AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Lanoss]

@VonSmall this is fun! 
The only problem I see is Gorefist move happens at the start of the hero phase, there you wouldn’t be able to puke then gorefist move 

[PlasticCraic]

I don't think that's correct @Lanoss

I don't have the book here, but I'm 99% certain that it's in your first Hero Phase (but not the start of).

Do you have the book there to verify?

You could also Mighty D them, or put them and the Brutes in an Ironfist (which is much better than Gorefist if you can rustle up 30 points).  But it should work with Gorefist too.

Edited May 21, 2020 by PlasticCraic

[VonSmall]

@Lanoss - Just double checked it and you are indeed correct. It would happen at the start. Alternative would be to ditch the Shaman and take another Warchanter with Luminary Rod. You are allowed to fire off the luminary rod at any time so could activate it before the Gorefist move and you're guaranteed to get a 9" line out of it.

Edit: Or alternatively you could take a Madcap Shaman  (80 points) with (30 points), give him luminary rod to hit your own unit in the hero phase, cast scuttletide and have your gruntas run near it if possible to take some more wounds and get an extra d6"

@PlasticCraic - The advantage of the Gorefist in this particular build is the all the pigs get to move without burning a CP. You're starting T1 with 2CP so you burn 1 to move the Krusha and then potentially the second to re-roll a charge or pop a Waaaagh.

Edited May 21, 2020 by VonSmall

[PlasticCraic]

14 minutes ago, VonSmall said:

 

@PlasticCraic - The advantage of the Gorefist in this particular build is the all the pigs get to move without burning a CP. You're starting T1 with 2CP so you burn 1 to move the Krusha and then potentially the second to re-roll a charge or pop a Waaaagh.

Fair

[Malakithe]

On 5/20/2020 at 12:42 PM, Malakree said:

The big question is, if Brutes were 100 points, would you take them over Ardboys? How low does their points need to be that they are actually usable?

The only reason I started IJ in the first place was the Brute and Krusha kits. I absolutely hate Ardboys and all they stand for. They dont fit into anything as far as IJ go. They dont look they same and their function is strange and all over the place. Just like the current state of Brutes. I only tolerate Ardboys when BB figures are used instead of the actual Ardboys.

#MakeBrutesGreatAgain

[NauticalSoup]

10 hours ago, Malakithe said:

They dont fit into anything as far as IJ go. They dont look they same and their function is strange and all over the place.

Or you could say that IJ didn't make enough of an effort to fit into the existing design ethos of black orcs. For their age, I maintain the black orc model is still pretty exceptional, as was much of the old plastic orc & goblin range. I'd honestly jettison the entire IJ range if it meant having more of that WHFB era stuff back without hesitation.

Second point doesn't really make sense - their function is very simple. They represent a high utility battleline choice with lots of warscroll abilities due to their old school kit design, and have competitively priced bodies to boot. They're just a good unit, the kind lots of armies wish they had for battleline. Brutes fall more into the Stormcast Eternal camp of AoS unit design; that is, "useless overpriced garbage on a huge base with no abilities". The real surprise is that there isn't like 2-3 different flavours of Brute with different but equally useless warscrolls! Now that would be some A-tier AoS 1.0 deign philosophy.

[SunStorm]

On 5/22/2020 at 10:10 AM, Malakithe said:

The only reason I started IJ in the first place was the Brute and Krusha kits. I absolutely hate Ardboys and all they stand for. They dont fit into anything as far as IJ go. They dont look they same and their function is strange and all over the place. Just like the current state of Brutes. I only tolerate Ardboys when BB figures are used instead of the actual Ardboys.

#MakeBrutesGreatAgain

Same, the Brute kit is fantastic, I think i'm on my 5th now and manage to make each unit different enough with some minor kitbashing. 

My Ardboys are a combo of the Underworlds boys and Blood Bowl orcs. Would like to see some more variety in the range, the Gore-Grunta kit for example isn't as good for making different units from the same kit, although i'm currently working on a warboss on grunta.

[MitGas]

Quick rule question: Does the Destroyer artefact on a megaboss add +3 damage to every single hit or just to the end result of all weapons? We're not sure but it was pretty wild to see the warboss dish out 30 wounds in a single round.  Thanks for any pointers!

[NauticalSoup]

1 minute ago, MitGas said:

Quick rule question: Does the Destroyer artefact on a megaboss add +3 damage to every single hit or just to the end result of all weapons? We're not sure but it was pretty wild to see the warboss dish out 30 wounds in a single round.  Thanks for any pointers!

"Pick one of the bearer’s melee weapons. Once per battle, at the start of the combat phase, you can add 3 to the Damage characteristic of that weapon until the end of that phase."

So the weapon has a damage characteristic of 5 for one phase. Or 6 with a Warchanter. Therefore, each unsaved attack will inflict that much damage. Since it is one weapon, it will not benefit the mount if it's on a maw krusha.

Getting 30 damage off one unit in Orruk Warclans is pretty typical. Gore gruntas can easily do 50 with a good charge.

[MitGas]

5 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

"Pick one of the bearer’s melee weapons. Once per battle, at the start of the combat phase, you can add 3 to the Damage characteristic of that weapon until the end of that phase."

So the weapon has a damage characteristic of 5 for one phase. Or 6 with a Warchanter. Therefore, each unsaved attack will inflict that much damage. Since it is one weapon, it will not benefit the mount if it's on a maw krusha.

Getting 30 damage off one unit in Orruk Warclans is pretty typical. Gore gruntas can easily do 50 with a good charge.

Thanks, awesome to know - we played it like that thankfully so no harm done (except for the receiving unit xD) but wow, that is indeed pretty sick! I'm pretty sure the Khorne guy in our group will be jealous when we tell him!

[5kaven5lave]

Hello chaps, might do some IJ once this is all over. Been thinking about this over a couple of days. If someone could oblige me by ripping this to bits I’d be grateful. Mainly thinking along the lines of: too many CP? Is it an ok number of Boys per unit and a good number of units? What’re the best weapon load outs for Boss and pigs? Cheers.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Ironclad  
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour  
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions  
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143
 

[TALegion]

@5kaven5lave

A couple notes on the list + your questions:

- If you take Ironsunz and make the boss your general, you need to take the Ironsunz's command trait. The other alternative is making the weirdnob your general because the rules specify that a 'megaboss' general has to take the Ironsunz's trait. The weirdnob can actually net you d3 CP with it's own trait (vs. the Ironsunz's 1 CP), but you'll lose access to Waaaagh, so there is a trade-off.

- As for CP, you are fine - it's hard to have too much in this army. You always have abilities that you can dump CP on, so more is always better. If anything, there may be an argument that Aetherquartz Brooch from Hysh could get you more CP than Great Green Visions. The other notable weirdnob option is the Shamanistic Skullcape, because Hand of Gork is so important to cast that +1 can be valuable.

- On Gore-Gruntas, the weapons come down to preference, though most IJ players choose Hackas over Choppas. In Big Waaagh, it's the reverse (Choppas > Hackas). Ideally, you want to charge with GGs and wipe out an enemy unit entirely, rather than deliver sustained damage, so the burst from Hackas is good default option.

[5kaven5lave]

8 hours ago, TALegion said:

@5kaven5lave

A couple notes on the list + your questions:

- If you take Ironsunz and make the boss your general, you need to take the Ironsunz's command trait. The other alternative is making the weirdnob your general because the rules specify that a 'megaboss' general has to take the Ironsunz's trait. The weirdnob can actually net you d3 CP with it's own trait (vs. the Ironsunz's 1 CP), but you'll lose access to Waaaagh, so there is a trade-off.

- As for CP, you are fine - it's hard to have too much in this army. You always have abilities that you can dump CP on, so more is always better. If anything, there may be an argument that Aetherquartz Brooch from Hysh could get you more CP than Great Green Visions. The other notable weirdnob option is the Shamanistic Skullcape, because Hand of Gork is so important to cast that +1 can be valuable.

- On Gore-Gruntas, the weapons come down to preference, though most IJ players choose Hackas over Choppas. In Big Waaagh, it's the reverse (Choppas > Hackas). Ideally, you want to charge with GGs and wipe out an enemy unit entirely, rather than deliver sustained damage, so the burst from Hackas is good default option.

This is amazing, thanks for getting back to me. The Weirdnob is probably the model that’s getting me into the army so I’d be very happy to have him as general and I’ll just tweak artefacts from there. Would like to run the AQB but I’m getting the impression some tournaments won’t be allowing the Malign Sorcery artefacts once they start up again so will probably go with the Visions. Skullcape also sounds rad though and I was considering it, would love for him to get lucky and smack down Kroak one day*. Will have some proxy games and see how it feels. Thanks again.

*never gonna happen

[5kaven5lave]

While peeps are being super helpful, just had a couple more questions if anyone has time.

First of all, the Ardfist CA - I’ve read the FAQ and it reads to me like if you fluff the 4+ roll you can spend more CP until you are successful and get the unit that died back, is that right? Don’t wanna be ‘that guy’ about it.

Secondly, is anyone giving shields to Ardboy units?

Also, I don’t play BB but I have a set of the Orcs from it, would they make good Ardboys with the right weapons attached?

Cheers. 

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

While peeps are being super helpful, just had a couple more questions if anyone has time.

First of all, the Ardfist CA - I’ve read the FAQ and it reads to me like if you fluff the 4+ roll you can spend more CP until you are successful and get the unit that died back, is that right? Don’t wanna be ‘that guy’ about it.

Secondly, is anyone giving shields to Ardboy units?

Also, I don’t play BB but I have a set of the Orcs from it, would they make good Ardboys with the right weapons attached?

Cheers. 

Hey man, will try to answer to the best of my ability:

- I believe you can, unless it has changed. A lot of strategies discussed many pages back relied on this. 

- Always max out your shields. 2 per 5. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain since the new warscrolls.

- I don't know what BB is.

[Vasshpit]

@5kaven5lave regarding BB (bloodbowl) orcs, this is a popular conversion choice. 

Do an image search for bloodbowl ironjawz or bloodbowl ardboyz conversion. you should find plenty of inspiration. 

[PlasticCraic]

 

11 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

While peeps are being super helpful, just had a couple more questions if anyone has time.

First of all, the Ardfist CA - I’ve read the FAQ and it reads to me like if you fluff the 4+ roll you can spend more CP until you are successful and get the unit that died back, is that right? Don’t wanna be ‘that guy’ about it.

The closing line seems pretty conclusive to me:

"You cannot use this command ability more than once per phase"

Only one attempt imo.

[5kaven5lave]

7 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

 

The closing line seems pretty conclusive to me:

"You cannot use this command ability more than once per phase"

Only one attempt imo.

Ah. Cheers, funny how reading something properly gives you the right answer eh? Time to get lucky rather than good then!!

[PlasticCraic]

Haha.  It's still a good Battalion imo.  Most people seem to prefer Ironfist, which is also excellent, but 120 points seems fair bordering on generous to me.

[VonSmall]

Agreed - when it gets you an extra CP worth 50 points, an artifact and the potential to get a load of points back. Absolute steal!

[5kaven5lave]

Is it worth giving the Fixin’ Beat to the battalion Warchanter so he can try to insure himself vs. long-distance MW chipping? Or is the +1 to hit vs. a unit within 12” less situational than it looks? Would he get into much combat or would you keep them back with the Weirdnob?

[5kaven5lave]

Well, did some gardenhammer and had an emphatic victory. Played vs. a pretty off-meta MSU Stormcast list but absolutely annihilated it, was chaining together Smashing and Bashing like crazy. Got a destroyed unit of Boys back with a 6 on my first roll. Feels brutal. Really going to enjoy playing it if this is anything to go by, though obviously tougher challenges are coming. 

[VonSmall]

On 6/12/2020 at 4:14 PM, 5kaven5lave said:

Is it worth giving the Fixin’ Beat to the battalion Warchanter so he can try to insure himself vs. long-distance MW chipping? Or is the +1 to hit vs. a unit within 12” less situational than it looks? Would he get into much combat or would you keep them back with the Weirdnob?

Absolutely worth giving him the fixin' beat. A mortal wound save (if non-book artifacts are allowed) is also a good shout.

[Jabbuk]

Hey guys, here's a quick question. I remember before our new book, that building brutes was a no-brainer. You build them with Choppas in groups of 5 with the boss Klaw.

Now that everything has changed with the new book for Brutes and that this configuration is less useful than let's say, a group of 10 with Gore-Hackas, I'm looking for ways to make my brutes useful and sometimes (only sometimes) just field them as a group of 10 w/hackas but they all have Choppas on

You guys have any ideas to bash them into Gore-Hackas? Or is the only solution to buy 2 other kits? (And since their warscroll is meh, I don't see this as a good investment)

[Ganigumo]

16 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Hey guys, here's a quick question. I remember before our new book, that building brutes was a no-brainer. You build them with Choppas in groups of 5 with the boss Klaw.

Now that everything has changed with the new book for Brutes and that this configuration is less useful than let's say, a group of 10 with Gore-Hackas, I'm looking for ways to make my brutes useful and sometimes (only sometimes) just field them as a group of 10 w/hackas but they all have Choppas on

You guys have any ideas to bash them into Gore-Hackas? Or is the only solution to buy 2 other kits? (And since their warscroll is meh, I don't see this as a good investment)

 

The math isn't as bad as it looks for units of 10. If you can get 5 within 1" the choppa variant will get 16 attacks, and the hackas will get 21. This looks bad, but once you lose 2 models it evens out, or if you can get one more brute in the difference is only 1 attack.

Something to keep in mind is gore-choppas have 2" range so they can still attack over your dual choppa brutes.