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Chris Tomlin
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5 hours ago, riddlesworth said:

9.77 wounds from grunta gore hackas at -1 rend. Plus 2.33 mortals on the charge

Vs

4 at -2 rend, 1.33 damage 2 at -2 rend and 1.33 damage 2 at -1 rend (7.99 all in)

 

Can't remember what the cut.off is where Brutes out perform gruntas. I think it's 3+, but could be 4+.

 

A lot of variables that can affect this (Unit sizes, Warchanter buff, charge no/charge, fighting 4+ wound enemy, all out attack), but assuming just warchanter buff, there's not an appreciable difference in damage unless the Brutes rend negates a save stack and gets the enemy off a 2+ save. Which is obviously very highly valuable in this meta.

Against 3+ armor w/ warchanter:

Brutes with -2 rend
image.png.12af10f45206854e815ee5999f4807aa.png

Gore Gruntas with Choppas (not including MW for charge):
image.png.6784b44b537e3e67e026d5bb5e9d6472.png

Upsides for me are Brutes still do appreciable damage w/o warchanter buff where gruntas really fall off. Their overall kit is just better suited for fighting 3+ armor monster heroes who can save stack and roar you. Obviously, negating 1 wound models for objective holding is situationally one of the most impactful rules in the book. 

 

Edited by Andrew G
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1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Im very curious how GW consider megaboss anility to give ca to 3 units about all out attack or all out defence. Some people say you cant  others say you can :(

Yea if GW does not release a FAQ soon I can't bring my Ironjawz to any of the November events I am currently signed up for, as there are only a couple of week to a cut off date on FAQ release, and with the pace and lack of communication going at at GW right now, I am very very worried... (All events require FAQd tomes around here)

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On 10/14/2021 at 12:18 PM, Tizianolol said:

Im very curious how GW consider megaboss anility to give ca to 3 units about all out attack or all out defence. Some people say you cant  others say you can :(

Scroll back a page or two and you can read up on the unending debate to your heart’s content 😅

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I've lost 3 times now to my buddies Soulblight. 

Belladoma

Vhordrai

Radukar the beast

Blood coven throne (general)

Necromancer

2x20 zombies

2x10 wolves (one is summoned)

I'm running Ironsunz

2xMBoMK. General, mighty Waaagh leader, Amulet & Fastun + Destroyer

2 WC

10 Brutes (sometimes 2x5)

2x5 ardboys

2x3 pigs

I've tried penetrating his castle. Getting through the screens turn 1 is essentially impossible. Then on his turn he debuffs the absolute ****** out of me. Never quite seen that much debuffing. Prince V then one shots MK.

I've tried letting him go first to set up the counter punch. It's a pretty strong game plan this way but by turn 3 the attrition war is lost against death.

 

What do you guys think? Any tips? It feels like Darksouls hardmode.

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7 hours ago, Chase said:

I've lost 3 times now to my buddies Soulblight. 

Belladoma

Vhordrai

Radukar the beast

Blood coven throne (general)

Necromancer

2x20 zombies

2x10 wolves (one is summoned)

I'm running Ironsunz

2xMBoMK. General, mighty Waaagh leader, Amulet & Fastun + Destroyer

2 WC

10 Brutes (sometimes 2x5)

2x5 ardboys

2x3 pigs

I've tried penetrating his castle. Getting through the screens turn 1 is essentially impossible. Then on his turn he debuffs the absolute ****** out of me. Never quite seen that much debuffing. Prince V then one shots MK.

I've tried letting him go first to set up the counter punch. It's a pretty strong game plan this way but by turn 3 the attrition war is lost against death.

 

What do you guys think? Any tips? It feels like Darksouls hardmode.

So, my 2 cents:

- first and foremost, the dogma: the fact that you can charge turn 1 doesn't mean you have to.
   Ironsunz is the counter-attackt ribe, so try to exploit their command ability against the opponent's key units.
- split pigs in 2 units is a mistake, despite coherency (ANY of your unit must hit hard and maximize attivation)
- no wizards? Really?
- consider a 15x Ardboyz unit, for living home with a good anvil.

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On the topic of lists, I've a 1k tournament coming up and was thinking of this list. I'll take all the help I can get lol.

Allegiance: Ironjawz

- Warclan: Da Choppas

- Mortal Realm: Ghur

- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

- Triumphs: Indomitable

 

Leaders

Orruk Megaboss (140)*

- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)

Orruk Warchanter (115)*

- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)

- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)*

- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

 

Battleline

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)*

- Jagged Gore-hackas

- 01x Gore Choppas

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)*

- Jagged Gore-hackas

- 01x Gore Choppas

10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)

- 02x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers

- Reinforced x 1

 

Units

3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)

- Pig-iron Choppas

 

Core Battalions

*Warlord

 

Additional Enhancements

Artefact

 

Total: 985 / 1000

Reinforced Units: 1 / 2

Allies: 0 / 200

Wounds: 84

Drops: 7

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On 10/16/2021 at 2:53 PM, Chase said:

I've lost 3 times now to my buddies Soulblight. 

Belladoma

Vhordrai

Radukar the beast

Blood coven throne (general)

Necromancer

2x20 zombies

2x10 wolves (one is summoned)

I'm running Ironsunz

2xMBoMK. General, mighty Waaagh leader, Amulet & Fastun + Destroyer

2 WC

10 Brutes (sometimes 2x5)

2x5 ardboys

2x3 pigs

I've tried penetrating his castle. Getting through the screens turn 1 is essentially impossible. Then on his turn he debuffs the absolute ****** out of me. Never quite seen that much debuffing. Prince V then one shots MK.

I've tried letting him go first to set up the counter punch. It's a pretty strong game plan this way but by turn 3 the attrition war is lost against death.

 

What do you guys think? Any tips? It feels like Darksouls hardmode.

Combine the pigs into 1 unit as mentioned, buff them up with a warchanter. Vhordrai is the only model that can do decent damage in one go, but there is no way he should be able to one shot a Krusha with amulet, especially if you know he is coming and can finest hour. 

You should be able to move around him as you please with mighty destroyer movement. Put the brutes forward, on a center objective if possible so you can engage his zombies if they go to cap, they be messin then and count for 0. If he charges them with his big guys, you counter charge. If you run 2 Krushas, 6 pigs and 10 brutes you got 4 strong hammers, put them decently close so no matter what he is left with a possible counter charge and be exposed.

Instead of mighty waaagh leader consider Mega bossy, if you can box him in fast that would be great and ensure your brutes and warchanters keep up with the krushas and gruntas. 

Having a wizard would make little to no difference here, at be. Getting an unlikely unbind attempt is north worth cutting down either brutes or gruntas in half imo.

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Went to a team tourney on Sunday and managed to go 3-0 wiv da ladz! My list was a bit daft, I ran:

Krusha w/ arcane tome, master of magic, bash em ladz

Gordrakk

Rogue idol

2 chanters

3x5 ardboyz

Ironsunz clan

 

Game 1 was against ymetrica lrl, with teclis, cathallar, 2x5 stoneguard, 1x10 stoneguard and 30 sentinels on the hold objectives for 2 turns battleplan. He took turn 1 and put 14 wounds into my krusha, I shuffled up and didn't charge. He won prio t2 and killed my krusha, in my t2 I MD-charged some ardboyz and gordrakk into his screen and tagged the sentinels, then hopped gordrakk over the screen to pile into teclis while the rogue idol charged 5 stoneguard. Gordrakk slapped teclis down to 2 wounds, the rogue idol killed 4 guard. I won prio t3, MD piled in the idol into range of the sentinels then killed teclis and a load of sentinels with gordy and the idol combined. We played out his t3 then called it.

 

Game 2 was against a new player with sylvaneth, on tectonic interference, not much to say as he castled in one corner and didn't advance for 2 turns while I sat on the objectives. He won prio t3, Alarielle killed the krusha then gordrakk slapped alarielle in my t3 after a double pile in, we called it.

 

Game 3 was against some crazy cabalists std list, I took t1, buffed gordrakk and the krusha and yolo charged with them and the idol, popped the waagh and wiped 5 chaos knights, 30 marauders and some iron golems and chaos warriors. After this the std list had no output, he won prio t2 but failed any charges or kills and after I went he was down to some warcry guys and I won prio t3 having lost a single warchanter.

 

I definitely got lucky dodging some nasty thunder lizard lists, and my opponents weren't super experienced but since I was running such a daft list I'll take my wins where I can get them! The lrl list was the toughest, total eclipse really made me have to choose what to spend my cps on but I played my tightest game against a real tough list so was the high point of my day. Losing t3 prio would've made it a real uphill struggle but I think I had a good chance once I tied up the sentinels with the hero phase charge.

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1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys today a strange thing happened. My opponent move stormstrike chariot 3" of my maw crusha.  I redeploy 4" . He tryed to charge and miss. Can I try to charge even if I used redeploy? My oppo said not.. what do you think?

Why would you not be able to charge, there are no restrictions on redeploy which would stop you..?

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2 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys today a strange thing happened. My opponent move stormstrike chariot 3" of my maw crusha.  I redeploy 4" . He tryed to charge and miss. Can I try to charge even if I used redeploy? My oppo said not.. what do you think?

Sounds like a cheeky guy that did not want his chariot charged ;) This is exactly why Ironsunz are great, nothing stops you from using redeploy in his move phase, and then using the Ironsunz counter charge at the end of his charge phase.

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1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Prob he thought it was like redeploy and unleash hell, as faq you cant do it. Idk guys 😀

Quote

You can make a D6" move with the unit that receives the command, but it must finish the move more than 3" from all enemy units and cannot shoot later in the turn

Redeploy explicitly states that the unit cannot shoot later in the turn. So they can receive the CA (as per the FAQ) but then cannot shoot.

There are no such restrictions around charging.

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38 minutes ago, Clanger said:

Anyone having any success with Ard Boyz heavy lists? Or lists without 2 Mawkrushas?

My collection is very AOS2 rather than what we are seeing at the moment. 

I'm running a list with 2 blocks of 15 ardboys this weekend although it will have 2 MK's with it. Depending on what else you have to go with will depend on what list you're looking at. 

This was posted on the previous page.

On 10/13/2021 at 12:34 AM, Boggler said:

Still no FAQ lol?

Here is some interesting stuff that I found:

Ironjawz took home First place at the Michigan GT. As far as I can tell he is using a list that has not been posted in this thread.

  Reveal hidden contents

image0.png

Double MBMK, Double Mount Trait, Tripple Warchanter! But wait? No Fast Un?

I'll let you guys dissect this one. Obviously player skill was involved.

Ironjawz also took 3rd and 4rth place out of 75 at the Mancunian Carnage. Here are a few couple lists. Its great to see the variations and again, nothing beats player skill and having a plan of attack for each of the battleplans and opponents.

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Ironjawz

- Warclan: Ironsunz

- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

- Triumphs: Inspired

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**

- General

- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist

- Command Trait: Heroic Stature

- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)

- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)

- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Orruk Megaboss (140)***

- Artefact: Destroyer

10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*

- Jagged Gore-hackas

- 2x Gore Choppas

- Reinforced x 1

15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*

- 3x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers

- Reinforced x 2

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)*

- Jagged Gore-hackas

- 1x Gore Choppas

3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)**

- Pig-iron Choppas

3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)***

- Pig-iron Choppas

*Hunters of the Heartlands

**Warlord

***Vanguard

Artefact

Total: 1975 / 2000

Reinforced Units: 3 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 128 Drops: 10 

This list only lost to a Teclis Sentinel castle and that Lumineth only went on to finish 2/3 while Ritchie finished 4-1

  Reveal hidden contents

Russ Veal - Facehammer

Allegiance: Ironjawz

- Warclan: Ironsunz

- Grand Strategy: Waaagh!

- Triumphs: Inspired

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**

- General

- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist

- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader

- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*

- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist

- Artefact: Destroyer

- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)*

- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Orruk Megaboss (140)**

- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)

- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz

Orruk Warchanter (115)*

- Warbeat: Killa Beat

10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

- Reinforced x 1

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)***

- Jagged Gore-hackas

- 1x Gore Choppas

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)***

- Jagged Gore-hackas

- 1x Gore Choppas

4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)**

*Warlord

**Warlord

***Hunters of the Heartlands

Artefact

Artefact

 

Total: 1990/ 2000

Reinforced Units: 1 / 4

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 119

Drops: 10

We obviously don't care about drops here. This is why we lose to Morathi and 15 Bloodstalkers sometimes.

I hope these help you guys with some inspiration.

Personally I'd be looking at Da Choppas for a single Cabbage Ardboy heavy list running 15/5/5 with 10/10 brutes.

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3 hours ago, Clanger said:

Anyone having any success with Ard Boyz heavy lists? Or lists without 2 Mawkrushas?

My collection is very AOS2 rather than what we are seeing at the moment. 

I think ironjawz currently support a wide variety of competitive list. Classic single Krusha list with mix of ardboys brutes and gruntas are still very good. Beside 2 warchanter in every list, you can really mix up the rest and have success

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5 hours ago, Clanger said:

Anyone having any success with Ard Boyz heavy lists? Or lists without 2 Mawkrushas?

My collection is very AOS2 rather than what we are seeing at the moment. 

Haven't tried anything yet, but lists without mawkrushas put A LOT of wounds on the table.
Threw this together without thinking too hard, but something like this is a lot of wounds on a 4+ to deal with, especially when rallying the 'ardboyz
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Da Choppas
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Mega Bossy
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)

Total: 1960 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 176
Drops: 12
 

A list like this definitely plays a different game than a list with a maw-krusha but its probably a viable build. Especially if/when spamming mortals to deal the save stacking meta becomes common.

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Megaboss bellow ability updated in the APP from the new FAQ.

It now states you can issue the same command up to 3 times in the same phase. The 2nd and 3rd time will just not cost command points in the same phase. 

So this was actually a nice fix to the rule that makes it entirely clear. It is quite cool too, as it creates even more options for redeploy for example as it does not trigger at once for up to 3 units, but can be spread out in the same phase after the first time. 

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15 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said:

Now -2 for the hakkas of the Gruntas...oh boy 😁

45 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Megaboss bellow ability updated in the APP from the new FAQ.

It now states you can issue the same command up to 3 times in the same phase. The 2nd and 3rd time will just not cost command points in the same phase. 

So this was actually a nice fix to the rule that makes it entirely clear. It is quite cool too, as it creates even more options for redeploy for example as it does not trigger at once for up to 3 units, but can be spread out in the same phase after the first time. 

Ok wow these are great. Makes everything so much easier to use and the GG buff for hakkas is amazing for bloodtoof heavy lists that really want to use ggs in 6s. The extra range and rend is solid as hell while the +1 to mortals is great for double charging.

Man I wish my gg's didn't all have choppas, might need to do some fixing on the prebuilt but unpainted ones.

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2 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Apparently we can use all out attack/defence more then 1 times!!!:)

Yes, the same command is then just issued at any time during the phase, which avoids the entire trigger discussion. Just imagine he does it again later as a new issued command, it is just free and ignores the 1 of the same command is not allowed rule.

Only situation this is "worse" than the assumption before, is that if he issues lets say all out defence to himself first, then gets killed anyway, he would not be able to issue all out defence to other units later in the same phase of course.

Rend 2 for grunta hackas... damn it all my brutes and gruntas I got painted are with choppas, and my unpainted are with hackas... siiigh. 2" reach and rend 2 and +1 to MW charge by only trading 1 attack seems like almost a no brainer in most take all comers setups. 

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