AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Skabnoze]

I actually like JGroover's list a bit more than the old-school Gorefist.  Gordrakk's command ability does not work on himself and the Gorefist at the same time, but you could use the Fungoid Shaman's command ability to let Gordrakk run and charge.  Also, the Warboss with banner is a nice addition. 

[Izikail]

In answer to what id like to see for the faction especialy as ironjawz are the orks who know tactics. Id like brutes with giant crossbows,maybe add in a funcky rule like any 8 wound or more model hit but not killed by this unit may not move any further away in there next turn (cus the balisters have ropes attatched) helps bring people into punching range. Brutes with giant shileds that have some sort of rule were on a charge they can push enemy models, as the faction likes alphas it would help stop jamming. A gore grunter massive battering ram/chariot, could have a similer pushing rule. Mainly just hear as i like big things and gore grunters. If you wanted anothere smaller unit maybe ard boy berzerkers lowest in faction save, Biger damage output.

Edit

Also make ardboys destruction battleline

Edited June 27, 2018 by Izikail

[tolstedt]

18 hours ago, Skabnoze said:

I actually like JGroover's list a bit more than the old-school Gorefist.  Gordrakk's command ability does not work on himself and the Gorefist at the same time, but you could use the Fungoid Shaman's command ability to let Gordrakk run and charge.  Also, the Warboss with banner is a nice addition. 

I've had problems keeping units within range of the fungoid general's command ability. 
But being able to re-roll runs and charges with a CMP may mitigate this.

We also play that the fungoid doesn't get a command trait.  Is this correct?

 

2 hours ago, Izikail said:

In answer to what id like to see for the faction especialy as ironjawz are the orks who know tactics. Id like brutes with giant crossbows,maybe add in a funcky rule like any 8 wound or more model hit but not killed by this unit may not move any further away in there next turn (cus the balisters have ropes attatched) helps bring people into punching range. Brutes with giant shileds that have some sort of rule were on a charge they can push enemy models, as the faction likes alphas it would help stop jamming. A gore grunter massive battering ram/chariot, could have a similer pushing rule. Mainly just hear as i like big things and gore grunters. If you wanted anothere smaller unit maybe ard boy berzerkers lowest in faction save, Biger damage output.

Edit

Also make ardboys destruction battleline

I'm still waiting on a wheelbarrow full of spiky waaaagh mines that brutes are chukkin'. 
If you miss with the shooting attack, they create 3" diameter smoking craters that are impassable and do mortal wounds to units within 3" in the hero phase.

[Superninja]

There are certainly options that could be added to the army.  At the core, Ironjawz are obviously melee punch you in the face.   But here is some stuff that comes to mind.

• Short range throwing weapon type units could fit in nicely.  Little bit of softening up as they still intend to continue on in to melee. 
• Ground based vehicle, possibly pulled by gruntas, that carries units to get them into combat quicker (ironjawz hay-ride)
• 2nd cheap totem type buff hero.  Buffing wound rolls, save rolls,  movement, or charges...anything for more synergy within the faction. (buff that lasts till your next hero phase)
• Grappling hook/Mancatcher type ranged weapons that bring targets closer to you or you closer to them.
• Gruntas/Wolves/Beasts of some kind without riders.  Cheap/Fast/Good Damage
• Unit with Tower Shields or mobile cover of some kind.  Blocking LOS for another unit behind but within 3 or 5 inches.  Or +1 Save for a unit behind but within 3 or 5 inches.
• Wish there was a battalion that had units showing up to the battle, having heard the great Waaagh!,  from different sides of the board.  (or it was a plan of attack, hold a portion of your battalion off the board, to be setup on any board edge later...blah blah. something like that.

[Superninja]

Another thought: Drawing from the reputation of brutality of the Ironjawz

• Fear/Intimidation Tactics.  A unit that either reduces the bravery of those they are in combat with, or a unit that actively attacks the bravery in some way.  Be it a totem effect, spell, whatever.  If successful it could give -1 to hit rolls/wound rolls/save rolls/
• Or fear that keeps people from retreating, so they stay in battle and get hit in the face more. This would be useful against things that can retreat and still shoot or charge or whatever.

[tolstedt]

How about an endless spell that triggers (can move and/or grow larger) every time smashing and bashing is triggered?

If it grows enough it turns into a rogue idol.

Edited June 27, 2018 by tolstedt

[Garxia]

Directly from the FAQ:

- Gordrakk: When using the command ability, the unit should be 24" fully within.

- Weirdnob Shaman: Can't hit himself from rolling a double casting/dispelling, it specifies it should be other orruk unit (well deserved buff).

- Gore Gruntas: Pigs always do D3 damage on the charge if it's further than 8"" (about time!!).  Sadly, still the same just wording clarification.

- Ardboys: They cannot use the shield save against mortal wounds (☹️).

- Ardfist Battallion: You can use it only once per battle (sad).

Edited June 27, 2018 by Garxia

[Malakree]

30 minutes ago, Garxia said:

- Ardboys: They cannot use the shield save against mortal wounds (☹️).

- Ardfist Battallion: You can use it only once per battle (sad).

Welp that renders the use of Ardboys to be 10man holding units only.

Quote

‘If the distance is 8" or more and the charge is successful, the gruntas’ Fanged Maw and Hooves have a Damage characteristic of D3 instead of 1 until the end of that turn.

Good to see that my point about the GG's damage increase technically lasting for the rest of the game made it into the errata ?

I'm just glad I didn't start buying up more Ardboys as I think GG's are now going to be just better than them.

[Jgroover]

47 minutes ago, Garxia said:

- Gore Gruntas: Pigs always do D3 damage on the charge if it's further than 8"" (about time!!).

Doesn't look like anything has changed with the wording besides limiting it to the end of that turn so they should continue to operate as they have in the past. 

[Malakree]

12 minutes ago, Jgroover said:

Doesn't look like anything has changed with the wording besides limiting it to the end of that turn so they should continue to operate as they have in the past. 

Looks like you are correct. Good to know that the stormcast get the d3 damage for making a charge and we are still stuck with a hyper restrictive version of it.

Not sure why they don't just squat Ironjawz and tell us which stormcast warscrolls our units now count as.

[Izikail]

IJ2 please 

[Malakree]

27 minutes ago, Izikail said:

IJ2 please 

This errata makes me think that it's not happening. It looks like we are going to get the 3rd ed dark eldar treatment, gotta wait for AoS3 for our next battle-tome.

[Jgroover]

We really need to get the same treatment Nighthaunt got after being neglected this long. I'm talking a dozen new units like they got and a bunch of fancy rules. Kind of bitter. That said my handbook and malign sorcery just showed up today so at least excited for a little added spice.

[Rumblefish]

Those are some disappointing 'clarifications'.

The 8" requirement on the GG just feels like such an 'early AoS' rule that should clearly have been revised by now.

I don't think this necessarily means much though in terms of future updates. LoN shows that they are pretty happy changing warscrolls on the fly (and repeatedly). IJ are so close to being a 'full' army with AOS era models no less, it seems absurd that they wouldn't get that bump.

[Tip4Tap]

24 minutes ago, Malakree said:

This errata makes me think that it's not happening. It looks like we are going to get the 3rd ed dark eldar treatment, gotta wait for AoS3 for our next battle-tome.

Our time will come. Stay strong keep believing.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Tip4Tap

[Imperial]

Just read FAQ. I realy happy what i dont need use ardboys now! With shield w/o save mortal wounds they need cost .... hmm ... 140/330. Arrow boys for the win! 

[Imperial]

3 hours ago, Garxia said:

- Gore Gruntas: Pigs always do D3 damage on the charge if it's further than 8"" (about time!!).

They changed last sentence! So i think sentence about measuring distance to nearest unit still active! 

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

This errata makes me think that it's not happening. It looks like we are going to get the 3rd ed dark eldar treatment, gotta wait for AoS3 for our next battle-tome.

This errata was easy to make and had probably been sitting around waiting for the next General's Handbook anyways.  They were all obvious ones that we had discussed quite a bit.  I don't think this at all indicates that a new book is not happening.  GW has historically dropped a fairly large errata on the release of a new edition and those often touched units that were then quickly replaced by a new army book.  This just happened in 40k 8th edition with the release of all of the Index books at launch and then some of that being changed in books that were quickly released.

It may also indicate that these units are unlikely to change from this version in a new update of the Battletome.  I still posit that if the rumors of a mini-release wave of Ironjawz models is correct then that is going to coincide with a new book.  Printing new army books is almost a guaranteed sale for GW - and there is no better time to rewrite a book than a new edition.  One reason that GW regularly resculpts the same models and issues new versions of the rules is so that they can keep selling those things to the same player base - they are a business after all and why make all new products when you can just iterate the existing ones?

It is also worth noting that in the Malign Portents Errata document they have deprectated the warscrolls for the Stormcast and Nighthaunt Harbingers completely.  They now say to refer to their respective battletomes for their new Warscroll.  I expect the same will happen to the Fungoid shaman and I would not be surprised to see these warscrolls be changed in some ways.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Skabnoze

[Skabnoze]

4 minutes ago, Imperial said:

They changed last sentence! So i think sentence about measuring distance to nearest unit still active! 

That is how it reads.  Shame that they did not remove that bit about measuring to the closest enemy, but it just means that you will pay a bit more attention to where you position the unit in order to get this bonus.

It is nice that they removed the requirement of needing to roll over 8 on the dice so now you can use charge bonuses (cog spell anyone?) to trigger this. 

[Skabnoze]

It is too bad that the Waaagh! command ability does not persist until your next hero phase.  But the ability to toss a bunch of them out there and stack them possibly makes up for it.

Also I just noticed that Ardboyz have been clarified so that the shield save does not work against mortal wounds.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Skabnoze

[Skabnoze]

So, on the topic of the errata and possible new battletomes I found it interesting to look at the errata for the Grand Alliance books - most especially the Grand Alliance Death book.  So for each of the Grand Alliance books it seems that the errata to them is to deprecate the units that now have an entry in a battletome.  For example, Bonesplitterz, Beastclaw, and Ironjawz were all deprecated from Grand Alliance Destruction.

What I found interesting though was that the Grand Alliance Death errata said to deprecate the entire book:

Quote

The warscrolls in this book are no longer used. They have been replaced with the warscrolls in Battletome: Flesh-eater Courts, Battletome: Legions of Nagash and Battletome: Nighthaunt.

I find that interesting because it basically means that Legions of Nagash was effectively a full replacement for Grand Alliance Death.  We sort of knew that anyways, as it was a much better way to play with that stuff, but it is still interesting to consider.  We have been discussing the idea of a similar "Waaagh! Gordrakk" or "Legions of <insert destruction warlord>" type of book for a little while now, but this makes me think that GW may indeed actually put out a few more of them to consolidate allegiances that otherwise might not see an update for a long time (or at all).  But that is just pure speculation on my part.

[Lanoss]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

I'm just glad I didn't start buying up more Ardboys as I think GG's are now going to be just better than them.

I’m regretting putting so much effort into my Ard boyz after first hearing they were getting a points reduction and now their abilities getting faq’d

?

[novakai]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

This errata was easy to make and had probably been sitting around waiting for the next General's Handbook anyways.  They were all obvious ones that we had discussed quite a bit.  I don't think this at all indicates that a new book is not happening.  GW has historically dropped a fairly large errata on the release of a new edition and those often touched units that were then quickly replaced by a new army book.  This just happened in 40k 8th edition with the release of all of the Index books at launch and then some of that being changed in books that were quickly released.

It may also indicate that these units are unlikely to change from this version in a new update of the Battletome.  I still posit that if the rumors of a mini-release wave of Ironjawz models is correct then that is going to coincide with a new book.  Printing new army books is almost a guaranteed sale for GW - and there is no better time to rewrite a book than a new edition.  One reason that GW regularly resculpts the same models and issues new versions of the rules is so that they can keep selling those things to the same player base - they are a business after all and why make all new products when you can just iterate the existing ones?

It is also worth noting that in the Malign Portents Errata document they have deprectated the warscrolls for the Stormcast and Nighthaunt Harbingers completely.  They now say to refer to their respective battletomes for their new Warscroll.  I expect the same will happen to the Fungoid shaman and I would not be surprised to see these warscrolls be changed in some ways.

didn't they hint at Adepticon that New Destruction/ Ironjaw model where being made in the workshop? So I would think that we are not that far off from a Destruction release in general and I think it likely this will happen

[Jgroover]

I just got my generals handbook and as far as I can see there is nothing in there limiting use of command abilities. It really seems like we can waaagh as many times as we want from the same megaboss and have them stack. I feel like I have to be missing something or this game is going to be insane. 

[sporadicMike]

2 hours ago, Jgroover said:

I just got my generals handbook and as far as I can see there is nothing in there limiting use of command abilities. It really seems like we can waaagh as many times as we want from the same megaboss and have them stack. I feel like I have to be missing something or this game is going to be insane. 

To be fair, it's essentially gonna be a once per game ability. Turn 2 or 3 spend all your command points waggghhhhh! Then subsequent turns maybe use IP. 

So i think it makes sense we can stack it. No different than deepkin fighting first turn 3. Trick for us will be getting everyone into position  and having mbmk still alive to use his command ability. 

 I'm trying to decide between golden toof or boss secure for my MBMK.