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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Beastclaw Raiders Discussion

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4 hours ago, Slaanesh said:

How bad (or good) would this army be, i want a list that has few models and not so many different ones but still can win.

Allegiance: Destruction
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
Icebrow Hunter (140)
Icebrow Hunter (140)
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
4 x Frost Sabres (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

I'm puzzled by the lack of a skal battalion when you're already taking two icebrows and multiple frost-sabres.

suggestion would be to drop the Icebrow down to one, and replace the second frostlord with a stonehorn beastriders:

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- Artefact: The Pelt of Charngar
Icebrow Hunter (140)
- Artefact: The Bleeding Skull of Dragaar

Battleline
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
Stonehorn Beastriders (320)

Units
6 x Frost Sabres (120)
4 x Frost Sabres (80)
4 x Frost Sabres (80)

Battalions
Skal (150)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 108

 
Edited by WindstormSCR

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Not sure if this is a right place for it, if am wrong mods can just delete this, but I have two questions.  Does anyone know some sort of guide of how to make a thundertusk in to a stonehorn, when you don't have the head of the model?

And my second question is does anyone know how to fix resin models when they start crumble? I got myself a butcher model, but it was warped. A guy at the store told me to heat it up in water and try to bend it back. I did what he said, but instead of bending the butchers legs just broke off and  turned in to flakes. Am trying to fix this somehow, but the thing just keeps breaking up. Am down to like 30+pices right now and some are too small to glue up right now.

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Has anyone played around with the Eurlbad Battalion at all? At 170pts it is significantly cheaper than Beast Hammer and appears to offer some decent punch.

Also, for those of you who have used Beast Hammer, has anyone used units of 6 pigs? I believe the expected damage on pigs is less than Mournfang but a squad of 6 pigs seems like solid chaff (30 wounds on a 4+ at 280pts ?).

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On 7/29/2018 at 6:10 PM, blueshirtman said:

Not sure if this is a right place for it, if am wrong mods can just delete this, but I have two questions.  Does anyone know some sort of guide of how to make a thundertusk in to a stonehorn, when you don't have the head of the model?

And my second question is does anyone know how to fix resin models when they start crumble? I got myself a butcher model, but it was warped. A guy at the store told me to heat it up in water and try to bend it back. I did what he said, but instead of bending the butchers legs just broke off and  turned in to flakes. Am trying to fix this somehow, but the thing just keeps breaking up. Am down to like 30+pices right now and some are too small to glue up right now.

The hot water trick works on plastic - I've never tried it on resin, but I'm not surprised that it didn't work. You got bad advice, I'm afraid.

Regarding how to turn a thundertusk into a stonehorn - I personally magnetize my heads.  Without that, I SUPPOSE you could snip the tusks off the thundertusk and then reattach them so they stick out sideways from the head instead of downwards.  Not sure how much better that would look - but probably as close as you are going to get if you can't find some stonehorn heads somewhere.

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1 hour ago, IndigoGirls said:

Also, for those of you who have used Beast Hammer, has anyone used units of 6 pigs? I believe the expected damage on pigs is less than Mournfang but a squad of 6 pigs seems like solid chaff (30 wounds on a 4+ at 280pts ?).

I have toyed with the idea, but refrained from it due to the fact that pigs are harder to get their charges right and i think with 6 pigs battleshock might be an issue. 

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10 minutes ago, Kessler said:

I have toyed with the idea, but refrained from it due to the fact that pigs are harder to get their charges right and i think with 6 pigs battleshock might be an issue. 

I hadn't considered the possibility of failed battleshock on them. I think I'd really only be scared if I lost 3+ in one round. Then again, I'll have a bonus command point for battleshock test immunity should things go south.

Part of me wants to go so far as to run a squad of 9 as a huge screening unit. In my mind they would...

1. Occupy a huge amount of real estate

2. Be a considerable anvil

3. Increase the effective range of Fierce Rivals

The problem is, I don't feel like Beast Hammer has a unit you really want to screen. They could screen a butcher or thundertusk. Butcher's cauldron doesn't hit them and taking a thundertusk is a whole lot of points, really limiting what else you can fit in the battalion.

@heywoah_twitch I came up with a Beast Hammer list very similar to the one you posted previously (vs Archaon). I made a few swaps and ultimately dropped the extra command point. When you played, did you feel like you needed to start the game with +2 command points? What was your general goal with the command points? Re-rolling charges and the occasional unfortunate battleshock test?

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Is 4 Huskards on Thundertusks still considered a no-no? Or did they get nerfed enough to be reasonable to bring.

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6 hours ago, Enochi said:

Is 4 Huskards on Thundertusks still considered a no-no? Or did they get nerfed enough to be reasonable to bring.

Powerwise they are more than reasonable, not even close to filth.

Only issue is the play experience is very negative for the opponent if you are winning. Your just blasting them from range. Tons of stuff will beat it and I wouldn’t mind one bit playing it. Others might be bothered but I think those are the same people that would complain about a lot of stuff in the game.

Edited by svnvaldez
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Report from the field.

I played 1500 pts vs. Syvaneth.

I had: FL on Stonehorn (gryphfeather charm); Huskard on Thundertusk; 2x4 mournfang; 4 cats.

He had: Allareille; Spirit of Durthu; Branchwych; 3x bow hunters; a bunch of dryads. (then summoned at least 30 more dryads and a treelord).

Scenario: (The one where you have 3 objectives on your side worth 1 - and you can burn your opponents for d3).

I had less drops and took first turn. The wildwoods blocked line of site to important targets on turn 1 for thundertusk.  Frostlord with gryphfeather charm and command point for "at the double" moved 19" giving me short charge to Allareille.  I got her down to 3 wounds. (If I killed her - MAYBE I would have pulled it out). She healed up  and I simply didn't have enough models to keep up with their summoning.  I was ground down and lost 10-15. 

Came away feeling like BCR simply doesn't  have access to  tools to deal with Syvaneth in AOS 2d. Winning was contingent on hoping my opponent making mistakes. I don't know I could have played it any better, yet the prospects for winning simply weren't there.

 

Still love playing BCR. Just be careful going against higher-tier armies.

   

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Fielding Alarielle at 1500 points seems a bit over the top to me. Like, I'm sure there are plenty of armies that would struggle against that. It would have been a pretty dull and one-sided game in the other direction if your Frostlord had taken her out on the charge, too - I'd ask my opponent to leave the god-tier characters to larger games.

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they did such a bad mistake with summoning that it's frustrating.

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As a Sylvaneth and BCR player, I don't think I'd bring Alarielle at 1500 pts. However, that's not my point.

In general, BCR is going to struggle against Sylvaneth simply due to our large cav bases and their ability to create channels and impassible areas via wood placement. The woods are now LOS blocking too, which makes the Thundertusk even more of a miss. Honestly, I'm not sure how much their army composition matters due to the nature of how they play. It's simply a hard match-up.

On 8/4/2018 at 7:54 PM, broche said:

they did such a bad mistake with summoning that it's frustrating.

I can't agree with this less. There are some armies that will, and can, abuse summoning. That being said, GW is quickly fixing the broken elements (i.e. Seraphon changes). I think this is an especially misplaced comment in terms of Sylvaneth. The Dryad summoning is great but far from broken (80pt caster that can't do anything alone, 50-50 chance to summon 10 drayds [can be dispelled], restrictive placement, and can't move when placed make them far from freebies) and Alarielle's once a game summon makes up for the fact that she is a 600 pt model who is otherwise over-costed and a total glass cannon.

Now, can summoning be frustrating? Absolutely. Were certain combinations overlooked? Sure, and GW is already acting to correct the worst offenders. This is a new edition and with it comes a different meta, BCR got the short end of the stick again (which stinks since they were my first AoS love) but it is so refreshing to see armies on the table using these new rules to do interesting things. My buddy plays flesh-eater courts and while they still have a host of problems he can now summon without putting aside points. That certainly makes the army play a lot better, which makes are games closer and thus more enjoyable. I'm sorry if you've had some bad experiences in the new edition, so have I, but I really do feel the pros of new summoning outweigh its cons.

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Would be great to see us get some terrain piece tied summoning. Reading about Svogork posts and Heng stones in the book gave me some ideas.

Heng stones (big shards of ice with glyphs and trophies) could grant points toward summoning in yhetees similar to how gnarlmaws work, as well as bugging nearby yhetees and sabres with their aura of cold. 

Svogork Posts (stakes offerings are tied to in order to appease the ever winter) slaying a hero within a certain distance grants a load of summoning points, plus emperowering our allegiance ability next round, e.g tailwind is a 6" move, mortal pounds happen on a 5+

Just wishlisting really, but would be cool to have our own summoning and terrain piece rules in destruction somewhere ? has anyone made some scenery based on these? 

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On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 3:36 PM, svnvaldez said:

Powerwise they are more than reasonable, not even close to filth.

Only issue is the play experience is very negative for the opponent if you are winning. Your just blasting them from range. Tons of stuff will beat it and I wouldn’t mind one bit playing it. Others might be bothered but I think those are the same people that would complain about a lot of stuff in the game.

Im using 3 in my Mixed Destro list along with a Troll Hag for a caster...my plan is to only run this in tournaments,,dont care what others think as Destruction has so little to choose from competatively.

 

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@IndigoGirls They fixed nothing with seraphon. Good luck winning agains 4 engine of the god summoning 20 skink per turn. You just can't. 

Basically, Seraphon and Sylvaneth (to a lesser extent) where already good army. Now they can generate 20-50% more board coverage than most army for the same cost as before. 

It's already hard to balance point in a game like AoS (and GW are not very good in that area, they usually take 2-3 iterations to get points right). Now you have to deal with "balanced" point, but with armies that can generate point on the board. 

Summoning was perfect in the previous edition: It gave you versatility and board coverage, but you have to keep point. Now it's either play summoning, or play with an handicap.

I'll stop there because it's off topics (except the fact that BCR will never beat seraphon and sylvaneth in this edition)

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22 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

That certainly makes the army play a lot better, which makes are games closer and thus more enjoyable. I'm sorry if you've had some bad experiences in the new edition, so have I, but I really do feel the pros of new summoning outweigh its cons.

Maybe for other armies, that is true. In general I think that change of a stale meta is a very good thing. Seeing new units being used, new types of armies, are a nice thing. But for BCR the change may as well not have happened. There were some point drops, and that is it. No summoning of yetis, no casters added, and it is not like GW couldn't have based those rules changes around already existing models. Right now it feels as if BCR misses all the new cool mechanics, struggles doing scenarios, and non of it problems from the first edition were fixed. On its own it is bad, but if one considers that other armies not only get different, but also got better, the gap is huge.   Not saying other factions have no problems, or that GW didn't do some questionable decisions while making their rules for 2ed, but a LoN or SCE players at least has stuff he may want to play with, I have no idea what could bring a new player to pick up BCR.

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6 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

 I have no idea what could bring a new player to pick up BCR.

Faction aesthetic and the elite nature of it making it easy entry to the hobby.

I only picked up BCR with 2.0 and have been enjoying them quite a bit, and I haven't had the level of problems others seem to be having with them.

my takeaways for BCR versus the 'new hotness':

  • most other factions sources of mortal wounds are more easily denied now, making us stronger because all of ours aren't from spell sources, and there are realm artefacts that help us in this regard just as much as anyone else (give the spellmirror a try, thank me later)
  • As an elite force, if you plan your charges properly and activate units well, you will get a very significant portion of your damage out and minimize the amount of hits taken in return. 2.0's removal of shooting out of combat helps us significantly because volleys of 1-damage weapons are the biggest weakness for things like stonehorns, while mournfang handle them fairly well (and prey-hackers/ironfists are especially nice for tying up shooting-centric units because of MW bounceback)
  • Not having as many battalions isn't as much of a pinch when you generally will not have the characters to use the extra artefacts on, and the command abilities aren't spectacular to begin with, save them for battleshock on mournfangs. The battalions we do have are actually fairly good.

I've played vs summoning sylvaneth in 1500 points, nurgle or nagash at 2k, and summoning has power, but if your target priorities are good and you play the objectives, at best your opponent buys themselves a turn with a speedbump.

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6 hours ago, blueshirtman said:

Maybe for other armies, that is true. In general I think that change of a stale meta is a very good thing. Seeing new units being used, new types of armies, are a nice thing. But for BCR the change may as well not have happened. There were some point drops, and that is it. No summoning of yetis, no casters added, and it is not like GW couldn't have based those rules changes around already existing models. Right now it feels as if BCR misses all the new cool mechanics

I wholeheartedly agree with your post @blueshirtman. It does feel like BCR got the short end of the stick.

On 8/9/2018 at 3:35 PM, IndigoGirls said:

BCR got the short end of the stick again (which stinks since they were my first AoS love)

It seems like we are expressing the same sentiment. While I still enjoy breaking out my BCR, it's an extremely frustrating army to love... they feel like a forgotten faction. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that some love comes to Destruction (as a whole) soon and that love trickles down to BCR. Until that time, when I feel like rolling some dice and not busting out a top tier list, my ogres are the perfect doods.

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Hi guys, hoping to get a bit of advice on list building.

I usually play Skaven, but fancy trying out an army that doesn't require more than a 100 models for a change. So I've picked up a couple of start collecting boxes of BCR (made a Frostlord on stoehorn and the riders on Thundertusk), some yetis, couple of Hunters, frost sabres and even 2 units of gore gruntas...but now don't really know what to do with them! Was thinking of trying out the attached lists, be interesting to know what people think.

Cheers

D2.pdf

D1.pdf

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18 hours ago, WindstormSCR said:

Faction aesthetic and the elite nature of it making it easy entry to the hobby.

I only picked up BCR with 2.0 and have been enjoying them quite a bit, and I haven't had the level of problems others seem to be having with them.

my takeaways for BCR versus the 'new hotness':

  • most other factions sources of mortal wounds are more easily denied now, making us stronger because all of ours aren't from spell sources, and there are realm artefacts that help us in this regard just as much as anyone else (give the spellmirror a try, thank me later)
  • As an elite force, if you plan your charges properly and activate units well, you will get a very significant portion of your damage out and minimize the amount of hits taken in return. 2.0's removal of shooting out of combat helps us significantly because volleys of 1-damage weapons are the biggest weakness for things like stonehorns, while mournfang handle them fairly well (and prey-hackers/ironfists are especially nice for tying up shooting-centric units because of MW bounceback)
  • Not having as many battalions isn't as much of a pinch when you generally will not have the characters to use the extra artefacts on, and the command abilities aren't spectacular to begin with, save them for battleshock on mournfangs. The battalions we do have are actually fairly good.

I've played vs summoning sylvaneth in 1500 points, nurgle or nagash at 2k, and summoning has power, but if your target priorities are good and you play the objectives, at best your opponent buys themselves a turn with a speedbump.

I do all that and had 0 success in 1st ed, and it did not change in 2ed. In fact it seems like the gap only got wider. LoN is more or less unbeatable unless they do something really stupid or the dice are loaded. Haven't play lizards since the nerf, so no idea how they work right now. Got trashed by SCE alfa strike lists, "normal" phalanx and non phalanx lists. Everything we struggled before, big bases, few models, but having many drops, being hurt chaff, being unable to deal with terrain etc is all there. Now what got added is objectives being caped by wizards, and relic bearing dudes, more magic then ever before, and I can only pray for those BCR players that play where realm rules are used, because what we got out of those is nothing comparing to what other armies get out of it.  

But am far from being the best or even good player. Who knows maybe BCR are going to dominate the tournaments this autum.

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So there is a big chance we are getting a new tome? I can't find the tome on the GW site any more.

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1 hour ago, Pitloze said:

So there is a big chance we are getting a new tome? I can't find the tome on the GW site any more.

Same with the bonesplitterz tome. I wonder if this means anything or just a coincidence. 

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Righto all - Need your help!

Nabbed a nice painted BCR army for cheap the other day, however the Stonehorn/Thundertusks are assembled as follows:

Frost lord on Thundertusk 
Huskard on Stonehorn 
Stonehorn Beast riders 

Unable to remove/re-position riders or Thundertusk/Stonehorn heads, so stuck with this set up....

Am I screwed, or are these guys usable? (if not the most 100% optimum) 

Edited by Tooooon

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39 minutes ago, Tooooon said:

Righto all - Need your help!

Nabbed a nice painted BCR army for cheap the other day, however the Stonehorn/Thundertusks are assembled as follows:

Frost lord on Thundertusk 
Huskard on Stonehorn 
Stonehorn Beast riders 

Unable to remove/re-position riders or Thundertusk/Stonehorn heads, so stuck with this set up....

Am I screwed, or are these guys usable? (if not the most 100% optimum) 

What you have is the setup for a Olwyr Alfrostun Battalion, if you have 6 mournfang there is your 2000 point list.

as to your question, they are all fine. The most optimal would probably be the oppisite of what you have but the margin isn't great.

i love the huskard on stonehorn when used in combination with a big unit (4+) of mournfang as anything able to alter the order of combat is huge imo.

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