten about them, and they made them pay. They’re not bloodthirsters or even mangler squigs, but two of them popping out with cogs up and needing a 5” charge to get into a soft target is really handy. If I were smarter, I would have hand of gorked my scuttleboss over where they were popping out prior to casting hand to at least allow them to reroll their charges (I missed two 5” charges over the weekend). 

 

Star of the list was no doubt the Fungoid shaman. He’s so resilient and his once per game double cast came in clutch. After that I’d say the webspinner on arachnarok and the skitterstrands were equally as important. 

 

Spider riders are good, but at the end of the day, they’re light cavalry. Any sort of real oomph they provide you is a bonus. 

 

I really think I can turn this list into a 4 game winner at a 5 game tournament, and if I get a lucky draw potentially win 5 games. There are just a lot of variables that go into it and a lot of things you need to do properly to be successful. 

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