AoS 2 - Bonesplitterz Discussion

[Malakithe]

I have 2 Icebone lists. One with an Idol and one without. Both are very hordy and high wound count.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Icebone
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
Wardokk (80)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280
Rogue Idol (400)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Wounds: 244
 

The Idol has lots of potential as one of the only sources of rend and can be buffed. Hopefully it would see combat where it will make the enemy it smashes wish they were never assembled and painted.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz
- Warclan: Icebone
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Kattanak Pelt
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Wardokk (80)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)
Snaga Rukk (120)
Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 258
 

Slightly more bodies, a bit more wounds, and extra CP and item but otherwise mostly the same 

[Enwolved]

On 11/7/2019 at 4:56 PM, GriinWan said:

Hi @Enwolved!

Battalions totally dont worth it if you want to play competitive on 1000 pts. Bonuses are mediocre and the price is not that low.

Icebone is good (command ability is powerful; battle trait, command ability and artefact are quite useful) if you don`t have many armies with save-after-save abilities in your local meta. If you have - better take Drakkfoot to negate this.

I usually play 2000 format, but if I have to play 1000 with boars limit I take the following:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Bonesplitterz

Leaders
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry

Battleline
10 x Savage Boarboys (260)
- Stikkas
10 x Savage Boarboys (260)
- Stikkas
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 101

Not sure about the spells, probably it would be better to have Brutal Beasts on wardokk instead of War Cry.

You can make one pack of Boarboys 4+ rr1 save (Wardokk + mystic shield) to act as an anvil or a pretty good screen. If take Brutal Beasts instead of War Cry - make one unit hit with +1 and generate two hits on unmodified 6 (Brutal Beasts and Bone Spirit spells).  Breath of Gorkamorka to have an incredible 24 move with flying boars (and charge after it of cause or run to get onto objective if needed).

Probably should divide one pack of boarboys on two 5-man squads. 10-man is a good amount of attack with bonus for charge, 5-man squads give you more mobility.

Set of spells depends on how you play and what you need more for your plans. My go-to spells that I usually take on 2000 format: 

1) Breath of Gorkamorka on Maniak Weirdnob - having 24 move + fly on boars often make me games or at least create great problems for opponent. 10 inch + run foot boys also perform good. Weirdnob because of mobility and opportunity to reroll cast.

2) Gorkamorka`s WarCry - opportunity to make enemy unit fight last in combat phase is important, especially when playing against Slaanesh (don`t know if you have this one in your meta)

3) Kunnin Beast Spirits - If you take it to Wardokk (or take this spell + Wardokk, don`t really matters) it is probably +2 save on one of your units and it is makes it pretty tough (especially units with shields in melee). Boarboys in 3+ combat save with rr1 for Mystic Shield or CP looks good.

4) Brutal Beast Spirits - +1 hit, run, charge is always nice, but not mandatory. Is taken to maximize units` attack potential, another attack buff is Bone Spirit spell from Maniak Weirdnob warscroll,

 

On 11/7/2019 at 10:51 AM, Enwolved said:

I already bought some boxes of boarboyz, but didnt start to build them yet.

Magnetize it if you have an opportunity, you would get great flexibility in army composition.

Thank you @GriinWan for taking the time! Its much appreciated! 

So I think will try to go for the 1000p list you suggested, seems pretty good to me. 
I will just try out the spells, but I think I will go for +1 save and +1 hit spells then. Not sure if I really need the movement bonus, although its nice to have of course. Not experienced enough to judge that of course.

Really not sure if I should take the clan for 1000p though. The trait is pretty much wasted. I could take the wardokk as general though, take Icebone clan and give him another trait because the trait is only mandatory, if the weirdnob is the general, right?

For 2000p this is the list I came up with, cause I really like the Rogue Idol model and its pretty easy to expand like that from 1000p. It doenst have to be a tournament list, but I think I can still do sth with them. 

Just realized that I forgot to pick the trait, but I will go for "Fuelled by the spirits" to have an extra spell. 
Not sure about the endless spells, they might not be worth it.

I know the Thermalrider Cloak on the Big Boss might not be the best, but I want to put him on a boar as well, because it looks cool and then he will be able to keep up with them, having 9'' movement.
My thought was that he can fight first and then let a big unit of boars fight right after him with his ability.

 

Spoiler

 

llegiance: Bonesplitterz

- Mortal Realm: Aqshy - Warclan: Icebone

LEADERS

Savage Big Boss (100)

- Artefact : Thermalrider Cloak

Wurrgog Prophet (160)

- General
- Lore of the Savage Beast : Gorkamorka's War Cry

Maniak Weirdnob (120)

- Artefact : Kattanak Pelt
- Lore of the Savage Beast : Brutal Beast Spirits

Wardokk (80)

- Lore of the Savage Beast : Breath of Gorkamorka

Wardokk (80)

UNITS

10 x Savage Boarboys (260)

- Stikkas

10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280) 5 x Savage Boarboys (130)

- Chompas

5 x Savage Boarboys (130)

- Chompas

BEHEMOTHS

Rogue Idol (400)

BATTALIONS

Brutal Rukk (140)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Balewind Vortex (40) Prismatic Palisade (30) Extra Command Point (50)

Porkbikes Enwolved

TOTAL: 2000/2000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 2 WOUNDS: 135

 

 

[5kaven5lave]

12 hours ago, Enwolved said:

Porkbikes Enwolved

This is all we need to hear about this list. 

[Sralo]

Looks like we saw the first top finish result for the bonesplitterz via Ben Savva, 2nd place with 3-0, does anyone know what he was running list wise? War in the Mortal Realms event by the looks. 

[PlasticCraic]

1 hour ago, Sralo said:

Looks like we saw the first top finish result for the bonesplitterz via Ben Savva, 2nd place with 3-0, does anyone know what he was running list wise? War in the Mortal Realms event by the looks. 

I believe Ben is running a Kunnin Rukk and Kopp Rukk in Bonegrinz.  Rationale for the Kopp Rukk being to bundle your Wardokks into a Battalion, and get your drops right down (with minimum 2x 10 Morrboys).

[hurben]

6 hours ago, Sralo said:

Looks like we saw the first top finish result for the bonesplitterz via Ben Savva, 2nd place with 3-0, does anyone know what he was running list wise? War in the Mortal Realms event by the looks. 

Could you link us the result our your source ?  

[Sralo]

6 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I believe Ben is running a Kunnin Rukk and Kopp Rukk in Bonegrinz.  Rationale for the Kopp Rukk being to bundle your Wardokks into a Battalion, and get your drops right down (with minimum 2x 10 Morrboys).

Thanks for that. I have been playing around with kopp rukk in drakkfoot, without it I struggle to be anything lower than 6 or 7 drops, so nice to see it is not quite the crazy idea I thought it was. 
 

1 hour ago, hurben said:

Could you link us the result our your source ?  

I spotted the result here:
https://tabletop.to/war-in-the-mortal-realms-x

[Zappgrot]

I just had my first tournament experiance whit the bonesplitters. 

It was just 750 points and it turned out on the day that it became a doubels tournament because there where to many participants.

The list I took was

20 Arrer boyz

20 Sticka's

5 Maniaks

1 Maniak wierdnob (+1 spell +1 to cast)  (brutal beast spirits+breath)

 

What I was pleasendly supprised by is how good bonesplitters are at takeing and holding objectives.

The insane amount of wounds makes them hard to shift. And the breath of gorka morka spell allowed me to just fly som boars over to an objective late game.

I won all my games even if nearly all of the ladz died.  They didn't do all that much damage (except for shooting monsters) but just refused to shift. Allowing me to score so many points in the early game that even in the last few turns (whit almost my entire army dead) my opponents could not catch up. 

 

 

[Gobsmakka]

I have recently made a video on Youtube that I think would be relevant to people in this  thread, but I will post the key data below.

Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGt-UtIg5ws

Basically I have built a  simulator that can pit AOS units against each other to fight it out thousands (or millions) of times. I use this to derive victory probabilities through simulation instead of only looking at offensive output and defensive resiliency metrics. The simulator handles all battleshock, special rules, battlefield layout, pile-ins, etc. This is so things like base-size and weapon reach can factor in appropriately. For example, you could put on actual numerical value on how much better 32mm bases or compared to 40mm from a unit-to-unit combat perspective with this approach.

The relevant tables I'd like to share here compare the the combats of Savage Orruks with Stikkas and Chompas, and Morboys in unit sizes of 10, 20, 30. While my simulator does support different starting geometries for the combat, I've standardized on a flat layout with a combat frontage width of 320mm for all simulations used to derive the data shown below. To read and interpret the data in the table below, for each row (e.g. 30 stikkas) a unit of that size and composition in its ideal configuration (proper number of banners, leaders, shields, special weapons at the front line, etc.) has a >50% chance to defeat a unit of X number of models of the unit configuration type specified in each column. So for example, 30 Stikkas has a >50% chance to kill a hypothetical unit of 35 chompas, 35 morboys, but only 27 morboys if an enemy monster has been killed. 

	Stikkas	Chompas	Morboys	Morboys*
30 Stikkas		35	35	27
30 Chompas	25		27	22
30 Morboys	26	32		23
30 Morboys*	32	41	38

* = enemy monster killed

 

Similar data for unit size 20:

	Stikkas	Chompas	Morboys	Morboys*
20 Stikkas		21	19	16
20 Chompas	19		18	15
20 Morboys	20	21		16
20 Morboys*	23	26	25

 

and unit size 10:

	Stikkas	Chompas	Morboys	Morboys*
10 Stikkas		8	7	7
10 Chompas	11		9	8
10 Morboys	12	10		9
10 Morboys*	14	13	12

 

So you can see that in unit sizes of 30, the Stikkas are a pretty clear winner, especially for the points. Unit sizes of 20 is a pretty even matchup against the three, but the Morboys have a nice benefit of dominating if an enemy monster is killed. At unit sizes of 10 the morboys take it easily. There isn't much good news for the poor chompas unless you are needing to fill out a battleline requirement for a small unit and you're not Bonesplitterz allegiance. 

[broche]

super cool @Gobsmakka 

did you do other simulation?

[5kaven5lave]

Is anyone running Savage Big Bosses outside of the Rukks they’re required for?

Mine is doing very little in my list at the moment.

[Warbossironteef]

Do you think Kunnin Ruk and Idol has legs? I was thinking something like the below in Icebone. You could use Morboys instead of Savage Orruks but it does keep your drop a little lower. You screen with your Orruks and try to get the most out of your Kunnin Ruk and then your Idol is counter charge and Boarboys are objective grabbers/backfield threat. The biggest questions for me are, is the Rogue Idol worth it? Should the Wurrgog just be 2 more Wardokks? 

Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
Savage Big Boss (100)
Wardokk (80)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
20 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (240)
10 x Savage Orruks  (or Morboys)  (120)
- Chompas
10 x Savage Orruks (or Morboys)  (120)
- Chompas
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)
BEHEMOTHS
Rogue Idol (400)
BATTALIONS
Kunnin' Rukk (140)
TOTAL: 2000/2000

[Gobsmakka]

11 hours ago, broche said:

super cool @Gobsmakka 

did you do other simulation?

I'm not quite sure exactly what your asking, whether in regards to if I have done some other previously mentioned simulation or if I have attempted to simulate any other units with my engine currently. I currently just have these bonesplitters, ardboys, and stormcast liberators in there and I have tried all combinations of those. I am currently working on improving my engine to support oval bases but once I do I plan to run similar simulations against the boar options in a charged/not charged situation.

[broche]

55 minutes ago, Gobsmakka said:

I currently just have these bonesplitters, ardboys, and stormcast liberators in there and I have tried all combinations of those. I am currently working on improving my engine to support oval bases but once I do I plan to run similar simulations against the boar options in a charged/not charged situation.

That was my question  

[umpac]

18 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

Do you think Kunnin Ruk and Idol has legs? I was thinking something like the below in Icebone. You could use Morboys instead of Savage Orruks but it does keep your drop a little lower. You screen with your Orruks and try to get the most out of your Kunnin Ruk and then your Idol is counter charge and Boarboys are objective grabbers/backfield threat. The biggest questions for me are, is the Rogue Idol worth it? Should the Wurrgog just be 2 more Wardokks? 

There was a Drakkfoot BSZ army running double Idol and an allied Warchanter (can still buff Idols since they have IJ tags) and kunnin rukk in a recent US tourny. Went 4-1 in a VERY competitive environment.

[cplhicks]

I had a buddy go to that tournament watch the double Idol list guy play.  We've been talking about it in my group and I am very intrigued to say the least.  I've been thinking about a Big WAAGH version myself as the Idol loves the BW buffs.  I just got my first Idol and could be convinced to buy another lololol. 

Makes painting 2000pts sooo much easier if half of it is just a Mech Standard Grey, wash Agrax and drybrush Stonewall lol. 

[GriinWan]

5 hours ago, umpac said:

There was a Drakkfoot BSZ army running double Idol and an allied Warchanter (can still buff Idols since they have IJ tags) and kunnin rukk in a recent US tourny.

Can you share the list or link to it please?

[broche]

On 11/12/2019 at 6:57 AM, 5kaven5lave said:

Is anyone running Savage Big Bosses outside of the Rukks they’re required for?

So far he never make the cut for me. Iguess he is fine, but with all he good spell we have he would be the fifth character... 

[cplhicks]

2 hours ago, GriinWan said:

Can you share the list or link to it please?

Here you go!

[Skabnoze]

On 11/8/2019 at 4:43 PM, GriinWan said:

@Zappgrot Idol has both Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz keywords now.

I was always a bit lukewarm on the Rogue Idol previously.  I love all big stompy things and the Rogue Idol was never a bad monster - but he just fit oddly into any army I previously had for his cost.  That said, I love the concept behind the Idol.

He changed very little aside from gaining the orruk, ironjaw, and bonesplitterz keywords but those allegiances changed in a number of significant ways and now the Idol is fully a part of every allegiance in the Warclans book.  That has a significant impact on him.  It goes to show you the simple power of keywords in the way that AoS is now designed.

I don’t think the Idol is the best unit available to Warclans but he is now by far my favorite.  Stand alone units that don’t have much need or ability to get outside boosts or alterations are fine, but I personally enjoy units that can be altered or changed by army construction and outside abilities and the Rogue Idol is the single unit available to Warclans that can both give and receive abilities from all parts of the book and even from allies.

There is a lot of very interesting and fun stuff to do with him no matter what portion of the Warclans book you are using and so I find myself constantly thinking about including him now - and often in multiples.

[Zappgrot]

4 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I was always a bit lukewarm on the Rogue Idol previously.  I love all big stompy things and the Rogue Idol was never a bad monster - but he just fit oddly into any army I previously had for his cost.  That said, I love the concept behind the Idol.

He changed very little aside from gaining the orruk, ironjaw, and bonesplitterz keywords but those allegiances changed in a number of significant ways and now the Idol is fully a part of every allegiance in the Warclans book.  That has a significant impact on him.  It goes to show you the simple power of keywords in the way that AoS is now designed.

I don’t think the Idol is the best unit available to Warclans but he is now by far my favorite.  Stand alone units that don’t have much need or ability to get outside boosts or alterations are fine, but I personally enjoy units that can be altered or changed by army construction and outside abilities and the Rogue Idol is the single unit available to Warclans that can both give and receive abilities from all parts of the book and even from allies.

There is a lot of very interesting and fun stuff to do with him no matter what portion of the Warclans book you are using and so I find myself constantly thinking about including him now - and often in multiples.

I think the two keyword make him much much more of a thread. Now he benifts form the bigwaaagh . And can be effected by bonsplitter spells and get +1 dammge from the warchanter. That is a serrius ammount of buffs that can be stacked on something big. 

[PlasticCraic]

And he can benefit from Mighty D too, if you build in access to that from your General (Brutish Cunning) or an Ironfist, which doubles the benefit of all your other buffs.

So if he's got extra damage from the Warchanter, you can get it in the Hero phase pile in as well as the Combat phase.

Or if you use it to move him instead, and you have cast Breath of Gork, he's on a 20" flying move...twice.  So that's a 40" total flying move in one turn 

Even the Orruk keyword plays its part, because he gets the 6++ aftersave and +1" to charge. 

He really is awesome in Big Waaagh.

[Neomaxim]

Dude... Big Waaagh is awesome in Big Waaagh.  I'm not disagreeing with you, more doubling down on how crazy good I think that Allegiance is going to be over time, period!  🙂

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Neomaxim said:

Dude... Big Waaagh is awesome in Big Waaagh.  I'm not disagreeing with you, more doubling down on how crazy good I think that Allegiance is going to be over time, period!  🙂

I feel that all 3 allegiances are good and have their selling points.  It depends upon what you want to do with an army list as to which allegiance in the book you will choose.  In regards to purely bonesplitterz I feel that both the Big Waaagh and the Bonesplitterz allegiance offer good tools and allow for more diverse army builds - which is a good thing.

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah it's such a good spot to be in if you already collected both armies, which a lot of us do.  I'm finding Big Waaagh so much fun currently that I'm struggling to use any other Allegiance, but I'm really enjoying list building for Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz.