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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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2 hours ago, Jgroover said:

I just got my generals handbook and as far as I can see there is nothing in there limiting use of command abilities. It really seems like we can waaagh as many times as we want from the same megaboss and have them stack. I feel like I have to be missing something or this game is going to be insane. 

They specifically made errata for some warscrolls and command abilities so that they cannot stack.  This mainly seems to be the command abilities that allow a unit to immediately fight an extra combat like the Wurrgog Prophet or the Slaughter Queen.  So if a warscroll was not updated with that restriction then it is currently fair game assuming that the GHB has no restriction.

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4 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

They specifically made errata for some warscrolls and command abilities so that they cannot stack.  This mainly seems to be the command abilities that allow a unit to immediately fight an extra combat like the Wurrgog Prophet or the Slaughter Queen.  So if a warscroll was not updated with that restriction then it is currently fair game assuming that the GHB has no restriction.

Thats awesome, kind of a relative buff for us compared with armies that got their command abilities limited. 

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3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Well I said the Ardfist was going to be useless even with the points reductions and the FAQ put he final nail in the coffin...now their only use will be objective holder and numbers for the Shaman 

Bonesplitterz better for Shaman now. Same numbers, but lower points

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3 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

So if a warscroll was not updated with that restriction then it is currently fair game assuming that the GHB has no restriction.

1

Am I the only one who thinks that this will break competitive AoS  till there is a fix for that? 

There is so much space to abuse and twist the rules to make it absolutely ridiculous. Just like the example of the 16 damage Grot Speers or similar stuff. 

I think most of us expected some sort of limitations for Command Abilities for matched play as most people knew about the possible broken combinations.

It really can't be fun for the enemy to get charged by a single Megaboss spamming 4-5 times Waaagh onto near units just to get blown up by Smashin & Bashin. And that is just the possible abuse I can think of with my small Orruk brain.

Jeez.

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7 minutes ago, DerZauberer said:

Am I the only one who thinks that this will break competitive AoS  till there is a fix for that? 

There is so much space to abuse and twist the rules to make it absolutely ridiculous. Just like the example of the 16 damage Grot Speers or similar stuff. 

I think most of us expected some sort of limitations for Command Abilities for matched play as most people knew about the possible broken combinations.

It really can't be fun for the enemy to get charged by a single Megaboss spamming 4-5 times Waaagh onto near units just to get blown up by Smashin & Bashin. And that is just the possible abuse I can think of with my small Orruk brain.

Jeez.

While yes I agree with you it’s not great for the competitive scene, I honestly feel like we should take whatever we can get and be grateful. Compared with some of the filth other armies are going to bring this is pretty tame.

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3 hours ago, DerZauberer said:

It really can't be fun for the enemy to get charged by a single Megaboss spamming 4-5 times Waaagh onto near units just to get blown up by Smashin & Bashin. And that is just the possible abuse I can think of with my small Orruk brain.

Take the Prophet of the Waaagh! command trait to go with it. Roll 2d6 5 times on turn 3, any rolls that pull a 6 grant 2 attacks instead of 1. 

Odds on 2 dice that neither is a 6 is (5/6)^2 or ~69.4 that means that 30% (and change) of the Waaagh! will be 2 attacks not 1. 

So for 3 Waaagh! we are looking at an average of just under 4 extra attacks, add in the Big G and you are looking at an average of 6 extra attacks on turn 2. Not at all filthy.

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30 minutes ago, Malakree said:

So for 3 Waaagh! we are looking at an average of just under 4 extra attacks, add in the Big G and you are looking at an average of 6 extra attacks on turn 2. Not at all filthy.

 

And that is just our filth. Imagine all the possibilities Order, Chaos or Death can pull by stacking Command Abilities.

I'm really worried that the matched play scene will be a clown fiesta for the first months till it gets fixed.  I dunno how you think but I'm scared to play matched play from day 1 with random peeps. I think I'll stick to friendly games in a friendly cellar with friendly people and friendly beer.
It's amazing how Free Summoning seems to be just a "meh" in comparison to the new Command Ability System. 

But let's see where the journey will lead us.

Edited by DerZauberer
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6 hours ago, DerZauberer said:

Am I the only one who thinks that this will break competitive AoS  till there is a fix for that? 

There is so much space to abuse and twist the rules to make it absolutely ridiculous. Just like the example of the 16 damage Grot Speers or similar stuff. 

I think most of us expected some sort of limitations for Command Abilities for matched play as most people knew about the possible broken combinations.

It really can't be fun for the enemy to get charged by a single Megaboss spamming 4-5 times Waaagh onto near units just to get blown up by Smashin & Bashin. And that is just the possible abuse I can think of with my small Orruk brain.

Jeez.

As long as it’s my megaboss don’t this I can’t there is a problem ?

dont forget Command points will be a vital resource we have already seen one character that can steal them as well as they will be needed in the battkeshock phase literally 3 command points needed to replicate the effect of inspiring precedence over a double turn so the crazy smash will be more infrequent than peeps worry methinks

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18 hours ago, tolstedt said:

A unit can't be affected by the same command ability more than once in a phase.

This isn't stated anywhere in the new GHB or Core Rules.

A separate issue I'm seeing is: People have mentioned using the Fungoid command ability for the run and charge, but it can only be used if the Fungoid is your General. You can't ally in a Fungoid to Ironjawz and then make him your General according to the Core Rules (p17, first paragraph under ALLIES). He's still a fantastic 80pt wizard (-2 to be hit with look out sir, 6+ FNP), just don't get too excited over the neat command ability.

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3 minutes ago, epokh said:

A separate issue I'm seeing is: People have mentioned using the Fungoid command ability for the run and charge, but it can only be used if the Fungoid is your General. You can't ally in a Fungoid to Ironjawz and then make him your General according to the Core Rules (p17, first paragraph under ALLIES). He's still a fantastic 80pt wizard (-2 to be hit with look out sir, 6+ FNP), just don't get too excited over the neat command ability.

Read MP FAQ about it

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I am wondering if, with the wording of the Waaaaagh! and Mighty Waaaaagh! abilities, they are only triggered once at the start of the combat phase no matter how many times you use the same command ability on the same model during the hero phase. 

"If a Megaboss uses this ability, count up the number of Ironjawz units within 10" of them at the start of the combat phase of the turn, and roll a dice." 

So if he uses it, you roll one dice. If he uses it 3 times, you still roll one dice, as there is no counting mechanism installed for adding multiple dice to roll for the same Megaboss (i.e. "roll one dice for every Waaaagh!"). This would imply that using multiple bosses it can be stacked, as each has their own Waaaagh! but it can not be stacked by the same boss multiple times.

I am wondering how to interpret the RaW and even RaI for that matter..... 

much confusion,

Mark

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Yes with stacking the mbmk command ability we will have that one round to be killy. Honestly, though before that round we are foot slogging it. Getting shot and spell spammed trying to get there. After that round it's hold on deary cause you don't have any command points left. 

Smashing and bashing is no different than deepkin turn 3 high tide. But they also get an army wide buff every round. 

Also to pull this trick off you are likely  ignoring objectives.  Lots of armies have deepstrike or teleporting to snag your objectives. Hammerstrike will probably be a thing again. 

Good opponents will know to screen their army against IJ and our big round of combat  will  not do any real harm. Then a lot can summon replacement units. 

Better opponents will focus fire and kill the mbmk before you make it into combat. I'm just excited at the possibility of winning 2 or 3 games in a 5 game tournament. 

I love that the destruction community is considerate to their opponents but at the same time I'll take what I can get. 

WAAAAGGGGHHHH! 

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1 hour ago, epokh said:

Ah, there it is. Can be General, but no Trait or Item in Ironjawz.

Question is if he can take the realm artefacts instead since they don't have an allegiance requirement.

My personal opinion on the WAAAGH! Is that each mb will be able to use it once but the same type (2 cabbage for example) will stack for the extra attacks.

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1 hour ago, Izikail said:

I inow alot of players are hating on ardboys atm and i get it. But still love the modles. Do we know if they are becoming battleline in ghb 2018?

Edit. I ment destuction bl. I know there ij bl

I still think Ard Boyz are fne.  The only real nerf I see is the change so that shields cannot stop mortal wounds and honestly that makes sense to me as a verisimilitude thing.  I also don't think it was that big of a nerf overall.  You can still mix in some shields like before to help offset some shooting or melee wounds and I think that was what those shields were generally doing most of the time.

I have not dug too deep into costs but my understanding is that smaller units are now a bit cheaper than they used to be and the full unit is the same cost.  Seems like an improvement to me.

Nothing they have done to the ArdBoys is going to stop my plans to field all my 100 or so Black Orcs as a full Ardboy horde.  That is still going to happen...

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9 hours ago, sporadicMike said:

Smashing and bashing is no different than deepkin turn 3 high tide

Except we get it every round.

 

9 hours ago, Malakree said:

Question is if he can take the realm artefacts instead since they don't have an allegiance requirement.

 

That's a good question and important for list building. 
Allies can't take artefacts, but is a hearald an ally or is the herald its own thing?

I might try the weirdfist again this week, or do 3x rocklobberz allies again.

How about troll hag?  There are no points for her in the GHB.  I think it could be strong with an endless spell and the 30" unbind to potentially blast weaker casters with mortal wounds.

Edit:  Just found the new points.  Rogue Idol looks good as well.

Edited by tolstedt
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3 hours ago, tolstedt said:

Except we get it every round.

Yes but it's by no means a guaranteed thing. Old rules I'd be lucky to trigger it once or twice per game. 

Now with a little effort to keep your buffs in line. You can easily trigger it 4 or 5 times in the round you spend all your command points. 

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The pts change from the addition hasnt been to kind to the IJ. Do we think that the comand ability change is enough to carry IJ forward into the new edition successfully? I like most share a fear of jamming, charictor wraping and ranged punch. We cant afford to splurge CP on a turn where we are going to be cought on trash, but if we dont then the counter charge will hurt.

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28 minutes ago, Izikail said:

The pts change from the addition hasnt been to kind to the IJ. Do we think that the comand ability change is enough to carry IJ forward into the new edition successfully? I like most share a fear of jamming, charictor wraping and ranged punch. We cant afford to splurge CP on a turn where we are going to be cought on trash, but if we dont then the counter charge will hurt.

Yeah thats something im concerned about. How many factions have deployment shenanigans? I know Nighthaunt can now hold 50% of their army in reserved and auto drop them as long as its before turn 4. A smart general will anticipate the stacking Waaagh! then just slap down a unit of 40 chainwraps to simply block a charge. 

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