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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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I realise he's at least 60 points overcosted but I'm really looking forward to running gordrakk in my lists, sucks he didn't get rend 2 axes but I think there's some worth to having a backup general for calling the waaagh in case your main krusha or other general gets sniped before the key turn. Pretty much makes amulet of destiny even more essential for your general now though. Losing metalrippa was a big blow as well but the extra fist damage at least makes up for it.

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@Warmill he’ll get -2 during a Waaaagh so that’s nice! And yes, losing Metalrippers Klaw is a bummer (perhaps -4 rend during a Waaaagh was too much?) but giving a Footboss Destroyer during a Waaaagh nets him 8+ attacks at -2 5(maybe 6) damage!!!!!

 

@Carniththe rule says they can target 3 (or 2) instead of 1 no? So they could still target 3 (or 2) units for AOA and AOD. This is where Battletome trumps rule book no?

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27 minutes ago, Carnith said:

So what I'm now hearing is All out Attack and All out Defense wouldn't work with megaboss as the trigger conditions are different. Could you give all out attack to a unit that isn't fighting yet from this ability? Faqs are needed. 

I had a lengthy discussion about this on the fb group and imo spamming all out attack and defence is perfectly valid. My boring technical reasoning is this:20210912_094502.jpg.b829b955172e97b355f6005a858d4d8b.jpg

Green shows what the trigger requirements are to issue the AOD  CA: use it when a unit is targeted. The purple is the second requirement: the unit that is targeted must receive the CA. The red is the benefit the unit gets.

So a unit is targeted, that triggers being able to use the CA from the megaboss, requirement 1 met. You can issue it to 3 units, one of whom will be the unit that was targeted: that fulfills the second requirement, THAT unit receives the CA, so you're then free to use it on 2 other units while still meeting the requirement. The CA doesn't say that the unit must BE targeted to receive AOD, only that the unit that IS targeted must, which it does as one of 3 units.

 

That's my rules lawyer argument, the real argument is of course it's intended for you to be able to spam CAs cos it's the battletome and it takes priority.

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@Warmill People saying gordrakk is overcosted in comparison to what normal BoMK can do, but he's the only character that can give three commands per turn to ANY friendly unit in Big Waagh. His ability affect friendly UNITS unlike BoMK that only affects Ironjaws. Unleash hell or All out attack for 3 full units or arrowboys or new crossbow dudes per turn?  You can have that now.  First turn fast At the double piggies to cut your opponent from objectives? You can have that now. Opponent charges? Redeloy your entire line of shooters with Redeploy.(or just kill them with UH)

 

Gordrakk is 560 vs MK 480. thats 80 points.

pros: 

- 3 Commands to ANY units in Big Waagh per turn. (do IJ still have GSG as an ally? If so...) is this alone worth 80 points? Maybe.

- 2 more wounds

- gets an additional attack per turn for killing a model (because he has two weapons so 2 attacks per turn)

- has 3 more attacks than BoMK (because BoMK with a riptooth fist has 7 attacks in default profile)

- deal mortal wounds with half of his melee attacks on 4+ (it's either wizard or not) 

-hits on 2 instead of 3 

-his MK roar has 2 more attacks(6) (BoMK has 4)

-His MK has one more attack thank a usual one

-Does one more mortal wound if Stomp Monster Rampage is used with stronger destructive bulk

-He is a general (you still gonna have d6 waagh points per turn if your other general gonna die)

 

cons: 

- 4+ save instead of 3+ on usual MK (riptooth fist in not even +1 save, it changes save from 4 to 3 which is awesome because it's not a +1 modifier)

- unable to pick warlord traits (no access to 5-6 mighty destroyers per turn or charge rerolls during IJ waagh)

-unable to pick artefacts which in our case means unable to take 5+ ward save (this in conjunction with 4+ save make him very vulnerable).

 

Gordrak is tailored to be a melee powerhouse, but he needs to survive and in comparison to BoMK he lasks alot of things in that department. People gonna focus him hard, even harder than before because  in 3rd edition Megabosses had become literally the pillars or Ork armies, Without multiple commands from megabosses troops gonna go down fast. My take on this is that Gordrak is good in big waagh, and for sure worth 80 points, otherwise BoMK is way better in almost everything. Also two BoMK is not a mistake imo. Permanent all out defence + mistic shield should do the work to keep them alive.

Edited by dnusha
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Good to see the discussion now online is into the nitty gritty of how to use IJ effectively and a lot less of the complaining about the potential of IJ being sidelined in this new book. 

I'm excited to get my Brutes on the table, finish painting my 2nd MK and Gore-gruntas. I've even made a start on some new ardboy counts as, from the beastsnagga boyz. 

Happy times. 

 

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7 hours ago, dnusha said:

@Warmill People saying gordrakk is overcosted in comparison to what normal BoMK can do, but he's the only character that can give three commands per turn to ANY friendly unit in Big Waagh. His ability affect friendly UNITS unlike BoMK that only affects Ironjaws. Unleash hell or All out attack for 3 full units or arrowboys or new crossbow dudes per turn?  You can have that now.  First turn fast At the double piggies to cut your opponent from objectives? You can have that now. Opponent charges? Redeloy your entire line of shooters with Redeploy.(or just kill them with UH)

 

Gordrakk is 560 vs MK 480. thats 80 points.

pros: 

- 3 Commands to ANY units in Big Waagh per turn. (do IJ still have GSG as an ally? If so...) is this alone worth 80 points? Maybe.

- 2 more wounds

- gets an additional attack per turn for killing a model (because he has two weapons so 2 attacks per turn)

- has 3 more attacks than BoMK (because BoMK with a riptooth fist has 7 attacks in default profile)

- deal mortal wounds with half of his melee attacks on 4+ (it's either wizard or not) 

-hits on 2 instead of 3 

-his MK roar has 2 more attacks(6) (BoMK has 4)

-His MK has one more attack thank a usual one

-Does one more mortal wound if Stomp Monster Rampage is used with stronger destructive bulk

-He is a general (you still gonna have d6 waagh points per turn if your other general gonna die)

 

cons: 

- 4+ save instead of 3+ on usual MK (riptooth fist in not even +1 save, it changes save from 4 to 3 which is awesome because it's not a +1 modifier)

- unable to pick warlord traits (no access to 5-6 mighty destroyers per turn or charge rerolls during IJ waagh)

-unable to pick artefacts which in our case means unable to take 5+ ward save (this in conjunction with 4+ save make him very vulnerable).

 

Gordrak is tailored to be a melee powerhouse, but he needs to survive and in comparison to BoMK he lasks alot of things in that department. People gonna focus him hard, even harder than before because  in 3rd edition Megabosses had become literally the pillars or Ork armies, Without multiple commands from megabosses troops gonna go down fast. My take on this is that Gordrak is good in big waagh, and for sure worth 80 points, otherwise BoMK is way better in almost everything. Also two BoMK is not a mistake imo. Permanent all out defence + mistic shield should do the work to keep them alive.

I've always been a big fan of double krusha and krusha/gordrakk and to be honest I alway treated gordrakk as a little sub-game of how much can I level him up. I think ironsunz is probably the best clan for him so you can get him fighting as many turns as possible to really boost the axes. Gordrakk + shaman general with touched by the waagh could be a fun combo as well, so you can try and cast foot of gork without missing out on the waaagh turn if the shaman gets sniped early.

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26 minutes ago, SunStorm said:

Good to see the discussion now online is into the nitty gritty of how to use IJ effectively and a lot less of the complaining about the potential of IJ being sidelined in this new book. 

I'm excited to get my Brutes on the table, finish painting my 2nd MK and Gore-gruntas. I've even made a start on some new ardboy counts as, from the beastsnagga boyz. 

Happy times. 

 

Be sure to post pictures of the Beast snaga-Ardboyz. I have been looking at converting the Blood bowl back orcs myself, because the Beast snagas were perhaps too metal/techy 🙂

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Gordrakk + Mega bossy foot-megaboss can mighty destroyers 5 units a turn for 2cp, and throw around all out attack/all out defense to a bunch of units. Gordrakk being significantly less durable than a normal MBoMK is a bit of an issue though. Makes me wonder how viable double cabbage will be.
Something like:
Clan- Bloodtoofs
560- Gordrakk
480- MBoMK
     Artifact: Amulet of Destiny
     Mount Trait: Mean 'un
160- Megaboss
  General
  Command Trait: Mega Bossy
  Artifact: Destroyer
115- Warchanter
   Artifact:Arcane Tome
115- Warchanter
90- Orruk Wierdnob Shaman/Fungoid
150- 3x Gore-Gruntas

150- 3x Gore-Gruntas

150-3x Gore Gruntas

Battalions:
2x Warlord

Points 1970/2000?

This army would be super fast, t1 you could use gordrakk to rush up himself, the other MBoMK and one unit of gruntas, and the foot boss could dash the other two units of GGs out, (or possibly himself and one). Seems a bit weak on objectives but you've got damage and speed.

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I keep ending up in the same place with my lists. It feels like it's where I want to be but it ends in a weird point spot. Not sure what to do. I don't think I want to sacrifice any of the pigs for more Brutes because it feels like you want a least 2 units to fly in with Mega-boss on 1st or 2nd turn. I just wish I could fill it out a bit better. Any suggestions on how to fill out points? 

Da Choppas:

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)

Megaboss - 140

Orruk Warchanter (115)

Orruk Warchanter (115)

UNITS

6x Orruk Gore-Gruntas (300)

6x Orruk Gore-Gruntas (300)

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)

1930/2000k

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Mikelomba said:

Yeah there u can have 1 drop batt and enchancement barra... I dont know how strong 3 maws are

I've got a tournament coming up on the 25th, this is the list I think I'm running.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumphs: Irrelevant

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
 

Units
3x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Pig-iron Choppas

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
Drops: 5
 
It's actually a variation on my current big Waaagh list but swaps the wurrgog+wardokk+lifeswarm to just take a second cabbage. Unfortunately I don't have the third painted yet so I can't try triple. Will test how I feel with 2, previously I just felt it lacked board presence and the cabbage was either squishy or weak. Hopefully the updated rules should fix both those issues.
 
Swap the brutes down to ardboys to free up points. 5 Brutes aren't a hammer and the dual wield didn't get the rend upgrade. 10 ardboys is 10 points more expensive and has more wounds with an inbuilt ward save on 40%. You could easily go to 10 Brutes and 2 units of 5 ardboys. Another really great option would be to put an arcane tome on the footboss and use emerald lifeswarm.  It's healing effect is great and you can do some dirty positional stuff with it if you're clever.
 
 
EDIT: also that list needs to be bloodtoofs. You aren't getting value out of buffing up two more units of 5 but being able to charge after breaking your opponents screen not only gives more impact hits but massively limits their options.
Edited by Malakree
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10 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I've got a tournament coming up on the 25th, this is the list I think I'm running.

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
Triumphs: Irrelevant

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Artefact: Armour of Gork
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (115)**
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*
 

Units
3x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*
- Pig-iron Choppas

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Warlord

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127
Drops: 5
 
It's actually a variation on my current big Waaagh list but swaps the wurrgog+wardokk+lifeswarm to just take a second cabbage. Unfortunately I don't have the third painted yet so I can't try triple. Will test how I feel with 2, previously I just felt it lacked board presence and the cabbage was either squishy or weak. Hopefully the updated rules should fix both those issues.
 
Swap the brutes down to ardboys to free up points. 5 Brutes aren't a hammer and the dual wield didn't get the rend upgrade. 10 ardboys is 10 points more expensive and has more wounds with an inbuilt ward save on 40%. You could easily go to 10 Brutes and 2 units of 5 ardboys. Another really great option would be to put an arcane tome on the footboss and use emerald lifeswarm.  It's healing effect is great and you can do some dirty positional stuff with it if you're clever.
 
 
EDIT: also that list needs to be bloodtoofs. You aren't getting value out of buffing up two more units of 5 but being able to charge after breaking your opponents screen not only gives more impact hits but massively limits their options.

Definitely true about Bloodtoofs. I guess if you wanted to lean heavily into a more defensive Da Choppas you could go something like this:

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)

Megaboss - 140

Orruk Warchanter (115)

Orruk Warchanter (115)

UNITS

15x Ardboys (255)

15x Ardboys (255)

10x Orruk Burtes (320)

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)

5 x Orruk Brutes (160)

2000/2000

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My mainly IJ BW list that will be fun but I’m far too smoothbrain to play well is as follows:

Spell Lore Enhancement

MBoMK 480 Fast ‘Un Amulet of Destiny Mega Bossy

Gobsprakk 300 Nasty Hex and Choking Mist

Wurrgog Prophet 150 Gorkamorka’s War Cry and Levitate

Weirdnob 90 Foot and Hand of Gork

Warchanter 115

Brutes 160

Ardboys 85

Ardboys 85

Ardboys 85

Gore-gruntas x6 300

Killbow 130

1980

 

Ardboys to get some charges in, Wurrgog for BW points and flying pigs turn 1, Gobsprakk for mobile debuff platform. Decent spell damage with a slice of luck. There aren’t enough bodies but if you 4D chess’d it you could be making magic with it. 

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What are people's initial thoughts on Goregrunta's weapon options?

Losing the +1 to hit/wound on gorehackas when charging is big, but the new payoff is better mortal wounds on the charge.

I can see 6-man units in bloodtoofs preferring hackas now that you can re-charge after combat, but otherwise choppas are just dealing 33% more weapon damage than hackas. Is it as a simple as bloodtoofs prefer hackas and the other clans prefer choppas? Do 3-man units want the greater damage from choppas because it's less likely they'll wipe out a unit?

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Just got my first game in with my new Bloodtoofs list against IDK. He deployed pretty far back so a huge alpha strike was not in the cards. I just sent in 1 unit of 3 gore gruntas and they successfully blew up his screen of 10 thralls and then charged in at end of combat and basically locked 80% of his army in combat on turn 1. They died spectacularly, of course, but VERY worth it.

gg charge.jpg

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