AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Rock Lobster]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

I do think he played it out wrong and got punished for it.

You teleport the ardboys then when you charge you tag one end while remaining 3" from the keepers so they don't get brought into combat leaving them pinned in the deployment zone.

On the opponents turn they ten shuffle and try to charge/eliminate your ardboys. Crucially they have missed the turn 1 summoning window, lost some of their screen and are now pinned into their deployment zone while you get to run up the board.

If you get priority turn 2 you bomb and clean him from the board. If not it depends on how many ardboys survived and whether you manage to screen then off the key units. Potentially you then need to gamble on turn 3 prio or you can just go for the bomb clean anyway.

In this situation the extra charge and run is massive. It makes you so much quicker and lets you better setup after the ardboy charge. The reduced waaagh! Requirement is also huge if you drop turn 2 prio as it means dropping to 4/5 units doesn't cripple you.

So I disagree I see it as player error not build error and -1 to hit doesn't stop 2 double attacking keepers from tearing your ardboys apart while still generating enough to summon an extra keeper.

Assuming this was supposed to respond to my post.

Definitely a player error. Although in this situation (anecdotal as i may be) about 20 wounds were off the back of attacks hitting on 3s which would have been a nice little saving. having 18 guys with shields would have been another 7 wounds saved, so 16 ardboyz left alive even after that tactical blunder would have pinned me in place another turn and cost me all 4 command points over his turn and my turn to kill them off, leaving me with no CP. If ironjawz win the roll there would be the option to waagh charge in and using smashing and bashing pick up the keepers.

 

[DanteeChaos]

I was holding out with assembling my second squad of brutes for the new battletome but since we're probably not getting one anytime soon I decided to do it now. My first squad has a boss with the claw and brute smasha, 1 brute with a gore-choppa and 3 regular brutes with two brute choppas.

My question - can a single squad of brutes have a mixture of two brute choppas and jagged gore-hackas? Their warscroll description makes me believe that it's legal but in both battlescribe and the official warscroll builder you can select either one or the other.

Second question - is it worth it to build a 10-man squad (this is assuming that we build a boss, 2 gore-choppas, 3 jagged gore-hackas and 4 double choppa brutes - so that they form 2 lines with the range 2" weapons staying in the back line)? One one hand, a single warchanter can affect all 10 brutes with his buff. It's also easier for the 10-man squad to stay in range of the megaboss brute buff. On the other hand, we're missing out on a second brute boss (who, in my experience, is really powerful) and we have less units for the waaagh command ability.

Third question - if we're going with 2 separate squads, is it worth it to build 1 brute in each squad with a jagged gore-hacka? That way we can place 2 double choppa brutes along with the boss in the front line and keep the jagged gore-hacka and gore-hacka in the back line. We're losing 1 attack in theory, however, brutes have big bases, making their pile in to the desired target harder,  so in some scenarios this might give us an advantage.

[Warmill]

No brutes can't mix and match hackas and choppas. As per the faq the ardboyz scroll says models carry weapons while the brute scroll says units.

[Malakree]

So, since I'm normally the one answering I decided this time I'd ask a question of the community. I'm going to a tournament the week after next and taking my IJ out for a spin after a long absence (and even longer not running an odd list)

I'm thinking of a few different lists, one super wacky and the others variations on a concept. I can't decide which one I like the most from a competitive stance and or the little things.

Quote

Lulz Cablitz

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Guardan's Coronet 
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Ironsunz (80)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 3
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114

So Idea behind this is simple and hilarious. Take priority turn 1,  Pop Guardians Coronet on the General, use Mighty Destroyers and his normal move to get 24" across the board and then charge while the rest of the army moves up.

You now have a cabbage with 15-17 wounds, RR1's to save, -1 to hit and with a 4++ vs normal wounds in the enemies face.

This is the more wacky list based around having 2 cabbages and compensating for the lack of a weirdnob using silly tactics. Has the advantage that depending on your opponents army etc you might be able to get on a key character and smush it first turn.

Quote

Gorks Green Vanilla

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: The Boss Skewer 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (280)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Mega-battalion (80)

Total: 1760 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126

The base list I'm building from, though there are some questions as to how I finish it off and which spell I want.

Obviously the first question is which megabattalion, personally I like Bloodtoofs a lot more than most of you seem to but I'm not ruling out Ironsunz, I think that actually comes down to how the list is finished.

So the options available are +10 Ardboys (unit of 30), +5 Brutes (unit of 10), a fungoid cave shaman, a command point, a second warchanter and a balewind vortex.

Quote

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Balewind Vortex (40)

Extra Command Points: 1 (50)
Total: 570 

Given that I only have 240 points remaining you can see how it's a bit...tight. I think the composition of the additions I have boils down to approximately these.

Spoiler

Quote

10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Extra Command Points: 1
Total: 230
Triumph: 10 points

I would run Bash Em Ladz on the Weirdnob and then try to power the ardboys across the board as a screen.
Leaning towards Bloodtoofs because I'm hoofing it rather than teleporting.
This feels like I might be trying to combine the other options without committing to any.

Quote

10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
Fungoid Cave Shaman (90)
Extra Command Points: 0
Total: 230
Triumph: 10 points

Obvious hand of Gork choice.
Either Battalion feels fine here, not sure which I'd use.
This is the most vanilla option I feel.

Quote

5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
Extra Command Points: 1
Total: 220
Triumph: 20 points

Hand of Gork.
Needs Ironsunz to support the 20 Ardboys rather than 30.

Quote

5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Extra Command Points: 0
Total: 210
Triumph: 30 points

Built for Bash Em Lads.
Again not sure, Ironsunz makes it less likely I lose stuff but Bloodtoofs reduces the penalty for losing stuff.
The most risky option, I lose the teleport and don't gain the meat shield, also no extra command point. If I do get the bomb off though it should be horrific.

Quote

10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
Warchanter (80)
Extra Command Points: 0
Total: 220
Triumph: 20 points

Hand of Gork
Both feel fine.
This is the option which attracts me the least.

 

So yeah a general feeler for what you guys think of the 6(?) options. I'm having a game sunday night at club and ideally want to use it to practice so I need to pick by then. Been agonising over this for the past 3 days.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Malakree

[Kasper]

New book that combines both Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz? Daaaaym that sounds hot 😍

[Someone2]

So anyone got any news about that Orruk Battleclans battletome that has just been teased?

I'm for one sure afraid that this means the end for Ironjawz.. the models of the naked orruks and ironjawz don't match at all from a aesthetic point of view. And like with Skaven Clans, you really handicap yourself by purely selecting only 1 clan for every unit. You should always put 1 or 2 from another for the meta.

What are your opinions about his upcoming book?

[Malakithe]

5 minutes ago, Someone2 said:

So anyone got any news about that Orruk Battleclans battletome that has just been teased?

I'm for one sure afraid that this means the end for Ironjawz.. the models of the naked orruks and ironjawz don't match at all from a aesthetic point of view. And like with Skaven Clans, you really handicap yourself by purely selecting only 1 clan for every unit. You should always put 1 or 2 from another for the meta.

What are your opinions about his upcoming book?

Yeah strange move even from a lore point of view. IJ dont like working with other greenskins usually since they think everyone is inferior to them. Now the 'end for Ironjawz' no way. New book means new and updated rules and warscrolls and points. Again..just after GH19 lol

[Skumbaagh]

Yeah I was hoping this ghb bump meant a late coming tome with new models bringing IJ to top meta. 

So now I have about 10k points of IJ with 20 queued ardboys for painting, and I need to buy into the savages as well... Great. This new book coming up says to me that there is no use experimenting on the ghb rules. I am working hard on getting the ardfist in a state where I can bring it to the top tables, now that seems kind of pointless. 

But sure I am glad we are getting something, I was hoping for something totally new thou. 

Looks like there is a couple of stone made totems coming our way 

[Malakithe]

I wonder if they will simply roll the GH2019 stuff into this one as the IJ part. They might update the Bonesplitterz since that hasnt changed at all then there is the combo allegiance 

[Kasper]

It states that the book will allow both pure Ironjawz, pure Bonesplitterz and then a mix. It is optional. I wouldnt be too worried.

[Malakithe]

2 minutes ago, Kasper said:

It states that the book will allow both pure Ironjawz, pure Bonesplitterz and then a mix. It is optional. I wouldnt be too worried.

Right but im just guessing that they will simply roll the new IJ stuff from GH2019 into his book as their solo allegiance. Bonesplitterz on the other hand might see some updates to theirs. I hope there is more points reductions throughout though

[Skumbaagh]

3 minutes ago, Kasper said:

It states that the book will allow both pure Ironjawz, pure Bonesplitterz and then a mix. It is optional. I wouldnt be too worried.

Too worried about what? Getting new models? 😂

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, Skumbaagh said:

Too worried about what? Getting new models? 😂

No as in this isnt “the end of Ironjawz” 🤪

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Someone2 said:

So anyone got any news about that Orruk Battleclans battletome that has just been teased?

I'm for one sure afraid that this means the end for Ironjawz.. the models of the naked orruks and ironjawz don't match at all from a aesthetic point of view. And like with Skaven Clans, you really handicap yourself by purely selecting only 1 clan for every unit. You should always put 1 or 2 from another for the meta.

What are your opinions about his upcoming book?

Ive got a reliable date from one of the designers that it will "be out before the end of the year" 🙄

[Malakithe]

17 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Ive got a reliable date from one of the designers that it will "be out before the end of the year" 🙄

Oh good...that only leaves 5 months of anxiety to deal with

[Skumbaagh]

 

13 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Oh good...that only leaves 5 months of anxiety to deal with

My guess is within the coming month since the book was on display 

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, Skumbaagh said:

 

My guess is within the coming month since the book was on display 

Im betting preorders sometime during next month. Im curious if they are gonna release additional models, if the warscrolls will get an update or if they just continue onwards with the current model range and just slap the current rules into one book for both factions.

[Jabbuk]

Oh wow! That announcement is so cool and unexpected! It's a good time to be an Orruk. I wonder if we will get some terrain pieces like all the other factions that got revisited. Do you guys think so? Terrain and Endless Spells.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Rock Lobster]

I would urge everyone to be considering this a very positive development.

For those worried about having to pick up bonesplitters now, don’t worry, it explicitly says pure armies and mixed armies. If a stronger army can be made by adding bonesplitters then don’t consider that being forced, but a bonus that you can access if you choose to make your force even stronger.

The reality is that unless the mechanics of ironjawz change a lot, there is little benefit to diluting your army with other units. The more units you have and taking the big battalions makes ironjawz strong and a force half the size is far less than half the effectiveness if diluted with a bunch of bonesplitters.

the biggest deal here is new wars rolls. Our warscrolls are so broken it would be amazing to have ones that work. Maybe brutes are worth their points, maybe the list of battalions and functionally useful. Maybe the mawkrusha becomes stronger to justify the points. Could be all kinds of great things happening. 

[Ravinsild]

Hey I have a strange rules question and yes I did read the Ironjawz FAQ first. 

Since you can do anything in the hero phase in the order of your choosing, based on the words as written, as far as I can see, nothing prevents you from using Da Big Green Hand a’ Gork and THEN the Ironfist hero phase movement is there? 

You can’t  move later in the movement phase but nothing seems to ban or counteract using the Ironfist hero movement dice after using the teleport, right? 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Ravinsild

[Luzgurbel]

Yes, you can.

[Skumbaagh]

Yup. Ironfist movement (and ardfist deployment) were stuff that was believed to be FAQed. Never happened thou. 

[Malakree]

10 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Hey I have a strange rules question and yes I did read the Ironjawz FAQ first. 

Since you can do anything in the hero phase in the order of your choosing, based on the words as written, as far as I can see, nothing prevents you from using Da Big Green Hand a’ Gork and THEN the Ironfist hero phase movement is there? 

You can’t  move later in the movement phase but nothing seems to ban or counteract using the Ironfist hero movement dice after using the teleport, right? 

Yep totally legal.

There's also some dodgy stuff with the Ardfist where you can summon them in any phase at any time now. So you can use that to get around the can't move or Warchanter potentially dying. You can also summon them on, hand of gork, mighty destroyers them  

Edited July 21, 2019 by Malakree

[Krallkontir]

Hi All,

Long time lurker but I have a tournament coming up in August where I am looking to try something a little different with my Ironjawz. It is a fairly standard list but has a significant (for Ironjawz) focus on magic with two Weirdnob Shamans and a Fungoid Cave-Shaman with the Arachnacauldron to give me access to Itchy Nuisance and other ranged damage spells. The Weirdnobs would have Hand of Gork and Power of the Waagghh respectively. Keeping my army tight around my shamans early game allows me to approximately deal 3 D3 mortals within 24" + D3 mortals within 12" (Vindictive Glare) + Wraithbow. Good for picking off small characters or weakening big ones before Hand of Gorking in Ardboyz of charging in the Mawcrusha.  I also have 20pts towards a triumph.

I have a few different artifact loadouts that I would like opinions on:

Ulgu:

- Doppleganger Cloak for the Mawcrusha

- Sword of Judgement for the Warchanter (item going off on a 5+)

- Betrayer's Crown on a Weirdnob (thinning hordes or a heroic last stand)

Hysh:

- Aetherquartz Broach for the Warchanter

- Mirrored Cuirass for the Mawcrusha

- Luminary Rod for a Weirdnob (adding to the ranged damage)

Shyish:

- See below

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: The Ragged Cloak 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Wraithbow 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (280)
- 8x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 12x Big Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (140)
- 6x Choppa or Smasha & Shields
- 4x Big Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Bloodtoofs (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Scrapskuttle's Arachnacauldron (40)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141

[Jabbuk]

Here's a quick one. You have a Megaboss on foot as your general and have 130pts left in your army. Your army comp is roughly ardboys, GGs and a group of brutes.

Would you take a Warchanter and an extra command point? Or take a Shaman and have 10 pts left?

Which synergy is the most important here?

Edited July 26, 2019 by Jabbuk