AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Bobberto]

Yeah, with a 12" bubble of Get 'Em Beat, counting for 30(!) models on a point, and a 6+ ward (esp. with Amulet nerfed to 6), he's certainly starting to look like the scary god of destruction he was meant to be.

[NauticalSoup]

52 minutes ago, Malakree said:

OMFG Kragnos just got amazing...

Lot of changes to digest. He's still 720 points unfortunately.

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

37 minutes ago, NauticalSoup said:

Lot of changes to digest. He's still 720 points unfortunately.

That 3d6 charge aura seems really nice, though.

The new warscroll really hit all the areas where Kragnos felt kind of lacking before. The 3d6 charge aura gives him mobility and lets him actually synergize with the armies he is in. Letting him count as extra models for the objective game makes him relevant in other ways than just as a beat stick. 6+ ward is not much, but on a 2+ save model it's something. All in all, he seems like a fairly nice pick to me, at least for, like, optimized casual lists. We'll have to see if he's tournament viable, though.

Rolling 3d6 to charge seem really nice for Ogor armies, too, given that their impact hits key off of the number they roll to charge.

[NauticalSoup]

It's a huge improvement but 720 points is still such a massive investment the guy is going to need to win games single-handed. It's a high bar, probably too high for anything but the most bonkers warscrolls, and I'm not sure kragnos gets there given he's still gonna be prone to wasting time eating screens, and while the defensive boosts are good (re: better than nothing) they aren't quite at the level a piece this expensive needs.

[5kaven5lave]

So, what’s the artefact for a MBoMK now? Or is there even one worth having?

[Bobberto]

I'm not sure it's changed. A 6+ ward is better than no ward.

If you aren't married to a different mount trait, Armor of Gork/Fast 'Un is a good combo - the free move offsets the speed penalty, and AoG giving the +1 to hit in addition to a 6+ ward is solid. But a lot of double MK lists were doing both that and Amulet anyway.

I could see an argument that double MK lists will take one with AoG/Fast 'Un and one with Destroyer, but I think most that invest that many points will want some protection for them.

[Malakree]

4 hours ago, NauticalSoup said:

Lot of changes to digest. He's still 720 points unfortunately.

He now has the survivability to go with his crazy damage output and the extra utility of the 3d6 charge is great especially since it applies to himself.

EDIT: Also worth noting the huge unleash hell nerf is great for us.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Malakree

[NauticalSoup]

A 6+ ward is better than no ward but it's still only a marginal increase. I'm not sure he was only 16% overpriced. The spell thing  and the 'can't be auto slain' are probably more important. I'm going to be trying him out with my custom model for sure though.

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, NauticalSoup said:

A 6+ ward is better than no ward but it's still only a marginal increase. I'm not sure he was only 16% overpriced. The spell thing  and the 'can't be auto slain' are probably more important. I'm going to be trying him out with my custom model for sure though.

The can't be auto-slain is huge, 6+ ward was just added onto his spell save anyway, he now counts as a 30 models for objective purposes at full wounds.

I'd definitely say he's extremely usable now, not Morathi levels but the changes actually make him worth putting in a list now.

[Jaskier]

For free, he gained; a 6++ (helps him a bit against his bane; mortal wounds) counting as 30 models that degrades (this one is huge, it's the main reason Mega-Gargants are so strong right now) immune to auto-slay abilities (also very good) and a wholly within 12" bubble of 3D6 charges that can be declared from 18" (this is not only a big buff to him as it basically guarantees a turn one charge, it is incredibly good for pretty much any army you slot him into.) 

His base 2+ save and near-immunity to spells already made him extremely tough against all but the massed mortal wound lists, and the ranged versions of those - Blood Stalkers, Sentinels, etc - all got the double whammy nerf of a points increase and the rework of Unleash Hell. His damage output also was never a problem, especially on the charge. Now, he's got a handy 6++, he'll be charging a turn earlier than before (as will anything next to him) and he's also scoring like a Mega-Gargant. He certainly feels like an icon of destruction now. 

[Baron_Bathory]

So now that our piggies have been jacked up 20 points, how does this effect the go-to Bloodtoofs list. Are we scrapping it?

[Carnith]

All brutes looking better and better! 

[Ravinsild]

Is this the place where we still talk about Ironjawz or is there a 3.0 thread or… an Orruk warclans 3.0 or….

just trying to find some ideas for lists really I’ve got a lot of Ironjawz just don’t know what to do with them or what’s good. 

[Bruteforce]

23 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Is this the place where we still talk about Ironjawz or is there a 3.0 thread or… an Orruk warclans 3.0 or….

just trying to find some ideas for lists really I’ve got a lot of Ironjawz just don’t know what to do with them or what’s good. 

You're in the right place!

[broche]

I was thinking that Arcane tome on maw krusha is now a valid choice with amulet downgraded.

[SunStorm]

I've just had Bawla and Burk arrive and I was thinking, if GW say he can be used in game as a Brute Boss, having the same rules but on a 50mm base, does this mean the official base size for a brute boss can now be 40mm or 50mm? If so it opens up chances to kitbash other Brute Bosses on larger (eg, more heroic) bases?

[Ravinsild]

Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
    - Army Type: Ironjawz
    - Army Subfaction: Bloodtoofs
    - Grand Strategy: Show ’Em Who’s Boss!
    - Triumps: Show ’Em Who’s Boss!

LEADER

Megaboss on Maw-krusha (480)**
    - General
    - Command Traits: Mega Bossy
    - Boss Choppa and Rip-toof Fist
    - Artefacts: Armour of Gork
    - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)**
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

BATTLELINE

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)**
    - Pig-iron Choppas

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Ironjawz Fist

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (1970/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

Thoguts or opinions on my list? Unsure on whether MSU brutes are better or one big unit with the two handed weapons is better. 
 

also unsure about MSU Gore Gruntas but thought it might maximize the Bloodtoofs clan ability as well as their charge ability. Not sure if I should rock a unit with pig iron choppas either. 
 

otherwise I guess the plan would be wait for opportunities to use Fast ‘Un and maneuver with Mighty Destroyers to get stuck in. Use Hand of Gork to get my Brutes where I need them and hold objectives with ArdBoyz. 

[Smash]

9 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
    - Army Type: Ironjawz
    - Army Subfaction: Bloodtoofs
    - Grand Strategy: Show ’Em Who’s Boss!
    - Triumps: Show ’Em Who’s Boss!

LEADER

Megaboss on Maw-krusha (480)**
    - General
    - Command Traits: Mega Bossy
    - Boss Choppa and Rip-toof Fist
    - Artefacts: Armour of Gork
    - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)**
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

BATTLELINE

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)**
    - Pig-iron Choppas

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Ironjawz Fist

**Warlord

TOTAL POINTS: (1970/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

Thoguts or opinions on my list? Unsure on whether MSU brutes are better or one big unit with the two handed weapons is better. 
 

also unsure about MSU Gore Gruntas but thought it might maximize the Bloodtoofs clan ability as well as their charge ability. Not sure if I should rock a unit with pig iron choppas either. 
 

otherwise I guess the plan would be wait for opportunities to use Fast ‘Un and maneuver with Mighty Destroyers to get stuck in. Use Hand of Gork to get my Brutes where I need them and hold objectives with ArdBoyz. 

My thoughts are, maybe skip command trait mega bossy. I dont think you'll be using mighty destroyers more than once every hero phase anyway. 

Also i would just move the tome from the shaman onto a warchanter and give him the teleport and just remove the wierdnob, I dont think the wierdnob is any good. 

Lastly I would consider one drop battalion just to get first round instead of ward save on your krusha. As you are very likely to be able to get into combat first round with your gruntas. And then have one unit of 6 gruntas, So you can mighty destroyers all the pigs. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Smash

[Ravinsild]

4 hours ago, Smash said:

My thoughts are, maybe skip command trait mega bossy. I dont think you'll be using mighty destroyers more than once every hero phase anyway. 

Also i would just move the tome from the shaman onto a warchanter and give him the teleport and just remove the wierdnob, I dont think the wierdnob is any good. 

Lastly I would consider one drop battalion just to get first round instead of ward save on your krusha. As you are very likely to be able to get into combat first round with your gruntas. And then have one unit of 6 gruntas, So you can mighty destroyers all the pigs. 

I find that at least in AoS 2.0 I would try and use Mighty Destroyers as much as possible to  move my entire army forward every chance I got, so for me Mega Bossy seemed like an extremely good pick. In fact I’ve been considering fitting in a Footboss to have a chance for up to 5 uses out of 2 CP for Mighty Destroyers. 
 

The reason for the Shaman is not only Hand of Gork, but with the Tome I can also cast Mystic Shield which would take my Megaboss on Maw-Krusha to a 2+ save because I chose the Riptooth Fist option. Unfortunately it doesn’t cause re-roll 1’s anymore but a +1 to save is still very survivable. I highly value survivability and I’ve found a 6+ ward save to be invaluable in keeping things alive. 
 

Back in AoS 2.0 I ran the Big Waaagh! On my Ironjawz and one of the main reasons was due to Laugh at ‘Em which was a universal 6+ ward save. It increased survivability by more than you might imagine as I played into Tzeentch and other ranged armies often and would get slaughtered as pure Ironjawz. So for me personally I really value a 6+ ward save from my own experience. 
 

I will probably consolidate my Gore-Gruntas into a unit of 6 and a unit or 3 and I’m not sure on my Brutes but possibly a single unit or 10. I like the idea of screening them with ArdBoyz and fighting over top with the 2” weapons. Otoh 2 MSU is more board control. 
 

The one drop battalion is tempting at which point I would more than likely drop the Arcane Tome. However I liked the extra CP from the Warlord Battalion for more Mighty Destroyers. 

[NauticalSoup]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I highly value survivability and I’ve found a 6+ ward save to be invaluable in keeping things alive. 
 

Back in AoS 2.0 I ran the Big Waaagh! On my Ironjawz and one of the main reasons was due to Laugh at ‘Em which was a universal 6+ ward save. It increased survivability by more than you might imagine as I played into Tzeentch and other ranged armies often and would get slaughtered as pure Ironjawz. So for me personally I really value a 6+ ward save from my own experience. 

I mean this implies the 6+ ward is something amorphous we can't very easily quantify in terms of its net game impact.

It's a 16% increase to your army's wound pool, sans variables like healing effects or units that don't get the full benefit like Ardboyz. So if you are 'getting slaughtered' as pure Ironjawz then you'll still be slaughtered with a ward- just slightly less. That might be what makes the difference but it's not likely to flip around a game where you're getting tabled.

And you certainly paid for it, the stuff you lost could easily provide a 16% increase in survivability under the right conditions (after all, dead enemies can't fight back)

[Ravinsild]

2 hours ago, NauticalSoup said:

I mean this implies the 6+ ward is something amorphous we can't very easily quantify in terms of its net game impact.

It's a 16% increase to your army's wound pool, sans variables like healing effects or units that don't get the full benefit like Ardboyz. So if you are 'getting slaughtered' as pure Ironjawz then you'll still be slaughtered with a ward- just slightly less. That might be what makes the difference but it's not likely to flip around a game where you're getting tabled.

And you certainly paid for it, the stuff you lost could easily provide a 16% increase in survivability under the right conditions (after all, dead enemies can't fight back)

Do you think it’s worth losing armor of Gork and making all of the suggested changes to my list? 

[Squark]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

Do you think it’s worth losing armor of Gork and making all of the suggested changes to my list? 

Especially with Kragnos's new buffs, going first for Ironjawz is a huge deal. If you let him get the 1st turn and haven't done a good job screening your Megaboss, he will die, Ward save or not. It's also vital for crippling Lumineth before the pansy Aelves can get all their spells up. Stormcast Eternals with Thunderbolt Volley also stand a good chance at crippling you if you let their alpha strike get the first turn. And If you can manage to find a hole in Legion of the First Prince's screens before they get all their command abilities up, well, you might be in for a less miserable time*.

Losing the 6++ hurts, but you're losing an awful lot to get it. If you think about it, the Armor of Gork adds about 4-5 wounds to your Megaboss. However, going second can cost you all that and more, which can make it a net loss for you. Bear in mind this depends on your metagame, of course. If you're dealing with a less competitive metagame, you can afford to give up on going first.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Squark

[Ravinsild]

1 hour ago, Squark said:

Especially with Kragnos's new buffs, going first for Ironjawz is a huge deal. If you let him get the 1st turn and haven't done a good job screening your Megaboss, he will die, Ward save or not. It's also vital for crippling Lumineth before the pansy Aelves can get all their spells up. Stormcast Eternals with Thunderbolt Volley also stand a good chance at crippling you if you let their alpha strike get the first turn. And If you can manage to find a hole in Legion of the First Prince's screens before they get all their command abilities up, well, you might be in for a less miserable time*.

Losing the 6++ hurts, but you're losing an awful lot to get it. If you think about it, the Armor of Gork adds about 4-5 wounds to your Megaboss. However, going second can cost you all that and more, which can make it a net loss for you. Bear in mind this depends on your metagame, of course. If you're dealing with a less competitive metagame, you can afford to give up on going first.

Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
    - Army Type: Ironjawz
    - Army Subfaction: Bloodtoofs
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumps: Hold the Line

LEADER

Megaboss on Maw-krusha (480)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Mega Bossy
    - Boss Choppa and Rip-toof Fist
    - Artefacts: Armour of Gork
    - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un

Orruk Megaboss (140)**
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

BATTLELINE

2 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

1 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Pig-iron Choppas

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

**Command Entourage

TOTAL POINTS: (1935/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

With such suggestions in mind I have brought about this list. However I could drop the Command Battalion which I was bringing for the extra CP to get more Mighty Destroyers and also why I brought a Footboss for up to 5 uses of it plus Fast Un’. I had to drop 5 ArdBoyz about it. 
 

it’s entirely possible to fold in the command group into the core battalion for a true one drop list. Thoughts or opinions on this?

 

Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
    - Army Type: Ironjawz
    - Army Subfaction: Bloodtoofs

LEADER

Megaboss on Maw-krusha (480)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Mega Bossy
    - Boss Choppa and Rip-toof Fist
    - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un

Orruk Warchanter (115)*
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome

Orruk Warchanter (115)*

BATTLELINE

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

1 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

1 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Pig-iron Choppas

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1880/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

 

With like every single suggestion absolutely taken into effect my list would look like this to make it a true 1 drop but then I have 120 points to spare or so… 

Just trying to refine this list to the best it can be. 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Ravinsild

[Smash]

12 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
    - Army Type: Ironjawz
    - Army Subfaction: Bloodtoofs
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumps: Hold the Line

LEADER

Megaboss on Maw-krusha (480)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Mega Bossy
    - Boss Choppa and Rip-toof Fist
    - Artefacts: Armour of Gork
    - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un

Orruk Megaboss (140)**
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

Orruk Warchanter (115)**

BATTLELINE

2 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

Orruk Brutes (160)*
    - Brute Choppas,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

1 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Pig-iron Choppas

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

**Command Entourage

TOTAL POINTS: (1935/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

With such suggestions in mind I have brought about this list. However I could drop the Command Battalion which I was bringing for the extra CP to get more Mighty Destroyers and also why I brought a Footboss for up to 5 uses of it plus Fast Un’. I had to drop 5 ArdBoyz about it. 
 

it’s entirely possible to fold in the command group into the core battalion for a true one drop list. Thoughts or opinions on this?

 

Army Faction: Orruk Warclans
    - Army Type: Ironjawz
    - Army Subfaction: Bloodtoofs

LEADER

Megaboss on Maw-krusha (480)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Mega Bossy
    - Boss Choppa and Rip-toof Fist
    - Mount Traits: Fast ’Un

Orruk Warchanter (115)*
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome

Orruk Warchanter (115)*

BATTLELINE

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

1 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka,Boss Klaw & Brute Smasha

1 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (340)*
    - Jagged Gore-hacka

Orruk Gore-gruntas (170)*
    - Pig-iron Choppas

1 x Orruk Ardboys (170)*

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1880/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

 

With like every single suggestion absolutely taken into effect my list would look like this to make it a true 1 drop but then I have 120 points to spare or so… 

Just trying to refine this list to the best it can be. 

 

Thoughts on last list:

1. Should definetly fill the last point gap
   • Would rather reinforce more gruntas or brutes over ardboys as ardboys works best in 5 squads anyway, because of weapon reach. 
   • If this is because of missing models and you have to use ardboys i would probably have 1 squad of 15 and try to get use out of the rally with a chanter and again hopefully change out the last ardboyz with something more expensive.
2. I still dont think having mega bossy is giving any value.
   • In your list you would use MD to move your 2 grunta units and the MK (maybe not needed because of fast un). And teleport your brutes. This enables 4 charges, and you should call waaagh to get it more reliably. Using another MD is not gonna get any other units in charge range anyway, so those ardboys should just be deployed and run for objectives. 
   • With fast un you can even maybe skip targeting your krusha with MD, and have enough move with 24 inches pre charge? Unless fast un is needed to hit some important very far back deployed unit or something (This is flex you can have in the match).  To move your ardboyz a bit further if needed. 
   • To be fair, I do think Mega bossy is a good choice if you had even more gruntas in your list. Because that will enable more gruntas to charge t1. But i don't think megabossy would make a difference when used on ardboyz and brutes. This is where the teleport is usefull. 

Sidenotes with even bigger changes to the list. So feel free to ignore.

1. Arcane tome: This is needed as you use brutes and gruntas. only way to get them into combat semi reliably t1. If your list was only gruntas, I would consider switching the tome for Destroyer to realy make sure your MK destroyes something, as your realy want to trigger Smashing and basing. (This also means I would value Mega bossy higher having more pigs). And the fast un trait will let you charge whatever you want. 
2. I use a Rogue idol in my list that is similar to yours, but I am not sure what i would pick if I owned more Grunta models.

 

I don't want to seem like I'm hating on Mega bossy, but my experience is that I realy don't have the cmd points to support it anyway.  

 

[Holy_Diver]

I wanna play this Irosunz list, but I dunno if I gonna aim at low drop or don't care:

Mk
Warchanter
Warchanter
Megaboss on foot
2x10 Brutes
2x5 Ardboys
6x Gruntas

It's a lot of wounds and menaces, but I'm testing diffrent configurations before a big tournament. Against nurgle daemons I lost, for example.