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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion


Chris Tomlin
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55 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys can I use magaboss ability to give a command ability to 2 of my units on himself and another unit? Or they must be another unit? Thx a lot and sorry for bad english:)

A unit can issue a command ability to themselves. It just says when you use it you can also trigger it on a second unit.

So yes you can issue it to the MB and another unit.

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Thinking about a Gargant style Ironsunz list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Hulking Brute
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Smelly 'Un
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)*
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (90)*
- Lore of the Weird: Bash 'Em Ladz

Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)***
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)***
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (160)***
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (430)**
Rogue Idol (430)**

Core Battalions
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
**Alpha-Beast Pack
***Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 107
Drops: 8

Megaboss can boost the Idols up with double move and all out defense pretty reliably, all 3 big monsters have a 5+ ward so will be tough to shift. Wasn't too sure what else to fill the list with actually figured Brutes seem a great unit with their objective denial and battleline, I had enough points left for x2 Shamans so in they go, shame they can't be Wardokks.

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57 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys another question, with my megaboss i can use a command ability to 2 units , what happen if I can that on a maw crusha? He can spread that on 3 unit? Basically with that can I have 5 units with mighty destroyers?

You can only use each command once per phase. There's a command trait (mega bossy) that lets your general use mighty destroyers even if another unit issued that command that phase. So if you had a mega bossy megaboss on maw krusha, and a foot megaboss you could mighty destroyers 5 units. If you had double maw krusha you could mighty destroyer 6 units.

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On 9/20/2021 at 2:53 AM, DeadpoolNakago said:

As for coherency, I get that. I gotta be no more than 2 deep, and with 30 thats 15 across, 2 deep. 

yeah, you are right. i probably had a nighttime mental block while writing about coherency.  :ph34r:

Edited by dnusha
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Some thoughts on mount traits - Im currently debating on how to equip my 2 Maw Krushas.

  1. Tough 'Un - Sounds good on paper but actually feels worthless. Monsters in general bracket much slower than what they did in AoS2. A Maw Krusha at half health is still an incredible beast, both movement and damage output, so I dont see the appeal in this mount trait at all.
  2. Fast 'Un - Feels really good but in general I also just love having movement so I can be wherever I want to be. Being able to move 36" + 2D6 charge is amazing and it effectively achieves the same as a deepstriking ability - It forces your opponent to deploy and position completely different because you can flank almost whatever on the board at will. There might be a play to keep this for turn 2 or later so you can quickly flap around on the board into a key location to Slay the Warlord or whatever, instead of just bumrushing the opponent turn 1. 
  3. Mean 'Un - Is actually pretty good, especially paired with Hulking Brute command trait. Doing D3 MWs after charging on a 2+ followed by a D6+3 MWs from Stomping on a 2+ is ALOT. It can severely hurt a unit or outright kill a smaller hero. Especially good in this edition with save stacking and our general lack of MW output. You can also use this combo combined with the shooting attack to destroy a 10 man screen and then do a D6 move to Stomp again. 
  4. Loud 'Un - Seems OK if you get into a situation where you want multiple units affected. Most strong units are already in Heartlands batallion to prevent being Roar'd in the first place, so a single target Roar is probably fine. The opponent is also not gonna buff multiple units with AoA/AoD anyways in most cases? Not too sure what its actually gonna achieve on the table.
  5. Weird 'Un - This was incredible in AoS2 but the "nerf" making it just a 4+ ward against spells and endless spells instead of spell ignore makes this kinda worthless to me. There arent many current lists in the meta that bombard you with MW output through spells so this seems niche. If it was a spell ignore on a 4+ I would be all over it since it would also negate debuffs, but alas seems weak atm. 
  6. Smelly 'Un - I could see this being great on a MK with Amulet of Destiny. Charge in and do a bunch of damage, kill whatever you charged. When the opponent countercharge you the following turn you now have acccess to Finest Hour + All-out Defense, leaving him on a 2+ save (ignoring rend 1 from save stacking), with a 5+ ward save and the opponent is -1 to hit ontop of this. Not a lot is gonna put a huge dent into him. My only gripe is that it doesnt affect shooting.

 For me its probably Mean > Fast > Smelly. Not sure what you guys think or have experienced already.

Edited by Kasper
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9 minutes ago, Kasper said:

For me its probably Mean > Fast > Smelly. Not sure what you guys think or have experienced already.

Personally I'll be going fast un and won't be bothering with the second mount trait. It's not as valuable as the second artefact and I don't think I'd ever want to go double magnificent. If I did it would probably be for an extra spell in big waaagh rather than a mount trait.

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9 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

You can only use each command once per phase. There's a command trait (mega bossy) that lets your general use mighty destroyers even if another unit issued that command that phase. So if you had a mega bossy megaboss on maw krusha, and a foot megaboss you could mighty destroyers 5 units. If you had double maw krusha you could mighty destroyer 6 units.

Wow that seems very strong!!

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1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Personally I'll be going fast un and won't be bothering with the second mount trait. It's not as valuable as the second artefact and I don't think I'd ever want to go double magnificent. If I did it would probably be for an extra spell in big waaagh rather than a mount trait.

I dont see myself not playing 2 MKs in this edition in Ironjawz, so by default I wont ever be below 5 drops since Warlord feels mandatory for such a list. At this point does it really matter if you are 5 drops or 10-11? Probably not, so might as well go double Warlord imo.

Im currently considering 1 MK as general with Hulking Brute trait + Mean'un mount trait + Amulet of Destiny artefact. Survivable with a bunch of impact hits when charging/Stomping.

I played the other with Fast 'Un and Destroyer and while the damage from that one turn with Waagh and Destroyer activated was awesome, Im thinking of trying Armor of Gork + Smelly 'Un. The damage is "good enough" without Destroyer, unless you play something like Archaon I guess, but in that case you probably want to destroy the rest of his army anyways. 

Alternatively I could go Arcane Tome on a Warchanter for Mystic Shield, but gonna give Smelly 'Un a try.

Edited by Kasper
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11 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I dont see myself not playing 2 MKs in this edition in Ironjawz, so by default I wont ever be below 5 drops since Warlord feels mandatory for such a list. At this point does it really matter if you are 5 drops or 10-11? Probably not, so might as well go double Warlord imo.

Im currently considering 1 MK as general with Hulking Brute trait + Mean'un mount trait + Amulet of Destiny artefact. Survivable with a bunch of impact hits when charging/Stomping.

I played the other with Fast 'Un and Destroyer and while the damage from that one turn with Waagh and Destroyer activated was awesome, Im thinking of trying Armor of Gork + Smelly 'Un. The damage is "good enough" without Destroyer, unless you play something like Archaon I guess, but in that case you probably want to destroy the rest of his army anyways. 

Alternatively I could go Arcane Tome on a Warchanter for Mystic Shield, but gonna give Smelly 'Un a try.

I'm actually going to go Amulet on my general and Fast Un + armour of gork on the 2nd to offset the -2 move penalty. Means when I want to go I can actually go.

Have a tournament coming up this weekend which has a bunch of really solid players, will give a report with my feelings on it afterwards. It's worth noting that unique characters aren't allowed there so it skews it somewhat.

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2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I'm actually going to go Amulet on my general and Fast Un + armour of gork on the 2nd to offset the -2 move penalty. Means when I want to go I can actually go.

Have a tournament coming up this weekend which has a bunch of really solid players, will give a report with my feelings on it afterwards. It's worth noting that unique characters aren't allowed there so it skews it somewhat.

Im curious what direction you are going, wanna share or keep it tight due to the tournament coming up? :D

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26 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I'm actually going to go Amulet on my general and Fast Un + armour of gork on the 2nd to offset the -2 move penalty. Means when I want to go I can actually go.

Have a tournament coming up this weekend which has a bunch of really solid players, will give a report with my feelings on it afterwards. It's worth noting that unique characters aren't allowed there so it skews it somewhat.

That is a really nice environment for Ironjawz, no Teclis, Archaons, Kairos, Belakors.. What a wonderful world for a Waaagh ;) Interested in hearing the results from this though and the list performance. 

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11 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

That is a really nice environment for Ironjawz, no Teclis, Archaons, Kairos, Belakors.. What a wonderful world for a Waaagh ;) Interested in hearing the results from this though and the list performance. 

To be honest I wish more tournaments would do it, most of the unique characters are cancerous atm. Gotrek, Morathi, Archaon etc.

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*

Units
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Pig-iron Choppas

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 5

That's my list. Idea being that when I want to go I can have the 2 cabbages and the GG's rush forward and Waaagh! with the charge reroll. Gives me potentially 18" move on the GG's, 24" on the general, and 30" on the 2nd cabbage, all with charge reroll so I should have a pretty solid alphastrike if I need it. I get a ward save on both cabbages which is so tasty.

EDIT: Even Gordrakk can be pretty toxic in big waaagh! with 3 unleash hell triggers for a CP.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (560)

Battleline

Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1

Total: 1280 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 56
Drops: 4

Tell me that isn't some kind of dirty.

Edited by Malakree
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Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (560)
Orruk Warchanter (115)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Lore of the Weird: Foot of Gork
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
Wurrgog Prophet (150)
- Artefact: Glowin' Tattooz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)
- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist

Battleline
10 x Savage Orruks (165)
- Chompas
10 x Savage Orruks (165)
- Chompas
10 x Savage Orruks (165)
- Chompas

Artillery
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)
Beast-skewer Killbow (130)

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
Drops: 12


Some notable inclusions.

  • Triple killbow overwatch with potential to have gordrakk replace one if you just want number of shots (6 at 2+/3+/-1/1 is not shabbby)
  • Foot of Gork with reroll for that warchanter. Especially nice once you hit that +1 to cast/unbind/dispell.
  • Mork's eye pebble giving a 5++ ward save bubble for one enemy shooting phase. Great for if lumineth decides to try and gun down big G.
  • Warchanter with rerollable foot of gork cast. Especially nice once you trigger that +1 to cast/unbind/dispel
  • Nasty hex for when gotrek decides to be gotrek. 
  • The +2 to ward save on the Wurrgog for a 3++ under the pebble or a 4++ native. Combine with the Mask for hilarity then heal up with both fixin beat and the wardokk before going for round 2!
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25 minutes ago, Malakree said:

To be honest I wish more tournaments would do it, most of the unique characters are cancerous atm. Gotrek, Morathi, Archaon etc.

That's my list. Idea being that when I want to go I can have the 2 cabbages and the GG's rush forward and Waaagh! with the charge reroll. Gives me potentially 18" move on the GG's, 24" on the general, and 30" on the 2nd cabbage, all with charge reroll so I should have a pretty solid alphastrike if I need it. I get a ward save on both cabbages which is so tasty.

EDIT: Even Gordrakk can be pretty toxic in big waaagh! with 3 unleash hell triggers for a CP.

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Gordrakk the Fist of Gork (560)

Battleline

Units
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (240)
- Reinforced x 1

Total: 1280 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 56
Drops: 4

Tell me that isn't some kind of dirty.

But does 5 drops really matter? I mean against the armies that you want to alpha/punish, they will likely be lower drops. I feel like 5 is too high a drop count to matter compared to getting Mystic Shield on one of your MKs or a 2nd mount trait.  

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3 minutes ago, Kasper said:

But does 5 drops really matter? I mean against the armies that you want to alpha/punish, they will likely be lower drops. I feel like 5 is too high a drop count to matter compared to getting Mystic Shield on one of your MKs or a 2nd mount trait.  

I mean, a lot of the ones I want to alphastrike are going to force me to go first...

Oh and I don't have the heroes for double warlord or command entourage. 

Edited by Malakree
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2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I mean, a lot of the ones I want to alphastrike are going to force me to go first...

Oh and I don't have the heroes for double warlord or command entourage. 

Yeah the hero count is an issue. Thats why I took 2x MK, 3x Warchanter (tripple buff on 3 units that are also tripple MD'd) and 1 Weirdnob. My list is light on bodies for sure, but Im not sure you need a whole lot of bodies with 3 major threats in 2 MKs and 1 unit of 6 Pigs. When/if they die they should hopefully have traded or carved out a large portion of the opponent's units. Im tempted to split the 6 Pigs into 2x3 and keep 1 unit back for a bit of oomph if needed for the later turns once the 2 MKs and 3 Pigs have gone off to do their work.

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Similar to the previous list, I think this list here is pretty well optimized for 3.0 with 2 MKs, 6 Gruntas, a second wave of brutes and some ardboyz for objective grabbing and/or a bit of screening. Running IronSunz

The idea is as usual a terrifying alpha potential from very long distance, even if the opponent tries to flank, IronSun allow for counter charges, making it hard to lock down one thing without taking a massive counter punch. 

3 Huge threats with fast movement and a 2nd wave of brutes that can clean up most things left standing. 

The fast MK with destroyer should kill a Mega Gargant on average, with a monstrous 38 average damage against a 3+ save during Waagh and if he uses all out attack + finest hour. This should basically kill anything and trigger smashing and bashing, to really cripple the opponent.

Of course the usual weaknesses are present, such as poor reach, so armies with screens are as always a problem. Gotrek and Morathi are of course also a problem, as they are impossible to kill and will murder the relatively squishy Ironjawz.

Might not be 5/5 potential, but it any lists without the tools to deal with these guys will get bashed good...

 

Spoiler

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Destroyer
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)**
- Pair of Brute Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)**
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Ardboyz(85)**
5 x Ardboyz (85)*
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
Drops: 9

 

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I think Destroyer is good when you are FOR SURE have to activate Smashing and Bashing on that one unit of 10 brutes (on waagh turn) with 3A -3 -1(2) near that one expensive/important/multi wounds enemy unit while simultaneously also killing something important behind the enemy lines with MK.

- md charge brutes into position (yeah)

-md/fly MBMK far away to his target

-waagh- MBMK Destroyer -SnB- Brutes smash something near them into small pieces.

 

 

All out MW charge build is kinda random. Warlord Trait + Mount Trait + Bulk = d3  + d6 + 3(w/o degradation). AVG 8-9 wounds (not bad!), 12 at best, zero at worse(it's hard to not roll +2 though.) from your first charge. And 6-7 from subsequent stomps.(w/o charge) Only one monster can do a Stomp per turn.  Actually it doesn't look that bad. (warlord trait - we are probably gonna cast all out defence on MKs anyway, waagh charge rerolls - that may hurt but ok) (mount traits - no fast un or other un - bad) .  Kinda maybe it's gonna work with turn 1 gore gruntas charge for additional MWs, or maybe charge 1 target with two MKs one by one (well that sounds like a waste but). The only reliable way to free MK from combat is to kill everyone around it with other units. BUT IMAGINE HOW HILLARIOUS WOULD IT BE TO ONE SHOT NEW SC 8 WOUNDS BIG DADDY THAT FULLY HEALS HIMSELF EVERY TURN ON YOUR FIRST CHARGE.

 

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54 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Similar to the previous list, I think this list here is pretty well optimized for 3.0 with 2 MKs, 6 Gruntas, a second wave of brutes and some ardboyz for objective grabbing and/or a bit of screening. Running IronSunz

The idea is as usual a terrifying alpha potential from very long distance, even if the opponent tries to flank, IronSun allow for counter charges, making it hard to lock down one thing without taking a massive counter punch. 

3 Huge threats with fast movement and a 2nd wave of brutes that can clean up most things left standing. 

The fast MK with destroyer should kill a Mega Gargant on average, with a monstrous 38 average damage against a 3+ save during Waagh and if he uses all out attack + finest hour. This should basically kill anything and trigger smashing and bashing, to really cripple the opponent.

Of course the usual weaknesses are present, such as poor reach, so armies with screens are as always a problem. Gotrek and Morathi are of course also a problem, as they are impossible to kill and will murder the relatively squishy Ironjawz.

Might not be 5/5 potential, but it any lists without the tools to deal with these guys will get bashed good...

 

  Hide contents

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Destroyer
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
Orruk Warchanter (115)*
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)**
- Pair of Brute Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)**
- Pig-iron Choppas
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Ardboyz(85)**
5 x Ardboyz (85)*
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
Artefact

Total: 1980 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 124
Drops: 9

 

Very similar to what I posted. It just feels bad not to have both MKs and Pigs Warchanted.. Maybe 3 Warchanters is too greedy. I also do like the Weirdnob, if anything the threat of the teleport - Though I would likely cast Mystic Shield most times anyways. 

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3 hours ago, Kasper said:

Very similar to what I posted. It just feels bad not to have both MKs and Pigs Warchanted.. Maybe 3 Warchanters is too greedy. I also do like the Weirdnob, if anything the threat of the teleport - Though I would likely cast Mystic Shield most times anyways. 

Idea is to lead with warchanter on the "missile" Krusha to for sure murder the toughest thing possible, this is of course mostly against armies with little to no screens, which does happen sometimes. If there is no such clear target, this could be delayed a bit. Gruntas is a good target for a warchanter and highly efficient, you ideally want to at least trigger 2 smashing and bashing, so the tanky Krusha can manage without and still do some horrific damage by itself, they are still plenty scary, especially during waaagh just with the base warscroll stats.

Problem with the Weirdnob is just how unreliable it is, any half decent enemy caster will just make him a waste of points most of the time I think.

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1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

Problem with the Weirdnob is just how unreliable it is, any half decent enemy caster will just make him a waste of points most of the time I think.

I think I'm just going to take a Fungoid Cave-Shaman for Mystic Shield- better defense, chance of a CP each turn, 2 spells for one turn, all for 5 points more. 

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Enjoying the possibilities with double megaboss right now:

Mawkrusha and 2x pigs  get warchanter buffs, mighty destroyers into a flank for turn 1 to just be a "problem"

 

Foot megaboss (the general) with 2x brutes to mighty destroyers into the mid board, to own it and clear objectives.

Ard boyz to follow up, with footboss MD moves putting them where they need to be. Alternative is gutrippas being put there by hand of gork in big waagh

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