Rock Lobster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 MY LIST IS DA BEST! All right you lot, Christmas exercise for you all. 2018 has seen the release of AOS 2 and important clarifying FAQs. Many of us have played a lot of games and some tournaments. Looking at the statistics for tournaments there are a lot of Ironjawz players and we have yet to crack a top 3 spot in a tournament and have rarely cracked a top 10 (and I am 1 of those top 10 finishes) https://thehonestwargamer.com/age-of-sigmar-stats-dec-3rd-2018/ Now I don't think we are capable without incredible luck of breaking the top bracket given the fundamental flaw in our army compared to the top tier armies, but I thought it might be worth getting a quick round of what each of us feels are the top tournament lists and why (also what its weakness is). Then using likes of posts we can vote for the lists we like and have a ranking of what we believe are some of the top lists for people to try. I'll kick off with a post after this one with my current list thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 MY LIST IS DA BEST! Name: Bodies, Bravery and Bashiness IronJawz – Hysh Megaboss on Maw Krusha – Prophet of the Waaagh and Mirrored Cuirass Warchanter – Aetherquartz Broach Warchanter – Boss Stikka 20 ardboyz – Big Choppas 20 ardboyz – Big Choppas 5 brutes – claw, gore choppa and two brute choppas 3 gore gruntas – pig iron choppas 3 gore gruntas – pig iron choppas Ironfist Bloodtoofs 2000 on the nose Drops: 1 Command Points: 2 Wounds: 151 Why this list is good: 1. 1 drop – you can almost always go second and potentially secure a turn 1 charge if the opponent gets too close, or the possibility of a double turn. 2. Look at the wound count, that is a lot of wounds with a 4+ save to chew through and hold objectives. 20 Ardboyz have 33% more wounds than 10 Brutes but suffer more from morale, except than… 3. Extra durability through bravery, those 2 big 20 man arboyz units don’t run easily, at bravery 9 with the bloodtoofs and boss stikka they will grind it out with opponents and force them to extract every wound there 4. Punchy – first turn you will already have 3 command points, with aetherquartz broach you can burn those 3 on a big waaagh and get 1 back on average, also with prophet of the waaagh you will likely get 4 attacks from those 3 waaaghs. If you are fighting turn 2 and turn 3 (not turn 1) you will likely be able to get 4 attacks both turns and mincemeat your opponent. 20 Ardboyz backed by a warchanter are as choppy as 10 brutes base – each Waaagh increases their effectiveness beyond the brutes. 5. The army is moderately fast. The ardboyz will get +4 to charge with their banner and the ironfist move, assuming an average charge roll that is a decent 16” – 21” threat range for charges, since I only consider a roll of 5” for a charge reliable I call that 14” – 19” subject to ironfist roll. Weaknesses: 1. I sacrificed all magic and potential cogs movement for bodies and the mega battalion – making the army potentially slower and at risk to magic. 2. Only 1 character provides a Waaagh, if he goes down then a lot of power in the list is lost – play more cagey with him 3. For the extra Waaagh power I sacrificed ironclad on the megaboss for prophet of the waaagh, this could be the difference between life and death in certain circumstances, but also it nets him an average of 3 extra attacks a game for all units which feels worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew G Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said: MY LIST IS DA BEST! Name: Bodies, Bravery and Bashiness IronJawz – Hysh Megaboss on Maw Krusha – Prophet of the Waaagh and Mirrored Cuirass Warchanter – Aetherquartz Broach Warchanter – Boss Stikka 20 ardboyz – Big Choppas 20 ardboyz – Big Choppas 5 brutes – claw, gore choppa and two brute choppas 3 gore gruntas – pig iron choppas 3 gore gruntas – pig iron choppas Ironfist Bloodtoofs 2000 on the nose Drops: 1 Command Points: 2 Wounds: 151 Pretty much exactly the same as my Bloodtoofs list I posted a few months ago. The only difference is I run 2x5 brutes and 1 unit of 30 'ardboyz, everything else is EXACTLY the same. I definitely feel that something approximating this is the strongest Bloodtoofs list available at the moment. I'm still a fan of my Gorefist list, and feel like it's stronger than Bloodtoofs, but I completely understand why someone wouldn't want to shell out for 7 boxs of gruntas and this list is a really solid alternative. edited* for page stretch Edited December 19, 2018 by Andrew G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Andrew G said: Pretty much exactly the same as my Bloodtoofs list I posted a few months ago. The only difference is I run 2x5 brutes and 1 unit of 30 'ardboyz, everything else is EXACTLY the same. I definitely feel that something approximating this is the strongest Bloodtoofs list available at the moment. I'm still a fan of my Gorefist list, and feel like it's stronger than Bloodtoofs, but I completely understand why someone wouldn't want to shell out for 7 boxs of gruntas and this list is a really solid alternative. edited* for page stretch Post em up and let the green people vote, it will be a great resource for other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew G Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, Rock Lobster said: Post em up and let the green people vote, it will be a great resource for other players. I already did here, do you mean on honest wargamer? I'll consider doing a write-up, I feel like a lot people don't understand how to play gorefist properly and just think "Oh, it's 1 trick alphastrike. No big deal". When the reality of it is I'm committing my Waaghs and hammers T2 against good players 90% of the time. Edited December 19, 2018 by Andrew G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Just now, Andrew G said: I already did here, do you mean on honest wargamer? No sorry, I just meant repeat them again here so they are easily accessible in quick succession rather than people digging back through. When they are collated and people have said which they like I will post them all in a new thread as a resource with credit to the writer of each list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew G Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 On 10/25/2018 at 1:09 PM, Andrew G said: Here's the 3 I've been playing @broche. Sorry for the page stretch, couldn't figure out how to get spoilers to work. Allegiance: DestructionMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! - Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)Gorefist (190)Total: 1850 / 2000Extra Command Points: 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 137 -------------------------------------------------------------- Allegiance: DestructionMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! - Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Warchanter (80)20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)Ardfist (170)Total: 1890 / 2000Extra Command Points: 3Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 166 --------------------------------------------------------------- Allegiance: DestructionMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! - Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)Bloodtoofs (120)Ironfist (180)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 146 Here you go. Not much has changed on any of them since late October. I have experimented with swapping a Warchanter out for a Fungoid w/ realm rules becoming more common place, but I'm still not convinced it's worth it with Sacrement being so popular. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Andrew G said: Here you go. Not much has changed on any of them since late October. I have experimented with swapping a Warchanter out for a Fungoid w/ realm rules becoming more common place, but I'm still not convinced it's worth it with Sacrement being so popular. I put a vote in for list 1 here. List 2 is too easily crippled by the loss of the warchanter I feel. List 3 is very strong, but I prefer my own which is really similar out of personal preference that I like the 2 medium units verses the 1 large unit for flexibility and maximizing attacks in 2 places. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew G Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said: I put a vote in for list 1 here. List 2 is too easily crippled by the loss of the warchanter I feel. List 3 is very strong, but I prefer my own which is really similar out of personal preference that I like the 2 medium units verses the 1 large unit for flexibility and maximizing attacks in 2 places. Definitely the major weakness of the list, but if you have a good LOS blocking terrain and can keep him alive until T3 it's an easy 300+ points of 'ardboyz back on the table. It hits just hard as the other two lists, and can still reliably engage T2 even without the Ironfist/BT speed boosts. I honestly feel like the bloodtoofs list is actually the weakest of the 3, but it's so match-up dependent it's hard to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 @Rock Lobster really good list! I think 2 x 20 ardboys is currently a stapple. I'm actually toying with something similar, yet a bit different: Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Trait: Ironclad - Artefact: Daubing of Mork Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Warchanter (80)Zarbag (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Brutes (360)- Pair of Brute Choppas3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)- Pig-iron Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (180)- Pair of Brute ChoppasIronfist (180)Total: 1940 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 131 1. Daubing over Cuirass. Minor change YMMV. Personnaly I prefer daubing , as I prefer 3 extra wound than 6 extra conditionnal wound. 2. No bloodtooth. Extra point are keep for extra CP. This should let you have triumph about half of the game. 3. Less ardboys/gruntas, more brutes. This is probably strictly worse, but Brutes are so great looking and fun to paint. Ironfist compensate for their low move. They still have some advantage over ardboys (less dependant on warchanter buff, to hit reroll, some rend 2 output, and better strenght per area) 4. Zarbag: Give a wizard for mystic shield or potential realm spell (like inferno blade). But more importantly, the Gitz give you access to a super cheap sreen, a a single fanatic (huge agains DoK, Stormcast and Idoneth for exemple). Also the single netter can any some big model with his -1 to hit. That is one of the argument that can make brutes worthwile. Brutes are great if they attack first, so they need to be screen from big hitter during your opponent turn and gitz give you that option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) Personally I think we have 3 potential lists which can get near top tables depending on how reliable you want it to be. Some variation on my Chrimbobo Weirdfist Spoiler Allegiance: IronjawzLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Battleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsWeirdfist (180)Endless SpellsBalewind Vortex (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 129 Huge swing potential from the Weirdfist. This alone means that you will occasionally just win an otherwise unbeatable opponent, I don't care how hard Nagash is to kill if you Foot of Gork him for 40+ mortal wounds he's dead. Three strong Scorers. Both Cabbages have an artefact and the weirdnob is a wizard, this means you can easily score those objectives which require them and it's going to be hard to stop you. Mobility and threat range. All 3 parts of your army have a massive potential threat range, the Cabbages are move 12" and the weirdfist+balewind will hit 36" pretty reliably. 3 drops, you aren't fighting for the 1drop but you beat basically everything else. Some form of Gorefist Spoiler Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Orruk Megaboss (140)- Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)- AlliesBattleline6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsGorefist (190)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 80 / 400Wounds: 145 Again it's a low drop count at 4. 3 Scoring heroes all of which are difficult to remove. A ton of wounds to get on objectives and pin your opponents in their deployment zone while you score. Amazing mobility. Some form of Ardfist Spoiler Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersOrruk Megaboss (140)- General- Trait: Brutish Cunning - Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Ignax's Scales Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)- AlliesBattleline30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)BattalionsArdfist (170)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 80 / 400Wounds: 203 4 Drops A massive quantity of wounds and bodies to put on objectives. 4 Scoring heroes. Ardfist summoning Shenanigans. Summary So there's three obvious themes running through each of these lists which should give you an idea on what I think is Important. First is the 3/4 drop count, I don't think it's worth us competing for the 1 drop, it's to expensive and restrictive, however most lists are going to be 1/6/10 drops, this firmly lets us choose first/second against anything but lists specifically designed to take it. The second crucial thing for me is the three scoring heroes, this gives us a lot of flexibility over how we can score for those scenarios which require them. It prevents a successful hero snipe from losing us the game and with battalions and the option for a Fungoid ally I think there is no reason not to hit at least 3. Not attempting kill the opponent with Combat. Simple fact is we can't, as an allegiance we don't fight equally against the other lists which are dominating top tables at the moment, we simply aren't cost effective enough. End result here is going for a more objective focus to the game. Edited December 19, 2018 by Malakree 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, broche said: @Rock Lobster really good list! I think 2 x 20 ardboys is currently a stapple. I'm actually toying with something similar, yet a bit different: Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Trait: Ironclad - Artefact: Daubing of Mork Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Warchanter (80)Zarbag (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Brutes (360)- Pair of Brute Choppas3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)- Pig-iron Choppas5 x Orruk Brutes (180)- Pair of Brute ChoppasIronfist (180)Total: 1940 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 131 1. Daubing over Cuirass. Minor change YMMV. Personnaly I prefer daubing , as I prefer 3 extra wound than 6 extra conditionnal wound. 2. No bloodtooth. Extra point are keep for extra CP. This should let you have triumph about half of the game. 3. Less ardboys/gruntas, more brutes. This is probably strictly worse, but Brutes are so great looking and fun to paint. Ironfist compensate for their low move. They still have some advantage over ardboys (less dependant on warchanter buff, to hit reroll, some rend 2 output, and better strength per area) 4. Zarbag: Give a wizard for mystic shield or potential realm spell (like inferno blade). But more importantly, the Gitz give you access to a super cheap sreen, a a single fanatic (huge agains DoK, Stormcast and Idoneth for exemple). Also the single netter can any some big model with his -1 to hit. That is one of the argument that can make brutes worthwile. Brutes are great if they attack first, so they need to be screen from big hitter during your opponent turn and gitz give you that option. If you like the list dont forget to give it a like otherwise I wont be able to track favorites. I think you might be onto something in the daubing. I am biased towards the reflecting of mortal wounds from the mirrored cuirass after I kept my mawkrusha alive and killed durthu in a tournament in his final turn (I was done) when both durthu and my Maw krusha were down to 2 wounds each and he hit me with 2 mortals for the magic double 6. It turned a 14-6 win into a 20-0 owing to my position on the objective and forever now has earned its place. I like the creativity of the list and it could suprise people, with zarbags gang there the charge stopping of the fanatic is a big sell to me. However I think the list feels a little light on something extra with less speed, bodies and hitting power than previous lists. Maybe cogs would be a great compliment to Zarbag and would make this a very fast list, but it feels like unless you could find 50 points for the extra command point from somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Malakree said: Personally I think we have 3 potential lists which can get near top tables depending on how reliable you want it to be. Some variation on my Chrimbobo Weirdfist Hide contents Allegiance: IronjawzLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Battleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsWeirdfist (180)Endless SpellsBalewind Vortex (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 129 Huge swing potential from the Weirdfist. This alone means that you will occasionally just win an otherwise unbeatable opponent, I don't care how hard Nagash is to kill if you Foot of Gork him for 40+ mortal wounds he's dead. Three strong Scorers. Both Cabbages have an artefact and the weirdnob is a wizard, this means you can easily score those objectives which require them and it's going to be hard to stop you. Mobility and threat range. All 3 parts of your army have a massive potential threat range, the Cabbages are move 12" and the weirdfist+balewind will hit 36" pretty reliably. 3 drops, you aren't fighting for the 1drop but you beat basically everything else. Some form of Gorefist Again it's a low drop count at 4. 3 Scoring heroes all of which are difficult to remove. A ton of wounds to get on objectives and pin your opponents in their deployment zone while you score. Amazing mobility. Some form of Ardfist Hide contents Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: AqshyLeadersOrruk Megaboss (140)- General- Trait: Brutish Cunning - Artefact: Thermalrider Cloak Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Ignax's Scales Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)- AlliesBattleline30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)20 x Orruk Ardboys (320)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)BattalionsArdfist (170)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 80 / 400Wounds: 203 4 Drops A massive quantity of wounds and bodies to put on objectives. 4 Scoring heroes. Ardfist summoning Shenanigans. Summary So there's three obvious themes running through each of these lists which should give you an idea on what I think is Important. First is the 3/4 drop count, I don't think it's worth us competing for the 1 drop, it's to expensive and restrictive, however most lists are going to be 1/6/10 drops, this firmly lets us choose first/second against anything but lists specifically designed to take it. The second crucial thing for me is the three scoring heroes, this gives us a lot of flexibility over how we can score for those scenarios which require them. It prevents a successful hero snipe from losing us the game and with battalions and the option for a Fungoid ally I think there is no reason not to hit at least 3. Not attempting kill the opponent with Combat. Simple fact is we can't, as an allegiance we don't fight equally against the other lists which are dominating top tables at the moment, we simply aren't cost effective enough. End result here is going for a more objective focus to the game. The like here is for lists 1 and 3. 1 is an interesting take on a very different ironjawz list. It has the same weakness as the Ardfist in that the wierdnob dies and its curtains for the whole battalions benefit, but slightly more risky as you can need line of site so have to be out there and it requires your units to group together. I dont think it is in the same bracket as the other lists to be honest as it is so situational and against a list like nagash or tzeetch they will dispell you all day unless you are well positioned to outrange their dispell and lucky on your wierdfist rolls, but I like that it punches hard still with the 2 maw krushas so wins my vote for top wierdfist so far. For the ardboyz list I am torn between yours and @Andrew G , both solid lists. I think I might like yours better though as the wound count is insane and that is a lot of scoring heroes, albeit with less potential for waaagh. It also wins the award for worst list to model and paint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said: The like here is for lists 1 and 3. 1 is an interesting take on a very different ironjawz list. It has the same weakness as the Ardfist in that the wierdnob dies and its curtains for the whole battalions benefit, but slightly more risky as you can need line of site so have to be out there and it requires your units to group together. I dont think it is in the same bracket as the other lists to be honest as it is so situational and against a list like nagash or tzeetch they will dispell you all day unless you are well positioned to outrange their dispell and lucky on your wierdfist rolls, but I like that it punches hard still with the 2 maw krushas so wins my vote for top wierdfist so far. For the ardboyz list I am torn between yours and @Andrew G , both solid lists. I think I might like yours better though as the wound count is insane and that is a lot of scoring heroes, albeit with less potential for waaagh. It also wins the award for worst list to model and paint! It doesn't actually require that much luck for the range. Foot is 18" + 6" from the balewind for 24" then you need 2 range increases to get your 36" which is out of unbind range, your average roll will actually put it at 42" (3/3) which is easily enough. Even if your opponent does snipe it you have 2 Cabbages which aren't being targeted while the rest of the weirdfist is still 36 models and a ton of wounds for objectives. The big thing is the 3 scoring heroes with this being one of the better ways to get it and have 2 of them be Cabbages. Instead of looking at the Weirdnob as being the central part of the army which everything is focused around it's actually more realistic to see that the Weirdnob as a bonus. Even with the battalion it's only 340 points there, for which you get a 3 drop, a CP and an artefact for your second MK. The ability to sometimes reach out and delete a key threat is actually a bonus rather than the point. Compare it to an equivalent type Ironfist or Ardfist with two scoring cabbages and 3 scoring heroes. The rest of the army essentially becomes worthless, this way you have a solid bunker with which can setup on an objective (or between 2) and then still impact the game in a major way. Don't underestimate how good Green Puke can be when it's 18+2d6" dealing d3+3 mortals to everything on that line. Spoiler LeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)- AlliesFungoid Cave-Shaman (80)- AlliesBattleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsIronfist (180)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 160 / 400Wounds: 131 Spoiler LeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)Orruk Warchanter (80)Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)- AlliesBattleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsArdfist (170)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 80 / 400Wounds: 133 In both of these cases the potential the weirdfist brings far outweighs the potential of the other two battalions. I also don't think anything including an Ironfist is competitive, those lists are focus around the combat phase which, as I said above, is something I believe we lose at. What can a Bloodtoofs realistically do against DoK or IDK, how does it get past the giant regenerating Tarpits of Death. Hence why the three lists I put forward deliberately attempt to sidestep the problem. The Gorefist/Ardfist are designed to do it by being able to Tarpit back and hold objectives, the Weirdfist by reaching past the battleline and taking out a lynchpin. EDIT: Also note that none of my lists use Brutes as they are simply to slow, expensive and vulnerable for the low bodies/wound counts they put on the board. Edited December 19, 2018 by Malakree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew G Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 (edited) Pretty much like everything posted so far. I do think @Malakree undervalues aetherquartz/prophet a little, but don't want rehash an old argument, especially when there's obvious value in the mobility/defensiveness Aqshy brings. IMO Waaagh! is the only thing that makes IJ even remotely playable right now. Like Malakree said, if you compare warscroll to warscroll IJ units just don't cut it compared to some of the top entries in other combat armies. Every unit in IJ is just a Waaagh! platform for me, so I rarely care about the offensive stat line of any of the units. The only thing that really matters is 1. How many wounds per point 2. How mobile is the unit, I'll make up the damage through cutting points for CP w/ the aetherquartz/prophet engine. Unfortunately, cutting points for CP usually means I can't afford a back-up Waaagh source. Footboos requires cloak to be playable IMO, so that kind of takes him off the table with my love of aetherquartz. Banner boss is interesting, but him not being IJ turns me off, if he could carry an artifact he'd be an auto-include in every one of my lists. Anway, good stuff guys. Edited December 19, 2018 by Andrew G 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superninja Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I ran Prophet/Aetherquartz recently with a 1900 point list. Used a cp 1st round for a defensive realm command ability. Turn 2 I used 4 command points for Waaagh!, got 2 back with Aetherquartz, used them for Waagh! as well. So I rolled 6 dice, got one 6, re-rolled the other 5 dice and got no other 6's!!!! WTF! However, I had +7 attacks for my whole army and that pretty much ended it. I certainly like prophet and Mirrored Cuirass and Aetherquartz Brooch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 yeah for me broach is an auto include (prophet is more arguable). With broach you have good odds of reaching +4 attack at the start of the game. You can also spend CP for battleshock and recover them for waaaagh or finish with an extra CP for a charge reroll. Statistically +4 attack is really the sweet spot to ensure you really kill thing (like 30 fury, 40 skeletton, A MK on Nagash, ect.) and trigger smash and bash. Otherwise you risk having the remaining 10 fury shreeding your whole units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Lobster Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 26 minutes ago, Andrew G said: Pretty much like everything posted so far. I do think @Malakree undervalues aetherquartz/prophet a little, but don't want rehash an old argument, especially when there's obvious value in the mobility/defensiveness Aqshy brings. IMO Waaagh! is the only thing that makes IJ even remotely playable right now. Like Malakree said, if you compare warscroll to warscroll IJ units just don't cut it compared to some of the top entries in other combat armies. Every unit in IJ is just a Waaagh! platform for me, so I rarely care about the offensive stat line of any of the units. The only thing that really matters is 1. How many wounds per point 2. How mobile is the unit, I'll make up the damage through cutting points for CP w/ the aetherquartz/prophet engine. Unfortunately, cutting points for CP usually means I can't afford a back-up Waaagh source. Footboos requires cloak to be playable IMO, so that kind of takes him off the table with my love of aetherquartz. Banner boss is interesting, but him not being IJ turns me off, if he could carry an artifact he'd be an auto-include in everyone of my lists. Anway, good stuff guys, I agree, some really solid lists here. The banner boss is potentially interesting as an option if you are looking to drop the mawkrusha entirely since the short range of the megabosses command ability makes it mostly unusable - although I can't think why you would drop the krusha as he is really great. This would be a terrible list, but another flavor for anyone crazy enough to try it. You can get the warboss for his baby waaagh and reroll 1s to wound, 3 warchanters and 3 x 30 man units of ardboyz and a battalion plus 1-2 command points likely. Still use the aetherquarz broach but take brutish cunning on one of the warchanters for that 1 in 3 chance to throw a unit of 30 ardboyz forward to disrupt an enemy charge phase, also probably a boss stikka for bravery help. The warboss is an absolute liability at 6 wounds and 4+, you are not totally knackered if he goes down (especially if you put prophet of the waaagh instead on a warchanter but I think if you are going for a silly list like this, go all in with silly and go for the random pontentially hilarious charge move which can disrupt your opponents plans. Imagine the look on someones face when their whole army is lined up to charge you, you get the 5+ and use 1 block of boys to charge in and pin down the army in an irritating line that doesn't let them maximize combatants, removes all charge bonuses and when one of their units hits you, you spread attacks all the way down the line. The sacrifice of much of that unit could save a battle - so random and silly but amusing nonetheless. Also killing 180 wounds with a 4+ save is soul destroying. Also soul destroying to paint 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaneHobbes Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, Andrew G said: Here you go. Not much has changed on any of them since late October. I have experimented with swapping a Warchanter out for a Fungoid w/ realm rules becoming more common place, but I'm still not convinced it's worth it with Sacrement being so Ugh forum didnt update and didnt see someone mentioned war boss with banner already. Edited December 20, 2018 by ShaneHobbes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaneHobbes Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) So I keep hearing Moonclan get a battletome in the spring and Ironjawz will in the summer. Am I the only one who wanted an orcs and goblin (orruks and grot) consolidated into one battletome like Beasts and Nagash? Theres a lot of synergy with the greenskin races. Also theres the lack of different Ironjawz units. I think only Beastclaw have less. I just dont see GW putting out more than one new model for us anytime soon, even with an updated battletome. Also I saw something that made me start thinking for a change for IJ. It was a mistake but still. Someone thought you could also attack with the free pile in from Mighty Destroyers and that seemed like it would be pretty cool. Not like other armies dont have free attack mechanics. Obviously it could be adjusted if it feels like it would be too OP like only activates on a 6+ even if it's from a megaboss roll or something. But it fits the army and the name. If anyone watches Rerolling Ones on YouTube you probably know what I'm talking about from their Ironjawz vs ironjawz match. Edited December 20, 2018 by ShaneHobbes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broche Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Won a narrow game agains DoK yesterday night (playing total commitment). I let him go first, he pinned the core of my army with 30 fury. Fanatics failed his charge to block them, but it still made him make an unoptimal charge. He killed 3 brutes and 1 gruntas. I managed to kill 12 fury in retaliation with Maw Krusha and brutes. I spent a CP to save the last 2 brutes. Then on my turn i manage to get 4 CP with broach. I retreated some stuff for board coverage, and surged the ardboys foward to kill stuff. I rolled 2 out of 4 sixes for +6 attack total. I figured out that Maw Krusha and remaining brutes would easily wipe the remaining 18 fury (even with the 5++ reroll). My first ardboys cleared another 10 fury squad and killed 3 sister of slauther (out of 10). The other 10 arboys missed their charge on the other 10 fury squad, and were forced to oblitarate 5 harpy instead. But then i was really unluky: the MK and brutes left 1 fury of the big squad left (event with +6 attacks!) He was rolling so good his ward save, his 5+ reroll was looking almost like a 3+ reroll. 10 arboys where then oblitarated by the Sister of Slaugther (god they hit hard) Lukily, i won the roll in round 2. I was force to go first. Since he was starting to miss coverage compare to me, i had no choice to put pressure on the objectives. I retreated the Maw Krusha to protect my right objective, and retreat the 10 brutes to threathen his mostly empty left flank. Luck turn in my favor, as my 2 remaining Pig managed to clear his other 5 harpy holding his right side ojective (3+ save with cover), and my other ardboys left 1 wound on the medusa, but still scored the objectives, puting me 10 points to 2. Then on his turn he managed to take back his 2 objectives and my right one to score 5, but at this point he was lacking board coverage, and we called it off when i won round 3 initiative. 1. At risk of repeating, broach is mandatory. As mentionned, our troop are fair costed at best. The only way you can compete with top army like DoK whose basically every model are undercosted is saturate your unit with attack. +2 attacks won't be enough. If it's enough, good thing, you can reroll charge or take 6 for run roll if you need move. 2. Zarbag gitz performed exactly as expected. The threat of the single fanatic blocking a charge is huge. Even missing the charge, that prevented him to just surge his big block foward. It give you a Kunnin trick we desperatly need. 3. Ardboys still shine. With Ironfist move and +3 to charge, good point per life ratio and decent hitting power, you can't go wrong with Ardboys. 4. Brutes are meh, but Brute boss is amazing. A single brutes boss with couple of CP his a huge threat (far more than 3-4 arboys) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I know it's stupid of me but the new community post has raised my hopes for a combined Gorkamorka battletome. Looking forward to being disappointed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncalledprofanity Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 On 12/19/2018 at 6:56 PM, Rock Lobster said: MY LIST IS DA BEST! Name: Bodies, Bravery and Bashiness IronJawz – Hysh Megaboss on Maw Krusha – Prophet of the Waaagh and Mirrored Cuirass Warchanter – Aetherquartz Broach Warchanter – Boss Stikka 20 ardboyz – Big Choppas 20 ardboyz – Big Choppas 5 brutes – claw, gore choppa and two brute choppas 3 gore gruntas – pig iron choppas 3 gore gruntas – pig iron choppas Ironfist Bloodtoofs 2000 on the nose Drops: 1 Command Points: 2 Wounds: 151 Why this list is good: 1. 1 drop – you can almost always go second and potentially secure a turn 1 charge if the opponent gets too close, or the possibility of a double turn. 2. Look at the wound count, that is a lot of wounds with a 4+ save to chew through and hold objectives. 20 Ardboyz have 33% more wounds than 10 Brutes but suffer more from morale, except than… 3. Extra durability through bravery, those 2 big 20 man arboyz units don’t run easily, at bravery 9 with the bloodtoofs and boss stikka they will grind it out with opponents and force them to extract every wound there 4. Punchy – first turn you will already have 3 command points, with aetherquartz broach you can burn those 3 on a big waaagh and get 1 back on average, also with prophet of the waaagh you will likely get 4 attacks from those 3 waaaghs. If you are fighting turn 2 and turn 3 (not turn 1) you will likely be able to get 4 attacks both turns and mincemeat your opponent. 20 Ardboyz backed by a warchanter are as choppy as 10 brutes base – each Waaagh increases their effectiveness beyond the brutes. 5. The army is moderately fast. The ardboyz will get +4 to charge with their banner and the ironfist move, assuming an average charge roll that is a decent 16” – 21” threat range for charges, since I only consider a roll of 5” for a charge reliable I call that 14” – 19” subject to ironfist roll. Weaknesses: 1. I sacrificed all magic and potential cogs movement for bodies and the mega battalion – making the army potentially slower and at risk to magic. 2. Only 1 character provides a Waaagh, if he goes down then a lot of power in the list is lost – play more cagey with him 3. For the extra Waaagh power I sacrificed ironclad on the megaboss for prophet of the waaagh, this could be the difference between life and death in certain circumstances, but also it nets him an average of 3 extra attacks a game for all units which feels worth it. Can you explain how this list is a 1 drop? The two warchanter cannot be part of any of the battalion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, uncalledprofanity said: Can you explain how this list is a 1 drop? The two warchanter cannot be part of any of the battalion. The Megabattalions (Bloodtoofs and Ironsunz) specifically say "any other Ironjawz units" hence if you are entirely Ironjawz it's a 1 drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncalledprofanity Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Malakree said: The Megabattalions (Bloodtoofs and Ironsunz) specifically say "any other Ironjawz units" hence if you are entirely Ironjawz it's a 1 drop. Thanks, have to stop trusting battlescribe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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