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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

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I came back for my first game with the battletome in like 6months or something against Idoneth Deepkin and got crushed so bad it once again has removed any desire to be in this hobby. 

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6 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I came back for my first game with the battletome in like 6months or something against Idoneth Deepkin and got crushed so bad it once again has removed any desire to be in this hobby. 

I started out with Beasts of Chaos and pretty much lost every game (list wasnt optimized) I played with that army. It was heartbreaking really. Turns out the army in general is kinda ****** and it makes it super hard for a new guy to win.

Ironjawz is really solid though. What list did you play? And what did you play against? Was it mass eels?

If you havent played for a long time and had a game vs a regular dude, you shouldnt expect to crush him. 

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1 hour ago, Kasper said:

I started out with Beasts of Chaos and pretty much lost every game (list wasnt optimized) I played with that army. It was heartbreaking really. Turns out the army in general is kinda ****** and it makes it super hard for a new guy to win.

Ironjawz is really solid though. What list did you play? And what did you play against? Was it mass eels?

If you havent played for a long time and had a game vs a regular dude, you shouldnt expect to crush him. 

I ran Bloodtoofs Clan with a MawKrusha, 2 Warchanters, 1 Weirdknob, 2 x 5 brutes, 2 x 10 ArdBoyz, 6 Gore Gruntas and 1 extra CP. 

I chose mean ‘Un for my mount trait, gave my MBMK the Quickduff. 
 

he had 2 x 6 eels 1 x 3 eels, the huge turtle, 1 x 2 Sharks and the named character in seahorse and I guess a regular guy on seahorse. 
 

I killed my self turn 3 by charging in with MKMB, 6 GGs and 5 brutes and he apparently fights first in a row without letting me fight and just wiped my charge. 

Turn 1 he literally said “I pass” and did nothing at all so crept up the board super slow. 
 

turn 2 he finally moved forward so I moved forward and killed the 2 sharks and 3 eels with 10 ArdBoyz and my MBMK. 
 

my other 10 ArdBoyz got stuck in with 6 eels and the turtle and promptly died doing little. 
 

turn 3 I got the double turn teleported my 6 GGs into his backfield to charge his unnamed Character, charged of unit of my 5 brutes and my MBMK into his turtle and 6 eels. 
 

He popped some command point to give everyone within some inches +1 to all melee attacks twice and fought first and blew me off the board. GG. 
 

it was relocation orb. I had managed to steal it bottom of turn 2. I called it at bottom of turn 3 when he wiped my 5 brutes, 10 ArdBoyz, MBMK and 6 GGs so all I had left was 2 Warchanters, 1 Weirdknob, 5 brutes and 9 ArdBoyz against his turtle, 2 heroes and 12 eels. 

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34 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

he apparently fights first in a row

You should ask what his army is capable of... If you knew you wouldn't have went in like that (or at least shouldn't have). He also should offered the info if it was just a friendly game (****** move if you ask me). This game need experience to win. If you get an S-teir army then maybe you can do whatever a pull a win. But the more experienced player will win almost every game 

Edited by Chase

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

he had 2 x 6 eels 1 x 3 eels, the huge turtle, 1 x 2 Sharks and the named character in seahorse and I guess a regular guy on seahorse. 

 

I killed my self turn 3 by charging in with MKMB, 6 GGs and 5 brutes and he apparently fights first in a row without letting me fight and just wiped my charge.

But that the thing - Almost all armies have something that is crazy strong, and if you are unfamiliar with the mechanic and play according to your opponents plan, you will get crushed.

You should ask for a rematch and try to play much more aggressive. You now know he wants to fight in turn 3, so your aim should be to already get into combat in turn 1 (Mighty Destroyers help with this) and hope to break him entirely during turn 2.

I would reconsider going Ironsunz - Would give you a massive advantage (-1 hit) during turn 1 where his buffs arent online. Eels are quite strong if they get the charge off, but if they get charged by either a buffed Maw Krusha or 6 buffed pigs, they will get crushed and you get to smack other stuff with Smashing and Bashing.

Edited by Kasper

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6 hours ago, Kasper said:

But that the thing - Almost all armies have something that is crazy strong, and if you are unfamiliar with the mechanic and play according to your opponents plan, you will get crushed.

You should ask for a rematch and try to play much more aggressive. You now know he wants to fight in turn 3, so your aim should be to already get into combat in turn 1 (Mighty Destroyers help with this) and hope to break him entirely during turn 2.

I would reconsider going Ironsunz - Would give you a massive advantage (-1 hit) during turn 1 where his buffs arent online. Eels are quite strong if they get the charge off, but if they get charged by either a buffed Maw Krusha or 6 buffed pigs, they will get crushed and you get to smack other stuff with Smashing and Bashing.

Yeah it kind of felt super ****** of him to just pass first turn. That annoyed me. 
 

However because he did I wouldn’t have really been able to get in turn 1 or 2. 
 

Unless I swap the way I play putting the gore Gruntas and cabbage up front and yeeting them across the field turn 1 as aggro as humanly possibly and then slowly chasing with my brutes and ArdBoyz as the second wave...?

also I have 9 GGs overall, 60 ArdBoyz (no Shields I need to buy more and make them all shield boys) and 25 brutes, 3 or 4 Warchanters, 4 Weirdknobs and 2 cabbages, 2 Footboss. 
 

so I can make pretty much any list I guess. I’m just not sure what combination or how many units or drops or whatever. 

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51 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

so I can make pretty much any list I guess. I’m just not sure what combination or how many units or drops or whatever. 

I ran this at heat 1 this weekend and I played vs Ian for 4th game 5. Game was won on the turn 2 priority so definately a strong list.

Also plays the first turn far more cautious than Ironjawz which sounds like it would fit your playstyle.

If you don't have a wurrgog swap him for a weirdnob and upgrade the 5 brutes to 10 ardboys.

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14 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Yeah it kind of felt super ****** of him to just pass first turn. That annoyed me. 
 

However because he did I wouldn’t have really been able to get in turn 1 or 2. 
 

Unless I swap the way I play putting the gore Gruntas and cabbage up front and yeeting them across the field turn 1 as aggro as humanly possibly and then slowly chasing with my brutes and ArdBoyz as the second wave...?

also I have 9 GGs overall, 60 ArdBoyz (no Shields I need to buy more and make them all shield boys) and 25 brutes, 3 or 4 Warchanters, 4 Weirdknobs and 2 cabbages, 2 Footboss. 
 

so I can make pretty much any list I guess. I’m just not sure what combination or how many units or drops or whatever. 

Well you can Mighty Destroyers the Maw Krusha = 24" move + 2D6+2 charge. Do the same to the pigs and they move 18" + 2D6+2. On most battleplans you are 24" apart. Since you play Bloodtoffs you can rely on being able to teleport a unit of Ardboyz 9" away from something and all you would need is a 5+ on 2D6. If the Ardboyz and pigs are buffed by Warchanters, they will most likely wipe a unit of Eels, depending on how big the unit of Eels is and how many Ardboyz you have. That means you just removed 3 very strong units back to back due to Smashing and Bashing without him being able to hit you at all. The rest of your units you just run forward and have them trickle in during turn 2.

If you don't like to alpha him turn 1, you can just run everything forward and set up for turn 2.

Anyways, the point is that your list is quite good, but the sole reason you lost was because you played into his pocket due to lack of knowledge/inexperience of how Deepkin likes to play. I'm pretty sure your next game will be different. ;) 

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Would it be worth it dropping Bloodtoofs clan?

Pros:
- Instant HOG that cannot be countered

- +1 to Charge and Run Rolls

- Movement Command Ability at the end of the combat phase to reposition or put on more pressure, or even move to an objective

- An automatic +2 to WAAAGH Command Ability (Easier to get 12)

Cons:
- Don't get to choose General's Command trait

- Don't get to choose Artefact (Missing out on Metalripper's Klaw

That's really it, but it might make a massive difference in being able to choose my command trait and Artefact. Ironclad is popular I've seen, plus Metalripper's Klaw. Etc... Just considering maybe going "Clanless" may provide some benefits? 

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16 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Would it be worth it dropping Bloodtoofs clan?

Pros:
- Instant HOG that cannot be countered

- +1 to Charge and Run Rolls

- Movement Command Ability at the end of the combat phase to reposition or put on more pressure, or even move to an objective

- An automatic +2 to WAAAGH Command Ability (Easier to get 12)

Cons:
- Don't get to choose General's Command trait

- Don't get to choose Artefact (Missing out on Metalripper's Klaw

That's really it, but it might make a massive difference in being able to choose my command trait and Artefact. Ironclad is popular I've seen, plus Metalripper's Klaw. Etc... Just considering maybe going "Clanless" may provide some benefits? 

I think you've got the right idea on the pros and cons. Their clan artefact is good, but it takes up such an important slot (your maw krusha's) that it's hard to imagine it being worth more then an Ethereal Amulet, Metalrippa's Klaw, Gryph-Hound Feather, etc. The run/charge bonus and command ability are pretty useful, but not necessarily game-changing.

You can try running without a clan. Brutish Cunning and Ironclad are definitely two of the more popular traits for a clanless army. Running other clans could be a fun experiment, too, since they each have pretty unique abilities. Ironsunz is very popular and versatile while Da Choppaz is great for ardboy and brute-heavy lists.

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I've thought of the list as follows:

HQ:
MBMK
Warchanter
Warchanter
Weirdknob Shaman

Battleline:
6 GG w/ Jagged Gore-Hackas
3 GG w/ Pig Iron Choppa
3 GG w/ Pig Iron Choppa
20 Ardboyz 

Battalion:
Ironfist

1 CP 50 pts

2000 points flat

Then I could keep Bloodtoofs and run it as I had, or drop that and go with as forementioned Brutish Cunning and that saves me 2 CP (Free Mighty Destroyers for Ironfist, Free Mighty Destroyers for Brutish Cunning) and pick up the Great Big Hand of Gork. 

Turn 1 could potentially look like:

Free MD: MBMK
Free MD: 6 unit GG
1 CP MD: 3 GG moves
1 CP MD: 3 GG Moves
Kind of hard to pull off but possibly HoG: Ardboyz teleport

Now there's a right proper good chance everyone can get stuck in and do some massive damage. Or you know fail all my charges and cry when I get smashed but I mean that's dice so it's a 50/50 either way :P

heck I'd still have 1 CP leftover for WAAAGH or whatever's worth using it on. 

Even if I didn't move everyone in turn 1 I can still at least get MBMK and 6 GG in for sure (more than likely) for at least some big hits. 

This list seems very versatile?

Only 2 problems with my real life army: I don't own any pig boyz with Jagged Gore-Hacks so I'd need to buy 6 more. I don't own ANY shield Ardboyz. So 2 Start Collecting boxes gives me 20 more Ardboyz (that takes me up to like 80 -_-) but that I can actually put shields on (yay shields!) and 6 GG I can build with Jagged Gore-Hackas. So really the solution is there it's just a matter of finances. 

 

EDIT:
I checked the GW Website. Seems I missed the Warscroll Cards for like the easy access warscrolls on the paper cards and the dice and either the endless spells are sold out too...or just...we didn't get any?

Edited by Ravinsild

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1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

EDIT:
I checked the GW Website. Seems I missed the Warscroll Cards for like the easy access warscrolls on the paper cards and the dice and either the endless spells are sold out too...or just...we didn't get any?

 

Warclans don't have any Endless Spells.

Also just buy some shields from a bits seller and put em on your existing ardboys, there's only 2 shields for every 5 Ardboys on the sprue so buying new ones is a terrible way to add shields to the ones you already have.

Edited by NauticalSoup

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28 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

 

 

Warclans don't have any Endless Spells.

Also just buy some shields from a bits seller and put em on your existing ardboys, there's only 2 shields for every 5 Ardboys on the sprue so buying new ones is a terrible way to add shields to the ones you already have.

Well I do actually need the Gore Gruntas cuz I only have 3 sets. It's been repeated never buy the Gore Gruntas on their own, so I may as well get shield boys out of it too. Or I could just by 2 boxes of gore grunts and rip the arms off some of my Ardboyz. Pretty sure I saved my bits somewhere around here I can stick on the extra bodies. So I can make 20 shield boys to dip into sets of Ardboyz as I bring more or less. 

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So i have my 2 sc boxes coming in this week, should i build my ardboys with shield? is that more Meta at the moment and lose out on an attack?

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21 minutes ago, bigpaul0909 said:

So i have my 2 sc boxes coming in this week, should i build my ardboys with shield? is that more Meta at the moment and lose out on an attack?

Look up the new warscrolls.

You need 2 shields per 5, 1 drummer per 5 and a banner or icon per 5.

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4 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Look up the new warscrolls.

You need 2 shields per 5, 1 drummer per 5 and a banner or icon per 5.

gotcha, do the sc boxes come with 2sbgield per 5/1 drummer option/5? i havent looked at the sprus i dont have them yet.

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2 minutes ago, bigpaul0909 said:

gotcha, do the sc boxes come with 2sbgield per 5/1 drummer option/5? i havent looked at the sprus i dont have them yet.

They should come with enough bits. You need to see the sprus really cos they are a bit odd. 

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1 hour ago, bigpaul0909 said:

gotcha, do the sc boxes come with 2sbgield per 5/1 drummer option/5? i havent looked at the sprus i dont have them yet.

If I remember correctly, they do come with every bit that you need to max out the equipment you can bring, which should be 1 banner, 1 drum, and 2 shield per every 5 models. Each unit of Ardboyz also comes with a boss who has a different weapon (a 2-handed axe with a skull on a chain attached), which is also supplied.

Essentially, there's no reason to not take all of the bonus equipment since they're all positive buffs. So just build all of your models with those bits first and then make regular dudes with whatever's left

Edited by TALegion
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39 minutes ago, TALegion said:

Essentially, there's no reason to not take all of the bonus equipment since they're all positive buffs. So just build all of your models with those bits first and then make regular dudes with whatever's left

You get 2 regular dudes per 5 minus one for the boss.

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Took the list below to cancon and went 5 major wins and a minor loss, finishing 9th/222. Found the list to be awesome really, so much flexibility and I only went full alpha strike once during the tournament against big waaagh and got the win. Played hermdar fireslayers twice, skaven twice, khorne and big waagh. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz

- Warclan: Ironsunz

Mortal Realm: Hysh

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)

- General

- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad

- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour

- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un

Orruk Warchanter (110)

- Warbeat: Killa Beat

Orruk Warchanter (110)

- Warbeat: Killa Beat

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)

- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch

- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)

- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers

- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers

10 x Orruk Brutes (280)

- Jagged Gore-hackas

- 2x Gore Choppas

5 x Orruk Brutes (140)

- Pair of Brute Choppas

- 1x Gore Choppas

6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)

- Pig-iron Choppas

Ironfist (160)

 

Total: 1960 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 138

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15 hours ago, Brodylan said:

Took the list below to cancon and went 5 major wins

"But, but, Brutes are trash!"

Good going. Way to represent team green. Cheers bro! 

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Before I decide to NOT use Bloodtoofs, how does this look:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Quickduff Amulet
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
- 4x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
 

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