AoS 2 - Spiderfang Grots Discussion

[Ganigumo]

6 hours ago, novakai said:

I will say that without warscroll changes it would be hard since that what really hurts the spider right now

Their is stuff they can do on the top of my head through allegiance abilities.

MW trigger on bow shot either hits or wounds of unmodified roll of 6

CA to improve venom Bites by +1 (basically the old ability)

Maybe might makes right on big spiders for better objective securing

mount traits

of course I feel like with WD supplements they tend to be more safer and thematic rules then on the competitive side (with the sole exception of maybe the one for Slaanesh) 

I think its pretty doable to fix spiders if the subfaction is strong enough. Multiplicative buffs are pretty rare, and while it can be tough to get the mortal wound double spell, and the 5+ spider venom they actually hit super hard if you do.

What I'd like to see:
Spider venom applies to crooked spear attacks (although write the description of the single mortal wound version so arachnarok spears don't do d3 mortals) & arachnarok spiders can run 2d6"

CA: Pick a spiderfang unit wholly within 18", that unit's spider venom ability triggers on an unmodified roll of 5 or 6.

CT: Spiderfang Wizard Hero: anything really, so we can choose between the scuttleboss command traits, or giving one to our webspinner

Artifact: something to buff casting if the command trait doesn't

Battalions:

Skitterstrand Ambush Party: 0-1 Scuttleboss, 1 Skitterstrand Arachnarok, 1 Spider Riders: When you choose to hold the skitterstrand arachnarok from this battalion in reserve you may keep the other units from this battalion in reserve as well. When you set up the Skitterstrand Arachnarok up using it's Ambush from Beyond ability you may set up the other units from this battalion in reserve wholly within 3" of the Skitterstrand Arachnarok from this battalion, if you don't or can't those units are destroyed.

I also think spider riders should get a point drop and unit size change. 30 spider riders is insanity, it should be 5-20 90/320

 

If they want spiderfang to be REALLY good they should also make the spider venom effect the bow shots somehow.

[Grim Beasties]

The Tome Celestial: The Grimscuttle Tribes

[Nezzhil]

Three battalions only... We have four so one of them will not be changed.

[Ganigumo]

Entirely new battalions would be cool, but skitterstrand nest is pretty good as is. It wouldn't be awful if the spider rider skitterswarm isn't changed either, as long as the subfaction or superbattalion buff spider riders appropriately.

[novakai]

My bet is on Skitterstrand nest is the one that is left, since it the one that optional in the mega battalion.

though I think they need to change the composition of Stalktribe since it too much cost just to one drop and reroll save rolls

[Deadend]

Does anyone see any benefit to the new WD warscrolls and rules? Could  spider army be in any way competitive now? Has anyone tried out any new builds?

[Ganigumo]

19 hours ago, Deadend said:

Does anyone see any benefit to the new WD warscrolls and rules? Could  spider army be in any way competitive now? Has anyone tried out any new builds?

No, spiders are nowhere close to being competitive, even with the new rules. That said I did a show with AosCoach going over the new stuff and some lists. The new rules are definitely a buff to spiders overall though, and what we need is either significant point drops (to the point where spider riders are cheap wounds) or some new warscrolls. I'll try to summarize my thoughts on the WD stuff though

• Battalions:
  • Grimscuttle nest: Avoid this, a free teleport every turn would be good on a unit that can reasonably take points, but on a monster with a 160mm base and no charge bonuses that can already deploy anywhere once per game its not worth it. If you want to run skitterstrands stick with the skitterstrand nest from the battletome (which we still keep access to in the subfaction)
  • Grimscuttle Spider Cluster: Great unit composition, allowing us to take multiple webspinners on arachnaroks in a single battalion, sadly arachnaroks don't get a huge benefit from +1 to hit, it adds up to about ~1.2 damage on the top bracket. The fangs naturally hit on 2s at the top bracket too which doesn't help.
  • Grimscuttle Skitterswarm: Amazing, this battalion has great unit composition, and a great effect. The only downside is that you need to roll for the number of units to redeploy, You could fit 2 of these in an army. Remember that you can ignore sub-titles for units in battalions, so you can bring the webspinner on arachnarok in this.
• Abilities:
  • 5+ spell negate: not at all what we needed, but a good effect. Just don't forget about it.
  • Skitterstrands reroll hits against wizards and priests: very situational, skitterstrands should normally tear through foot wizards but it will help them against monster wizards
• Command Ability: Powerful effect but we're made of paper anyways, most of the time when we're in a position to use this our unit has already been clobbered beyond being useful.  Still stay on the lookout for good opportunities.
• Command Trait: Amazing, this is the main reason to run this subfaction (and the reason why I think you should always have a webspinner general now). Turning on the moon effect once per game just adds a bit more consistency to our buffs. Important to note its Webspinner shaman general only, which means  if you did take a scuttleboss general you could still pick from the battletome command traits (although none of those come to this one in utility)
• Artefact: meh, basically a tax, give it to your webspinner general to turn his +2 bravery aura into a +3 one, and get some bravery 9 spider riders. Luckily spiderfang battalions are great, so its easy to make lists with more artefacts than we know what to do with.
• Loonshrine Update: While technically available to all subfactions if they have a spiderfang general this is really good for us. Spider riders are made of paper, and will die so getting some back makes it hurt less.

Overall amazing abilities from the white dwarf for us spiderfang players, but it didn't address our problems of doing no damage, low bulk, and being hyper reliant on inconsistent buffs.

[PlasticCraic]

Very good analysis @Ganigumo, I agree with pretty much everything there.

I did a write up on it too, with a proposed list:

https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/12/17/spiders-baby-white-dwarf-leaks-and-analysis/

I'll make sure I check out your episode of Coach's show too.

[danimo]

for my first AoS game in a year I went with the Grimscuttle Tribes Spiderfang, up against a Lumineth Realm-Lords army that did well at a local tournament recently.  The mission was Forcing the Hand and it was pretty close.  I made a few goofs early on, notably losing 13 riders to battleshock because I did not pay attention to what exactly a Scinari Cathallar can do if I kill half a unit of spear-elves and burned my CP when I should have held it.

Fun game.  The White Dwarf rules go a long way toward fixing the issues I had with this army when the Gloomspite book came out. 

 

 

[PlasticCraic]

That's awesome!  Glad you had a good game, and are enjoying the rules.

[Newtype_Zero]

Grimscuttle Tribes called out specifically during Warhammer Fest today for BR: Kragnos. Hopefully some buffs to make our boys better!

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Newtype_Zero
typo

[Nezzhil]

10 hours ago, Newtype_Zero said:

Grimscuttle Tribes called out specifically during Warhammer Fest today for BR: Kragnos. Hopefully some buffs to make our boys better!

 

The time of the spider has come! 😍

[Ganigumo]

Anyone else think this could be a spiderfang spear?

Might even come with BR Kragnos if we haven't already seen everything given grimscuttle are showing up

[Verminlord]

That looks too forged to be a spiderfang bit. That is probably from the 40k beast snaggas line.

I could potentially see a plastic scuttleboss being released though.

[Ganigumo]

41 minutes ago, Verminlord said:

That looks too forged to be a spiderfang bit. That is probably from the 40k beast snaggas line.

I could potentially see a plastic scuttleboss being released though.

Yeah my thought is mostly that the spear is a bit reminiscent of a spider leg.

[PlasticCraic]

Super excited to see what we get!  I'm hoping it's more than just a reprint of the WD rules.

[Lord Krungharr]

Me thinks I'm gonna buy back into Spiderfang.  I ran them for a while, but sold all my Gloomspite when I moved again.  They were fun and almost nobody runs them.  Not that they'll win too much but I can ally and add a few legs to Kragnos to make a Arackragnosarok

 

[Lord Krungharr]

Back on the horse, or spider so to speak!  Got an Arachnarok Shaman, foot Shaman, 30 spider-riders, Arachnarok Warparty and a Skitterstrand version, plus endless spells and a finecast Scuttleboss. 

Even after whatever adjustments come with the 3.0 and GHB2021 I think I'll be in good shape.  Not sure if the battalions will still be usable in Matched Play though, that's a rumor I am hoping is incorrect (those White Dwarf rules look to be pretty sneaky and fun).  But with a Fungoid Shaman or two, and deepstriking giant spiders, this can be my tricksy army, painted in metallic Lisa Frank colors.

One of my friends expects a points increase in many units due to a rumored decrease in table size; he said that happened in 40k.  I don't think Spiderfang will get that though, except maybe a little on the big ones, as the riders are a bit overcosted currently.  But with monsters doing more stuff they might get a hike.

[Ganigumo]

30 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Back on the horse, or spider so to speak!  Got an Arachnarok Shaman, foot Shaman, 30 spider-riders, Arachnarok Warparty and a Skitterstrand version, plus endless spells and a finecast Scuttleboss. 

Even after whatever adjustments come with the 3.0 and GHB2021 I think I'll be in good shape.  Not sure if the battalions will still be usable in Matched Play though, that's a rumor I am hoping is incorrect (those White Dwarf rules look to be pretty sneaky and fun).  But with a Fungoid Shaman or two, and deepstriking giant spiders, this can be my tricksy army, painted in metallic Lisa Frank colors.

One of my friends expects a points increase in many units due to a rumored decrease in table size; he said that happened in 40k.  I don't think Spiderfang will get that though, except maybe a little on the big ones, as the riders are a bit overcosted currently.  But with monsters doing more stuff they might get a hike.

Welcome to the stalktribe!

I'm not sure how strong we'll be in the next edition, our units are pretty weak overall but we do prey on high armor elite units, so if the game moves towards higher saves (which it looks like it might) we might be in a good spot. Potential loss of our battalioms will hurt though.

 

Nothing in spiderfang should get an increase, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. Something else to keep in mind with the 40k comparison is that 40k armies tended to be bigger anyways.

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah I got the spiders again for funzies rather than competition.   And being spiders I can make a really weird display using magnets, since they can climb on anything 🕷 

sometimes players make mistakes when facing something they have never seen before.  Good spoiler effect 

[Nimbaway]

Hello everyone, a soon to be new AoS player here. I'll probably be making the full plunge once the new edition hits, but aiming to go for a Spiderfang based army when I do. So far this thread has been an interesting read and bookmarked it for the future for sure.

I had a curiosity question ahead of things, mostly for those some more experience with running these lists already. How viable would it be running a list that also runs some Fanatics. I just love the look of those models and wondered how well they mix into a list.

Though if it comes to it, I'm already thinking about using them decoratively on the bigger spiders.

[Ganigumo]

In order to bring Loonsmasha fanatics you need to bring some grots to hide them in. It wouldn't be bad to bring a unit as an anvil, and fanatics can put out some pretty solid damage. I typically bring a unit of troggs for that purpose, but the reinforcement limit might change things up a bit.

Sporesplattas are mostly just to block LoS and buff grots.

[Lord Krungharr]

The changes to coherency are kinda bad for our spider-riders, as they need units of 10 for the drummer and icon don't they?  Feels like most of them won't get to bite.  But should be easy to fill out some core battalions, though I'm bummed about not having the Skitterstrand Nest anymore for Matched Play.

Anybody have some strategies brewing in their minds about the new edition?  Thought I read somewhere Gitz were on the forefront of the batteltome update list.  Frankly I might just go endless spell heavy with like 3 Webspinner A-roks.  That's a change I've been liking the looks of.  Scuttletide can be twice as annoying for people!  And I think Emerald Lifeswarm will be very useful as well.  Can't remember what Malevolent Moon does but looks so cool I'll paint it up for sure.

[Lord Krungharr]

I think we're in good shape!  Looks like only the A-rok Shaman went up by 15 points.  Possibly the Warparty A-Rok a bit but I'm more interested in running 2 big Shaman, 2 Skitterstrands, 6x5 Spiderriders, 2 Fungoid Shamans, and a little Web Shaman, plus a couple endless spells.  This will be a thinking arachnid's army now with all the CA/CP business, plus monsters and magic stuff.

[Ganigumo]

The increase to scuttletide hurt, and stuff went up that had no business going up (some cities monsters did go down) but its not a crippling change.

The list I'm looking to shift to is one running a command entourage and a battke regiment and looks something like:

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz

Leaders
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295)
- General
- Command Trait: Prophet of da Spider God
- Artefact: Shyishan Spider-sigils
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Gift of da Spider God
Webspinner Shaman on Arachnarok Spider (295)
- Artefact: Totem of the Spider God
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Sneaky Distraction
Webspinner Shaman (85)
- Lore of the Spiderfangs: Scuttling Terrors
Scuttleboss on Gigantic Spider (105)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (95)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork

Battleline
15 x Spider Riders (300)
10 x Spider Riders (200)
5 x Spider Riders (100)
5 x Spider Riders (100)

Behemoths
Arachnarok Spider with Spiderfang Warparty (225)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (50)
Scuttletide (85)
Chronomantic Cogs (45)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126