AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Kasper]

I came up with Maw Krusha, 2x Footboss, 2x Warchanter, Fungoid, 2x10 Brutes and 5 Brutes.

My issue is that you are slow as shite, no screen and one of the Footbosses is gonna be meh. If the batallion gave you an extra artefact so each Megaboss (3) could have been beefed up, it would feel better. Like one with SoJ and one with Metalripper or something.

 

I know you should never expect much from White Dwarf, but I was really hoping to finally play something else than Ironfist. The tax for this otherwise great batallion is just ughhh. 

[Skabnoze]

That would certainly be more interesting, but I don’t really mind the footbosses.  To me the prohibitive thing is requiring 2 footbosses AND a huge battalion cost.  
 

This battalion seems like a potentially fun way to run Brutes and also include some heroes in the battalion - which normally you can’t do.  This currently just does not seem like more than a 150 point battalion to me given the need to run 2 footbosses.

I may still give it a try since it does look fun to me.

[Skabnoze]

18 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I know you should never expect much from White Dwarf, but I was really hoping to finally play something else than Ironfist. The tax for this otherwise great batallion is just ughhh. 

It will be hard for anything to top, or even come close really, to the Ironfist simply due to what that battalion is.  It lets you fit just about all of the units in your army (regardless of type) and then effectively guarantees a free command every turn in an army designed around strong command abilities and starved for points.

You basically net between 2-5 free command points (not counting the one you get for including a battalion) and the only downside is that you have to use them to trigger Mighty Destoyers.  But that is easily the best command ability in the army and one you want to trigger every turn if you can anyways, so it is really not a negative at all.

On top of that the Ironfist lets you get access to Mighty Destroyers outside of the Ironjawz allegiance.  It would really be tough for GW to design another battalion that would compete with Ironfist.  
 

That said, at least all of the Ironjawz battalions are useful.  None are particularly bad - even these.  Ironjawz are pretty spoiled for battalions compared to many other armies  (including Bonesplitterz in the same book).

[Skabnoze]

@Malakree That list is not bad.  It would certainly be better with a second warchanter, but I might give it a go as is.  Although it is certainly not the best list to put together for dual Mawkrusha.

The more that I think about Da Boss Fist the more I am thinking that it might be good to lean into the 2 footbosses by trying to get artifacts on both of them and use them as cheap & offensive, albeit slow, units.  

I wonder if there is room to drop the second Mawkrusha and try to fit in an Ironfist.  You could also potentially drop one of the units of Brutes or just move it over to the Ironfist.  That would let you give an artifact to all 3 of the mega bosses and a free source of Mighty Deatroyers.

[Lanoss]

Feb’s White Dwarf’s Ironsunz battalions 

Must have Ironsunz subfaction

1 super battalion

2 battalion 

[Ravinsild]

You know I've been thinking... I do love the footboss model, a lot. Also when my Megaboss on Maw-Krusha dies (it always dies) sometimes I haven't Waaaghed because some of my units sometimes aren't in range to count it up and actually make it work. Perhaps a Footboss for a backup Waaagh just in case could be warranted? 

[Kasper]

3 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

You know I've been thinking... I do love the footboss model, a lot. Also when my Megaboss on Maw-Krusha dies (it always dies) sometimes I haven't Waaaghed because some of my units sometimes aren't in range to count it up and actually make it work. Perhaps a Footboss for a backup Waaagh just in case could be warranted? 

Not sure I understood you correctly, but you can always Waagh, even if your general is on his own. You will just “only” get +1 attack.

[Lanoss]

I think he means megabosses assist with racking up the unit count towards Waaaagh!

 

I would have liked a battalion that makes Big G better and worth his points. I just can’t seem to fit him anywhere:(

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

Not sure I understood you correctly, but you can always Waagh, even if your general is on his own. You will just “only” get +1 attack.

Well if your Megaboss on Maw-Krusha dies he can't use the ability.

Also I thought you had to roll 1d6 and add the amount of Ironjawz Units wholly within 24/18'' and the total has to come to 11 to get +1 attack, or 12+ for +2 attacks?

Also the General must be a Megaboss, so if my Maw-Krusha boss is the general then only he can waaagh so the footboss cannot. oops.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Ravinsild

[NauticalSoup]

"If the roll is up to 11, until the end of that phase add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly IRONJAWZ units wholly within 18" of your general. If the roll is 12 or more, until the end of that phase add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly IRONJAWZ units wholly within 18" of your general."

 

Edited February 18, 2020 by NauticalSoup
Bolding important bits

[Ravinsild]

2 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

"If the roll is up to 11, until the end of that phase add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly IRONJAWZ units wholly within 18" of your general. If the roll is 12 or more, until the end of that phase add 2 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly IRONJAWZ units wholly within 18" of your general."

 

Yeah I read that "up to" as "If the roll is equal to or greater than 11 add 1 to the attacks characteristic..." but I guess up to means 1 to 11? 

[NauticalSoup]

Just now, Ravinsild said:

Yeah I read that "up to" as "If the roll is equal to or greater than 11 add 1 to the attacks characteristic..." but I guess up to means 1 to 11? 

Up to means "less than or equal to". If it meant 11 exactly it would say so (since 12+ is the other result).

Interpreting it your way creates weirdness since you roll 12 and you have hit "greater than or equal to" both 11 and 12 so you get 3 attacks. So you would need more exclusionary language to make it either/or. 

[Lanoss]

Wait. Can’t we select a new general if the general dies? Or is that only for Open Play?

[Superninja]

only open play can select new general

 

[Kasper]

10 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Well if your Megaboss on Maw-Krusha dies he can't use the ability.

Also I thought you had to roll 1d6 and add the amount of Ironjawz Units wholly within 24/18'' and the total has to come to 11 to get +1 attack, or 12+ for +2 attacks?

Also the General must be a Megaboss, so if my Maw-Krusha boss is the general then only he can waaagh so the footboss cannot. oops.

I meant that you can always Waagh even with just himself being within range. As others have explained, it is "up to 11", so if he's alone and you roll a 1, you still get +1 attack. You can't fail getting +1 attack, only if you get 12 in which case it is +2.

I always use the Waagh. I'd rather use it one turn too early than one turn too late. It it a really big damage increase on pigs or even a unit of 10 Ardboyz. 

[PlasticCraic]

I did a write up on the new Battalions, which may be of interest to you guys :

https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/02/19/ironjawz-white-dwarf-battalions-leaks-and-analysis/

 

[Rentar]

What Da Bossfist needed to be:

Instead of +1 Attack, +1 rend to all weapons. Getting -2 rend on most weapons and -3 on the Mawkrusha fists would have been an amazing benefit against Ossiarch, especially Petrifex.

+1 Attack is nice, but it's not worth 220 points, especially when you need to sink 300 into Megabosses on foot.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Rentar

[Malakree]

10 minutes ago, Rentar said:

+1 Attack is nice, but it's not worth 220 points, especially when you need to sink 300 into Megabosses on foot.

That's the key point for me. Remove the requirement on 2 Footboss and make it 2 Megaboss instead so that it can be Maw-Krushas and Footbosses. That would make it much more usable as a double MK option.

 

EDIT: On a bit of a tangent.

The Rekruiting Krew is actually a really solid way to field large Brute units while also negating their low bravery. I can see it being solid at lower points.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Malakree

[Kasper]

44 minutes ago, Malakree said:

That's the key point for me. Remove the requirement on 2 Footboss and make it 2 Megaboss instead so that it can be Maw-Krushas and Footbosses. That would make it much more usable as a double MK option.

 

EDIT: On a bit of a tangent.

The Rekruiting Krew is actually a really solid way to field large Brute units while also negating their low bravery. I can see it being solid at lower points.

I liked the idea of mass Ardboyz immune to battleshock in Big Waagh, but unfortunately it is specifcally for Ironsunz. 

But then the question arises - Isn't Ardfist just simply better than having battleshock immune Ardboyz anyways? I'd say yes. 

So the 2 batallions are pretty much only for players wanting to field an almost entire Brutes army.

 

I keep wanting to try and make Da Bossfist work, but it is just no good. Even for double MK lists you'll be hardpressed to get much more than 1 Warchanter. To noones surprise, adding +1 attack is just nowhere near as good as adding +1 damage.

 

For both double MK and mass Brute armies you're likely much better off running a standard Ironfist list. You wont fit it all into a 1 drop anyways.

 

[Rentar]

1 hour ago, PlasticCraic said:

I did a write up on the new Battalions, which may be of interest to you guys :

https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/02/19/ironjawz-white-dwarf-battalions-leaks-and-analysis/

 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Megaboss (150)
Orruk Megaboss (150) 

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Da Bossfist (220)

Ironfist (160)

Total: 1740 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
 

You can make a 2k list with both Bossfist and Ironfist. Just saying. Your article seems to imply that it's impossible. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Rentar

[Kasper]

@Rentar I think that is about as good as it gets. Get 2 Warchanters and an additional CP and you'll be at 1990. 

Sunblessed on 1 footdude, Ethereal on the Maw and Metalripper on the other foot guy.

You'll start with 5 CPs and a 4+ to get a 6th. 4 drops.

 

I still think you'll be better off just going for a normal lronfist and simply get more bodies. With the above list you've tied almost 50% of your army into 3 heroes (2 of which are kinda ******) and the batallion. The Footbosses kinda scream for the Warchanter buff to be semi useful, but at the same time you really want it on Brutes since it almost doubles their damage output. The Maw Krusha has 2 attack profiles with almost 20 attacks combined, so Warchanter buff is again significant here.

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Kasper

[WaaaghMookie]

Mighty Destroyers question :

"You can use this command ability in your hero phase. If you do so... (yada yada regular move, yada yada charge move)...must fight if it is within 3" of any enemy units..."

Since the GHB 19 I've been playing it as a pile in and attack in the hero phase, looking again at the new book it doesnt explicitly say "pile in" just that it "must fight." 

Do we still get a pile in?  Is the pile in move a part of "fighting?"  Or do we now just attack with what is in weapon range?  Thanks!

[Kasper]

@WaaaghMookie The core rules says when you pick a unit to fight, it first piles in and then attacks.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Kasper

[Lanoss]

I’ll be giving this a red hot go I reckon

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad / Mount Trait: Fast ‘Un
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour 
Orruk Megaboss (150)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 2x Gore Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 2x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Extra Command Point (50)

Da Boss Fist (220)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116

 

Its a 3 drop. Starts with minimum 4 cp. And the Megaboss with the Sunblessed Armour can sit in cover near an objective for a 2+ save reducing rend by 1. Meanwhile those brute units are hitting with 48/41/24 attacks respectively 

[DerZauberer]

Woah, this list just has so much flavour. Its literally called "Da Boss Fist" and just has all those beatiful bosses (6!) and brutes, like, super elite stuff, nothing weaker then a brute. I hope so much this establishes itself somehow and works, i can't feel but pure joy looking at such a list.

I still think the Footboss isn't as much a tax as we think it is, but I agree the cost of this battalion alone is a bit hefty. 

I need to know how this list worked for you @Lanoss!