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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

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Thanks for the input guys! I had my game with that list this past Saturday, and it did pretty well. The Maw Krusha performed as he usually does, and was a missile of doom for a Keeper of Secrets who thought it was safe behind his blobs of daemonettes. The Plate of Protection is probably one of the few new realm artefacts worth taking, as it saved my Warchanter's bacon when he got jumped by an unexpected pack of daemonettes. 

I agree with Jabbuk's assessment of taking larger brute units. I thought MSU would be good if I went for choppas because of their command ability, but they're not tanky enough to deal enough damage in 5 man units. 

I guess my main question would be if going warclan-less is better than going for Choppas at this point, since if I don't leverage the command ability, then I'm really just taking it for the potential charge rerolls and the +2Ld bubble for the brutes.

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Preparing for an upcoming tournament I thought about bringing out the boyz. Big Whaagh is strong and all, but I really like the flexible style of Ironjawz.

I have been used to running ethereal on the MK and going without a clan for brutish cunning, but perhaps it is time for something different.

After having faced KO, Cities, Seraphon and Tzeentch, I have begun to see the value more of the Ironsunz trait in a competetive setting, as some of these armies can deliver a brutal shooting alpha strike, and being -1 to be hit can be critical to get some warchanter buffs up etc. The counter charge command can also make it hard for the opponent to take out single units in combat, as long as something else is reasonably close, the threat of doing so increases exponentially.

With no realm artifacts, the sunzblessed armor is a rather good artifact now, as it was simply outdone by ethereal before. The command trait is skipped and taken for the shaman of course. I considered making him a better caster, but magic is so fickle, and command points are so useful for IJ, that doubling down on that seemed like a sure bet. Both shamans will generate another CP each on 4+, so first turn CP pool will then be between 4-8 CP in the bank, which should give a lot of options.

A bit on the fence with choppas or spears on the Gruntas, so far I chose spears because I already got those painted, but I do have 6 unpainted spear boars laying around...

 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
15 x Orruk Ardboys (300)
10 x Orruk Brutes (260)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
Ironfist (160)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 127

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On 7/23/2020 at 11:03 AM, Backbreaker said:

Nothing in the GH2020 say they are not. :)

I'm also working on that Da Boss Fist list, but I don't know about warchanter, I like having a second MK and one drop army...

Da Boss Fist isnt matched play legal anymore - See the GHB20 FAQ which answers this question. Basically if it is released prior to the GHB but not in the matched play points section, you cant play it. 

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@Scurvydog I think Ironsunz is indeed the no brainer choice for Ironjawz at the moment. I think your list is lacking bodies tough. You'll be farming CP but i'm not sure you'll be able to use them that much. 

I would cut the fungoid and the CP for 5 extra brutes at least. This will put you at 1970 pts leaving a i probability of getting triumph. I would also split the ardboys in a squad of 10 and 5. I think maxing the number of Ironfist units is really important to get enough board coverage.

Other than Ironsunz the other option I like is to go for the Ironclad + ignore rend 1 Krusha. Some army will have no answer to him, while the Ironsunz krusha can easily get saturate by rend 0 attack.

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22 minutes ago, broche said:

I would cut the fungoid and the CP for 5 extra brutes at least. This will put you at 1970 pts leaving a i probability of getting triumph. I would also split the ardboys in a squad of 10 and 5. I think maxing the number of Ironfist units is really important to get enough board coverage.

That is probably true, the extra spells, especially with the new realm spells does make a fungoid quite useful (like +2 run and charge from Ghur) and even handing out mystic shield to the MK, but I do agree that this might not be better than more board coverage, both to have more redundant units to go grab objectives, as well as zoning/screening, sometimes you just need those 5 ardboyz to sit there and keep outflanking/teleporting units away etc.

I might try your approach to the list, maybe just doing 3 more gruntas instead og 5 more brutes and be at 2000 pts, this gives another faster moving element, to potentially catapult 18" for 1 CP if needed, 3 guys could still take down other objective grabbers like 20 grots/liberators etc or minor heroes on their own.

The ironclad combo is indeed something I thought about, my local mates scorn me for always finding some "unkillable combo", my latest tournament being with a stardrake with +1 save aura and +1 save buff with the ignore rend 1 artifact, sitting on a 1+ reroll 1's (reflecting mortal wounds when rerolling and saving...) and healing 1 wound on a 5+ save against anything but rend 2+... now that is tough! 

It does cost the -1 to be hit round 1, a handy command ability and D3 command points from the shaman trait, to get that tougher MK. However I am aware how incredibly more durable a 2+ is than 3+, especially with mystic shield or all out defense.

My main concern is how prevalent Fyreslayers are in tournaments, with 4 cookie cutter lists in my last outing this weekend alone, I had to face 2 in my 5 games. I am trying to come up with ways Ironjawz could handle such list, while my mortal wound raining stormcast could pick of the buffing heroes, IJ cant do that if they are half decently screened by hearthguard berzerkers. Anyone got experience dealing with that? tips and tricks?

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@Scurvydog From my experience the only thing giving me a chance is doing the hero phase charge + retreat trick to ensure they dont get to fight first.

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31 minutes ago, Kasper said:

@Scurvydog From my experience the only thing giving me a chance is doing the hero phase charge + retreat trick to ensure they dont get to fight first.

Yea, I might use that if the going gets really tough, most opponents would probably hate using that trick though ;)

Edited by Scurvydog

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Posted (edited)

Depending on your play style, you could consider using the trait that give 2 cast on the shaman (and he know an extra spell) so you can still use realm spell to a certain extent, or cast mystic shield in addition to hand of gork (and have a nice back up spell).

I've a tournament as well this weekend, i'm running a similar set up :) 

117155951_2436861013277896_5161822696628039516_n.jpg.6a8a8ef24598e2e4e1bd4a19dd58cce4.jpg

Edited by broche
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8 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Yea, I might use that if the going gets really tough, most opponents would probably hate using that trick though ;)

AoS is funny in that regard - I mean I dont enjoy Fyreslayers using "their trick" to fight twice or when Plague Monks use "their trick" to fight twice after death etc. 😅 Where do you draw the line for "what isnt fair".  

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8 hours ago, broche said:

Depending on your play style, you could consider using the trait that give 2 cast on the shaman (and he know an extra spell) so you can still use realm spell to a certain extent, or cast mystic shield in addition to hand of gork (and have a nice back up spell).

I've a tournament as well this weekend, i'm running a similar set up :) 

117155951_2436861013277896_5161822696628039516_n.jpg.6a8a8ef24598e2e4e1bd4a19dd58cce4.jpg

What a great army :) An extra spell could be handy, however it does come at a cost if we are talking ironsunz, with 1 CP from the meh trait but also access to Waaagh, which could be a deciding factor too. I also like the super tank MK, or a hybrid with ironclad and metal rippers to chew through frostlords and mortek guards

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6 minutes ago, Kasper said:

AoS is funny in that regard - I mean I dont enjoy Fyreslayers using "their trick" to fight twice or when Plague Monks use "their trick" to fight twice after death etc. 😅 Where do you draw the line for "what isnt fair".  

I agree, though I just had to go through an entire tournament playing with a stardrake, having to explain that it can do damage on any move and not just normal move and exactly what the difference is... Did you try it at tournaments without complaints? 

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A lot of people seem to be talking about Ironjawz at the moment and basically taking:

Ironsunz

1-2 Maw-Krushas

2-3 other heroes

1-2 units of pigs

X units of Boys or Brutes to fill it out

Probably Ironfist

Make it about 1980 for a cheeky Triumph

 

Seems hard to go wrong with it right now. Good fun and smashy. 

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19 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

A lot of people seem to be talking about Ironjawz at the moment and basically taking:

Ironsunz

1-2 Maw-Krushas

2-3 other heroes

1-2 units of pigs

X units of Boys or Brutes to fill it out

Probably Ironfist

Make it about 1980 for a cheeky Triumph

 

Seems hard to go wrong with it right now. Good fun and smashy. 

Yea I was not too impressed with Ironsunz before, but that was a combination of realm artifacts and great command traits like Ironclad and Brutish Cunning becoming unavailable. Those traits are still better of course, but the -1 rend armor is much more attractive without access to ethereal (not as tough as ironclad+chamon armor though). That is probably still best for casual games, but in tournaments, there are some nasty alpha strikers out there, making the ironsunz -1 to be hit very valuable.

I am not so sure about the command trait and Ironsunz. 1 CP is not good, but at least it is somewhat useful. Alternatively if bringing a shaman, he can be the general and get the kunning trait for d3 CP, this might as well be 1 though and without a megaboss as general, Waaagh is not possible. I am really in doubt about this tradeoff.

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So for those looking for some diversity in their army models, Looks like the new bloodbowl contains four black Orks and one Black ork MVP that look like they would make a great squad of brutes, with little to no modifications. I know brutes aren't the most popular in the competitive scene, but they work just fine in my local meta, and the blood bowl models will be a welcome addition. Toss in the three new Orruk brutes coming soon in Beastgrave and we'll have a diversity of Orruk poses. Now if only we had game stats for a few more Orruk units and heroes to take advantage of the new sculpts. Oh well, the hero building point system in the new GHB will have to do as a substitute in casual games for now. 

 

 

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The BB models do look cool, hard to spot the base size though, but I guess that is only 33mm they are standing on, but can be fixed I guess.

Speaking of the underworlds, it would be so darn cool if those guys for AoS got a bodyguard rule... Imagine how much that could fix in the current meta, having some guys who could soak wounds for warchanters would go a long way! Oh well, most likely wont happen, GW just aint into low hanging fruit like that ;)

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37 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

The BB models do look cool, hard to spot the base size though, but I guess that is only 33mm they are standing on, but can be fixed I guess.

Speaking of the underworlds, it would be so darn cool if those guys for AoS got a bodyguard rule... Imagine how much that could fix in the current meta, having some guys who could soak wounds for warchanters would go a long way! Oh well, most likely wont happen, GW just aint into low hanging fruit like that ;)

I too have always felt the underworlds models were a huge missed opportunity to introduce some unique heroes to the various AOS factions. In some cases they did (Nighthaunt briar queen and Zarbag's gits come to mind) but for others you got a mediocre to sub par unit (Ironskulls boys i'm looking at you). I keep hping the new beastgrave Orruk Brute (Morgok's crushers) set would get either bodyguard status or include a "brute boss" that buffs nearby brute units. 

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If we accept the notion of the new meta being one of super-casters, and we simply bow out of the magic game by not bringing any wizards, is it still worth it to bring a Rogue Idol in an Ironjawz (or Big Waaagh) army?

It's 420 but still decent at punching things and have the Ironjawz keywords, so still gets all the Ironjaw buffs, especially Mighty Destroyers and Hand of Gork through Bloodtoof artefact if needs be.

 

Also those new Blood Bowl Black Orcs look like they could easily be moved to a 40mm base and double as Brutes. Especially if their hands gets replaced by spare Brute weapons. 🙂

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9 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said:

If we accept the notion of the new meta being one of super-casters, and we simply bow out of the magic game by not bringing any wizards, is it still worth it to bring a Rogue Idol in an Ironjawz (or Big Waaagh) army?

It's 420 but still decent at punching things and have the Ironjawz keywords, so still gets all the Ironjaw buffs, especially Mighty Destroyers and Hand of Gork through Bloodtoof artefact if needs be.

 

Also those new Blood Bowl Black Orcs look like they could easily be moved to a 40mm base and double as Brutes. Especially if their hands gets replaced by spare Brute weapons. 🙂

I'd definitely still consider him in Big Waaagh!, which could probably still manage to get some magic out with the right build. The combination of bonesplitterz and ironjawz buffs on it make it very powerful.

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Hello fellow Ironjawz generals,

I see most lists running 6 gore gruntas instead of two 3 man units. Curious why as their base size is rather large.

Thanks!

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1 minute ago, PlayerJ said:

Hello fellow Ironjawz generals,

I see most lists running 6 gore gruntas instead of two 3 man units. Curious why as their base size is rather large.

Thanks!

It is not too large though and Ironjawz really want to max the potential of +1 dmg from the warchanter and big nasty units, which are still a threat after losing some models, is the way to do it. 

Funny enough in these days of AoS bravery is still a thing for orruks and the brutes really suffer there, at least bigger units will reduce the CP spread to avoid runners with auto passes. 

If only warchanters could get the boss skewer or golden tooth... 

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7 hours ago, Spiky Norman said:

If we accept the notion of the new meta being one of super-casters, and we simply bow out of the magic game by not bringing any wizards, is it still worth it to bring a Rogue Idol in an Ironjawz (or Big Waaagh) army?

I know what you mean, but I'm not adverse to having a wizard or two in there still.

It's only Seraphon who has board wide unbinds, so with a 24" range on their buffing spells, Bonesplitterz wizards can generally do their thing from way back.  And the Wardokks are worth 80 points for their Dance alone, and casts are almost a bonus.

The Maniak Weirdnob and Weirdnob Shaman getting points hikes in the current meta was an insult, but I don't mind a Wardokk or three in my lists.  Maybe even a Prophet too.

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The points increase of the weirdnob shaman was crazy, especially considering destruction has wizards like the fungoid for 90 pts it makes no sense. The weirdnob is so generic and their warscroll spell is terrible, which also makes their single ability terrible. Even more so considering Ironjawz is a rather elite orruk force, so having a 10 model+ barrier for the single ability on the single wizards warscroll is incredibly poor design.

I love the model, but if it was not for the teleport spell I would never ever bring him. In a pure ironjawz list all the bonesplitterz wizards are useless as well, the fungoid is far better value point for point, with a 4+ ignore wound save, his 4 wounds is actually tougher to bring down than any of the other wizards, and he generates command points on 4+ and can also double cast once per game for 90 pts... who balances these things again?

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On 8/5/2020 at 10:10 AM, Kasper said:

Da Boss Fist isnt matched play legal anymore - See the GHB20 FAQ which answers this question. Basically if it is released prior to the GHB but not in the matched play points section, you cant play it. 

Could you give me the page or a picture of that? I don't find it! :(

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Big Waaagh can compete with the best magic army. Especially if you include Rogue Idol.

  • +1-2 cast by spending WP
  • +1 cast from Rogue Idol
  • +1 cast from Wardock
  • +1 cast from Artefact
  • Reroll failed cast (Weirnob only)

That's a potential +5 to cast, even seraphon will have hard time dispelling it.  Of course question still to answer is what you do with the magic.

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Next week i will participate in a 1000 pt. tournament, played on an 36x48 inch table. Following scenarios will be played (GHB 2019) : Escalation, Relocation Orb, Three Places of Power and Gifts from the heavens.

Now i'm trying to build a list. And this is what i came up with:

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (300)
- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 82


I dont know if one Warchanter is enough, so i build another one. But maybe there are too less bodys in the second one. 

 

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (200)
- 2x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (100)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Total: 990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 76

 

So what do you think? Which list is the better choice, and why? Thank you :)

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