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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

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7 minutes ago, Txplays said:

Thinking about running a Bloodtoofs with 1 or 2 drops so most likely will be able to pick 1st turn.  My question is when should I go 1st and when should I go 2nd?

WOW that's a big question.  I hate cop-out answers but you really need to play a lot games and build up experience to judge every situation.  Although with Bloodtoofs specifically...you will usually go first.

In general, you want to go first if you can reach them and deal devastating damage turn 1.

You also want to go first if they can reach you turn 1 (including deep striking / magic / shooting) because you probably don't have much in the way of screening.

You also want to go first if they have a lot of defensive buffs (including battleshock protection) - to hit them before they get it off. 

You also want to go first in Places of Power style scenarios where they have unkillable heroes that  you won't be able to shift.

If they can't really hurt you (footslogging army) - you might let them go first and hope for the double.  But more often with Bloodtoofs you are looking for the shock and awe - so you'll go first.

Edited by PlasticCraic
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Depending on how  opponent’s army and how they deploy. If you can’t get in turn 1, I’d suggest holding back and wait for them to move closer. Or spend that turn getting into position for a turn2 Waaagh

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1 hour ago, Txplays said:

Thinking about running a Bloodtoofs with 1 or 2 drops so most likely will be able to pick 1st turn.  My question is when should I go 1st and when should I go 2nd?

Can you get onto a key character or unit and kill it before they start buffing up. So for example if you can get a huge Waaagh! running and slam into a stardrake before it starts getting all the lantern buffs making it unkillable. If so take first turn. (This is known as an Alphastrike)

By the same token, can you seize position allowing you to deny your opponents control of the objectives and force the game into a long grind where you hold the objectives for all of it. If so take first turn.

If either of these are not true OR you don't think you can soak a double turn then give it to them and deploy in a fashion that lets you stop them properly alphastriking you back.

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What are everyone's thoughts on this weirdfist list? The cogs can be cast by the backup shaman so that the battalion shaman can cast the balewind vortex on turn 1 and then has two more spell casts for foot and green puke with +24" range and +3 mortal wounds on average.

 

Megaboss on Maw Krusha  440
-Ironclad
-Miasmatic Blade

Megaboss  140
-Sword of Judgement

Warchanter  80

Weirdnob Shaman  120

Weirdnob Shaman  120

10 Brutes  360

10 Ardboys  160

10 Ardboys  160

3 Gore Gruntas  140

Weirdfist  180

Balewind  40

Chronomatic Cogs  60

Edited by Luke.w

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almost like my list, but you should split the brutes to max weirdfist units. i use gemenid, but Cog is also a good idea. Personnaly i would use the golden tooth because losing brutes in battleshock is really bad. Sword of judgement on foot boss with only 1 warchanter doesn't look that usefull anyway :)

 

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Also don’t forget that the weirdnob when he casts the cogs or balewind only gets one more cast that turn but 2 next turn., because he uses one to cast the endless spell. 

Otherwise I agree with @broche you need the brutes to be in 2x5 or failing that drop cogs and second shaman for an extra 5 man but to maximise the weirdfist ? 

 

 

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4 hours ago, broche said:

almost like my list, but you should split the brutes to max weirdfist units. i use gemenid, but Cog is also a good idea. Personnaly i would use the golden tooth because losing brutes in battleshock is really bad. Sword of judgement on foot boss with only 1 warchanter doesn't look that usefull anyway :)

 

Thanks, maxxing the weirdfidt definitely seems the way to go.  The golden toof sounds like a good idea. I also like the sound of the boss skewer as it is more reliable (not dependant on the megaboss getting into combat and killing something, hence more protective against shooting damage early in the game.

With the brutes in two units of 5, the best target for the warchanter will most likely be the MBMK. Since he is already survivable with Ironclad, I may consider using the sword of judgment on him to pump out mortal wounds in hero fights. 

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golden tooth is now immune to battleshock wholly within 12'' ;)

 

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3 hours ago, Luke.w said:

With the brutes in two units of 5, the best target for the warchanter will most likely be the MBMK. Since he is already survivable with Ironclad, I may consider using the sword of judgment on him to pump out mortal wounds in hero fights. 

You have not seen a unit of 5 Brutes with 9 extra attacks on every weapon. The MK doesn't need it...

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8 hours ago, Malakree said:

You have not seen a unit of 5 Brutes with 9 extra attacks on every weapon. The MK doesn't need it...

Can you explain how? thanks
I just take a 2500 pt of Ironjawz and i'm looking for Bloodtoofs but it let me quite confused: i deploy 1 Realmgate only, right? 

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Only deploy 1 realm gate for Bloodtoofs but if another is on the board but players can use the new rules for them 

you can now stack Waaagh and Mighty Waaagh so command points can be used to use these more than once.  I’ve yet to do a MEGA-Waaagh of more than 3 but with a 6 rolled that was 4 extra attacks and my footboss with destroyer soloed a black coach and my Mawkrusha killed 20 grimghast reapers! 

Who needs fancy maces or celestial lightning to deal with the supernatural, just waaagh energy brah!

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51 minutes ago, Sangfroid said:

Only deploy 1 realm gate for Bloodtoofs but if another is on the board but players can use the new rules for them 

you can now stack Waaagh and Mighty Waaagh so command points can be used to use these more than once.  I’ve yet to do a MEGA-Waaagh of more than 3 but with a 6 rolled that was 4 extra attacks and my footboss with destroyer soloed a black coach and my Mawkrusha killed 20 grimghast reapers! 

Who needs fancy maces or celestial lightning to deal with the supernatural, just waaagh energy brah!

Let me understand: Mighty Waagh give us +1/2 attacks, same for Waagh...but we need to roll 6 two times. But the other 5 bonus attack?
I miss something for sure ?

Thanks guys

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2 hours ago, Fablo said:

Let me understand: Mighty Waagh give us +1/2 attacks, same for Waagh...but we need to roll 6 two times. But the other 5 bonus attack?
I miss something for sure ?

Thanks guys

I think Malakree was accounting for the possibility of rolling a 6's on the Waaagh check and using aethquartz broach artifact (every time you use a command point on a 5+, you receive another CP). 

Let

s say you turn 2 charge with Bloodtoofs, you're sitting on 4 cp, you'll gain an additional 1-2 CP from broach, and out of those 5-6 spent CP you'll most likely get a single roll of a 6' on the Waaagh! check. So, we're looking at around 6 extra attacks per weapon on average dice. 

Edited by Andrew G
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That's right, the Brooch is key.  Also @Malakree is an advocate of the Prophet of the Waaagh with the Brooch...

So you're likely to get a couple of 6s with the rerolls. Therefore you're probably averaging  at least 7 extra attacks, and 9 won't be that unusual. 

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3 hours ago, Fablo said:

Let me understand: Mighty Waagh give us +1/2 attacks, same for Waagh...but we need to roll 6 two times. But the other 5 bonus attack?
I miss something for sure ?

Thanks guys

As @Andrew G and @PlasticCraic said it's to do with the Aetherquartz Broach, an artefact from Hysh.

I had a turn 2 engage against a Nighthaunt army in a throne of skulls tournament and got 8 Mighty Waaagh! running off 3 CP's, I rolled one 6 (was running Ironclad not Prophet) and had 9 extra attacks with every weapon.

At that tournament I averaged 5 bonus attacks from stacked Mighty Waaagh!

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So I'm checking Errata's for something else and just had a reread of the Ardfist rule.

Quote

Page 121 – Ardfist, Drawn To The Waaagh! Change the second sentence to: ‘Once per battle, if this battalion’s Warchanter is on the battlefield, you can replace any units from this battalion that have been destroyed.

So Inputing this into the Ardfist.

Quote

The Intoxicating beat drummed out by Orruk Warchanters draws many Ardboys out of the badlands.
Once per battle, if this battalion’s Warchanter is on the battlefield, you can replace any units from this battalion that have been destroyed
The replacement unit is identical to the unit that was destroyed, and must be setup with all models within 6" of the edge of the battlefield, and more than 6" from enemy units. Within these restrictions it must be deployed as close to the battalion's warchanter as possible....

So a few thoughts.

  1. This ironically removes the requirement that it be used in your Hero Phase. While this is clearly a mistake currently there is no restrictions on WHEN we use this once per game.
  2. So if our opponent makes some long range charges that put the Warchanter into combat unexpectedly we can use the ability reactively before it dies.
  3. As it says "Any units" this means that if, when we use it, all the Ardfist other than the WC is dead we get all the units back.
  4. Theoretically if you hold it back you could resurrect 1500+ points of Ardboys.
  5. With proper placement of the first unit of 30 Ardboys you could force units 2 and 3 to be much further away from the Warchanter that is obvious.
  6. 6" is really ****** close for a unit that gets +3 to charge base.
  7. This seems a bit filthy...

Opinions.

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Great thinking @Malakree

The only thing where it could get a bit technical is if you're doing it in their turn, in terms of who has precedence.  

If you're doing it at the end of their charge phase for example you'll be fine, because they don't have anything that could trigger at the same time (and therefore trump).  

However if Nighthaunt charge you, they attack immediately so they would jump the gun on you...even a Destructive Bulk which just happens "after you complete a charge move" would probably be simultaneous (since you have no timing within the phase to anchor to), and therefore the players whose turn it is takes precedence?

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Had a game against a shooty SCE (judicators, Raptors, Sequitors, Concussors etc). Played Shifting Objectives

I ran a Bloodtoofs with a unit of 6 Gruntas and they really served their purpose! Bogged down Concussors for 3 turns while everything else did it’s work.

He just stayed bubbled and I ran across the board, held objectives and smacked into his force. 

Finished the game 14VP-0vp with a Megaboss and 2x warchanters left

Good game!!!

only thing I would have done differently is when my MK charged his Concussors, I should have piled around one of them and attacked his Raptors (they popped my MK the following turn...)

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@Malakree i think it was intended that you can use it any time. For the 'any' i would guess their intention was you can bring 1 units per game. But RAW, it seem one you trigger the ability, you can actually get back all destroyed units.

In that case i guess a small ardfist (3 x 10 ardboys) is worth trying. You can screen with them turn 1-2 then agains non shooty army you could realisticaly bring back 2 units during turn 3 and grab some objectives.

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28 minutes ago, broche said:

@Malakree i think it was intended that you can use it any time. For the 'any' i would guess their intention was you can bring 1 units per game. But RAW, it seem one you trigger the ability, you can actually get back all destroyed units.

In that case i guess a small ardfist (3 x 10 ardboys) is worth trying. You can screen with them turn 1-2 then agains non shooty army you could realisticaly bring back 2 units during turn 3 and grab some objectives.

If I was going to do it I would take probably 4/5 units of 10 and then use them to screen. Push them right up the board as far as possible so that armies which hit really hard run into a giant speed bump, then ideally let them have priority turn 2 so that you get the endless spells move first and they waste their turn trying to get through the Ardboys.

At that point you can probably bring back 2-4 units on YOUR turn 2 and fish for the double yourself.

Hell it's a bit of a funky list but this would be a laugh at least

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)

Battalions
Ardfist (170)
Brute Fist (180)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 131

It even comes out as only 5 drops!

 

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Regarding the Aetherquartz Brooch, I've got a real dumb question.

Can you take more than 1 brooch and then roll for each brooch? I'm leaning towards no, but I've been unable to find where it says you can't.

The wording on the brooch says that you receive 1 command point, rather than get that command point back each time you roll a 5+. If my assumption is correct, in theory this could mean getting more than 1 command point each time you Waaagh!

It's especially dirty once you add Prophet into the mix and with GW specifically saying IJ can Waaagh! multiple times.

 

EDIT - nevermind, found it in the core rules. Would also be nice to have had it duplicated in the artefacts of the realms section

Edited by froo

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Hi all,

so I recently tried to rethink my alphastrike Gorefist army and I discovered that it got even better with AoS 2.0.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (580)
- General
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- Artefact: Sash of the Ten Paradises 
- Allies
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
Gorefist (190)
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1890 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 220 / 400
Wounds: 115
 

You start with 4 command points.

First you eat the mush mush from the Shaman then casting Cogs and a shield or whatever on some pigs and then the fun is starting. First of you pull of the Command Ability from Gordrakk then start with the Gorefist movement of 15”. In the movement phase your pigs can then move again 11“ and then charge with 3 dices. When you set the Warboss right you can give the 3 pig units and Gordrakk 3 attacks with each of their weapons with his CA and with a little luck with the Aetherquartz Brooch maybe 4 or even 5 attacks, with Gordrakks CA the pigs have at least 17 attacks each, means 306 attacks coming in first round only from the pigs and with the 2+ charge and 1+ charge from the Ironjawz CT it is viable to let the pigs charge 8“ for the D3 damage. Also Gordrakk gets +3 attacks to all of his melee weapons, so he should go in first as hard as he can. I have to try that army on one of our next gaming session with my group.

I know all of that stuff above is assuming that everything is working with placement and casting and..., but I mean thats just freakin awsome.

Waaaaaaaaagh!

Edited by Hot Peanut
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Tried a couple games with this list and I like it so far.  Ardfist/Gordrakk. 

I like having multiple sources of Waagh, especially to try for a multi-waagh with the brooch.  The orruk warboss is nice because of his movement, command ability no roll, and his wound rerolls are great.   Gordrakk is nice because he doesn't have to be centralized like warboss's typically do.  This allows him to go where ever he is needed. 

Wish I had more Wizards in the list, but its ok.  More warchanters could work too.

Spoiler

 

1x Gordrakk, Fist Of Gork (580)

1x Orruk Warboss, ally, Waagh Banner (140)

1x Fungoid Cave Shaman, ally, (80)

1x Warchanter, Prophet of Waagh, Aetherquartz Brooch (80)

1x Warchanter, Ardfist Battalion, Mirrored Quirass (80)

5x10 Arboys (800)

Ardfist battalion (170)

Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1990/2000

Command Points: 1

Allies: 220/400

Wounds: 137

 

 

Edited by Superninja
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Has anyone ever taken the Grot Wolf Chariot as an ally in an ironjawz list. It is really fast (12”), it can also run,shooot and charge. At only 40points, isn’t it an option in an Ironjawz list, as a supper light, quick objective grabber?

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