AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

[Skabnoze]

I was browsing the base size document, because I was going to go for another big fancy resin base purchase spree and I noticed that the Maniak Weirdnob is listed as "75 x 42mm".  Was this how people were previously basing him?  I find it a bit odd that all other Bonesplitter characters are on the same size base as equivalent infantry models.  It does not bother me at all - I just find it odd.

[amysrevenge]

I was just handling mine last night doing some rebasing, and it is a pretty big model (feels especially big in metal, as mine is).  And it has a high center of gravity.  On a normal cav base I'd be really worried about tipping over.

[Coganaut]

1 hour ago, svnvaldez said:

FAQs dropped today, I can stack the Big Boss CA correct?

Based on the FAQ, yea. It does limit the Wurrgog Prophet  CA though 

[Skabnoze]

4 minutes ago, amysrevenge said:

I was just handling mine last night doing some rebasing, and it is a pretty big model (feels especially big in metal, as mine is).  And it has a high center of gravity.  On a normal cav base I'd be really worried about tipping over.

Yeah, I have some bases to rebase my Bonesplitterz onto (I like premade resin bases for most occasions) and I was thinking the same thing.  My Weirdnob is also the metal one and a standard 60mm cavalry base does seem a bit small for his balance.  

[amysrevenge]

Not to go too far afield, but I have a few press-mold options for basing (I use air-dry clay).  I did hurry-up plain gravel bases on my Bonesplitters 18 months ago, and am now taking the opportunity to do nice bases for them.

[Blightlord]

Question about the Greenskinz Orruk Warboss Waaagh! command ability. Does it work for attacks that are made in the Hero phase, from say the Prophet's ability or the Drakkfoot warclan spell? Waaagh! does say "when they attack in your next combat phase" but then the spell and the Prophet's CA says "as if it were the "combat phase". 

[PlasticCraic]

So no update for the Mystic Waaagh! Paint artefact, meaning it now actively nerfs your casting range.  Because it's only Destruction.

I'm finding it really hard not to feel insulted, when they did update Magical Supremacy for Tzeentch.

[CharnelChimera]

4 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

So no update for the Mystic Waaagh! Paint artefact, meaning it now actively nerfs your casting range.  Because it's only Destruction.

I'm finding it really hard not to feel insulted, when they did update Magical Supremacy for Tzeentch.

With how insulting the Bonesplitterz preview was and how  GW seems to knee- quick, sharp, sudden movement hate on anything remotely competitive that isn't one of the armies they want to push, I don't see this trend changing any time soon. Bonesplitterz (and Destruction, really) just seem to be forgotten about in general.

Edited June 28, 2018 by CharnelChimera
Apparently, the harmless word for a quick, sharp, sudden movement or someone who is being mean is censored. Hm.

[bonzai]

6 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

So no update for the Mystic Waaagh! Paint artefact, meaning it now actively nerfs your casting range.  Because it's only Destruction.

I'm finding it really hard not to feel insulted, when they did update Magical Supremacy for Tzeentch.

Yeah, missed opportunity there. Mystic Waaagh paint unbinding range, the unit requirements for Mad with the Power of the Waaagh on savage orruks, and even our path to glory chart could have been fixed. Very disappointing.

[Kanamorf]

23 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

So no update for the Mystic Waaagh! Paint artefact, meaning it now actively nerfs your casting range.  Because it's only Destruction.

I'm finding it really hard not to feel insulted, when they did update Magical Supremacy for Tzeentch.

I spoke to Ben Johnson directly about this yesterday to ask if it was an oversight. I was told it was and it would be in the 2 week after release FAQ

[PlasticCraic]

@Kanamorf great job!  

[AlmGandix3]

The new point values and stats for forgeworld models is out. I like the changes so far

[Malakithe]

10 minutes ago, AlmGandix3 said:

The new point values and stats for forgeworld models is out. I like the changes so far

where did you see them?

[AlmGandix3]

3 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

where did you see them?

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-PL/Downloads 

You can find the new ones here

[Izikail]

I saw very few changes but the odd increas such as gober squig going to 160 from 140

[AlmGandix3]

After comparing the rogue idol and troggoth hag changes directly compared to the old ones I'm really not fond of the changes. Troggoth hag only got nerfs and went up 20 pts to 380 and the rogue idol got some changes that bring more consistency ( no more 2d6 move and attacks) but besides that only nerfs for the same point cost -.-

[Izikail]

3 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

After comparing the rogue idol and troggoth hag changes directly compared to the old ones I'm really not fond of the changes. Troggoth hag only got nerfs and went up 20 pts to 380 and the rogue idol got some changes that bring more consistency ( no more 2d6 move and attacks) but besides that only nerfs for the same point cost -.-

Rogue idke dose no longer hit your bravery on death if i remember what i read

[gnaleinad]

On 6/28/2018 at 1:18 PM, Blightlord said:

Question about the Greenskinz Orruk Warboss Waaagh! command ability. Does it work for attacks that are made in the Hero phase, from say the Prophet's ability or the Drakkfoot warclan spell? Waaagh! does say "when they attack in your next combat phase" but then the spell and the Prophet's CA says "as if it were the "combat phase". 

Hmm, based on the new FAQ and rules, an ability that is meant for another phase can't be brought into hero phase.

The attacks will be made in the hero phase so none.

The explanation for the Daughter of Khaine shooting also states that.

[bonzai]

6 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

After comparing the rogue idol and troggoth hag changes directly compared to the old ones I'm really not fond of the changes. Troggoth hag only got nerfs and went up 20 pts to 380 and the rogue idol got some changes that bring more consistency ( no more 2d6 move and attacks) but besides that only nerfs for the same point cost -.-

Rogue idol straight up got buffed! No more random movements. No more debuffing leadership when it dies ( so in large games I can use both of mine, one for Gork, and one for Mork). It can retreat now if it wants, and no more random stomping feet. Best of all, still 400 points and an ally faction.

On a sad note, they took out the summoning on the monsters so I can no longer take the incarnates. 

Edited June 29, 2018 by bonzai

[Kanamorf]

I played 3 more games this weekend with the Bonesplitterz

Game 1

Daughters of Khane (1000pts)

Prophet (General), Squiggly Curse (140)
Wardokk (Mask), Hand of Gork (100)
10 Maniacs (280)
10 Boars (200)
10 Archers (140)
2 Big Stabbas (100)
(960)

Cauldron of Blood
Medusa
Hag Qeen
20 Witch Elves (Shields)
10 Witch Elves
5 Kanaeri
Endless Spell (Swords)

We played Relocation Orb, and while it looks like a scary scenario when you 1st look at it, it turned out to be great fun. We failed at reading and set up our forces in the wrong place, but thats why you play practice games.

The game turned out to be me chasing the objective around the board as it kept moving to places where the DoK were already, however high numbers of attacks with no rend do well when your opponent has little or no armour, so my forces prevailed and I won quite convincingly.
I love the mechanic in this game where you score 1 point if you went first but 3 if you go second in a turn. It really makes you think about the turn order.

Game 2

Tzeench (2000pts)

Prophet (General), Squiggly Curse (140)
Orruk Warboss, Boar, War banner (140)
Maniak Wierdnob, Brutal Beast Spirits (120)
Wardokk (Mask), Bone Krusha (100)
Wardokk, Hand of Gork (100)
10 Maniacs (280)
10 Maniacs (280)
5   Boars (100)
20 Archers (280)
8 Big Stabbas (400)
(1940) (Extra CP)

Lord of Change
Ogroid Shaman
Gaunt Summoner
Shaman on Disk
10 Pink
10 Pink
3 Enlightened
40 Arcenites
Pendulum (Endless Spell)
Burning Head (Endless Spell)
Spell Portal (Endless Spell)
Gemenids (Endless Spell)

We played Total Commitment, again another nice little tweek to the scenario where units are not allowed to be deployed off the board. This is going to make some people have to think about army choice for a tournament. Is this one going to be there and how does my army play when I can not just turn up anywhere?

I have traditionally done ok against Tzeench as the mortal spam is not as bad as some armies, I get a save against every wound and I have a lot of wounds to soak it up. 
Over the game the endless spells did more damage to the Tzeench army than they did to me, I suspect that is more to do with not having used them before rather than them being bad, but I was happy when I moved the 2 Gemenids over a unit of 6 Pinks and killed them all.
Summoning is gong to be very strong, in killing the 20 pinks and the 10 he got back with battleshock using desitny dice to make it a 1 he had 60 blue horror points. The counter to this is to preasure his heroes. I was in his face all game so when new units were being placed they were almost on his back line or in some place where they were of less use. We discusses afterwards and he needs to be more agressive with his heroes and get them up the board a bit.

New personal record for me in this game, I dropped the Warboss' Waargh on the turn the 8 big stabbas charges the LoC. he failed 10 armour saves for a total of  49 wounds.

I won this game as Tzeench never really got out of his own deployment zone, I have played Matt a couple of times in the past and he has done well killing from the back line and then moving up. The combination of scenario and new rules made this much harder for him.

Game 3

Beasclaw Raiders (1000pts)

Prophet (General), Squiggly Curse (140)
Wardokk (Mask), Hand of Gork (100)
10 Maniacs (280)
10 Boars (200)
10 Archers (140)
2 Big Stabbas (100)
(960)

Huskard on Stonehorn
Hunter
12 Sabre cats
6 Sabre cats
(Batallion of some sort)

We played 3 places of arcane power. In this scenario again there was a subtle but important change to the objective capture rules that will make army choice for a tournament interesting. Only wizards or heros with an artifact can capture the objectives. For us it made no difference, I had 2 wizards, he had 2 artifacts.

His battalion allowed him to set up the cats and hunter off the field so I was left facing just the stonehorn at the start of the game. He took first turn and brought the cats in while dropping the hunter on one of the objectives. The only mistake he made all game was to drop on the wrong side of me into the ordinary boars who were there just to absorb the charge. This left me free to retreat and charge the the cats every turn and slowly whittle them down.

Pete was up for the first couple of turns with hard to shift characters on both, I managed to kill the stonehorn over 3 turns with magic, shooting and Big Stabbas.

So I won 3 games on #newaos day and am fairly happy with where Bonesplitterz are in this edition. I have yet to face some of my traditional tough armies but with the changes to mystic shield this list of enemies got a little smaller. 

I loved all of the new scenarios, they are more than the slight tweeks we had between ghb16 and ghb17 and will add some real thought points when you  are writing a list for tournaments.

I do wonder about Batallions, are they worth the points now? Lower drops, extra artifact, more command points, and more scoring heroes in some scenarios. For the Bonesplitterz I am not yet convinced. I keep playing with lists to make the Teef Rukk fit but I am never quite happy with how the army looks on paper. Snagga rukk might be an option as I take most of the required units anyway but 170 points is a lot to spend.

I know the Kunnin Rukk fans will just take it as its what makes their army good, but outside that I struggle to see the value for us.

[Skabnoze]

I think the Kopp Rukk is better now than it was simply due to the extra addition of endless spells, realm spells, etc.  In the past I liked that formation mainly because it has a buff for Morboyz as I am not overly fond of spamming too many Wardoks.  But now that you can do a lot more with magic than previously I am much more interested in all of the battalion benefits.  I will probably be exploring using the Kopp Rukk - and probably the Drakkfoot battalion as well since it gives access to a very strong spell for melee forces.

Interestingly, from what I can tell the drakkfoot spell will stack with the Wurrgog's command ability.  They specifically changed the Wurrgog's command ability so that you cannot trigger it more than once on a unit but they did not alter that spell.  I am curious if they simply forgot that exists or they purposefully allowed it.  I'm not sure how often I would want to stack those on a single unit as opposed to using them on different units but I am sure it would come in handy at some point.

[Towenaar]

Yeah I think Kunnin Rukk will drop off this edition. Big units of Arrowboys are going to be so easy to shut down with small, fast units doing so essentially locks down 420 points of shooting power for a full turn.

What are people thinking about their mortal realm choice? I really like Ghur, Realm of Beasts fits the theme of bonesplitterz nicely, and the Gryph-Feather Charm artifact is going to be great on a Wurrgog Prophet, -2 to hit in shooting with lookout sir and -2 to hit in combat. Make him your general and give him Squirmy war Paint to ignore 50% of mortal wounds, going to be a real hard target. The Rockjaws weapon looks like a good source of mortal wounds at close range also.

I agree with Skabnoze I think Kopp Rukk/Drakkfoot Battalion is the way to go for 2k, heres the list I'm thinking of running:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- General
- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Hand of Gork or Mork
Wardokk (100)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Squiggly Curse
Wardokk (100)
- Artefact: Rockjaws
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Wardokk (100)
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
30 x Savage Orruk Morboys (300)
30 x Savage Orruk Morboys (300)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (140)
Aleguzzler Gargant (160)
- Allies
Kop Rukk (200)
Drakkfoot Warclan (140)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 170 / 400
Wounds: 203
 

Might drop the Arrowboys for an allied Orruk Warboss with Waaagh! Banner, the +1 attacks with both weapons for the Morboys looks brutal, just think I might be low on Orruks in numbers

Edited July 2, 2018 by Towenaar

[Skabnoze]

I don't know if I would say that the Kopp Rukk is the most competitive choice and will be the go-to.  I have not really dug that deep into the new changes so far.  I ordered my stuff online and I got cheap and paid for "whenever the hell it gets here" speed of shipping - so I won't get my stuff until later this week.

It might be a competitive choice, but it is simply the formation that looks the most interesting to me.  What I have traditionally always liked about Savage Orcs over the years was the idea of a bunch of frenzied lunatics led by some crazy shaman.  All other orcs have traditionally been led by Warbosses, but Savage Orcs have always been led mainly by shaman in what limited fluff they had throughout the years.  I really enjoy that Bonesplitterz kept this theme and built on it even more.  So a gaggle of ju-ju dancing shaman flinging spells around and driving masses of boyz into an even further frenzy just fits with what I like about the faction.  It also looks like it has a fair bit of synergy with Drakkfoot for building around Morboyz with access to a couple of ways to trigger extra combats with your units each turn.

I would also like it if at some point GW managed to incentivize the use of the standard Savage Orc - but I expect that we will have to wait until whenever there is a new battletome for that to happen.  It just does not seem to be in the cards with the current Savage Orc warscroll.  At this point I feel the issue is with the Savage Orc warscroll itself. 

[PlasticCraic]

2 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I would also like it if at some point GW managed to incentivize the use of the standard Savage Orc - but I expect that we will have to wait until whenever there is a new battletome for that to happen.  It just does not seem to be in the cards with the current Savage Orc warscroll.  At this point I feel the issue is with the Savage Orc warscroll itself. 

Absolutely!  1 attack, 4+4+, no rend damage 1 is real bottom-feeder stuff.

At 100 points under GH1 they were already hot garbage.  Their stats are so bad that they are completely irredeemable.

The only reason I can see for them being 120 points is that GW does not want Mixed Destruction to have good Battleline options.

[PlasticCraic]

2 hours ago, Towenaar said:

Yeah I think Kunnin Rukk will drop off this edition. Big units of Arrowboys are going to be so easy to shut down with small, fast units doing so essentially locks down 420 points of shooting power for a full turn.

*for a full phase ?

Remember you can shoot off whatever is tagging you in the Hero Phase with Kunnin Rukk, then go about your business.  You'd still rather be choosing your targets, but it doesn't totally shut you down - and a lot of the time you will be able to engineer it so that they can only tag one unit, and you then just buff up the other.

I think KR is still viable.  In some ways it got even better: access to free summoning (albeit very dicey), and inbuilt Command Points that you can use to multi pop the Savage Big Boss Command Ability / keep your Boyz on the table reactively.  You could easily be generating 3 or 4 extra attacks per 5+ hit roll in a key early turn, at which point you can safely split your attacks.

One of the few advantages we have over the newer books is that we can go One-drop, and this leverages that.  Over a 5 game tournament you could expect to get about 3 big blocks back, which is obviously huge in those games where it happens.  Only getting units back on a 6+ sounds useless but to put it in context, Bonegrinz was already worthwhile BEFORE it gave you access to summoning.  KR + BG combined have only gone up 10 points, and now give you 2 Command Points and the chance of free units.

I have drafted up the following.  Whether it will see the table is another thing (I want to have fun with the Rogue Idol and Drakkfoot), but I definitely don't think the Kunnin Rukk is dead!

Disclaimer: I'm not really across the Realm stuff yet, that could obviously help further.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz

Leaders
Savage Big Boss (120)
- General
- Stonecleava
- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint 
- Artefact: Savage Trophy 
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Hand of Gork or Mork
Wardokk (100)
- Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint 
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk (100)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask 
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Bone Krusha

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (420)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (420)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (280)
10 x Savage Orruks (120)

Battalions
Kunnin' Rukk (200)
Bonegrinz Warclan (110)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 202