AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[QuinacridoneGold]

6 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Both are good, list 2 got a bit more mobility, another option is to change list 1 a bit, replace 5 brutes with 3 gruntas to have a mobile capping unit. Then go da choppas, since you got 2 big brute units and a double reinforced ardboy unit, that would add a lot of efficiency and threat.

I don't know why , but gruntas have kinda underperformed recently for me. I like the idea of flooding the board with brutes, but I am afraid of the reduced mobility....

Do you think the double reinforced Ardboy unit is a wise choiche? it would mainly babysit home objectives and squishies (likely a warchanter and the gloomspite shaman)

I have never tried Da Choppas, i just love the Ironsunz countercharge!

[Malakree]

Personally I'd look at something more like this.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Skilled Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (95)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)

Units
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 95 / 400
Wounds: 154
Drops: 9
 

Dropping the 2nd MK allows you to put in other big threats. The unit of 6 ggs gives you devastating alpha potential and ironically not being battleline denies the broken ranks battle tactic.

You then get 2 big units of brutes, both a 5 and 10 ardboy unit which allows for a defensive and offensive objective unit.

[dnusha]

How are you guys dealing with Destructive Bulk, can MK use Stomp Multiple times (more than two) they removed wording from 2nd edition about "any number of times" but in the third edition new wording is "If you carry out Stomp Monstrous rampage" so can you do this multiple times like we used to? (your opinion on that) I mean we are carrying it out second time i guess.

[jjb070707]

1 hour ago, dnusha said:

How are you guys dealing with Destructive Bulk, can MK use Stomp Multiple times (more than two) they removed wording from 2nd edition about "any number of times" but in the third edition new wording is "If you carry out Stomp Monstrous rampage" so can you do this multiple times like we used to? (your opinion on that) I mean we are carrying it out second time i guess.

I'd differ to language specificity here. Each time you carry out the "Stomp monstrous rampage" another Destructive Bulk (DB) condition check occurs. So like any do until loop, you would repeatedly carry out the sequence of: Stomp, Destructive Bulk, Stomp, Destructive Bulk, Stomp.... until the Destructive Bulk's clause of checking for model's within 3 inches can no longer be satisfied. So in essence, you will stomp until the condition check on DB does not bring you back to the stomp part of the loop, and then you continue on with the phase. One could technically imagine a situation where this loop continued until the entire enemy force was gone, but such a situation is far fetched. If the loop was intended to last at most two iterations, the clause would have to be written as such... "Then you can carry out another Stomp unless you have performed two stomps since the start of this phase" or something of that nature.

Edited October 26, 2021 by jjb070707

[Tizianolol]

On 10/26/2021 at 12:15 AM, Andrew G said:

Thanks for the post @Malakree. Seems like it's overwhelming consensus here in the US is very close to what you mention from the UK crew. Everyone is running some version of 2 MK, 3 warchanters, 12 pigs ( I prefer 1x6 and 2x3) in Bloodtoofs. Obviously, there's a lot of variation with artifact/mount trait set-ups. Here's the one I prefer: 

 

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120
Drops: 10
 

The General MK is staying out of threat range (literally back corner of the board against some lists), hopefully out of unbind range, and using Fast'un to jump in the fray once the opportunity arises( usually T2 w/ waagh after some skirmishing).  

That said, I'm sticking with my 21 GG/ 1 MK list because I like to think I'm a unique and special snowflake and arguably think it's just as good. 

Hi, im curious how you position your 1x6 gruntas. You put them in 2 line of 3 pigs for coherency?:)

[Kasper]

13 hours ago, QuinacridoneGold said:

Again a list comment post!

Got my first 2000 pt game going in two days. I only have accesso to a single Maw Krusha and a maximum of 9 pigs, 25 brutes and 30 ardboys (thanks, AoS 2.0) , What do you think of these lists? 

NOTE: weapon loadout for brutes and pigs is Jagged Gore Hacka, not the choppa.

 

I Need a few comments on your preferences for mount trait and command trait! Was thinking about Fast Un and Mega Bossy to get all that mobility across the table and compensate the slow movement of all my brutes.

LIST 1 - No Gruntas

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LIST 2

  Hide contents

 

Im not sold on Mega Bossy, granted I havent tried it out but from my games Im simply starved for CPs. There are way too many things you want to keep a command point for IMO to ever see myself spam Mighty Destroyers multiple times a turn. 

I want 1) Mighty Destroyers 2) All-out Attack/Defense 3) Redeploy 4) Ironsunz countercharge 5) Inspiring possibly 6) All-out Attack/Defense in my opponent's turn. If I got a bunch of slow dudes I would probably prefer to 7) Autorun 6" to get onto objectives unless they need to get into combat or shoving Warchanters forward for the next turn.

Im missing some rare CAs like rerolling charges, but thats already way more than the 3 or 4 you get per round. Obviously it helps if you are good at rolling a 4+ but its still tight and you might opt to go for the healing on the MK once he takes damage. 

Mega Bossy in my mind is for when you want to alpha your opponent with your whole army.

[Kasper]

12 hours ago, Malakree said:

Personally I'd look at something more like this.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Skilled Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (95)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)

Units
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 95 / 400
Wounds: 154
Drops: 9
 

Dropping the 2nd MK allows you to put in other big threats. The unit of 6 ggs gives you devastating alpha potential and ironically not being battleline denies the broken ranks battle tactic.

You then get 2 big units of brutes, both a 5 and 10 ardboy unit which allows for a defensive and offensive objective unit.

I prefer this list as well - Nitpicking but for whatever reason you cant duplicate the GHB batallions unlike the ones in the Core Rules. 

[Scurvydog]

12 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Hi, im curious how you position your 1x6 gruntas. You put them in 2 line of 3 pigs for coherency?:)

Like this:

[Tizianolol]

Oh thx a lot, in this case how many grunta are able to do damage in charge?:) 

[Kasper]

6 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Oh thx a lot, in this case how many grunta are able to do damage in charge?:) 

All of them, thats the whole point. 😜 I find it easier if you simply place a 25mm base where Scurvy placed the measure sticks. As long as that base touches the opponent and each Pig hugs the base, then every Pig will be within 1" of the enemy unit so you get impact hits, pig attacks etc.

[Tizianolol]

Thats very strong if the enemy unit is big enought!! Anyway its very cool way to play 6 grutas!!:)

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Thats very strong if the enemy unit is big enought!! Anyway its very cool way to play 6 grutas!!:)

The Big thing is that though you have the two separate wings which are stuck the connection between them allows for a lot of variation in terms of how they get in.

[Scurvydog]

52 minutes ago, Malakree said:

The Big thing is that though you have the two separate wings which are stuck the connection between them allows for a lot of variation in terms of how they get in.

and if 1 dies, coherency is no longer an issue anyway

[PlasticCraic]

10 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Like this:

Looks familiar 😉

9 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Oh thx a lot, in this case how many grunta are able to do damage in charge?:) 

Yeah the point is that the sideways range tools (e.g. the yellow one) show you 1".  I've got the forwards-facing Gruntas in contact with the back of those sideways tools, demonstrating that the Gruntas at the back are less than 1" from the front line, so they can likely all get in.  And the centre of the unit acts as a pivot, so you rotate 3-blocks around that point for smaller frontages.

What I'd love is for @Sedge to make Mini Mag Trays in this formation, to make all our lives easier!

The full article on AOS 3 coherency that this picture was taken from is below, for anyone interested:

https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-age-of-sigmar-3-0-coherency-rules/

[Scurvydog]

Got a hard time to decide on a final list for the next events I am going to.

Looking at a core of 2 Krushas and 2 chanters. Question is, if it would be best to go Bloodtoofs with 2x6 gruntas and 5 brutes, or go Ironsunz with 6 gruntas, 10 brutes and 2x5 ardboyz.

Gruntas are just really good and getting rend 2 on hackas really brought them up in value. Baseline their damage output matches brutes point for point, but adds mortal wound output on charges as well, which adds up on 2+! Over twice the movement, higher model count for objectives and needs to take more damage before being affected by battleshock as much. 

Brutes get some nice benefits against either 1 wound units or 4+ wound units, but not much else, they are baseline battline though, so fits well into the iron sunz to get the counter charge ability, which even the threat of, can mess with the opponent a lot.

The Bloodtoofs variant is more aggressive and has redundancy even if the first grunta unit dies fast. Lots of mobility as well and can quickly get board presence. The other list has cheaper units to keep backline objectives, and the brute unit is still good to cancel out horrors, wardens etc on obectives, or be a major threat to elite units. they will more often need inspiring presence however to not run away.

[Chase]

32 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Looking at a core of 2 Krushas and 2 chanters. Question is, if it would be best to go Bloodtoofs with 2x6 gruntas and 5 brutes, or go Ironsunz with 6 gruntas, 10 brutes and 2x5 ardboyz.

I've had a lot of success with a blocks of 10 Brutes. You Messin has won me games. With hakas on Brutes they consistently out preform my 6 Gruntas damage wise.

In my experience. After turn 2, Gruntas are all out of range of violent fury. Dramatically decreasing their output.

Brutes lack the same mobility but I either MD or TP them to a central objective. Supported by a warchanter they do serious work. I've also lawnmowered an entire flank with them and a warchanter. Opponent has to commit a lot of resources to deal with them effectively.

A cheap screen can deny the goregruntas their mobility anyway. I love my pigs but they consistently under preform for me. Maybe it's just me though.

[Scurvydog]

19 minutes ago, Chase said:

A cheap screen can deny the goregruntas their mobility anyway. I love my pigs but they consistently under preform for me. Maybe it's just me though.

Bloodtoofs does at least allow for the gruntas to charge again if they clear a screen and tie up something, dealing some mortal wounds as well while doing it. It is a hard choice though, if only the Ironsunz ability did not cast CP  I like the threat from the Ironsunz though, if played right the opponent will have far less "safe" plays to do, if you got an unengaged mawkrusha nearby, everything becomes far harder to do with the risk of a counter charge on their hammer unit.

The meta being full of lumineth and legion of the first prince, also brings a lot of value to "you messin'" for sure.

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

Bloodtoofs does at least allow for the gruntas to charge again if they clear a screen and tie up something, dealing some mortal wounds as well while doing it. It is a hard choice though, if only the Ironsunz ability did not cast CP  I like the threat from the Ironsunz though, if played right the opponent will have far less "safe" plays to do, if you got an unengaged mawkrusha nearby, everything becomes far harder to do with the risk of a counter charge on their hammer unit.

The meta being full of lumineth and legion of the first prince, also brings a lot of value to "you messin'" for sure.

If the opponent is far enough in on the objective, then the Brute ability does nothing (or not enough) in some cases though.

In my mind the difference between Bloodtoofs and Ironsunz is that Bloodtoofs allows for you to be more proactive in the game where as Ironsunz is a reactive playstyle. Both are good depending on how you play. 

Do you really need to play 2x6 Pigs? Even with 2 MKs? I prefer 4x3 Pigs for sure, since it gives you a lot more options in regards to how you use the Pigs. The list with 2 MK, 3 WCs, 1 Weirdnob and then 4x3 Pigs is looking quite good in my eyes since you get double Warlord. You could give the Weirdnob the Arcane Tome so he can cast 2 spells (Mystic Shield + Teleport/Bash'em) and still have Destroyer on 1 MK.

[Tizianolol]

Guys I played yestorday with a friend on tts, can you confirm that gruntas mount benefit from Warchanter +1 damage buff and from extra rend on waagh? Same with Warchanter buff on maw crusha?Thx a lot 😀

Edited October 30, 2021 by Tizianolol

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys I played yestorday with a friend on tts, can you confirm that gruntas mount benefit from Warchanter +1 damage buff and from extra rend on waagh? Same with Warchanter buff on maw crusha?Thx a lot 😀

Yes- sadly

[Tizianolol]

Why sadly!:) its amazing!!:)

[Skreech Verminking]

24 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Why sadly!:) its amazing!!:)

Too strong, too much damage,

but that is the opinion of a rat player, so It probably won’t matter either way😜

Edited October 30, 2021 by Skreech Verminking

[Tizianolol]

Guys another question:)

About redeploy . Immagine a unit finish a move within 9" of a unit of 3 gruntas( unit a) I got a maw crusha in range with that unit of grunta and another unit of 3 gruntas ( unit b) When I use redeply i move first unit of gruntas( unit a) in range of 9". When I can move the second unit(b)?. After i move (a) or when my opponent finish a move with another unit in range with (b)? I hope you understood my poor english!:)

Edited October 31, 2021 by Tizianolol

[Kasper]

 Im having such a hard time deciding between Ironsunz and Bloodtoofs. Both abilities are so incredibly strong when used well.  

I love the idea of being able to launch Pigs up the board and trade effeciently with a screen or whatever, then get to charge and tag something else and pin the opponent back for a whole turn, especially in the current meta where a lot of armies are made up of a couple of units.

Ironsunz just creates this puzzle for your opponent where he wants to single out a Maw Krusha, but if he charges it then he knows the other will countercharge and mess with his plans. 

It is amazing having these choices but on the other hand.. Its so difficult to pick! I want both of them!!

 

Anyone played with Bloodtoofs recently?

[dnusha]

3 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys another question:)

About redeploy . Immagine a unit finish a move within 9" of a unit of 3 gruntas( unit a) I got a maw crusha in range with that unit of grunta and another unit of 3 gruntas ( unit b) When I use redeply i move first unit of gruntas( unit a) in range of 9". When I can move the second unit(b)?. After i move (a) or when my opponent finish a move with another unit in range with (b)? I hope you understood my poor english!:)

You can move all three of your units if all of them are within 9' from enemy unit that just finished it's movement. You can't move units that are out of 9' from that enemy unit. If all three of your units are within 9' you move all of them after they recieve a Redeploy CA. (each one of them were in 9' when enemy unit finished it's movement - each of them can recieve a CA) If there is only one your units is within 9' you move that one unit and you still can use Redeploy 2 times later in that movement phase. (i.e when other enemy unit will end up near your unit, you will be able to Redeploy)

Edited October 31, 2021 by dnusha