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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion


Chris Tomlin
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6 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

It can not be stated enough, especially in the current meta, that overwhelming output is key for Ironjawz to trigger smashing and bashing. MSU is good for board control, but very inefficient for command point usage, violent fury and smashing and bashing triggering.

If you buff up 6 gruntas with a warchanter and they go fight and say lose 2 models. The remaining 4 that are still buffed will still be a major threat, while a 3 man unit getting cut down to 1 is no longer a problem.

I plan to run bloodtoofs with 2 krushas and 2x6 gruntas and a unit of brutes (perfect for sending into 1 wound char units on objectives). This creates maximum efficiency and makes it much more likely to snowball the opponent army with smashing and bashing.

I’d be curious to hear how it holds up, I was messing around with a similar idea.  My main concern with a list consisting of 7 total units and 21 total models is that the board presence and ability to contest objectives will be lacking(assuming we’re talking 2 MK, 2 chanters, 2x6 GG, and a unit of 5 brutes rolling in at 1950ish points)

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1 hour ago, BeeTee said:

I’d be curious to hear how it holds up, I was messing around with a similar idea.  My main concern with a list consisting of 7 total units and 21 total models is that the board presence and ability to contest objectives will be lacking(assuming we’re talking 2 MK, 2 chanters, 2x6 GG, and a unit of 5 brutes rolling in at 1950ish points)

This is so hyper aggressive it should obliterate things and box in the opponent very fast. Brutes bodyguard chanters a bit and holds objectives. You messin rule helps with that as well, and they still hurt quite a lot. 

5 brutes could be 2x5 ArdBoyz too, I just like the brutes and that they can completely mess up objective capping from a unit of wardens, pink horrors or mortek guard for example just by engaging them. 

Bloodtoofs give gruntas crazy mobility, to either keep locking down stuff harder, or move to objectives or into chanter range for the next turn buff. MSU gruntas just makes it less likely they will achieve all that snowballing I think. Although I can absolutely see a case for 1x6 and 2x3 instead. 

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7 hours ago, Vastianos said:

I am super curious as to why I am seeing tournament lists take a Warlord to get Arcane Tome and then use it for Flaming Weapon. Is it the unbind attempt that makes people choose it over the Destroyer Artifact? 

Think so, flaming weapon or mystic shield brings a lot of utility if you are able to cast them. Against teclis, kroak or Nagash it will do nothing though... 

If not taking destroyer I think I would look at armor of gork (assuming amulet on the other krusha in a 2 krusha list). With mighty destroyers and fast un, the -2 movement is manageable and 6+ ward and +1 hit is nice and allows for AoD instead of AoA if needed.

Destroyer could also end up being overkill against a bunch of lists, but it is a handy tool when you really need to get that big thing down and preferably get smashing and bashing going.

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16 hours ago, Vastianos said:

I am super curious as to why I am seeing tournament lists take a Warlord to get Arcane Tome and then use it for Flaming Weapon. Is it the unbind attempt that makes people choose it over the Destroyer Artifact? 

I think the issue might be that you can put Flaming Weapon on the Mawcrusha's Mighty Fists which has rend-2 but Destroyer (as an artifact) cannot be put on the mount attacks. 

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I’ve got my first tournament coming up with the new book and am just feeling overwhelmed with options. I consider myself pretty competitive and mentally prepared (as far as knowing the ins and outs of the book) so was wondering how peoples results have been so far? I’ve only 9 piggies so bloodtoofs is a little out of the question. I’ve got a semi list with 2 MK, 2 chanter a 6/3 pig setup and brutes to fill in. Or single MK Choppas with a brute heavy list, double MK Choppas?  Dunno why I’m constantly second guessing my lists. Feel like I’ve been waiting forever for brutes to be amazing and they are and kind of want to run 40 of them lol. Am I crazy? Anyone else just go into a mindspin over this?

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On 10/21/2021 at 3:10 PM, Tizianolol said:

guys after so many experiments on tts, thats my list for next tourny in italy!! 

feel free to comment  and ask if u wanna more info about the list , im very happy to share my ideas about this amazing book!IJironsunz.pdf

 

That Is very unusual and interesting! Also, i might Just be able to field the same list having a single MK. Care to share your ideas? (PS saluti da Roma!)

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On 10/21/2021 at 3:37 PM, BeeTee said:

I’d be curious to hear how it holds up, I was messing around with a similar idea.  My main concern with a list consisting of 7 total units and 21 total models is that the board presence and ability to contest objectives will be lacking(assuming we’re talking 2 MK, 2 chanters, 2x6 GG, and a unit of 5 brutes rolling in at 1950ish points)

Tried the list vs a Nagash and Vhordrai list with zombie spam, which is not really the ideal situation with endless zombie screens. Nagash and Vhordrai deployed as 2 drop in a castle screened by the 3 units of zombies (40,20.20). Played tectonic interferrence and he gave me first turn, so decided to just let it rip and see if I could box them in, so did violent fury on the 2 units of gruntas and launched them into the zombies, while keeping the 2 bosses 22" away from Nagash, to be outside portal+hand of dust range.

Blew up the zombies, and BloodToof moved one unit back to an objective while launching the other into the last unit of zombies to pin them. Some zombies came back again though and in his turn he managed to kill the first unit of gruntas with 16 mortal wounds from arcane bolts and some combat and shooting. Vhordrai charged the other grunta units and killed 2 there as well.

That hurt quite a bit, but was expected. The big screens were gone, so it was time to play frogger with the destroyer Mawkrusha and do a Waaagh. Brutes took alpha objective by charging the zombies, they could not cap due to "you messin" even though there were around 15 left vs 4 brutes at the end of the combat phase. I had positioned myself in a way originally so my opponent thought I would try to remove Vhordrai who was a bit over extended and he had use finest hour on him and mystic shield. That was a grave mistake as the destroyer mawkrusha jumped across the entire board and caught Nagash and smashed him. With only a wounded Vhordrai and some scattered zombies we called it there.

Nagash lists are super polarizing, and I honestly think they coutner us well, with Zombie tarpits and Nagash just nuking down stuff with no magic defense from the Ironjawz. Hand of dust is an absolute horror too and I have lost Mawkrushas to that multiple times, as all it takes is 1 whiffed combat phase... 

The Ironjawz rend and the Gore Hackas with rend 2 on the Gruntas is for sure amazing at punching down these super monsters running around. There are few lists that can just safely tank 4 super hammer units potentially coming at once, with rend 3 on multiple weapon profiles for 1 turn. 

On 10/24/2021 at 7:11 AM, Tezia99 said:

I’ve got my first tournament coming up with the new book and am just feeling overwhelmed with options. I consider myself pretty competitive and mentally prepared (as far as knowing the ins and outs of the book) so was wondering how peoples results have been so far? I’ve only 9 piggies so bloodtoofs is a little out of the question. I’ve got a semi list with 2 MK, 2 chanter a 6/3 pig setup and brutes to fill in. Or single MK Choppas with a brute heavy list, double MK Choppas?  Dunno why I’m constantly second guessing my lists. Feel like I’ve been waiting forever for brutes to be amazing and they are and kind of want to run 40 of them lol. Am I crazy? Anyone else just go into a mindspin over this?

I ran 2x6 in my list, but I do think a 6 and 3 setup could work, with maybe a unit of brutes more or a 10 man brute unit instead to hold the center for example, you will still have 3 fast and scary hammers, 1 hammer/anvil and a 3 man grunta unit to charge smaller things or to cap objectives outside of the primary fighting and a lesser investment.

Ironjawz can be rather comfortably played with almost any combination of things, they are all good in their own right, although you do want a bunch of the rend 2 stuff, be it on brutes or gruntas.

I initially swore to Ironsunz, but considering just how CP hungry everything is, I have changed my mind a little. It is incredibly useful to be able to have the threat of a counter charge, but I often burn through CP on AoA, Mighty Destroyer and because of poor bravery inspiring presence can be a must too, so the CP just flies out the window on other essential stuff.

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On 10/22/2021 at 1:15 AM, Vastianos said:

I am super curious as to why I am seeing tournament lists take a Warlord to get Arcane Tome and then use it for Flaming Weapon. Is it the unbind attempt that makes people choose it over the Destroyer Artifact? 

I would guess the aim is to cast Mystic Shield on your MK with Amulet of Destiny and let it pin/tank the world. When you start pushing into the 2+ save zone the survivability skyrockets, especially with the 5+ ward ontop. Honestwargamer recently made a video on this subject on youtube where they show the math and it gets really crazy. Its called "The Amulet of Destiny is too good and I'm sick of pretending its not." I was really blown away!

Yes you can All-out Defense to get to 2+ as well, but you will need multiple stacks of +save against many things. With Mystic Shield you can layer AoD and even Finest Hour. Obviously you intend for whatever your MK charges to get decimated, but the opponent got a turn afterwards, where the Mystic Shield really shines.

It also allows the option of using Metamorphisis on a Warchanter and run 3 monsters together for an extra VP in the situations where you dont want to alpha your opponent.  

Flaming Weapon on the rend 2 fists is also great - Destroyer is awesome but only works for 1 round, Arcane Tome is just more versatile. You also get a dispell against endless spells like Shackles etc. 

Edited by Kasper
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So I was at a larger tournament last weekend with a lot of really good players. I went 3-2 but was 2nd worst of the large quantity of Ironjawz. Most went for Goregrunta heavy lists but double mawkrusha was basically universal, there were a bunch of other intresting things which I'll go through after my own experience.

My list

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Skilled Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*
- Reinforced x 2
15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*
- Reinforced x 2
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)**
- Pig-iron Choppas

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Wounds: 138
Drops: 5

Mainly I wanted to try out the blocks of 15 Ardboys. I had to take bloodtoofs to get my battleline, it was worthless the whole tournament. If I had the extra ardboys that would have been three units of 5 Ardboys, a triumph and the Ironsunz clan which would have been infinitely more useful to me. So the games were as follows.

  1. Win on First Blood vs Fyreslayers
    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Fyreslayers
    - Lodge: Lofnir
    - Grand Strategy:
    - Triumphs:

    Leaders
    Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (285)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Explosive Charge
    - Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
    Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (285)
    - Magmadroth Trait: Cinder-crest Youngblood
    Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (285)
    - Magmadroth Trait: Lava-tongue Adult
    Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (275)
    - Runic Iron
    - Artefact: Igneous Battle-throne
    - Magmadroth Trait: Ash-horn Ancient
    - Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
    Battlesmith (125)
    - Artefact: Icon of the Ancestors
    Auric Runesmiter (120)
    - Forge Key
    - Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal

    Battleline
    5 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (125)**
    - Poleaxes
    5 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (125)**
    - Poleaxes
    5 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (125)**
    - Broadaxes

    Units
    10 x Auric Hearthguard (250)
    - Reinforced x 1

    Core Battalions
    *Warlord
    **Hunters of the Heartlands

    Additional Enhancements
    Artefact

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 116
    Drops: 10

    Overview
    The scenery around the objectives made the entrances into massive choke points. He went for the south and centre while ignoring the north (My PoV). He didn't deploy anything underground but as he dropped last I had to use a unit of 3 gg's to screen my backline.

    I gave him first turn, he pushed 5 hearthguard into his chokepoint leading to the centre, and and ran a unit of 5 round the bottom of his central choke point, pushing his general and another magmadroth behind them. He had no real way to get to the northern objective without massively over extending himself.

    My first turn I ran a unit of 15 onto the bottom objective backed by a warchanter, with a unit of 3 pigs moving along side them to screen from below. Both MK's went into the middle of the board with the secondary one on his side and I sent the other unit of 15 to my northern objective due to the narrow central chokepoint was on my side.

    He won the roll turn 2 and forced me to take a double. I started to move the 15 ardboys on the top objective towards the middle, forgot I was intending to do so and pushed my 3 backline gg's into the centre behind my MK's meaning those 15 sat were stuck there for till turn 4. On the bottom objective I pushed the 15 ardboys up most of the way to the objective while the 3 ggs pulled slightly further ahead to stop them being flanked. My second MK slammed into his central chokepoint and failed to kill 5 hearthguard berserkers despite being buffed ¬¬

    His turn 2, the curse on my MK failed (spoiler: it never went off), and it sat there with finest hour on unimpressed while the shooting bounced off. On the bottom point he tried to broken ranks my 3ggs, moved his berserkers up and out of the way of the 2 magmadroths, I redeployed on the 3 ggs which moved back and out of the way while the 15 ardboys moved to fully block the objective off. everything went into the ardboys and killed all but the boss and a banner.

    He doubled me turn 3, I burnt the bottom objective and rallied back 7 ardboys in the bottom unit bringing it up to 9. The MK in the middle got shot off because for some reason I make more saves on a 5+ with ardboys than on an MK with a 3+.

    The game wrapped up with bottom ardboy unit slowly falling back to the middle as he was unable to ever actually finish it, it ended the game having rallied back 14 models. I sat on the two remaining objectives and won.

    While only a 15-5 split it was a solid win against a nice opponent and fun was had by both of us.

  2. Loss on Feral Foray vs Sylvaneth

    Spoiler

    Overview

    His list doesn't matter. He added what I will call a slightly biased interpretation of how movement and terrain rules interact. I think because of how good the previous game was and general shock at what he was doing I didn't call the TO over, I was later told had I done so he would have been told it was, shall we say incorrect. Honestly I should have just followed my instincts, given him a one fingered salute and not bothered to take my turn 1.

    This is the worst game I've played in about 3 years at a tournament and the 1 tournament point was not worth 2 hours of playing against him.

  3. Loss on The Vice vs Gloomspite Gitz

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
    - Option: Grimscuttle Tribes
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumphs:

    Leaders
    Webspinner Shaman (85)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Prophet of da Spider God
    - Lore of the Spiderfangs: Scuttling Terrors
    Madcap Shaman (80)
    - Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
    - Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
    Bundo Whalebiter (490)
    - Allies

    Battleline
    10 x Spider Riders (200)
    - Reinforced x 1
    10 x Spider Riders (200)
    - Reinforced x 1
    5 x Spider Riders (100)
    5 x Spider Riders (100)
    5 x Spider Riders (100)
    20 x Shootas (140)

    Units
    6 x Sneaky Snufflers (75)
    6 x Rockgut Troggoths (290)
    - Reinforced x 1
    3 x Rippa's Snarlfangs (70)

    Endless Spells & Invocations
    Horrorghast (65)

    Core Battalions
    *Battle Regiment
    **Battle Regiment

    Total: 1995 / 2000
    Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
    Allies: 490 / 400
    Wounds: 172
    Drops: 2
     

    Overview

    I can't really give a proper overview of this game because if I'm honest I spent more time having a laugh with the other player than concentrating on the game. I made 5/6 major errors which he capitalized on very well which turned it into a convincing 2-18 loss. The funniest part of this game is that Bundo was easily his MVP meaning that the best part of his army was the bit which wasn't in the gloomspite book :D

    Despite that it was a thoroughly enjoyable game and he got my best sports vote.

    Note to self: When the opponent chooses a battle tactic don't go "Isn't that just strictly worse than this other one" which may have cost me 3 tournament points during the game

  4. Win on Apex Predators vs Kharadron Overlords

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
    - Sky Port: Barak Zilfin
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumphs:

    Leaders
    Aether-Khemist (90)
    - General
    - Command Trait: Collector
    - Artefact: Staff of Ocular Optimisation
    Aether-Khemist (90)
    - Artefact: Spell in a Bottle
    Aetheric Navigator (95)

    Battleline
    10 x Arkanaut Company (100)
    10 x Arkanaut Company (100)
    Arkanaut Frigate (250)
    - Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon

    Units
    10 x Grundstok Thunderers (270)
    - Reinforced x 1
    10 x Grundstok Thunderers (270)
    - Reinforced x 1
    1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (155)
    - Main Gun: Sky Cannon
    - Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments

    Behemoths
    Arkanaut Ironclad (490)
    - Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
    - Great Endrinworks: The Last Word

    Endless Spells & Invocations
    Warp Lightning Vortex (90)

    Core Battalions
    *Battle Regiment

    Total: 2000 / 2000
    Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 117
    Drops: 2
     

    Overview

    He outdropped me and went first. I popped finest hour on a warchanter because I was worried he'd try and snipe them, this turned out to be a massive mistake. He flew to the top objective above my deployment as I'd setup to limit the impact of warp lightning vortex around, despite this it killed BOTH warchanters and put 4 wounds on the second MK while doing nothing to my ardboys/gg's. The subsequent shooting round he almost killed the MK bringing it down to 3 wounds. In addition he unloaded his secondary aether-khemist onto the objective with his 10 thunderers to screen me out. Importantly this count's as a redeploy not a move so he didn't actually tag the objective.

    He also pushed his two arkanaut companies to the southern objective with his aetheric navigator using a triple run onto the bottom objective to get the run 3 and tag it.

    I then charged both the top and bottom objectives, ignoring the middle since I only had 2 heroes left :| my MK and ardboys at the top objective charged in the hero phase denying his unleash hell. A combination of shooting attacks, a single gg impact hit and stomp then killed the disembarked hero before the combat phase, although I did disappointingly little to the thunderers. On the bottom objective I charged in, minced both his hero on the objective and one unit of arkhanaughts, sadly I was unable to claim either objective but still scored the new "be within 12" of an enemy".

    He wins the roll of for turn 2, which is the only reason it was actually a game at all. My army on the top objective got wiped and his on the bottom got wiped, again he unloaded onto the objective not actually claiming it.

    He again wins the roll for turn 3 and takes it, I burn the top objective and then turtle up on the bottom one for turns 3/4.

    I win turn 5 prio, move onto the middle objective while scoring savage spearhead. On his turn 5 prio he fails to finish the MK, or gg's and as I redeployed off the objective after his general moved up he was unable to tag it scoring 0.

    Another 15-5 win in which my MK's still can't make save rolls, he got lucky on the turn 2 prio roll but got completely decimated by how awful the mission was for him. He successfully held a single objective once during the entire game.

  5. Win on Survival of the Fittest vs Nurgle

    Spoiler

    Allegiance: Nurgle
    - Host of Chaos: Munificent Wanderers
    - Grand Strategy: Prized Sorcery
    - Triumphs:

    Leaders
    Great Unclean One (350)
    - General
    - Plague Flail & Massive Bilesword
    - Command Trait: One Last Gift
    - Artefact: Mucktalon
    - Universal Spell Lore: Flaming Weapon
    Great Unclean One (350)
    - Bile Blade & Doomsday Bell
    - Artefact: The Witherstave
    - Lore of Virulence: Glorious Afflictions
    Rotigus (345)
    - Lore of Virulence: Favoured Poxes
    Sloppity Bilepiper Herald of Nurgle (130)
    Spoilpox Scrivener Herald of Nurgle (125)

    Battleline
    20 x Plaguebearers (220)**
    - Reinforced x 1
    20 x Plaguebearers (220)**
    - Reinforced x 1
    20 x Plaguebearers (220)**
    - Reinforced x 1

    Core Battalions
    *Command Entourage - Magnificent
    **Hunters of the Heartlands

    Total: 1960 / 2000
    Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
    Allies: 0 / 400
    Wounds: 118
    Drops: 8

    Overview

    This game was odd. The terrain was a little unfavourable for both of us in that I was blocked from properly assaulting the southern objective by an obnoxious piece of terrain while he had a huge rock at the front of his deployment zone between him and the central objective.

    I gave him first turn and scared that I would rush to pin him in his deployment zone, which was my plan, he decided to rush his two GUO forward then charged his general into the centre of my line to try to kill mine. He did 3 wounds to me, two of which were from me rolling ones while punching him back.

    My turn 1 I then went all in on his general, charging both MKs into it. The first MK went and killed it so the second, now having no target, piled into his other GUO and randomly killed that. From that point on the game came down to him mashing his face into my ardboys while I sat on the central objective and stopped him getting to it or the northern one giving me a 12-8. Turns out that 20 plaguebearers struggles to get through 15 Ardboys, who knew.

 

Overall I guess I'm ok with my results. The list produced a bunch of grindfests which won me games but didn't net me overwhelming victories.

Now onto my own observations around the list.

Ardboys.
I loved the 15 block, it's so much better than a 10 it's unbelievable due to how much harder it is for people to blow it up and the fact you can position the unit to guarantee yourself at least 1 rally. That said two blocks of 15 was absolute overkill, I found one of them would lock down a hyper crucial choke point then the other would bumble about not really able to find the sapce to do anything. Given the choice I'd swap one block of 15 back into a block of 10 Brutes or even 6 GG's.

GG's/Bloodtoofs
These were absolutely useless to me, overwhelmingly I used them as very expensive screening units and when I did get them into combat they had a negligible effect. I could have swapped both these for 5 ardboys and it wouldn't have made a difference.

MK's
I think we all know how good they are right now. I liked fast un and used it to good effect several times, the armour of gork was ok and did what I wanted. Amulet of destiny is solid as hell while the 5+ CP generator was so tasty.

Warchanters
How do I squeeze a third into my list...

Battalions
The battle regiment was worthless, most people were running 1/2 drops and with the unit of 15 ardboys I didn't actually care about being forced to push them up. I think hunters of the heartlands would just be way more useful. 

 

Other People

So there were several other things floating around. Overwhelmingly the consensus among so of the best players in the UK seemed to be that with the recent GG buff the best build is easily 2MK, 3WC and 6/6 Pigs plus whatever else you can fit.

One of the really common combos I saw, and which seemed to do really well, was Amulet of Destiny + Smelly one on the second MK. They then took Arcane Tome on the general with the Master of Magic command trait and Bash Em Lads. Turn 1, put mystic shield on the Tank Cabbage then throw it across the board while laughing. Master of Magic makes the odds of both spells going off much better and generally makes them far more usable.

Most people seemed to lean towards Ironsunz or GG heavy Bloodtoofs lists. There was only 1 choppas list which I'd put down to a combination of people not having 30+ brutes and it being really hard to fit 2 MK's, 3WC and 30 Brutes into a list.

My List Changes

So I have another way more casual tournament next weekend. I'm going to be swapping back to Ironsunz, trying out the other MK setup, swapping out 15 ardboys for 10 brutes and getting rid of the Battle Regiment.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (255)*
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)**

Units
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Pig-iron Choppas

Core Battalions
*Hunters of the Heartlands
**Warlord

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 8

Hopefully this is useful for people despite my ****** poor performance!

Edited by Malakree
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8 hours ago, QuinacridoneGold said:

That Is very unusual and interesting! Also, i might Just be able to field the same list having a single MK. Care to share your ideas? (PS saluti da Roma!)

ciao da Genova!!

the focus of this list is another approach to IJ. on web there are many exemples of aggressive IJ lists, this is another way to play the army.

they key of this list are 2x3 grunta. i use them to screen and countercharge with faq mighty destroyer. the 2nd megaboss with destroyer is good because i can attack last with him. pop destroyer , and kill so many things on the board. i love him

maw is played defensive, i use hero move to take late gaem objectives

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Thanks for the post @Malakree. Seems like it's overwhelming consensus here in the US is very close to what you mention from the UK crew. Everyone is running some version of 2 MK, 3 warchanters, 12 pigs ( I prefer 1x6 and 2x3) in Bloodtoofs. Obviously, there's a lot of variation with artifact/mount trait set-ups. Here's the one I prefer: 

 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
- Jagged Gore-hackas

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120
Drops: 10
 

The General MK is staying out of threat range (literally back corner of the board against some lists), hopefully out of unbind range, and using Fast'un to jump in the fray once the opportunity arises( usually T2 w/ waagh after some skirmishing).  

That said, I'm sticking with my 21 GG/ 1 MK list because I like to think I'm a unique and special snowflake and arguably think it's just as good. 

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Interesting points, although I think with 2 MKs, I'd prefer beefing up a unit rather than getting a 3rd warchanter, simply to have more board presence, logically I could buff up 3 gruntas with double damage, or for 35 pts more simply have twice as many, which seems like an efficient deal when bodies are lacking.

Mawkrusha loadouts are an interesting topic, as they are quite flexible. I like the idea of the super tank combo, with 1 with arcane tome for mystic shield, and the other with amulet and smelly un trait, which will often result in the opponent needing to throw a lot of resources into removing it.

On the other hand spells are unreliable and Ironjawz depend on doing as much damage in as short a time as possible, with the best defence being offence, as you can then smash and bash to avoid counter attacks. Having a MK with the fast un trait and destroyer enables this best, as it is basically a guided missile with enough damage to be a major threat to anything in the game. This guy is the only one with a chance to outright 1 shot a mega gargant, or any of the god models with some reliability during waaagh. With triple move he can go exactly where needed. Hero phase and hero phase charge after, might also enable some tricks to counter redeploy and unleash hell. So while I'd really love to have a wizard available, I have a hard time giving up the destroyer fast un krusha, as this is similar to having a nuclear missile ready to launch and it completely messes with your opponent.

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Stonks for the Pigs and Bloodtoofs just seem to keep rising. 

People generally seem to still be in a 2.0 mindset and havent really realized just how much the combat phase has changed and how its actually different to any other phase in AoS3.0. In the Core Rules 12.5 the combat phase is very specifically described as to how it works, which is where the Bloodtoofs ability really gets to shine.

Since the ability to charge something happens at the end of the combat phase, it means whatever your Pigs charge are not allowed to fight back, since this happens at step 3, and your charge is step 5.

This also means you can do things like kill 3 Screamers with your Pigs, Bloodtoof charge into Archaon and now he is tied up the following turn and is forced to spend 1/5 battlerounds fighting 150 pts. He will obviously kill them, but wont get to move unless he decides to retreat, but 1) the huge base will limit to where he can go and 2) he effectively wasted a turn as well. 

Bloodtoofs seem insane even for "non-alpha" lists due to the ability to pin, movement and area denial. 

 

  

Edited by Kasper
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1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

On the other hand spells are unreliable and Ironjawz depend on doing as much damage in as short a time as possible, with the best defence being offence, as you can then smash and bash to avoid counter attacks. Having a MK with the fast un trait and destroyer enables this best, as it is basically a guided missile with enough damage to be a major threat to anything in the game. This guy is the only one with a chance to outright 1 shot a mega gargant, or any of the god models with some reliability during waaagh. With triple move he can go exactly where needed. Hero phase and hero phase charge after, might also enable some tricks to counter redeploy and unleash hell. So while I'd really love to have a wizard available, I have a hard time giving up the destroyer fast un krusha, as this is similar to having a nuclear missile ready to launch and it completely messes with your opponent.

How often do you really need to tripple move? Its 36".. Thats like from board edge to board edge. I have only found this useful when you want to alpha and want to engage something at the back corner of the opponent's castle while pushing something else in from another direction to pin them back, otherwise it seems a bit overkill, especially if you arent given the first turn. 

I find it really difficult to discuss the loadout on the Maw Krushas because it really depends on how you play and what the rest of your list looks like. If all you do is alpha your opponent, then loadout is gonna be signfiicantly different than if you intend to play an objective based game. 

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2 minutes ago, Kasper said:

How often do you really need to tripple move? Its 36".. Thats like from board edge to board edge. I have only found this useful when you want to alpha and want to engage something at the back corner of the opponent's castle while pushing something else in from another direction to pin them back, otherwise it seems a bit overkill, especially if you arent given the first turn. 

I find it really difficult to discuss the loadout on the Maw Krushas because it really depends on how you play and what the rest of your list looks like. If all you do is alpha your opponent, then loadout is gonna be signfiicantly different than if you intend to play an objective based game. 

Fast'Un allows your MK a 3" charge in hero phase, to avoid redeploy / unleash hell. It allows do things you couldn't do whithout it.

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7 minutes ago, glytch said:

Fast'Un allows your MK a 3" charge in hero phase, to avoid redeploy / unleash hell. It allows do things you couldn't do whithout it.

Sure and thats the best usage of it in my mind, tripple move is way overkill in an army that is already incredibly mobile. Unleash Hell can be prevented by sending in 5 Ardboyz but more realistically 3 Pigs first. You can also just ignore it because alot of shooting units arent THAT scary when they are -1 to hit from UH against a 2+ 5++ MK anyways. Obviously there are some units I would like to avoid being shot at (Sentinels come to mind) but yeah.

It might be a local meta thing but generally Im not too afraid of being shot to pieces. We have luckily very few Sentinels players in general. I havent had any issues with DoK.

Personally I would prefer having my MK as tanky as possible vs combat armies or for pinning my opponent back from grabbing objectives.  

Edit: Come to think of it, how often are you within a good charge distance after a simple 12" free move? Most nasty shooting units have an immense range or are being teleported around, so not sure how often you really get to prevent Unleash Hell on some of the nasty units?

Edited by Kasper
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27 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Since the ability to charge something happens at the end of the combat phase, it means whatever your Pigs charge are not allowed to fight back, since this happens at step 3. In fact they can charge a Gotrek and he wont be able to use his "fight last" because that happens at step 4, and your charge is step 5.

Gotrek fights again at the end of the combat phase. The Gruntas do their move/charge at the end of the combat phase, so this would entirely depend on who has the turn. If you made the charge on your turn and clear out a unit, then get to the end of the combat phase and charge Gotrek, it is then the opponent who does "end of combat phase" stuff after you, so Gotrek would be able to attack in this scenario. 

The grunta ability is great regardless though, with hackas especially the additional charge could deal a bunch of extra mortal wounds as well. It should not be ignored how the pile in or especially the normal move can be great as well. If no enemy unit is present after combat, you can then move the gruntas into as favorable a position as possible, either with a better frontage, or blocking or continue onto an objective the dead unit possibly blocked off, it is great, especially as it costs 0 CP unlike Ironsunz. I love the Ironsunz counter charge, but I never have any CP to spare...

12 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Obviously there are some units I would like to avoid being shot at (Sentinels come to mind) but yeah.

It might be a local meta thing but generally Im not too afraid of being shot to pieces. We have luckily very few Sentinels players in general. I havent had any issues with DoK.

Personally I would prefer having my MK as tanky as possible vs combat armies or for pinning my opponent back from

I have lost 12 wounds from unleash hell to bowsnakes before, it is not a great thing. Of course a mystic shield would help for any unleash hell (not MW though), so instead of relying on a 1 time per game additional move, the arcane tome + master of magic MK + Amulet MK, is not a bad option at all. Having that rerollable unbind could be a game changer as well. While smelly un does not work after a charge, it for sure brings staying power to take the counter punch, even though it is only for melee.

The primary idea with the destroyer + fast un combo is to keep it at the back, while the gruntas and possibly other MK charges forward. Then in a followup turn, a warchanter can buff up the destroyer MK and with triple move it can reach anywhere on the board and wreck that fly high Ironclad, or Bash in most of the god models regardless of where they go, that is a massive psychological pressure to have that sitting there safely, waiting to "launch". Having access to a mystical shield for the tanking MK is a big deal though against anyone that does not auto unbind it, which is unfortunately quite a few Meta armies, like Lumineth, Tzeentch, Seraphon, Nagash etc who just get massive bonuses to cast and unbind and are common in tournaments.

Armor of Gork is still pretty interesting I think, if not going for speed anyway, -2 move is not terrible when you can move twice, and +1 hit and 6+ ward is rather good.

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21 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Armor of Gork is still pretty interesting I think, if not going for speed anyway, -2 move is not terrible when you can move twice, and +1 hit and 6+ ward is rather good.

It was pretty nice, I just can't roll 6++ ward saves on an MK. On my ardboys it makes them basically invincible but on my MK I can't save anything...

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12 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Gotrek fights again at the end of the combat phase. The Gruntas do their move/charge at the end of the combat phase, so this would entirely depend on who has the turn. If you made the charge on your turn and clear out a unit, then get to the end of the combat phase and charge Gotrek, it is then the opponent who does "end of combat phase" stuff after you, so Gotrek would be able to attack in this scenario. 

The grunta ability is great regardless though, with hackas especially the additional charge could deal a bunch of extra mortal wounds as well. It should not be ignored how the pile in or especially the normal move can be great as well. If no enemy unit is present after combat, you can then move the gruntas into as favorable a position as possible, either with a better frontage, or blocking or continue onto an objective the dead unit possibly blocked off, it is great, especially as it costs 0 CP unlike Ironsunz. I love the Ironsunz counter charge, but I never have any CP to spare...

Yeah I stand corrected, I was thinking of units with strike-last effects. So you probably dont want to charge Gotrek.. 😂 But it will work against anything else which is crazy good for pinning them back, especially larger models like Archaon. The fact the opponent doesnt get to hit back is really big imo.

15 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

I have lost 12 wounds from unleash hell to bowsnakes before, it is not a great thing. Of course a mystic shield would help for any unleash hell (not MW though), so instead of relying on a 1 time per game additional move, the arcane tome + master of magic MK + Amulet MK, is not a bad option at all. Having that rerollable unbind could be a game changer as well. While smelly un does not work after a charge, it for sure brings staying power to take the counter punch, even though it is only for melee.

The primary idea with the destroyer + fast un combo is to keep it at the back, while the gruntas and possibly other MK charges forward. Then in a followup turn, a warchanter can buff up the destroyer MK and with triple move it can reach anywhere on the board and wreck that fly high Ironclad, or Bash in most of the god models regardless of where they go, that is a massive psychological pressure to have that sitting there safely, waiting to "launch". Having access to a mystical shield for the tanking MK is a big deal though against anyone that does not auto unbind it, which is unfortunately quite a few Meta armies, like Lumineth, Tzeentch, Seraphon, Nagash etc who just get massive bonuses to cast and unbind and are common in tournaments.

Armor of Gork is still pretty interesting I think, if not going for speed anyway, -2 move is not terrible when you can move twice, and +1 hit and 6+ ward is rather good.

12 wounds is like.. Absurd luck on his part and your saves were absolute trash then. I guess your MK didnt have Amulet on it? 🤨

My issue with that is you have 1/4 of your army just doing nothing, not even contesting an objective in one end of the map or whatever. I also think the MK has more than enough damage on its own and doesnt need the +3 from a single round. The value from the extra damage feels significantly less than the value you get from having Mystic Shield on the other MK, which amplifies the value of Amulet etc.

Its true some armies will have an easy time unbinding the roll but in some cases you can be outside of range, a least turn 1 and maybe 2. Another question is how much of a threat those magic dom armies pose? I dont think Teclis is scary, we have too many mobile units with too much damage output and they generally lack models, so you can get into the soft bits real fast. Nagash is also not an issue I think - You could potentially kill Nagash in a turn, but you could also very easily kill almost anything else in the army in a single turn. Mortek Guard dont take rend 3 attacks too well. 

I played around with Armor of Gork a bit and I found it pretty trash. 6++ is obviously nowhere near as consistent or good as a 5++, and the +1 hit is only on the Megaboss and not on the rend 2 attacks. The movement penalty also doubles down when you start to double move him. 

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13 minutes ago, Kasper said:

My issue with that is you have 1/4 of your army just doing nothing, not even contesting an objective in one end of the map or whatever.

The idea is just a turn 1 counter punch. Charge in with Gruntas and maybe tanky Crusha, then super frogger in the fast MK with destroyer the next turn, to annihilate whatever scary they threw at you.

If you are good at whiffing it sure comes in handy to have, and is one of the only ways to possibly ensure a Mega Gargant dies before it retaliates, possibly saving a big chunk of damage/death.

At least there are options which is great, it is so cookie cutter these days, so it is actually nice having to make some hard decisions ;)

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6 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

The idea is just a turn 1 counter punch. Charge in with Gruntas and maybe tanky Crusha, then super frogger in the fast MK with destroyer the next turn, to annihilate whatever scary they threw at you.

If you are good at whiffing it sure comes in handy to have, and is one of the only ways to possibly ensure a Mega Gargant dies before it retaliates, possibly saving a big chunk of damage/death.

At least there are options which is great, it is so cookie cutter these days, so it is actually nice having to make some hard decisions ;)

Yeah certainly. Thats why I said its so hard to discuss loadout on the MawKrushas since it so heavily depends on how you play and what you play against. At the end of the day, what matters is what works for you, not what some nerd on the internet tells you to do. 

The only thing Im a bit miffed about is the command traits. Im not blown away by any of them..

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Again a list comment post!

Got my first 2000 pt game going in two days. I only have accesso to a single Maw Krusha and a maximum of 9 pigs, 25 brutes and 30 ardboys (thanks, AoS 2.0) , What do you think of these lists? 

NOTE: weapon loadout for brutes and pigs is Jagged Gore Hacka, not the choppa.

 

I Need a few comments on your preferences for mount trait and command trait! Was thinking about Fast Un and Mega Bossy to get all that mobility across the table and compensate the slow movement of all my brutes.

LIST 1 - No Gruntas

Spoiler

list1.JPG.d33d3725d4fc78130e74290f451f81f4.JPG

 

LIST 2

Spoiler

list2.JPG.261a1c1ac99214fed828424d6e31dcf6.JPG

 

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