AoS 2 - Beastclaw Raiders Discussion

[Jmason]

4 hours ago, That Guy said:

but why not just run more yhetees and frost sabres. Get there faster and actually bring the hurt? 

I agree with you’re assessment, it’s probably better to go all in on the allegiance abilities. Where I have struggled is protecting my objectives after I’ve rushed my army up the board

[heywoah_twitch]

6 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

And talking about the Eurlbad... Do the Stonehorn attacks benefits from the Eating Hand ability (+1 dmg to the Huskard's melee weapons)?

Yes. Mount attacks only aren't affected by artefacts and command traits. Battalion effects are fair game.

[Luzgurbel]

Yes, I know, but the battalion states "Add 1 to the Damage characteristic of all melee weapons used by the Eurlbad’s Huskard". The weapons of the Stonehorn are also weapons used by the Huskard?

 

Are there any answer for this from GW?

[Mutter]

28 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

The weapons of the Stonehorn are also weapons used by the Huskard?

The 'Huskard' is the whole model, so yes.

[Belakor]

Hello guys!

I'm pretty new to AoS (I'm a 9th age/8th Edition player). But I've decides to give AoS a shot. My idea was to start with Beastclaw, and I will make a Yheti based list. But I have a question. Yhetis can pile in up to 6", does it mean that I don't have to charge with them in order to attack? Do I just run and stay at 4" or 5" from an enemy unit? In this case enemy unit can not pile in before I do with my yhetis right?

Thanks!

[GutZilla]

52 minutes ago, Belakor said:

Hello guys!

I'm pretty new to AoS (I'm a 9th age/8th Edition player). But I've decides to give AoS a shot. My idea was to start with Beastclaw, and I will make a Yheti based list. But I have a question. Yhetis can pile in up to 6", does it mean that I don't have to charge with them in order to attack? Do I just run and stay at 4" or 5" from an enemy unit? In this case enemy unit can not pile in before I do with my yhetis right?

Thanks!

This is true. Yhetees will allow you to pick the initiative in battle, it’s one of their skills. You can also retreat with them out of combat into within 6 inches of a different enemy unit, and pile in, making them able to jump around between engagements. 

Speaking of yhetees, does anyone know if the yhetee box comes with square or round bases?

[That Guy]

2 hours ago, Belakor said:

Hello guys!

I'm pretty new to AoS (I'm a 9th age/8th Edition player). But I've decides to give AoS a shot. My idea was to start with Beastclaw, and I will make a Yheti based list. But I have a question. Yhetis can pile in up to 6", does it mean that I don't have to charge with them in order to attack? Do I just run and stay at 4" or 5" from an enemy unit? In this case enemy unit can not pile in before I do with my yhetis right?

Thanks!

You are absolutely right, as long as Yhetees are within 6” you are able to pile in and pile in 6”. What does this mean? It means you can always run with yhetees and maybe spend a command point to make them run 6”(that’s a 15” move to be within 6” of an enemy unit!), unless you are trying a big charge, but since you are including Yhetees, you are probably wanting to add something like a Huskard on Thundertusk. The Huskard will allow your Yhetees to be battleline options, on top of that, Yhetees have synergy with thundertusks allowing them to run and charge if they are within 16” of them! Making them even more mobile! That is, if you need to charge them. A huskard on a thundertusk also allows you to heal a beastclaw unit within 18” on the roll of a 4+ and for each other thundertusk you can add 1 to the roll to make it more likely to go off. It’s a d3 heal, you can also instead make a unit re-roll wound rolls of 1. Allowing for some added combat prowess. Adding multiple Huskards on Thundertusks, means more heals/more units to buff since they are all thundertusks it means those heals/buffs go off easier. They also have a particular nasty straight up 6 mortal wound shot at 18” range, just be careful, on the 3rd wound suffered, it drops to d6. Now back to Yhetees, they can also retreat from a unit and get within 6” again and pile in, within the same turn. They are tricksy like that. On top of that, they synergize pretty well with Frost Sabres. Have a unit of 2 frost sabres, charge an enemy unit and force them to activate on the frost sabres, than afterwards, after all your other combats are done, pile in your yhetees and attack, while not receiving any damage back that phase. I suggest units of at least 6, just so you can buff more yhetees at the same time with Huskard buffs and/or command abilities.

Edited February 22, 2019 by That Guy

[That Guy]

1 hour ago, GutZilla said:

Speaking of yhetees, does anyone know if the yhetee box comes with square or round bases?

I might buy some Yhetees next month, sorry if that’s not early enough. As of now, I can say that i bought a Loonboss on Great Cave Squig last week, and on the website it says it comes with a 40mm square base. Yet i got both a 40mm square base and a 40mm round with it(which is weird since the faq says he needs to be on 50mm, but whatever). So I think you might get both.

[Luzgurbel]

For Yethees, are the Kurnouth Hunters with swords be a good model to "count as"? I see some of them painted in white and blue, resulting in a good lookalike winter trees.

[That Guy]

24 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

For Yethees, are the Kurnouth Hunters with swords be a good model to "count as"? I see some of them painted in white and blue, resulting in a good lookalike winter trees.

Sizewise, I guess so. I would suggest being careful with proxies though, unless your opponent/game group is fine with it. This is ofc gamewise. Modelwise, i would say, why not, if you have a fun and unique way to make yhetees, go for it! Another option would be Crypt Horrors from the Flesh-Eater Courts army. Sculpting some fur on them, makes them look very yheteelike! 

EDIT: The hunters also come on 50mm round bases, which is the suggested size for yhetees also. 

Edited February 22, 2019 by That Guy

[Luzgurbel]

My fear is to buy boxes and boxes of Kurnouth Hunters, and that this year GW releases a new BCR Battletome (alone or alongside with Ogors) featuring new plastic Yethees models

Edited February 22, 2019 by Luzgurbel

[That Guy]

1 minute ago, Luzgurbel said:

My fear is to buy boxes and boxes of Kurnouth Hunters, and that this year GW releases a new BCR Battletome (alone or alongside with Ogors) featuring new plastic Yethees models

It is very likely so, maybe even more so than a gutbuster battletome. I expect both of the factions to receive a book and model revamps/new units. It’s been a long time since anything ogre came out for the core games. To even further support the likelyness of beastclaw getting an update, is looking at the most recent battletomes and the upcoming one. Which are Flesh-Eater Courts, Skaven and now Blades of khorne, all of which had have gotten battletomes before(FEC, Skaven Pestilens, Bloodbound, Blades of Khorne). It’s very likely that games workshop is updating their outdated battletomes first. Therefore I would expect Bonesplitterz, Fyreslayers, Sylvaneth, Ironjawz, Seraphon, Everchosen(with maybe slaves of darkness), Disciples of Tzeentch, Kharadron Overlords, Beastclaw Raiders and maybe Legions of Nagash and  Maggotkin, but these last 2 are in a good spot for 2nd edition so far, so i think the last real update would be kharadron. Maybe inbetween all of it we’ll get gutbusters and the slaanesh release.

[Luzgurbel]

I don't know... FEC and Skavens had a battletome, but their abilities and items were in the GHB18, something similar to Beasts of Chaos which didn't have a Battletome but their abilities and items there.

 

BCR, KO, Sylvaneth and Tzeentch have their abilities and items in their book whereas Ironjawz, Fyreslayers, Seraphon and StD don't. The same case for Free peoples and Gutbusters, the former has abilities and items the latter doesn't.

 

So, my 2 cents on guessing battletomes for this year is:

 

-Slaanesh (confirmed by GW).

-Fyreslayers (poor battletome and few models).

-Seraphon (just an update with maybe some new plastic model, as Skavens and FEC).

-StD (the same as Seraphon).

-Gutbusters/Ironjawz (the former NEEDS urgently a Battletome, the latter just needs and update of rules and mechanics).

-Free Peoples (no Battletome but items and abilities in GHB18, so they just need a book having all their range in plastic, despite of being quite old as the State Troops and shooting troops).

 

These are my thoughts on that

[Reuben Parker]

The LVO leaks showed ogres coming this year for destruction just no specific details. My hope is they continue the theme of recent books and roll them all together. I remember this was discussed a while ago some people like some don’t like that idea(not wanting to necro that discussion) but I would be down for it. The main reason is it always feels like you want allies in BCR but can be very limited. 

 

Needing 8 units for 2 allied units doesn’t work with all lists and or fielding 12 ogres means you don’t have the points for any other allies. An ogre mixed book means we could do great builds with a couple of fatties some grots, butchers and ogres whilst still getting strong allegiance abilities. 

[That Guy]

1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:

ogre mixed book

Oh, you mean... Ogre Kingdoms? Yeah that would be a great idea. 😁 Sadly they’ve set up the lore in such a way that Gutbusters are already far from the same compared to beastclaw. But I mean beasts of chaos works, gloomspite gitz works, than this could work too! Also as for the allying in stuff. I mean... they could just release more new units and kits for the faction. 

 

2 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

Free Peoples

I expect a Free People/Dispossessed book, something like: Free Guilds. Where they mix in the ironweld stuff. This would solve the need for both factions to ally in their old warmachines they formerly had acces to and solve a bunch of the armies weaknesses, they also complement each other greatly.

As for Elves, the words of “Exiles” and “Highborn” have been mentioned. Therefore i expect an Aelves book containing Highborn, Exiles and Wanderers, unless they decide to roll wanderers back with sylvaneth, but that would be admitting that the fantasy army books actually had it right all along right? 😋

Edited February 22, 2019 by That Guy

[Luzgurbel]

Maybe a book with Dispossesed, Free Peoples, Ironweld, Collegiate, Devoted of Sigmar... Humans and Dawis fighting together. And going beyond... Adding the Aelfs, giving a huge Mixed Order Battletome?

[That Guy]

Okay in another post I got inspired to use a Doppelganger cloak on a Frostlord on Stonehorn and it gave me an idea for a list. Now I do know I will be using some more of the unpopular choices, like using a battalion, battline mammoths and even the Huskard on Stonehorn, but just because they are not as popular, doesn't mean there can't be other ways to play the Beastclaw and I would like to make that clear with the following list:

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders
Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master
- Artefact: Doppelganger Cloak
Huskard on Stonehorn (340)
- Artefact: Pelt of Charngar
- Vulture
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battlelines
Stonehorn Beastriders (320)
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)

Battalions
Eurlbad (170)

Endless Spells
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 2000/ 2000
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 89

So obviously this is a very melee based list, with not a lot of  the popular picks in the army, except for our star player the Frostlord on Stonehorn, but that doesn't mean we can't make it work! The idea is here to cheat the attack order of the game, using a combo with the Doppelganger Cloak and the Huskard on Stonehorn Line-Breakers ability. First of all the Eurlbad battalion allows us to add a bit of punch to our Mournfang Packs and the Huskard on Stonehorn, making him actually good in combat by adding +1 to the damage of all the Huskards attacks, this includes his Stonehorn since the Eating Hand ability is not a warlord trait or an artefact. On top of that wound rolls of 6 cause mortals in addition to normal damage for all the Eurlbad units, which are the Huskard and Mournfang Packs. This applies to both riders and mounts as well. The battalion also allows us to start with an additional command point and grants us an extra artefact. By including the Fungoid Cave-Shaman we should get about 2-3 extra CP in the game, which we can use to run our stonehorns with for 6".  By centering the Frostlord we can use his Bellowing Voice ability to re-roll charge rolls for our BCR units creating a pretty mobile force with a bunch of run and charges at maximum run speed and re-roll charges. The Mournfang Packs themselves already can charge 3D6 and pick the highest 2, so they can make very far charges work for them, with the bellowing voice re-rolling this, even more likely. We add the Quicksilver Swords to deal with some horde units. 

Now for the item/weapon options and traits. As always we take the Everwinter's Master trait, to have better control over the everwinter. The Doppelganger Cloak makes our Frostlord on Stonehorn untargetable in the combat phase as long as he didn't attack yet. The Pelt of Charngar, i'm not sure about, but it adds some sustain to the Huskard on Stonehorn, tell me if there's any better artefacts for him, but keep in mind  we are taking Ulgu for the Doppelganger Cloak. We take the vulture for the Huskard, since it's the most reliable ranged attack, but again I'm curious what you guys think about taking the chaintrap instead. For the Mournfang Pack we take the gargant hackers, since they are the most reliable weapon they have and better reach for bigger packs, but once again... let me know what you think of taking clubs instead, especially in this battalion, it could possibly mean more mortal wounds that you can deal.

Now the main idea is ofc to charge your entire force headfirst in the opponent and deal a bunch of mortals straight up and let the carnage start. Activate the Huskard on Stonehorn first and deal your damage. After that pick a Mournfang unit within 10" of the Huskard and attack immidiately. After that let your opponent activate a unit. He/she can't target your frostlord, so it will be on the other Mournfang Unit or the Stonehorn Beastriders, probably. Take the hit and activate the other unit that wasn't attack. After that let him swing again and activate your last leftover unit besides the frostlord. Than last but not least attack your probably full wound Frostlord. Rinse and repeat. Let me know what you think! 

EDIT: Doppelganger Cloak is now a once per game artefact, so the whole tactic doesn’t work, sadly. Decided to go with Chamon with Rune Blade for the frost lord, making his frost spear a -3 rend weapon and Argent Armour for the Huskard, giving him a -1 to hit debuff for the opponent.

Edited February 25, 2019 by That Guy

[Belakor]

Guys, what are the pros and cons of Huskard on Thundertusk vs Battleline Thundertusk? 

[Luzgurbel]

Pros of the Battleline TTusk: Battleline, a bit cheaper.

 

Pros of the Huskard: Character, so he can use command abilities; only few points more expensive so it's really afordable; some kind of prays; he can be given an artifact.

 

[Baron Wastelands]

On 2/21/2019 at 4:09 AM, heywoah_twitch said:

Torrbad does nothing that you want. It requires you to take the worst type of thundertusks (no heal and no decent weapon+better save). It stops people from retreating away from a unit that no one would ever want to retreat from.

Torrbad comes in for a bit of a bashing! While all the BCR battalions are expensive and a bit restrictive, I agree, I have nonetheless had quite a bit of fun with Torrbad. Really, the key ability here is that yhetees can pin units in place until they are wiped out. In an army that struggles with any kind of board control, that’s great, and also I think unique?

So it’s not just that yhetees can hold things in place while thundertusks shoot them (though against melee army that’s great fun), it’s that you can also prevent objective grabs with key units, and given the yhetees other abilities, you can often do this for a turn or two at least, and choose where and when.

Also because of the changes to shooting in AoS 2, they can help with the main enemy of the Torrbad list - ranged units. No longer can they retreat from combat and plink your ttusks as they want to.

The main drawback is that in a 2k list you can only fit 3 msu yhetees, so you are very light on bodies. But although there are advantages to keeping the ttusks together (+3 to healing prayer, usually +2 to melee mortal wounds chance) you don’t have to - 2 sets of 2 is sometimes better, and still get to utilise buffs, as well as crossfire 😊

 

Edited February 23, 2019 by Baron Wastelands

[heywoah_twitch]

2 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

In an army that struggles with any kind of board control, that’s great, and also I think unique?

Notably it's the often forgotten about other-other-other ability gnarlroot wargrove has in sylvaneth. 'Can't Retreat' generally has no affect on most games, but when it is a problem it can win games if your opponent forgot while planning in earlier turns. It's strong in sylv since they're so tanky as an army, not so much for 3 yhetees, but it isn't nothing. I just think 4 huskards each with a heal plus 3 more yetis for the same price is better is all. Or 3 huskards and 21 yetis!

14 hours ago, That Guy said:

Let me know what you think!

For playing with the models you own, I like your style, and I have some thoughts:

I played mainly eurlbad in the dark times (after the huge nerfs but before 2nd edition realm artefacts made bcr kindof playable). While the mortal wounds are painfully infrequent (~1-in-12 attacks proc 1 mw. in other words ~1mw per 2 mournfang in combat, or 1mw from a stonehorn), the one thing I'll say about a Eurlbad is that the Huskard is a beast with +1 damage on all those mount attacks. He parses similar to a frostlord! 

Doppleganger cloak has been FAQ'd to only work 1/game and so it's not worth taking anymore, sadly. The pelt is just okay. 4/6ths of the outcomes heal him just one wound (1-3 is one, and then 4+ d3 rolling a 1). Some suggestions for alternative combos of 2 artefacts:

• Ulgu: miasmatic on frostlord, betrayer's crown on huskard (for hordebreaker, or spellmirror if you hate wizards more than massive regiments)
• Chamon: rune blade on frostlord, argent armour on huskard
• Aqshy: ignax on frostlord, thermalrider on huskard

Newly updated fungoid I don't think is worth taking tbh, and I find quicksilver swords to be underwhelming. You're essentially paying 110 points to straight-roll unbind once he runs into range after turn 1 with no bonuses, and sometimes try for a realm spell. Not the worst, but I'd recommend 2 frost sabers and being 1930 for a command point and a triumph. I really want to stress how huge the triumph is for our army that doesn't have any real buffs. Re-rolling failed hits on a critical frostlord turn is a big deal. rring saves is excellent, and though wounds are the worst result to get, at least it helps fish for eurlbad mortals.

As for tactics, I rarely use bellowing voice. The default charge re-rolling command ability is almost always superior since you get to see a result first before deciding to spend the command point - often saving it. BV has you spend it preemptively in the hero phase, something you generally only want to do when 3 units in range are charging at once - which I find rare, but maybe your opponents deploy right up against the line. Mine usually line up at back board edge and then start teleporting everywhere and making wyldwoods or summon a door to hand of dust a frostlord.

Edited February 23, 2019 by heywoah_twitch

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

• Ulgu: miasmatic on frostlord, betrayer's crown on huskard (for hordebreaker, or spellmirror if you hate wizards more than massive regiments)
• Chamon: rune blade on frostlord, argent armour on huskard
• Aqshy: ignax on frostlord, thermalrider on huskard

Liking your Chamon for the aggressive approach and Aqshy for utility/defensive.

Not a fan of once per game artefacts, so I would run spell mirror. Only situational vs magic heavy armies though.

Sad about the doppelganger cloak, thought we had some breakthrough here, but meh.

I think my favorite one is the Chamon set up. Just pushing that frostlord spear to -3 rend, is absolutely devastating, but the -1 to hit will definetely help the huskard to ward off some hits against him. Who would you activate first though? The Huskard or the Frostlord? That's my dilemma here. The Huskard would take the most out of the +1 damage and than activating the mournfang unit straight after, but will also have the -1 to hit artefact, which he could use to tank a hit. As for the Frostlord, he has the 3+ save, able to save better than the Huskard, but has the offensive artefact.

Edited February 23, 2019 by That Guy

[That Guy]

5 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

Newly updated fungoid I don't think is worth taking tbh, and I find quicksilver swords to be underwhelming.

Also... I am kind of surprised here. While I agree that just 1 standard unbind/dispell won't truelly cut it. The Fungoid Cave-Shaman already makes back his points by just granting you 2~3 CP a game. Which on 3 stonehorns can mean some very easy charges on a 6" run or re-roll charges. Especially with the Beasts of Chaos lists around now and the Blades of Khorne being good and now coming in with a new battletome, also the Maggotkin being around a bunch, I think the Blades are especially okay proccing on 5's instead of 6's. 

[That Guy]

On 2/23/2019 at 3:08 PM, heywoah_twitch said:

BV has you spend it preemptively in the hero phase, something you generally only want to do when 3 units in range are charging at once

Right, since 2nd edition dropped Forward to Victory is indeed a much more reliable option, but does count for 1 unit only. BV can indeed affect multiple units, but you have to activate it in the hero phase, resulting in a possible waste of your command point. Here’s hoping that the BCR update will bring BV to the charge phase after charges. That way BV will always be the better choice when charging, although perhaps they want to keep it a pre-charge ability, so that you have the option to either spend a command point with the chance of re-rolling multiple failed charges, but also the risk of wasting a point or to pick Forward to Victory for a more reliable charge, without wasting your CP possibly for no reason. In my opinion they may make BV an after charges ability, since they will probably want to change the ability to wholly within 14” instead of within, which would mean that you need to have your forces close to the frostlord, while with Forward to Victory you can pick a unit within 12” or within 6” of another hero. On top of that, I think that hero command abilities should be special and more interesting than the generic command abilities , because they are more than often partially or wholly the reason you include that hero in the first place. Just like with arcane bolt and mystic shield nerfs, make the specific warscroll command abilities a bit more interesting.

Edited February 24, 2019 by That Guy

[Reuben Parker]

The new 2k list ready for paint and testing. 

Guys with more experience what’s the best second relic to run on the second FL with ethereal amulet on the first?

Pelt, skull and tokens all seem ok but each have pretty big issues as well. I’m leaning more towards the skull to give him a great save vs chaff attacks whilst the skeleton rule can help vs bigger attacks.