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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

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Posted (edited)

Got a game in with new rules. Bit of a funny pointage at 1600 but a game's a game!

Ran my non clan bonesplitters and got utterly creamed by Hedonites, but pulled off a sneaky, incredibly lucky win by yeeting a group of boyz 21 inches into a back point with a double roll breath of gorkamorka + CP max run.

Wasn't very clever with my 6 stack of big stabbas, who promptly got locusd' and beat up on in their alpha strike charge. They still managed to get a a Keeper of Secrets down to 2 HP even with just the two of them surviving to attack, it was nuts. Using a spearhead blob of em, or just having a min count Teef Rukk attacking over your battleline is so good. That 3 inch range + all their potential buffs is so useful.

I also ran two 20 stacks of morboyz, they're somewhat robust, but really need the big boss or MWN buffing em if they want to chew into a rival blob. Stick em near a monster though and hooo man. Having automatic access to the mortals on 6's to wounds is great. Having the big stabbas nail a monster early and give morboy blobs +1 to hit while they're still at numbers is imperative to their success I think.

And finally, the Wurrgog. +2 to cast from trait and mork's boney bitz, then the additional +1 from a wardokk, then another situational one for arcane had him nailing every single one of his casts. It's quite achievable to get him to reliably 10+ with fist of gork, which as we know is an awesome horde sweeper.

In a couple of days I'm gonna play a game with this identical list, but as Da Big Waaagh. I don't see it working particularly well at this lower pointage with bonesplitterz, but I think I can generate a respectable amount of points with my 3 casters and the two blobs. It'll be rough forgoing 6+ fnp buuut the universal bonuses to hit might just be worth it.

Edited by soak314
Typos!
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So, while Breath of Gorkamorka, Brutal Beast Spirits, and Kunnin Beast Spirits are all quite powerful, I'm wondering if it's worth taking Gorkamorka's Warcry on a wizard. Forcing something to fight last is quite powerful, especially if we cannonball all our dudes into the target. Cast on a 7 is pretty bad, though there's a Trait and Artifact to boost it (plus Rogue Idol as well).

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1 hour ago, Requizen said:

So, while Breath of Gorkamorka, Brutal Beast Spirits, and Kunnin Beast Spirits are all quite powerful, I'm wondering if it's worth taking Gorkamorka's Warcry on a wizard. Forcing something to fight last is quite powerful, especially if we cannonball all our dudes into the target. Cast on a 7 is pretty bad, though there's a Trait and Artifact to boost it (plus Rogue Idol as well).

I tried the warcry spell yesterday in my game against slaanesh.  Slammed the spell onto a keeper, we now fight on even ground or better for me.

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What's the point of the Kop Rukk now? The spell can't be cast twice, right? It's either the Wardokk or a Wurrgog, once per round. Weird. 

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So had a last run with the old Bonesplitterz today! went 2-1 (loss against Fyreslayer, win agains Gloomspite, win against Idoneth). I should actually have win against fyreslayer. I happen to had forgotten my 3 river troll at home, and played the 1st game without it, and game was super close until the end. Oh well happen when you get up at 6:30 in the morning. 

Now time for the neo Bonesplitter, ****** there is some really good stuff in that book! I didn't notice Wurrgog Mask was not limited to once per game now. On the other hand squiggly curse is really crappy with it's 3'' range...

Also didn't notice the 80pts for wardock, such a bargain.

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1 hour ago, Halchuuu said:

What's the point of the Kop Rukk now? The spell can't be cast twice, right? It's either the Wardokk or a Wurrgog, once per round. Weird. 

In case you either didn't take the Wurrog, or if you wanted the Wurrog to cast something else.

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Posted (edited)

One more game in, 1600 again (its a local meta thing).
Ran Da Big Waaagh with a tweaked list to last time, and managed to get to 20 points by the end of my turn 2. Went to  a draw vs a troggherd, but we only played til turn 2 and I was likely to table him if it went on. He utterly wrecked my boarboyz, but my morboyz were relatively pristine, and fully buffed, while he was on his last 5 troggs.

Waaagh pts Breakdown after spoilers:
 

Spoiler

 

Turn 1: total = 12
Wurrgog, 2x Wardokk = 3
d6 = 4

Ere we go = 5

Turn 2: total = 21

Wurrgog, 2x Wardokk = 3
d6 = 1
Ere We Go = 2
Charges = 2
Heroes in combat = 1

Turn 3: Total = 24/2 (Waaagh) = 12
Wurrgog, 2x Wardokk = 3
d6 = 2
Charges = 2
 

 




Was a lot more conservative with alpha striking this time, and my teef rukk managed to take out a troggoth hag in turn two's combat phase. From that point, all ~20 of my morboyz were hitting on 2+/2+.

For an example of how this performs, I made a ten inch charge into a troggboss that only got 6 of 16 morboyz into base contact for 24 attack rolls. I did a Big Waaagh and got 6 more attacks, which made the trog take 22 saves, which it did not survive.

The Wurrgogg is a beast of a caster. His artefact and command trait choices are a genuinely difficult decision. As we know Morks boney bitz + master of the weird gives him extremely reliable casting (I halved a 40 blob of grots in one cast with him in that game), but he isn't particularly tough, so Glowin' Tatooz might be a very good relic take if you're in a skaven/casting/shooting heavy meta (which you probably will be as soon as people dust off their CoS models.)

***

From these two games I'm having a really hard time choosing what I'd run for a tryhard event. Pure bonesplitterz Da Big Waaagh + possibly one of the clans seems like a really strong pick, but the free 5-8" move and the monster hunting passives can really help you out too.  

Edited by soak314

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Posted (edited)

I am both delighted and frustrated by our warclans; they seem really well balanced against each other.

Bonegrinz ability to pull enemy units out of formation/buff range/ off objectives is solid. We might even see an opponent spend a CP to re-roll and fail a charge.

They don't have to go for the nearest of our units  though, so we need to be aware of our positioning, too.

 

Forgot that they also force enemy units to stay and fight. Stop enemies from buffering off like gits to poke our Shaman, or take objectives.

Possibly we fall back in our turn and then force the prey to charge again (our out of the taunting range) in their turn.

Exploding 6s on hits is good. We rely on weight of attacks over quality. 

The bravery debuff is minor but useful.

Not keen on the Artefact but it does let you give that Artefact 'slot' to a Wizard to buff their casting or up their protection.

 

Icebone's freezing strike...I will need to play a few games to see how effective it actually is. I know we need Rend but my ability not to roll sixes is impressive.  That said, against heavily armoured foes (we have many Cities players in our group) it could be a GGGsend.

Freeze and Run...seems situational and only works for two of our units (if Weirdnobs had Boarboys it would be a useful escape mechanic.)

The command trait is okay for the movement buff, but not huge.

Lastly, I think that given our tweak to Bravery the Artefact is a good pick.

Drakkfoot's counter-negation of wounds could be very strong or wasted depending on who you fight.  Given our lack of Rend it is super frustrating to have an enemy then make a SAS roll...so...seems solid.

Not sure about the CA. It might be a worse roll to dispel than your potentially buffed shaman are getting...but if you pitch up against an enemy who is throwing out a lot of spells, the ability to counter a critical spell might be handy. The temptation to burn through CPs is real, but of you have Wurrgog generating CP each turn that's offset a little  maybe?

Fireball is a good trade for Arcane Bolt. Combined with Fist of Gork there is potential to whittle down opposing hordes, and ranged mortals is a small mitigation of our lack of Rend.

I like Burning Tattooz. Got briefly excited about Burning Glowing Tattoos...then realised you couldn't do that.

 

Edited by Souleater

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Posted (edited)

How would this be for a 2000pt Big Rukk list?

Edit: Quality got downgraded a lot mb.

Screenshot_20191006-090223_WH AoS.jpg

Edited by Incredebilis

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Hi all, I'm a predominantly Beastclaw/Ogor/Gloomspite player and generally play Mixed Destruction due to the sad state of BCR but picked up the new Warclan book to try and expand my collection into Orruks. Reading through, Icebone seems like a really good fit thematically for my existing models but with the lack of Start Collecting box I'm a bit lost as to where to start or what to build towards.

I'd like some blocks of Savage Orruks to use as battleline in Mixed but was wondering if someone could suggest a reasonable Icebone list? My group is quite competitive and my opponents are generally Nighthaunt, Nurgle, Idoneth & Seraphon if that helps.

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2 hours ago, HostilSpike said:

Hi all, I'm a predominantly Beastclaw/Ogor/Gloomspite player and generally play Mixed Destruction due to the sad state of BCR but picked up the new Warclan book to try and expand my collection into Orruks. Reading through, Icebone seems like a really good fit thematically for my existing models but with the lack of Start Collecting box I'm a bit lost as to where to start or what to build towards.

I'd like some blocks of Savage Orruks to use as battleline in Mixed but was wondering if someone could suggest a reasonable Icebone list? My group is quite competitive and my opponents are generally Nighthaunt, Nurgle, Idoneth & Seraphon if that helps.

I think you can't go wrong with some big blocks of orruks and a few casters. A few boxes of the orruks and some extra bitz, you can easily make some converted wzards or big bosses.

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16 hours ago, Souleater said:

I am both delighted and frustrated by our warclans; they seem really well balanced against each other.

Bonegrinz ability to pull enemy units out of formation/buff range/ off objectives is solid. We might even see an opponent spend a CP to re-roll and fail a charge.

They don't have to go for the nearest of our units  though, so we need to be aware of our positioning, too.

 

Forgot that they also force enemy units to stay and fight. Stop enemies from buffering off like gits to poke our Shaman, or take objectives.

Possibly we fall back in our turn and then force the prey to charge again (our out of the taunting range) in their turn.

Exploding 6s on hits is good. We rely on weight of attacks over quality. 

The bravery debuff is minor but useful.

Not keen on the Artefact but it does let you give that Artefact 'slot' to a Wizard to buff their casting or up their protection.

 

Icebone's freezing strike...I will need to play a few games to see how effective it actually is. I know we need Rend but my ability not to roll sixes is impressive.  That said, against heavily armoured foes (we have many Cities players in our group) it could be a GGGsend.

Freeze and Run...seems situational and only works for two of our units (if Weirdnobs had Boarboys it would be a useful escape mechanic.)

The command trait is okay for the movement buff, but not huge.

Lastly, I think that given our tweak to Bravery the Artefact is a good pick.

Drakkfoot's counter-negation of wounds could be very strong or wasted depending on who you fight.  Given our lack of Rend it is super frustrating to have an enemy then make a SAS roll...so...seems solid.

Not sure about the CA. It might be a worse roll to dispel than your potentially buffed shaman are getting...but if you pitch up against an enemy who is throwing out a lot of spells, the ability to counter a critical spell might be handy. The temptation to burn through CPs is real, but of you have Wurrgog generating CP each turn that's offset a little  maybe?

Fireball is a good trade for Arcane Bolt. Combined with Fist of Gork there is potential to whittle down opposing hordes, and ranged mortals is a small mitigation of our lack of Rend.

I like Burning Tattooz. Got briefly excited about Burning Glowing Tattoos...then realised you couldn't do that.

 

One thing to note about Freeze and Run. It's not just the retreat move - it's another move in your turn. If you charge a small unit and run away from it, Boars can reach basically anywhere on the board after a move + charge + retreat in a single turn, making stealing objectives a breeze. 

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Anyone thought about going Allegiance Bonesplitterz but with some IJ allies? The updated Gor-Gruntas seem like a solid, self-sufficient unit. Anything else stand out to you all?

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For me the issue with Gruntas is that I'd want 6 + a Warchanter, and that's 430 points now.

You can fit 10 Brutes + Warchanter at 390, but they're crazy slow on their own...I'd probably rather take 8 Big Stabbas at 400, and be able to Breath of Gork and run + charge.

So personally, I think they're better combined in a Big Waaagh, where you can fit enough units + support to make them work a bit more smoothly?

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My first 20 arrow boys painted. Just need basing. I think I’ll treat myself to 5 Boarboyz, then another 10 arrowboys, 5 more boarboys, finish the last 10 arrow boys, thennnnnn, big stabba time.

696AB319-8541-4E58-A12D-91FED53EA67E.jpeg.6796aef1b66af7d64ae9ab3c75d5031a.jpeg

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Already posted that on Ironjawz thread, taking my chance here:

Could someone confirm me that cover bonus is still Wholly within? a friend is arguing that is now just within cause it say Wholly on or within. In my interpretation this mean wholly within, if not i had totally miss that ( and nobody never pointed that to me since AoS2 lol)

@PlasticCraic? @svnvaldez?

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@broche I would argue that it's still wholly within.

It's a single clause, "wholly"....on or within

Otherwise, you would need a comma to separate the clauses: 

"Wholly on, or within"

I'm not a  lawyer, but that would be my interpretation!  (I think your opponent is being a bit cheeky tbh...)

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3 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

I'm not a  lawyer, but that would be my interpretation!

english is your first language, so it's already a plus ;)

it's stated at Capital City Bloodbath in ottawa,  one of his opponent said it was just within now and this was confirmed by the TO. They it propagated like a fake news around here...

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, broche said:

Already posted that on Ironjawz thread, taking my chance here:

Could someone confirm me that cover bonus is still Wholly within? a friend is arguing that is now just within cause it say Wholly on or within. In my interpretation this mean wholly within, if not i had totally miss that ( and nobody never pointed that to me since AoS2 lol)

@PlasticCraic? @svnvaldez?

With all rules questions the first thing I do is drop all preconceived notions of what I think is right. Then I open up my trusty PDFs of all rules that I keep on my computer (thank you russians for making these free lol - I'm in the 30 and under crowd that do not believe in digital property rights :) ).

Quick Ctrl F of "cover" in the "errata of the core book" and "designers’ commentary of the core rules" return no results. Ctrl F of the Core Rules has 6 results - only 1 of interest imo. 

"Add 1 to save rolls for a unit if all of its models are wholly on or within a terrain feature when the rolls are made."

Ctrl F  "wholly on" only returns 1 result in the 3 documents.

Ctrl F "within" returns 94 results in the 3 documents.

"Wholly within" and "within" are typically followed by x inches. Probably should be an FAQ of what "Wholly on" means since you probably don't want to write "Wholly within zero inches" to mean you are physically fully on something.

RAW your friend might have a point. Probably not the ROI of cover but typically I don't care much about ROI. First time I have ever heard of this however, and never have played it or seen it played this way. 

I'm sure there are countless examples like this that need an FAQ. I try not to think about it too much. KEYWORD and KEYWORDS drive me crazy personally. A keyword and the plural of the keyword are not really the same keyword imo. 

A benefit of being a tournament gamer is if this came up in game... I'd just call the TO over for a ruling. It doesn't really matter if the TO gets the ruling right or wrong imo. That is the way it's going to be judged and tough luck for the guy he rules against. But if you lose a game on 1 bad TO calling you probably should have been winning by a larger amount... that way one human error won't cost you.

Edited by svnvaldez
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On 10/7/2019 at 3:48 AM, Requizen said:

One thing to note about Freeze and Run. It's not just the retreat move - it's another move in your turn. If you charge a small unit and run away from it, Boars can reach basically anywhere on the board after a move + charge + retreat in a single turn, making stealing objectives a breeze. 

Another option to make freeze and run incredibly useful would be to cast Gorkamorkas warcry on something nasty, charge it with your boarboyz, then freeze and run before the enemy unit gets to attack (in your turn you can do your end-of-phase actions first). This becomes especially nice if it’s a monster and you can swing round it with a 6” pile in then catapult off with the command ability to take an objective.

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I'm looking for an extra competitive list of 1k points for a 2x2 battle in 2x1000 pts.
I would like to use Kunnin' Rukk or Brutal Rukk.

Kunnin' Rukk

  • Savage Big Boss
  • Wurrgog Prophet
  • 20x Arrowboys 
  • 20x Arrowboys
  • 10x Arrowboys

Brutal Rukk

  • Savage Big Boss
  • Savage Big Boss
  • 15x Boarboys (stikkas)
  • 10x Boarboys (stikkas)

Here the plan is a kick and run. 2 big boss to let the first one fight, and then uses his ability Let Me At ’Em to let the other one fight and use the second ability Let Me At ’Em to let the 15 boarboys fight (let me know if it's possible btw...). It means 3 units fight before the first one of my opponent....WTF 😅 

If I play Drakkfoot the goal is to make as much as Mortal Wounds and Wounds T1. With the Strength of Purpose, I'm looking for a plan to have MW as much as possible with the Prophet and also the buff for the Arrowboys. Is Stabbas an interesting possibility with the run and charge ? I can switch 10 arrowboys and the prophet by 4 stabbas and a Wardokk. Or Balewind Vortex + Endless spells ?

 

 

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15 hours ago, Spiney Norman said:

Another option to make freeze and run incredibly useful would be to cast Gorkamorkas warcry on something nasty, charge it with your boarboyz, then freeze and run before the enemy unit gets to attack (in your turn you can do your end-of-phase actions first). This becomes especially nice if it’s a monster and you can swing round it with a 6” pile in then catapult off with the command ability to take an objective.

Amazing catch, I hadn't even thought of that. That makes Warcry even more desirable, as if it wasn't enough already.

Another interesting thing to note about Icebone: The rule says "An Icebone Maniak Weirdnob General must have this command trait instead...", but there's no such distinction for other generals, nor a distinction that says you have to use a Maniak Weirdnob as your general. So I ran a Prophet as my General with Master of the Weird and just had the Maniak Weirdnob there.

Similarly, the Bonegrinz Artifact must be given to the first Savage Big Boss to receive an Artifact... but you can just give a regular Artifact to any other Hero and not worry about it.

This makes both of those subfactions very lucrative, as they only have half the usual downsides that subfactions normally come with.

 

Had a game yesterday against Seraphon. I ran:

Icebone

Wurrgog Prophet (Master of the Weird) - Brutal Beast Spirits
Maniak Weirdnob (Kattanak Pelt) - Kunnin Beast Spirits
Savage Big Boss
Wardokk - Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk - Gorkamorka's Breath

30x Savage Orruks (Spears)
30x Arrowboyz
10x Maniak Boarboyz
5x Boarboyz
5x Boarboyz

4x Savage Big Stabbas

1 Command Point

1990/2000

My opponent wasn't the best player in the game, and on Starstrike 2 of the 3 comet landings were right on top of my blobs, so it's not super indicative, but I did learn some things:

-Big Stabbas are the truth. Run + Charge baseline turns them from "slow, but deadly" to "haha time to fly up and murder everything".
-Savage Orruks do serious damage now. I was so used to them just being chump chaff with only 1 attack each, but at 30 with some buffs they just drown anything not on a high save in dice. Add in Icebone for extra stabbin.
-Arrowboyz with buffs = great, Arrowboyz without buffs = fine. Same as before, really, but without old Kunnin Rukk to make them crazy double tap, when to put buffs on them and when to just let them be more chip damage is a much more interesting question.
-Between lower casting values, Weirddokk dance, Master of the Weird, and Arcane Terrain, our spells are way, way more reliable overall. Which is good, because they force multiply by a lot. 
-I didn't utilize Tireless Trackers that much, but after playing with it a bit I can see how you could make a pretty scary Alpha Strike army with it.

Overall the army feels much better than pre-Warclans. Streamlining things like dice rolls, adding quality of life buffs, and just relative increases across the board makes everything feel much better to play.

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Nice report @Requizen

The Icebone combo with warcry is really interesting. But if I would play BS at the moment, I would use Darkfoot 100% sure. I know that Icebone and Bonegrinz are much better overall subfaction, but being able to be almost auto win against fyreslayer which I consider our worst matchup is priceless.

You can also expect to see much more Phoenix guard and Frost pheonix around with the release of Cities, and Darkfoot cripple that as well. 

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4 minutes ago, broche said:

Nice report @Requizen

The Icebone combo with warcry is really interesting. But if I would play BS at the moment, I would use Darkfoot 100% sure. I know that Icebone and Bonegrinz are much better overall subfaction, but being able to be almost auto win against fyreslayer which I consider our worst matchup is priceless.

You can also expect to see much more Phoenix guard and Frost pheonix around with the release of Cities, and Darkfoot cripple that as well. 

Yeah I think as has been said, it's going to be meta dependent. The armies that really lean on shrug saves are Nurgle, DoK, Phoenix Guard Cities (probably Phoenicum), Death, Fyreslayers, and Skaven if they're Monster heavy. All of those are relatively prevalent in the game, so there's a good chance that Drakkfoot will be a counter-meta build. 

On the other hand, Slaanesh, Khorne, Stormcast, Gitz, Sylvaneth, Deepkin, etc don't have any at all, or have it only in limited amounts. It's a tricky thing, because the Command Ability, "Trait", and Artifact for Drakkfoot are all relatively terrible, so if you're not getting mileage out of the shrug ignoring it can feel like a waste.

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38 minutes ago, broche said:

Nice report @Requizen

The Icebone combo with warcry is really interesting. But if I would play BS at the moment, I would use Darkfoot 100% sure. I know that Icebone and Bonegrinz are much better overall subfaction, but being able to be almost auto win against fyreslayer which I consider our worst matchup is priceless.

You can also expect to see much more Phoenix guard and Frost pheonix around with the release of Cities, and Darkfoot cripple that as well. 

I agree 1000% with you.
Drakfoot is over because for the rest of the armies we can manage them without  bonuses about save or rend. I deeply have the same feeling than now BS can be interesting in a competitive way.
 

27 minutes ago, Requizen said:

On the other hand, Slaanesh, Khorne, Stormcast, Gitz, Sylvaneth, Deepkin, etc don't have any at all, or have it only in limited amounts. It's a tricky thing, because the Command Ability, "Trait", and Artifact for Drakkfoot are all relatively terrible, so if you're not getting mileage out of the shrug ignoring it can feel like a waste.

Of course but if you play more than 1 hero this can be better than it sounds ;) 

 

 

Edited by hurben
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