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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

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14 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

They also mentioned that right now the story is mainly being driven by Death, but Destruction will be the focus next in terms of driving the story.

Best news to come out of the event!  I hadn't heard that until now, thanks for putting a smile on this old Megaboss's face.

15 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

That said, I would not expect anything aside from a rewrite of Bonesplitterz or Ironjawz in terms of Orruk books.  Hopefully they tackle Ogres soon as well.  I would also not expect much more than a rewrite book with a terrain piece and some endless spells.  

I would be ok with that for Bonesplitterz.  For Ironjawz I would hope for slightly more to be honest, since they've been skipped in terms of already newer and more competitive Battletomes (Sylvaneth) getting an update while Ironjawz are still labouring.  I think the best justification for them being kept in limbo is that they are getting a larger update.  That being said, I'm more interested in getting better rules than new models.  I love all the kits in both armies, bar the Maniak Weirdnob.

18 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Personally I would like to see some form of big centerpiece kit for Bonesplitterz since the army is really missing that, but I honestly don’t expect to see it happening soon.

Agreed, I've said it before but I think a huge chariot pulled by a team of 6 boards would be cool.  It gives you that big centrepiece without using a lore-breaking monster.  Put a Wurrgog on the back with a unique spell and CA that gives Boarboys heavy rend / MWs on the charge.  That being said I agree that I wouldn't expect anything soon!

20 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

I would be happy with a book rewrite where they do a better job making all of the units useful and have a good role.  I would like to see Savage Orcs as an actual compelling option rather than just totally outclassed by Morboyz and Arrer Boyz.

It's still hard to comprehend just how bad Savage Orruks are.  1 attack, 4s and 4s, no rend, damage 1.  Absolute garbage....surely the worst unit ever to have had a points increase.  Guilt by association because they can be part of a Kunnin Rukk I think.

22 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

In addition I would really like the army to return to playing more like the Savage Orc fluff (both from the Old World and from the 1st AoS Battletome) where it is primarily a melee force comprised of a horde of frenzied psychopaths trying to beat everything to death with sticks and rocks - rather than the shooting force it became.  I don’t believe that build was really purposeful on GWs part.  I know that might be controversial for some, but it’s just my opinion and preference.  I think the shooting should be present in the army and I don’t think it should be poor.  I also would like shooting heavy builds to still be possible, but I just don’t want that to be the only way to play the army - or even the primary way.

Couldn't agree more, and that's coming from someone who plays a lot of Kunnin Rukk.  At the end of the day they are hunters, so it's thematic that they should be running around with bows and arrows, but it really should be a melee and magic army with shooting support.  

I'm more than happy for Kunnin Rukk to be removed from the game entirely if it means we become a viable combat army with strong magic.  Also as perhaps the most religious army in the game, they really should have prayers.

I'm really optimistic that a modernised and completely rewritten book will completely reinvigorate this army.  I'm more than happy to rip off the band aid and lose Arrow Boy spam if we become a viable army in other ways - bring it on!

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I am on the fence about the idea of prayers in a Savage Orc army.  I get that it is a good way to put some buffs into the army, and it could be a good way to make Wardoks have a better buff system.

However, I very much like that GW stuck with the shaman leader theme for Bonesplitterz when they split the Savage Orcs into their own distinct army.  Orcs in Warhammer have historically never used Shaman as the leaders of their forces except in rare instances.  Orcs almost always follow a powerful warlord and the shaman are something of a combination of advisors to the warlords and crazy oddball lunatics that the rest of the orcs tolerate and somewhat avoid.  GW kept to this theme when they created the Ironjawz so it still seems to be present for Orruks.

But Savage Orcs were always the oddity in that they typically pay great deference to the shaman.  So much so that the shaman are typically the leaders and tell the various warlords and bosses what to do.  I was very glad to see that fluff maintained and even emphasized in the Bonesplitterz army.  And while I admit that they are religious - to me that religion is exemplified through magic and not prayers.  

I would like to see GW rework the shaman warscrolls to emphasize their ability to channel the power of Gorkamorka more than they currently do.  For example, I would like to see Gaze of Mork/Gork become a standard warscroll ranged attack or ability rather than a spell.  Bonesplitterz shaman should be casting plenty of spells while also unleashing bolts of green energy from their eyes or staff.  I see no reason at all that a ranged attack can not represent magical power.  And if they wanted they could even make an ability where the attack becomes more powerful when lots of orcs are nearby and/or where the shaman could potentially be harmed (1 to hit or something).  Anyways, the reason I bring this up is that shaman are integral to Bonesplitterz and I would like them to be able to blast stuff with magic without having to give up choosing useful buff/curse spells.   I would like powerful attack spells also, since that has always been a theme of Greenskinz magic, but I would like some regular magic attacks on the warscroll just to reinforce the theme that these are powerful magic users.

I would also like to see the concept of the JuJu dance expanded.  So if they need to add a prayer system or some other form of buff/curse ability then I would like to see the Witch Doctor voodoo concept explored and JuJu dances become a more integral system used by most of the wizards.  But, if they put prayers into an Orruk army and GW decided that only one army would get them then I would vote for Ironjawz instead.  It seems more fitting for them in my opinion.

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I hope that when the Bonesplitterz update happens that they get lucky and at least get a plastic hero release of some kind like a plastic Wurrzag Prophet, I feel the range kind of need at least one legitimate plastic hero. the Savage Big Boss kind of count but he, unfortunately, has his foot sculpt on a square base

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Love what your saying. I'd also just be happy with the update battletome with spells and scenery.  

An endless spell of a bone Trex, big bone shrine or skull that they carry around with them. It would be the best.  My savages have been put aside and working on them Gitz,  but hot damn would I swap straight back with an update. 

Im also foreseeing that my 40 arrer boys will not see so much use. 

BRING ON THE PIGS.  

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Sketching out my first list...

 

Savage Big Boss (Gen)

Wurrgog Prophet

Wardokk

Savage BB Manics x5

Savage Orruk Morboyz x30

Savage BB x5

Savage Big Stabbas x2

 

How does that sound as an entry point slash leaning tool?

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2019 at 4:33 AM, Souleater said:

Sketching out my first list...

 

Savage Big Boss (Gen)

Wurrgog Prophet

Wardokk

Savage BB Manics x5

Savage Orruk Morboyz x30

Savage BB x5

Savage Big Stabbas x2

 

How does that sound as an entry point slash leaning tool?

I feel compelled to tell you not to continue investing in this army until the new Battletome comes out.  Or at the very least the 2019 General's Handbook.

But to answer your question.

I think Bonesplitterz cavalry should be deployed as a  size of 10 instead of 5.  Maniaks are also superior to Boarboys right now.

 As for the Morboys they are better than the standard orruks. At their base they are below average so they need buffs like Brutal Beast Spirits and their Power of the Beast Spirit ability to get them going.

Big Stabba's are good. They do well if they don't get shot off the table.

The Wardokk is pointless unless you're going with a Kopp Rukk & Drakkfoot Warclan.

Wurrgog Prophet and Savage Big Boss are good.

Not sure what warscroll battalions (if any) you're looking to put together. With your 30 Morboys, Wardokk, & Prophet you are headed in the direction of a Kopp Rukk & Drakkfoot Warclan build.

Edited by Mogwai Man
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Okay, I appreciate the heads up. I won't pick anything else up for now.

At the moment the ladz are more of a side project to build and paint as a break from other stuff. 

 

Thank you.

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If I finish my army fast enough, I will be able to participate in a 2k points tournament at my local GW. I intend to use my bonesplitterz and I will report back how it went. In my opinion bonesplitterz is still a really cool army and can be viable for competitive play as they are now. It isn't as easy as some of the newer armies, but we are better than most of the older ones. If you just use the huge amount of wounds to your advantage, you can win games with out tabeling your opponent like other armies.

I really love the looks and lore of Savage orruks. If you are not about high level competitive play and like their esthetic there should not be anything to stop you from getting the green tide of  naked waaagh. 

I will probably never attended any big tournaments anyway, because I don't like the mindset of some competitive player's, that play just to win.( Looking at the skink and Phoenix lists) 

In my local area are people still playing their old stuff and some just using what they like the look of most. 

I don't intend to speak against anyone here. I just want to point out that there is more to this hobby than having the best rules. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, AlmGandix3 said:

If I finish my army fast enough, I will be able to participate in a 2k points tournament at my local GW. I intend to use my bonesplitterz and I will report back how it went. In my opinion bonesplitterz is still a really cool army and can be viable for competitive play as they are now. It isn't as easy as some of the newer armies, but we are better than most of the older ones. If you just use the huge amount of wounds to your advantage, you can win games with out tabeling your opponent like other armies.

I really love the looks and lore of Savage orruks. If you are not about high level competitive play and like their esthetic there should not be anything to stop you from getting the green tide of  naked waaagh. 

I will probably never attended any big tournaments anyway, because I don't like the mindset of some competitive player's, that play just to win.( Looking at the skink and Phoenix lists) 

In my local area are people still playing their old stuff and some just using what they like the look of most. 

I don't intend to speak against anyone here. I just want to point out that there is more to this hobby than having the best rules. 

Bonesplitterz are not viable for competitive play right now. It's due to having an outdated battletome (2016). You will not beat someone playing a tier one faction. Those factions have better rules and Bonesplitterz are stuck re-rolling 1's.  I have 3k worth of Bonesplitterz and I am stuck waiting on an updated battletome to be competitive against those factions. 

I still love the armies aesthetic which is why I bought them but they are not in a good place right now.

Edited by Mogwai Man

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6 hours ago, Souleater said:

Okay, I appreciate the heads up. I won't pick anything else up for now.

At the moment the ladz are more of a side project to build and paint as a break from other stuff. 

 

Thank you.

No problem. I have 3000 points of this army and I am stuck waiting on the updated battletome.

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That doesn't particularly bother me, I already have a hard competitive army, I'm looking for something fun where I can be a midtable hero and feel good if I go 3-2 at best. 

Anyone kitbashed a Rogue Idol? I like the FW model but I'm wondering if I can make something similar without dropping that much for one big rock boi. Plus, you know, hobby time.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Requizen said:

Anyone kitbashed a Rogue Idol? I like the FW model but I'm wondering if I can make something similar without dropping that much for one big rock boi. Plus, you know, hobby time.

I saw some kitbashs online I'll try to find them again. There is a cool alternative model I might get, even though I got the original for cheap. 

https://hexy.store/monsters/1304-ork-demigod-ahle-ghruda.html?search_query=Ork&results=16

For me it fits the savage orruk look alot better than the original. I also saw a papo orc conversion for a gargant which I will do eventually as it looks far better than the GW model especially for orruks.

https://woffboot.blogspot.com/2013/04/also-advertises-corn-niblets.html?m=1

The person did a really good job.

Edited by AlmGandix3
The Link for the idol was too old and did not work properly

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This is something ive noticed just now.

orruk warboss command ability says EVERY melee weapon gets 1+ attack.

when you look at the warscroll of maniak squad the boars attacks are also listed under melee weapons.

does that mean both the rider and the boar get 1+ attack? 

has this been faq'd?

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On 5/25/2019 at 3:24 PM, MeSmashDaNoobs said:

does that mean both the rider and the boar get 1+ attack? 

yes 

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Hi ! What is your thoughts about this list. The goal is not to be ultra competitive but to have something that can work well nontheless. Will maybe be a base for a 2k Snagga Rukk list.

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- General
- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint 
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast Spirits
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner

Battleline
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)
20 x Savage Orruk Morboys (240)

Units
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)

Total: 940 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 90
 

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13 hours ago, Ecko said:

Hi ! What is your thoughts about this list. The goal is not to be ultra competitive but to have something that can work well nontheless. Will maybe be a base for a 2k Snagga Rukk list.

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- General
- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint 
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast Spirits
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner

Battleline
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)
20 x Savage Orruk Morboys (240)

Units
2 x Savage Big Stabbas (100)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws (40)

Total: 940 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 90
 

With the usual proviso that everything will change when they get around to updating our Battletome, I would have the following comments:

- It's generally a solid core

- You have the points to bump your Morr Boys up to a 30, so I would do that

- Unless it's because you only want to buy one box of 20...in which case you won't be able to assemble the Big Stabbas.  2 bases uses up 4 Boyz, leaving you with 16

- Big Stabbas are better in larger groups, because they are dicey.  I'd recommend taking the plunge and buying 2 kits, and making 30 Boyz, 4 Big Stabbas and that leaves 2 spare for conversions / Big Stabba arbitrage against future boxes you will purchase

- Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws, I presume that's because you like the model?  It's WAY worse than Geminids or Pendulum at the same points

The other thing I would say is that I like 2 wizards minimum in every army.  One for Brutal Beast Spirits, one for Hand of Gork.  I'd possibly drop the Big Stabbas from this army until you are playing at bigger points levels and have room (and models) for more of them, in favour of a second wizard.

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On 5/21/2019 at 1:33 AM, Mogwai Man said:

Bonesplitterz are not viable for competitive play right now. It's due to having an outdated battletome (2016). You will not beat someone playing a tier one faction

I don't agree with  that Mogwai Man, I know for a fact that we can still compete against more modern Battletomes because I do it regularly. 

I've taken Bonesplitterz to 3 events this year, and gone Podium - 1st - Best Destruction.

All 3 armies had the Kunnin Rukk: for the first event it was a minimum Kunnin Rukk in a mixed arms force (lots of Boarboy Maniaks and Big Stabbas).  The other two events were maximum Kunnin Rukks (Bonegrinz).

Something to bear in mind: we have a few legacy rules that play massively in our favour.  Specifcally:

- exploding attacks on modifiable 6+s...with access to bonuses to hit

- spammable command abilities

- loosey goosey phases in which our bonuses apply (rerolls and extra attacks in Hero Phase, Shooting Phase and Combat Phase)

And at the same time we have access to some of the better 2nd ed tech, specifically free summoning via Bonegrinz.  

Now, you might say Kunnin Rukk is boring, and I wouldn't disagree (although as a minimum Rukk to support a combined arms force, it can actually be a really engaging army).  But that's a different conversation.  In my experiance, we can still mix it with the big boys and girls.

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Imo England's 6nations lists are the best templates to net list off of since each team has the restriction that they can not duplicate warscrolls across the team. This forces each team to come up with what they think are the 8 best archetypes for lists. It is a team event so  teams will try to pair lists into good match ups and avoid poor match ups... but if you want to go undefeated in a singles tournament your going to need to get a good draw as well. 

This year Byron Orde is taking the Bonegrinz Kunning Rukk. This is a very good list and you can easily place at the top end of an event with it. It has been shown to be a good list for a while now. You can also drop the Bonegrinz and just take min krukk, you'll do just fine with that as well.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sDFjpW6lG6avTPW2-VNzOsnPmpMUX6ah/view

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8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

With the usual proviso that everything will change when they get around to updating our Battletome, I would have the following comments:

Yes for sure it will changes things and the GH19 in June will maybe makes small changes too !

8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

- You have the points to bump your Morr Boys up to a 30, so I would do that

I missed that yes, 60 pts for 10 more guys is rather good. This thing is that i wanted to spare 50 pts for an extra CP for a potential +2 attacks in one turn for the warboss or spare one for immune bravery. So i guess both options can be good, will need some games to test this.

8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

- Unless it's because you only want to buy one box of 20...in which case you won't be able to assemble the Big Stabbas.  2 bases uses up 4 Boyz, leaving you with 16

Noted !

8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

- Ravenak's Gnashing Jaws, I presume that's because you like the model?  It's WAY worse than Geminids or Pendulum at the same points

I always bring Pendulum in my lists if i can and i agree it is way better for the same cost, that jaw was a better fit to the army style let's say !!

8 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

The other thing I would say is that I like 2 wizards minimum in every army.  One for Brutal Beast Spirits, one for Hand of Gork.  I'd possibly drop the Big Stabbas from this army until you are playing at bigger points levels and have room (and models) for more of them, in favour of a second wizard.

I see, yes i can easily swap the big stabbas for a Wardokk for the same pts cost and bring a second spell in and a random buff !

I know arrowboys is the go to unit right now, espacially in a Kunnin Ruk, but i really want to build something different that could still work outside of it. Again the idea is not to win tournaments but to compete at a good level anyway.

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (140)
- General
- Trait: Squirmy Warpaint 
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk (100)
- Lore of the Savage Waaagh: Hand of Gork or Mork
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruk Morboys (300)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Aethervoid Pendulum (40)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 107
 

Here is the alternative list with your advices. I loose the extra CP and gain wounds and potential projection.

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Yeah I much prefer that one, personally!  I think it's a lot tighter.

I think it's a good core that you can move forward with, and is hopefully relatively future proof too (with the possible exception of the Warboss whose days may be numbered!)

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45 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah I much prefer that one, personally!  I think it's a lot tighter.

I think it's a good core that you can move forward with, and is hopefully relatively future proof too (with the possible exception of the Warboss whose days may be numbered!)

yeah more presence on the table is somewhat always a good thing ! Yeah i think the warboss is cleary meant to disapear but we will maybe have other options to replace him. A savage big boss is a decent replacement here, less versatile he but can fill the gap and give me back my CP i f i drop the endless spell !

I can't wait to see if the GH19 brings some changes to all this though !

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I don't agree with  that Mogwai Man, I know for a fact that we can still compete against more modern Battletomes because I do it regularly. 

I've taken Bonesplitterz to 3 events this year, and gone Podium - 1st - Best Destruction.

All 3 armies had the Kunnin Rukk: for the first event it was a minimum Kunnin Rukk in a mixed arms force (lots of Boarboy Maniaks and Big Stabbas).  The other two events were maximum Kunnin Rukks (Bonegrinz).

Something to bear in mind: we have a few legacy rules that play massively in our favour.  Specifcally:

- exploding attacks on modifiable 6+s...with access to bonuses to hit

- spammable command abilities

- loosey goosey phases in which our bonuses apply (rerolls and extra attacks in Hero Phase, Shooting Phase and Combat Phase)

And at the same time we have access to some of the better 2nd ed tech, specifically free summoning via Bonegrinz.  

Now, you might say Kunnin Rukk is boring, and I wouldn't disagree (although as a minimum Rukk to support a combined arms force, it can actually be a really engaging army).  But that's a different conversation.  In my experiance, we can still mix it with the big boys and girls.

You can cite your anecdotal experience but that doesn't change how the faction is overall right now. For the most part Bonesplitterz doesn't compete. People can have success via a kunnin rukk but I think it's a boring way to play.

Edited by Mogwai Man

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I'm wanting to try BoneSplitterz, but everything I'm reading recently seems to indicate that GW overlooked a flaw which made them very competitive, and in a knee-****** response, nerfed them to heck and back.

Is it likely now that regular orks have gone, that Bonesplitterz will follow? I really like the idea of stone-age orks covered in warpaint.

Our store is doing a mini escalation league, so was thinking of going to it with Bonesplitterz, but not sure if they are going to get squatted or not.

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6 minutes ago, Ritualnet said:

I'm wanting to try BoneSplitterz, but everything I'm reading recently seems to indicate that GW overlooked a flaw which made them very competitive, and in a knee-****** response, nerfed them to heck and back.

Is it likely now that regular orks have gone, that Bonesplitterz will follow? I really like the idea of stone-age orks covered in warpaint.

Our store is doing a mini escalation league, so was thinking of going to it with Bonesplitterz, but not sure if they are going to get squatted or not.

I would be incredibly surprised if Bonesplitterz got squatted. Just don't see it happening. Think they're much likelier to see a new battle tome than get squatted. Until then though they're not the most competitive and could possibly take a further hit next month if the new handbook and subsequent faq hits things like command point stacking. But by god are they fun to play! 

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33 minutes ago, Mogwai Man said:

You can cite your anecdotal experience but that doesn't change how the faction is overall right now. For the most part Bonesplitterz doesn't compete. People can have success via a kunnin rukk but I think it's a boring way to play.

I don't see how kunning ruk is more boring than FEC attacking again and again, Skaven deleting your army, DoK hag'nar or 3 x 30 grimghast. Almost have army have 1-2 strategy that is completly skewed. 

Also boring and competitive is not the same adjective. 

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