AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

[swarmofseals]

@kozokus I had to admit at first glance I was skeptical of your list but after reading your excellent writeup I had to give it a go. It definitely seems legit! I really wish there was a way to get a wardokk in there but I think your build is the only Big Rukk configuration that makes sense.

My only question is why Icebone? I get that going Icebone or tribeless gets you that +1 to cast command trait -- that's definitely nice. But ignoring all ward saves is just so juicy.

[kozokus]

On 10/11/2020 at 6:04 AM, swarmofseals said:

I had to admit at first glance I was skeptical

I can't blame you, i was too. Let me tell you how i went to this.

I went to a 32 guy tournament withe the Kharadron list (and won the tournament). I saw one of my friends and asked him what he was playing and how he went. He was playing the bik rukk list, without the snagga rukk and with a minimal brutal rukk instead.

*Read the list* That is cute, did you really spend 500 points in bataillons and think it would work? oh dear.

What? you made 4-1 in the tournament?

Wait, you only loose your match vs Nurgle on Places of Arcane Power because you missplayed and gave him the first turn?

I need to see your list again. mmmh. ooh. Ah, i see. How elegant. One drop? an extra tryumph? interesting. 

Let me rewrite a couple of parts of this list. Mmmh maniacboarboys, yesyes. An extra caster too, that's sweet. Wait, ... This list only costs 250€ from nothing? Delicious, BCR tier.

Then i made a test against an average DOK player on TTS and obliterated him on T3. Mistakes where made on both sides but i saw a pattern. Second test on TTS against Beastclaw, same result although the first initiative was far more crutial.

Then i spent 2 weeks painting 74 orruks on contrast while listening tribal musics. When the lists for the tournaments where revealed the reviewers where hesitants to comment the list with too much disdain. The list looked goofy but i was reknown to make strange lists work better than they appear (one day i will talk about my skullcannon bloodhost list). Then tournament. Then i gave the Big Rukk to a friend for the next tournament (with every explanations, tricks and tactics on every scenarios) and tested my futur lists against this. Of course it beated the Jaws of mork with ease, as expected. then i tested a homebrew STD KotET list, that i was sure could beat the list. Futur proved me right, i crushed most of the orrucks on battle for the pass, and was on the lead, but then he rolled Breath of Mork on the mystic warpaints and could cast it twice and i lost the game outright. /sadface. He will play the list on the next 30 player tournament in a week. 

On 10/11/2020 at 6:04 AM, swarmofseals said:

I really wish there was a way to get a wardokk in there but I think your build is the only Big Rukk configuration that makes sense.

Actually you can switch the Snagga Rukk for a Kop Rukk but you trade the Weirdnob for 2 Wardokk. I think it is legit but you loose some mobility and the  exploding 6 spell, but gain some utility.

On 10/11/2020 at 6:04 AM, swarmofseals said:

My only question is why Icebone? I get that going Icebone or tribeless gets you that +1 to cast command trait -- that's definitely nice. But ignoring all ward saves is just so juicy.

That was one of the hardest part to decide.

Bonegrinz was quickly removed. The "force to charge is both situational and easy to avoid", the "can't retreat" is more useful but not that much against a shooting army. The command ability also goes toward a more close combat oriented army.

Icebone was an easy choice, no locked general trait, allowing me to choose great hunter or +1 to cast (another choice) and the comman ability synergize with maniak boarboys, giving some tricks and plays. The -1 rend on 6 is universal, it is useful against anyone, anyone has a save after all. It needs to be "lucky" but it is something you don't have to think about. It is a strict dammage boost. Easy to choose.

Then Drakkfoot. The no-general trait was something i could live with, as the command ability and the useless artifact. The Ethereal rule is a joke, unless you expect to throw Big Stabbas on ghosts, which i wasn't going to. The ignore-ignore-wound is more interesting. But who is exactly having this rule? lets see.

Heartguards and phoenix guards are the main offenders, for sure. This rule is a major boon against them, no discussion.

All death armies and daughters have a 6+, sure this is a boost but having an occasionnal rend-1 also counts. My statistics skills are bad enough to be unsure of what is best.

Gloomspites, and all non-nurgle chaos armies have almost none unless a couple of perticular units.  Same for Kharadron, lumineths, Stormcasts, Sylvaneths.

Seraphons have a 6++ aura banner. I think i already have a terrible matchup against them (no experience means i don't really know). Lets put that aside.

Then There is Nurgle and Beastclaw armies that have a very present 5++ shrug.

Now i have to think about my meta. Beastclaw are one of the most popular armies around (easy to build/ collect / paint) but i think my initial " vs monsters bonuses" and listbuild puts me ahead in this matchup. Nurgle is popular too and this is a true problem. Not because of the shrug but because of the -X to hit in shooting. Problem that can hardly be solved.

So in the end the Drakkfoot is prevalent VS heartguard, phoenix guard and Nurgle. Icebone is (more or less) equal or prevalent vs the rest (counting the general trait that allows me to deal with thoses menaces in a different way). I also remembered that Drakkfoot doesn't do anything when you deal Mortal wounds which can be a significant part of my dammages in the magic phase.

I admit i wasn't sure what was best. I decided that if i hesitated between two dammage boosts, Icebone was my go just because of the command ability and the general trait. That is debatable and i can ear every criticism about my reasoning.

[swarmofseals]

2 hours ago, kozokus said:

I also remembered that Drakkfoot doesn't do anything when you deal Mortal wounds which can be a significant part of my dammages in the magic phase.

Are you certain about that? I've run into quite a few people who seem to think that the Drakkfoot ability works for all sources of damage.

And yeah, I know that it is technically possible to get a Wardokk in a Big Rukk list, but I think the cost (losing the maniak weirdnob and boarboy mainiaks) is clearly too high.

[Oreaper84]

25 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

Are you certain about that? I've run into quite a few people who seem to think that the Drakkfoot ability works for all sources of damage.

And yeah, I know that it is technically possible to get a Wardokk in a Big Rukk list, but I think the cost (losing the maniak weirdnob and boarboy mainiaks) is clearly too high.

Yes it specifically says "attacks ignore..." and Magic is not an attack whereas shooting and combat specifically call out attacks

[swarmofseals]

41 minutes ago, Oreaper84 said:

Yes it specifically says "attacks ignore..." and Magic is not an attack whereas shooting and combat specifically call out attacks

The "attacks ignore" refers to the part of the rule that negates the ethereal rule, not the separate second part of the rule ("in addition..."). The second part of the rule instead refers to "wounds inflicted by Drakkfoot units." It's entirely possible this refers only to wounds and not to mortal wounds, but it's not because of the attacks part in the previous clause.

[Enwolved]

19 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

The "attacks ignore" refers to the part of the rule that negates the ethereal rule, not the separate second part of the rule ("in addition..."). The second part of the rule instead refers to "wounds inflicted by Drakkfoot units." It's entirely possible this refers only to wounds and not to mortal wounds, but it's not because of the attacks part in the previous clause.

I think its completly right what you say here. 
But it would be really nice to know how it works because its actually a pretty big deal when your Prophet uses his Fist against like 40 Chainrasps or a bunch of Aelf dudes with Teclis save up  

[Oreaper84]

23 hours ago, Enwolved said:

I think its completly right what you say here. 
But it would be really nice to know how it works because its actually a pretty big deal when your Prophet uses his Fist against like 40 Chainrasps or a bunch of Aelf dudes with Teclis save up  

I have submitted the question specifically several times for FAQ consideration...and it has yet to be addressed. This issue popped up shortly after the tome released and the community consensus was that spells/non attack abilities do not count and they get their after dmg save. Now mortal wounds from attacks (like the artifact that procs mortal wounds) would ignore after saves. Again this has never been clarified...but this is the largely agreed upon interpertation.

Hope that helps

[OrcaLullaby]

On 10/5/2020 at 11:02 AM, kozokus said:

The only choice i can think of is throwing the balewind. It was good but i could have make it without and use the pre game mouvement to catch what i needed with fists of gork or by having a better placement. It was a good out-of jail card sometimes but i missed an insured tryumph. Tryumph are good when you are throwing 60 dices on 5+ with exploding 6'. Plus you never saw the face of your opponent when you are rolling 20 saves at 6+, rereolled them, then 6+ FNP and reroll them again.

I have  question here. Perhaps I've understand it wrong but how do you get the regular save re rolls? I do get that big rukk gives a natural reroll of the 6+ tattoo shrug. I thought that the only regular save shenanigans that we got is wardokk +1 save dance stack to kunnin' beast spirit in a big blob of pigs or savage orruks. Just ask because I haven't tried bonesplitterz that much outside of big whaagh and I would like to know about all the available tools.

Edited October 17, 2020 by OrcaLullaby

[swarmofseals]

8 hours ago, OrcaLullaby said:

I have  question here. Perhaps I've understand it wrong but how do you get the regular save re rolls? I do get that big rukk gives a natural reroll of the 6+ tattoo shrug. I thought that the only regular save shenanigans that we got is wardokk +1 save dance stack to kunnin' beast spirit in a big blob of pigs or savage orruks. Just ask because I haven't tried bonesplitterz that much outside of big whaagh and I would like to know about all the available tools.

He is talking about the possibility of the reroll saves triumph

[kozokus]

Indeed. I was just pointing that when aiming for a triumph you are hoping for hit or wound rerolls but even the armour can get useful.

[Kopfnussklopfer]

Hi Orruk players!
My brother gifted me a big pile of 6. edition Fantasy Orcboys, boards and some other Greenskin stuff.

So, i read old articles from years ago, just play them as Bonesplitter Orrucs.

Whats your oppinion, does this look and feel fine? Do people here do this?

Or would you recommend me playing some old Legends warscrolls because they still loke somehow not Savage enought.

[erasercrumbs]

On 10/21/2020 at 8:50 PM, Kopfnussklopfer said:

Hi Orruk players!
My brother gifted me a big pile of 6. edition Fantasy Orcboys, boards and some other Greenskin stuff.

So, i read old articles from years ago, just play them as Bonesplitter Orrucs.

Whats your oppinion, does this look and feel fine? Do people here do this?

Or would you recommend me playing some old Legends warscrolls because they still loke somehow not Savage enought.

I don't think many people would have too much of a problem with that. I wouldn't.

On a similar note, I am not very fond of the Wardokk model, does anyone know of any fitting third party alternatives?

[skinko]

28 minutes ago, erasercrumbs said:

I don't think many people would have too much of a problem with that. I wouldn't.

On a similar note, I am not very fond of the Wardokk model, does anyone know of any fitting third party alternatives?

I haven't painted them yet but just finished bashing some spare parts from the Savage Orruks box set and boar boy set together for two wardokks. Heads are the drums from the boar boy drummer cut in half.

[swarmofseals]

On 10/25/2020 at 6:50 AM, erasercrumbs said:

I don't think many people would have too much of a problem with that. I wouldn't.

On a similar note, I am not very fond of the Wardokk model, does anyone know of any fitting third party alternatives?

I asked this a bit upthread, or maybe it was in the OWC thread. Long story short there aren't many 3rd party options, but some of the OOP gw orc shamans are decent, and kitbashes can be great. I love @skinko's work above!

[PlasticCraic]

@erasercrumbs @swarmofseals there are a few from Mierce that may be worth a look

I used Queefus as a Maniank Weirdnob because he fits nicely on a boar, but as shown in the image he can just as easily be doing a little dance:

https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_blg_bnl_cha_050_000

I've picked up a Shazham too, he also fits the scale:

https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_blg_bnl_cha_048_000

Finally, I haven't bought this one, but he could also fit the bill:

https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_blg_bnl_cha_011_000

[Ratling]

Savage Orruks vs Savage Orruk Mordboys
Which is better and why?

[PlasticCraic]

Savage Orruks are better because they get a generous horde discount, have 2" range (important on 32mm bases) and can stack saves 

Morrboys still have their uses, mainly as minimum skirmishing / blocking chaff units within Kopp Rukk to get your drops right down (since it wraps up all your wizards in a Battalion)

[Boggler]

@kozokus

When you and your friend were making your Big Rukk, did you ever consider a Teef Rukk instead of the  Snaga Rukk? And, possibly putting it all in to a BW for the magic and or +2/+2 Turn 2/3 Big Stabbas? Obviously the two Kunnin Rukks will do great for board control, and the Snaga was well explained, I just want to know!

Let me know what you considered. The goal is still a 1 drop.

[Magnus The Blue]

3 hours ago, Boggler said:

@kozokus

When you and your friend were making your Big Rukk, did you ever consider a Teef Rukk instead of the  Snaga Rukk? And, possibly putting it all in to a BW for the magic and or +2/+2 Turn 2/3 Big Stabbas? Obviously the two Kunnin Rukks will do great for board control, and the Snaga was well explained, I just want to know!

Let me know what you considered. The goal is still a 1 drop.

I don't think BW would be a good call, as you miss out on the great Big Rukk battalion ability, which is really needed to stop your army being too fragile after spending so many points on battalions.  

Similarly I'd worry about investing points is fragile big stabbas.

[Warbossironteef]

You guys have inspired me to pull out my Bonesplitterz and give them a go. Like many of you the decision between Icebone and Drakkfoot is a tough one. My local meta doesn't have a lot of DoK and I think this type of list can handle most Mawtribes list so I'm going to try Icebone for awhile.  I really like the idea of a 1 drop but I guess I dont have the guts to spend 400+ points on Battalions. I'm going to see how this 4 drop list plays out. The Big Stabbas are very matchup dependent but in my mind this type of list really benefits from having one big threat against monsters and high armor units. 6 Stabbas against melee armies are great and threaten to one shot most monsters. It's another type of threat and they are also seem good at punishing melee armies who try to over extend to kill your arrowboys.

Thanks for sharing your list and experiences because it really got me excited to play BS again. I think this is a pretty balanced list! 

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Icebone
LEADERS
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits
Maniak Weirdnob (140)
- Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Savage Big Boss (90)
- Artefact: Kattanak Pelt
UNITS
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
10 x Savage Orruks (120)
10 x Savage Orruks (120)
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)
6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)
BATTALIONS
Kunnin' Rukk (140)
Snaga Rukk (120)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Balewind Vortex (40)
TOTAL: 1990/2000 WOUNDS: 193

[Belmail]

On 9/10/2020 at 11:23 AM, kozokus said:

Going to a 5 round tournament witht he following. Wish me luck.

Only made a couple of tests, 4 wins against classic lists, Beastclaw, Ironjaw, Kharadrons and daughters. Onelost against Tzeentch flamers.

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Icebone
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits
Maniak Weirdnob (140)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Savage Big Boss (90)
- Artefact: Kattanak Pelt
Savage Big Boss (90)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)
5 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (140)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
Big Rukk (80)
Snaga Rukk (120)
Kunnin' Rukk (140)
Kunnin' Rukk (140)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 175
 

Yes yes i know, i just spend 500 points in bataillons but believe me, this is worthy. The Onedrop thing is HUGE, beeing able to dictate the first turn is a big advantage when playing a shooting army. Plus that reroll is atrocious.

 

As a fellow bonesplitterz enthusiast I'm kind of curious how you manage to kill anything or not die with pretty much just arrowboys? 

I run a list with 30 spears, 20 spears, and 20x2 arrows in a kruk which I found it a good mix of damage and screen but I cant wrap my head around your particular list..

[kozokus]

13 minutes ago, Belmail said:

As a fellow bonesplitterz enthusiast I'm kind of curious how you manage to kill anything or not die with pretty much just arrowboys? 

I run a list with 30 spears, 20 spears, and 20x2 arrows in a kruk which I found it a good mix of damage and screen but I cant wrap my head around your particular list..

Not sure how to answer this  Arrowboys are ok unbuffed but can get murderous with +1 to hit and exploding 6, 
As for the "Not dying" part, it is a mixture of "not beeing in danger" and the rerollable shrug save, which is infamous. To behonest i spent more time moving flying models to objectives and paying CP for Battleshock immunity than anything else.

I can't blame you for frowning the list, i am not the original creator and i didn't even read my friend's list properly until he came back with a 4-1, where i dropped my disain and made the effort of understanding what happened.

Additionnal testing. I gave the Bonesplitter list to a friend and got destroyed with my giants on turn 2. There was a thing or two to say about my plays but yet....

[Belmail]

22 minutes ago, kozokus said:

Not sure how to answer this  Arrowboys are ok unbuffed but can get murderous with +1 to hit and exploding 6, 
As for the "Not dying" part, it is a mixture of "not beeing in danger" and the rerollable shrug save, which is infamous. To behonest i spent more time moving flying models to objectives and paying CP for Battleshock immunity than anything else.

I can't blame you for frowning the list, i am not the original creator and i didn't even read my friend's list properly until he came back with a 4-1, where i dropped my disain and made the effort of understanding what happened.

Additionnal testing. I gave the Bonesplitter list to a friend and got destroyed with my giants on turn 2. There was a thing or two to say about my plays but yet....

This is my current competitive list, it has been going 2-1 at 3 round tournaments I've been going to. Most people just don't seem to know what to do against bonesplitterz in general so it just seems to give me an edge overall. Hardest challenge so far has been dealing with tzeentch lists.

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Bone Krusha
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Savage Big Boss (90)

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas
20 x Savage Orruks (240)
- Stikkas
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
5 x Savage Boarboys (130)
- Stikkas

Battalions
Kunnin' Rukk (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 230
 

[Warbossironteef]

On 12/22/2020 at 3:31 PM, Belmail said:

This is my current competitive list, it has been going 2-1 at 3 round tournaments I've been going to. Most people just don't seem to know what to do against bonesplitterz in general so it just seems to give me an edge overall. Hardest challenge so far has been dealing with tzeentch lists.

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Bone Krusha
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Savage Big Boss (90)

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas
20 x Savage Orruks (240)
- Stikkas
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
5 x Savage Boarboys (130)
- Stikkas

Battalions
Kunnin' Rukk (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 230
 

Nice list with lost of wounds. With that many arrowboys I cant help but think the Maniak Weirdnob would be better than the 2nd Prophet. I'd also consider splitting up the 20xSavage Orruks into 2x10 man. They still fit in the battalion but allow you to use them for objective siting, backfield screening, sitting in gnowholes, etc. Your buffs are going to be going on the 30 man unit and arrowboyz so I would think 2x10 man units to spread across the board would be much better for you. Just my thoughts.

[Belmail]

5 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

Nice list with lost of wounds. With that many arrowboys I cant help but think the Maniak Weirdnob would be better than the 2nd Prophet. I'd also consider splitting up the 20xSavage Orruks into 2x10 man. They still fit in the battalion but allow you to use them for objective siting, backfield screening, sitting in gnowholes, etc. Your buffs are going to be going on the 30 man unit and arrowboyz so I would think 2x10 man units to spread across the board would be much better for you. Just my thoughts.

I like the 2nd prophet for the extra cast/deny over the weirdnob and the 4+ to generate cps plus he does generate a wagggh point. Half my gameplan is being pretty hard to remove from objectives so the extra cps over time really help my playstyle. That and I dont feel very lucky, I never feel like exploding 6s does much for me.

 

As for the 20 spears I honestly had them bunched together because I am really lazy but you're probably right splitting them into 2x10.