AoS 2 - Moonclan Discussion

[Bob Destroyer of Worlds]

oh Milandro you just beat me to posting these pics :oD

I think they look great and there are two other monsters in the 2nd crew we havent seen yet. 

[Malakree]

So, lots to unpack here.

The first thing to note is that in the initial 8 we had 2 warbands which, for AoS, were two separate units. A character and a their bodyguard. In each case the character directly correlated to a pre-existing hero, the skaven warlord and Auric Runefather.

When we look at the two warbands we have an in-depth for we see something intresting.

The Briar Queen Warband

1. The Briar Queen is clearly a banshee.
2. Varclav the cruel is shown to have a set of keys and a candle. This is super important as I'll list below.
3. Every other model is either called a chainrasp or, the everhanged, has the rules text "this fighter is a chainrasp"

Now as to why Varclav having keys and a candle is so important. When we look at the Easy to Build Chainrasp Horde and read the description it says the following.

Quote

...the kit includes options for a Dreadwarden; this is the unit leader, face locked in an iron helm, carrying a large candelabra along with a set of heavy iron keys.

This means that Varclav is a Dreadwarden, the unit champion for a squad of Chainrasps. So we now have a Banshee and a unit of Chainrasps. So it's not a stretch to see the Briar Queen as being a Tomb Banshee variant.

Stormsire's Cursebreakers Warband

Now following on from the Briar Queen we now have some intresting points here.

1. In the description of Ammis Dawnguard it says 

   Quote

   Ammis Dawnguard is an Evocator

   She wields a Stormstave and Tempest Blade

2. Rastus also wields a Stormstave and Tempest Blade plus he sports the following text

   Quote

   Rastus the Charmed fights much like Ammis Dawnguard

   This establishes both as Evocators and they both wield the weapons of Evocators.

3. Averon Stormsire DOES NOT say he's an Evocator, despite being the first model to be described.
4. Averon also doesn't use a stormstave and tempest blade, instead carrying an "Incantor's Staff"

This makes builds upon what we saw in the Briar Queen Warband by almost definitely establishing Averon Stormsire as a Knight-Incantor, right down to him literally CARRYING the same weapon.

The Teaser Trailer

So by now we have established that the first two warbands are a Character Variant with a Unit Variant. So lets take a look at the other warbands revealed, what it tells us and why I'm writing a massive post/spurging so hard over this.

Zarbag's Gits 

• Clearly a Moonclan Shaman Variant
• Two squigs
• Two Specialist Nightgoblins
• The teased grot is more armoured and detailed so could easily be a unit champion.

Eyes of the Nine

• A pink Horror
• A Tzaangor
• A Kairic Acolyte
• An strange champion of somekind.

This is possibly the hardest, until you read the Flavour Text on the warscroll for the Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch. 

Quote

There are but nine Gaunt Summoners, one of the most powerful orders of sorcerers dedicated to Tzeentch. Gazing into infinity with a myriad glistening eyes, a Gaunt Summoner calls forth daemons from the Realm of Chaos or summons sheets of infernal flames to engulf the foe. Those who dare approach too close are stabbed with a mutation-causing warptongue blade.

Using the pre-established pattern it's not a stretch to see that the leader here is one of the nine Gaunt Summoners. Which again means we have a character and a unit.

Unnamed Darkoath Warband

• Three Chaos Marauderers
• A Darkoath Queen

I hope you can all see the pattern that's been established by now, quick fire time before I build up to the finale.

Unnamed Sylvaneth Warband

• Three Tree-Revenants
• A Wanderers Spell-weaver ?????

Unnamed Kharadron Overlords

• Some Kharadron Dudes
• Does the leader look just like an Aether-Khemist Compete with the same backpack, stupid eye setup and straight bands going backwards over the top of his head?

The Grand Finale

So by now I have established a very strong case for it being a Unit Variant alongside a Character variant. So lets take a quick look at the monster warband which I skipped over

• Some tiny little monsters
• A squig
• A ****** TROGGOTH LEADER

Not only are trolls being added to moonclan, from the squig, but there is going to be a Troggoth Character for them! Holy ****** guys Throgg has got competition!

[novakai]

Hmm maybe this time around the unit leader are named character and they have their own separated Warscroll from the Warband warscroll (or they just use the same warscroll as their counterparts, but that still implies that their Troggoth character/hero unit of some kind coming soon)

man if this guy is implied to also be spellcaster too he going to be like a mini Troggoth Hag.

well looks like the dream of fielding a full Troll army on the TT is nearer then we think

[Vasshpit]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

 

• Some tiny little monsters
• A squig
• A ****** TROGGOTH LEADER

Not only are trolls being added to moonclan, from the squig, but there is going to be a Troggoth Character for them! Holy ****** guys Throgg has got competition!

Exciting indeed! As a fan i really hope not all Troggs are derpy mutants now though... ☹

[svnvaldez]

Wrong thread

 

[Windowz95]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

 

• A ****** TROGGOTH LEADER

Not only are trolls being added to moonclan, from the squig, but there is going to be a Troggoth Character for them! Holy ****** guys Throgg has got competition!

So can we finally get Troggoth are "battleline if" we have this guy? ? Forget two front teeth, this is all I want for Christmas.

[DrDemento]

While I hope that there will be a separate fungoid trogg warband, I think it may be more likely that the troll is part of the grot warband.

In any case, super excited about anything happening with troggoths!

[Dirtnaps]

2 minutes ago, DrDemento said:

While I hope that there will be a separate fungoid trogg warband, I think it may be more likely that the troll is part of the grot warband.

In any case, super excited about anything happening with troggoths!

It's been revealed that it's apart of it's own warband with some mushroom thing, a little rock dude and the flying squig in the Lore video on the community site.

[Skabnoze]

6 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Exciting indeed! As a fan i really hope not all Troggs are derpy mutants now though... ☹

When have trolls not been derpy mutants?  That has sort of always been their thing in Warhammer.  Trolls all have shared traits, but the different subtypes are basically mutations based upon their common diets.

[Skabnoze]

35 minutes ago, Dirtnaps said:

It's been revealed that it's apart of it's own warband with some mushroom thing, a little rock dude and the flying squig in the Lore video on the community site.

As much as I love the troll model, that killer stalagmite is just amazing.  The little murderous mushroom is great also.

[Vasshpit]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

When have trolls not been derpy mutants?  That has sort of always been their thing in Warhammer.  Trolls all have shared traits, but the different subtypes are basically mutations based upon their common diets.

You sir, Mr. Goblien of the Goblinest, know what I'm talking about. 

I love me some big dumb rampaging troll love as much as the next but this is one fan that does not like GWs interpretation of "If Throgg and Sloth from the goonies had a baby covered in hullucinigetics." This is our new era Trogg. Just not feeling it.

To each their own. Subjective and all that. 

Again, I state, im a fan of the creature design underneath the derp but I think its just a bit too much. 

Carry on with ya bad goblin self! ?

[Skabnoze]

40 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

You sir, Mr. Goblien of the Goblinest, know what I'm talking about. 

I love me some big dumb rampaging troll love as much as the next but this is one fan that does not like GWs interpretation of "If Throgg and Sloth from the goonies had a baby covered in hullucinigetics." This is our new era Trogg. Just not feeling it.

To each their own. Subjective and all that. 

Again, I state, im a fan of the creature design underneath the derp but I think its just a bit too much. 

Carry on with ya bad goblin self! ?

Fair enough.

Not everyone will like all models as aesthetics are inherently subjective and there is no wrong or right to aesthetic preference.

While “throgg and sloth from the Goonies has a baby covered in hallucinagenics” sounds amazing to me I can get why you might not like it.

My hope is that this is the design for a character or new fungus troll subtype, but that other trolls push the old troll visuals in different ways.  I don’t want to see stone trolls or river trolls resculpted like this troll.  I think this guy looks great, but I like him more as something different than as a template for all new trolls.  So I agree with you in that regard.

But in other news - how about the mushroom monster and killer stalagmite!  I now want giant units of these guys on the table.

[Vasshpit]

I an quite the fan of the little critter things!

The idea of a whole armor of these lead by troggs shroom shamans is very cool and i anxiously awake news on that front!

Quite surprised to see a warband comprised of this.

[pseudonyme]

Do you think they will update the grots and the fanatics so that they won't look too outdated compared to those in the upcoming Nightvault warband ?

[novakai]

5 minutes ago, pseudonyme said:

Do you think they will update the grots and the fanatics so that they won't look too outdated compared to those in the upcoming Nightvault warband ?

I doubt they will update the Moonclan grot since they re-box them already and I think they are not that outdated and a pretty good kit still. new fanatics could happen though.

but I think they would update the non plastic kit first like the Grot warboss, Grot Warboss on Cave squig, Squigs/ Squig herders, Squig Hoppers, and maybe the Squig Mangler

[Skabnoze]

To me it looks like the existing grots will already visually fit in with the grot warband.

[pseudonyme]

What I mean is, depending on the level of AgeOfSigmarisation of the grots, they might stand out a little too much.

[DrDemento]

22 hours ago, Dirtnaps said:

It's been revealed that it's apart of it's own warband with some mushroom thing, a little rock dude and the flying squig in the Lore video on the community site.

Oooohhh!  I should have watched the video first!  Very exciting prospects.

I wonder or hope that this portents a Legion of Fungoids style battletome...and if so, would greenskinz orruks be included, and old gitmob (hopefully not compendiumed)?  

40k lore has all of them as fungus based.

[novakai]

So the warscroll for the new shadespire warband in the starter set are up and it confirm that the leaders are named characters with their own warscroll though they have the same exact stats and abilities as their counterpart.

so when Zarbag get release he has the same warscroll as a regular moonclan shaman just that it a named character

that mean spell caster troll hero is going to happen soon.

Edit: if you field the war-band in a game they count as two separated units that work independently but share the same cost, however they cost more then the previous warband. The Stormsire cost 300 and the briar queen one cost 150

[Skabnoze]

6 hours ago, pseudonyme said:

What I mean is, depending on the level of AgeOfSigmarisation of the grots, they might stand out a little too much.

I see what you mean, but I don’t think any of the models in the Moonclan grots set are average grots.  We have a shaman, a fanatic, a netter, a couple squigs, and something that appears entirely new.  The guy in armor with the hot coal backpack and the branding iron looks like some sort of new unit or hero - probably some type of special Squig herder.

The closest to a standard grot would be the netter.  We don’t know what netters will be when a Moonclan battletome comes out.  Originally netters were their own unit along with clubbers.  Then the clubbers were dropped and netters became an upgrade option for a unit of grots.  They could remain as they currently are or they could be moved into their own unit again.  Either way, I don’t think there would be any issue with one being a bit more detailed and standing out from other grots in a unit.

[kenshin620]

21 hours ago, novakai said:

So the warscroll for the new shadespire warband in the starter set are up and it confirm that the leaders are named characters with their own warscroll though they have the same exact stats and abilities as their counterpart.

 

While mostly true for SCE, not exactly for the nighthaunt.

Briar Queen isn't a Tomb Banshee thats a wizard and an extra wound. She straight up has a shooting attack, has a 3" range melee weapon, doesn't have the banshee scream, nor the Frightful Touch rule.

I actually quite like that shes her own thing. Plus she is (technically ignoring her forced companions) the cheapest wizard for NH.

 

Plus the SCE is based off of 2.0 units, whereas the Tomb Banshee is an old legacy model. Unless the Moonclan Wizard is a reskinned Fungoid Shaman, I don't think he'll be a carbon copy of the old Moonclan Shaman with a different spell.

[novakai]

7 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

While mostly true for SCE, not exactly for the nighthaunt.

Briar Queen isn't a Tomb Banshee thats a wizard and an extra wound. She straight up has a shooting attack, has a 3" range melee weapon, doesn't have the banshee scream, nor the Frightful Touch rule.

I actually quite like that shes her own thing. Plus she is (technically ignoring her forced companions) the cheapest wizard for NH.

 

Plus the SCE is based off of 2.0 units, whereas the Tomb Banshee is an old legacy model. Unless the Moonclan Wizard is a reskinned Fungoid Shaman, I don't think he'll be a carbon copy of the old Moonclan Shaman with a different spell.

Ah I thought Mirrorgheist Banshee was a thing, I didn't know it wasn't a existing unit when I read the warscroll. now that I think about a good portion of the leader units look like different units we never seen before (Darkoath, Troggoth, Tzeencth, Sylventh, and Nighthaunt).

thought I do hope that Troggoth leader is base on something new coming soon. it be pretty awesome if the Moonclan release had new Troggoth units in it.

[kenshin620]

3 minutes ago, novakai said:

Ah I thought Mirrorgheist Banshee was a thing, I didn't know it wasn't a existing unit when I read the warscroll. now that I think about a good portion of the leader units look like different units we never seen before (Darkoath, Troggoth, Tzeencth, Sylventh, and Nighthaunt).

thought I do hope that Troggoth leader is base on something new coming soon. it be pretty awesome if the Moonclan release had new Troggoth units in it.

Well that being said, there are still thematic similarities between Briar Queen and Tomb/Myrmourn Banshees and also Mortarch of Grief (and I'm sure there would be people using her as a count as Banshee). So there would definitely be some new shroom troggoths. Not sure if there would be a Generic Troggoth Wizard, but I would be weirded out if there weren't some new troggoth kit.

 

[John E]

Picture from my new beasts of chaos book , the grots on the squigs with spears do not look like the squig hoppers on the GW page, does anyone know what kit they are from or are they new?

[novakai]

19 minutes ago, John E said:

Picture from my new beasts of chaos book , the grots on the squigs with spears do not look like the squig hoppers on the GW page, does anyone know what kit they are from or are they new?

That the Grot Warboss on Great Cave squig

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Grot-Warboss-on-Great-Cave-Squig