Spiky Norman Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 9 minutes ago, Holy_Diver said: Pebble in Big Waagh! takes all the 3 orruk warclans traits 😏 The Venom encrusted weapons and Mighty Destroyers are nice of course, but it already have a +5 Ward, so the Warpaint 6+ Ward doesn't really do anything unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 Venom encrusted needs the Orruk keyword though as well, which it lacks. It's only getting mighty destroyers here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmill Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 I realise he's at least 60 points overcosted but I'm really looking forward to running gordrakk in my lists, sucks he didn't get rend 2 axes but I think there's some worth to having a backup general for calling the waaagh in case your main krusha or other general gets sniped before the key turn. Pretty much makes amulet of destiny even more essential for your general now though. Losing metalrippa was a big blow as well but the extra fist damage at least makes up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 So what I'm now hearing is All out Attack and All out Defense wouldn't work with megaboss as the trigger conditions are different. Could you give all out attack to a unit that isn't fighting yet from this ability? Faqs are needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanoss Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 @Warmill he’ll get -2 during a Waaaagh so that’s nice! And yes, losing Metalrippers Klaw is a bummer (perhaps -4 rend during a Waaaagh was too much?) but giving a Footboss Destroyer during a Waaaagh nets him 8+ attacks at -2 5(maybe 6) damage!!!!! @Carniththe rule says they can target 3 (or 2) instead of 1 no? So they could still target 3 (or 2) units for AOA and AOD. This is where Battletome trumps rule book no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmill Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 27 minutes ago, Carnith said: So what I'm now hearing is All out Attack and All out Defense wouldn't work with megaboss as the trigger conditions are different. Could you give all out attack to a unit that isn't fighting yet from this ability? Faqs are needed. I had a lengthy discussion about this on the fb group and imo spamming all out attack and defence is perfectly valid. My boring technical reasoning is this: Green shows what the trigger requirements are to issue the AOD CA: use it when a unit is targeted. The purple is the second requirement: the unit that is targeted must receive the CA. The red is the benefit the unit gets. So a unit is targeted, that triggers being able to use the CA from the megaboss, requirement 1 met. You can issue it to 3 units, one of whom will be the unit that was targeted: that fulfills the second requirement, THAT unit receives the CA, so you're then free to use it on 2 other units while still meeting the requirement. The CA doesn't say that the unit must BE targeted to receive AOD, only that the unit that IS targeted must, which it does as one of 3 units. That's my rules lawyer argument, the real argument is of course it's intended for you to be able to spam CAs cos it's the battletome and it takes priority. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnith Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 That's my thought too on how it might work, but unfortunately needs an faq to be sure. I'll have to ask my opponent on how we want to rule it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnusha Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) @Warmill People saying gordrakk is overcosted in comparison to what normal BoMK can do, but he's the only character that can give three commands per turn to ANY friendly unit in Big Waagh. His ability affect friendly UNITS unlike BoMK that only affects Ironjaws. Unleash hell or All out attack for 3 full units or arrowboys or new crossbow dudes per turn? You can have that now. First turn fast At the double piggies to cut your opponent from objectives? You can have that now. Opponent charges? Redeloy your entire line of shooters with Redeploy.(or just kill them with UH) Gordrakk is 560 vs MK 480. thats 80 points. pros: - 3 Commands to ANY units in Big Waagh per turn. (do IJ still have GSG as an ally? If so...) is this alone worth 80 points? Maybe. - 2 more wounds - gets an additional attack per turn for killing a model (because he has two weapons so 2 attacks per turn) - has 3 more attacks than BoMK (because BoMK with a riptooth fist has 7 attacks in default profile) - deal mortal wounds with half of his melee attacks on 4+ (it's either wizard or not) -hits on 2 instead of 3 -his MK roar has 2 more attacks(6) (BoMK has 4) -His MK has one more attack thank a usual one -Does one more mortal wound if Stomp Monster Rampage is used with stronger destructive bulk -He is a general (you still gonna have d6 waagh points per turn if your other general gonna die) cons: - 4+ save instead of 3+ on usual MK (riptooth fist in not even +1 save, it changes save from 4 to 3 which is awesome because it's not a +1 modifier) - unable to pick warlord traits (no access to 5-6 mighty destroyers per turn or charge rerolls during IJ waagh) -unable to pick artefacts which in our case means unable to take 5+ ward save (this in conjunction with 4+ save make him very vulnerable). Gordrak is tailored to be a melee powerhouse, but he needs to survive and in comparison to BoMK he lasks alot of things in that department. People gonna focus him hard, even harder than before because in 3rd edition Megabosses had become literally the pillars or Ork armies, Without multiple commands from megabosses troops gonna go down fast. My take on this is that Gordrak is good in big waagh, and for sure worth 80 points, otherwise BoMK is way better in almost everything. Also two BoMK is not a mistake imo. Permanent all out defence + mistic shield should do the work to keep them alive. Edited September 13, 2021 by dnusha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnusha Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) [quote] deal mortal wounds with half of his melee attacks on 4+ (it's either wizard or not) [/quote] yeah i meant on heroes/wizrds on wound rolls, cant edit for some reason my mistake Edited September 13, 2021 by dnusha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber SunStorm Posted September 13, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted September 13, 2021 Good to see the discussion now online is into the nitty gritty of how to use IJ effectively and a lot less of the complaining about the potential of IJ being sidelined in this new book. I'm excited to get my Brutes on the table, finish painting my 2nd MK and Gore-gruntas. I've even made a start on some new ardboy counts as, from the beastsnagga boyz. Happy times. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmill Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 7 hours ago, dnusha said: @Warmill People saying gordrakk is overcosted in comparison to what normal BoMK can do, but he's the only character that can give three commands per turn to ANY friendly unit in Big Waagh. His ability affect friendly UNITS unlike BoMK that only affects Ironjaws. Unleash hell or All out attack for 3 full units or arrowboys or new crossbow dudes per turn? You can have that now. First turn fast At the double piggies to cut your opponent from objectives? You can have that now. Opponent charges? Redeloy your entire line of shooters with Redeploy.(or just kill them with UH) Gordrakk is 560 vs MK 480. thats 80 points. pros: - 3 Commands to ANY units in Big Waagh per turn. (do IJ still have GSG as an ally? If so...) is this alone worth 80 points? Maybe. - 2 more wounds - gets an additional attack per turn for killing a model (because he has two weapons so 2 attacks per turn) - has 3 more attacks than BoMK (because BoMK with a riptooth fist has 7 attacks in default profile) - deal mortal wounds with half of his melee attacks on 4+ (it's either wizard or not) -hits on 2 instead of 3 -his MK roar has 2 more attacks(6) (BoMK has 4) -His MK has one more attack thank a usual one -Does one more mortal wound if Stomp Monster Rampage is used with stronger destructive bulk -He is a general (you still gonna have d6 waagh points per turn if your other general gonna die) cons: - 4+ save instead of 3+ on usual MK (riptooth fist in not even +1 save, it changes save from 4 to 3 which is awesome because it's not a +1 modifier) - unable to pick warlord traits (no access to 5-6 mighty destroyers per turn or charge rerolls during IJ waagh) -unable to pick artefacts which in our case means unable to take 5+ ward save (this in conjunction with 4+ save make him very vulnerable). Gordrak is tailored to be a melee powerhouse, but he needs to survive and in comparison to BoMK he lasks alot of things in that department. People gonna focus him hard, even harder than before because in 3rd edition Megabosses had become literally the pillars or Ork armies, Without multiple commands from megabosses troops gonna go down fast. My take on this is that Gordrak is good in big waagh, and for sure worth 80 points, otherwise BoMK is way better in almost everything. Also two BoMK is not a mistake imo. Permanent all out defence + mistic shield should do the work to keep them alive. I've always been a big fan of double krusha and krusha/gordrakk and to be honest I alway treated gordrakk as a little sub-game of how much can I level him up. I think ironsunz is probably the best clan for him so you can get him fighting as many turns as possible to really boost the axes. Gordrakk + shaman general with touched by the waagh could be a fun combo as well, so you can try and cast foot of gork without missing out on the waaagh turn if the shaman gets sniped early. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiky Norman Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 26 minutes ago, SunStorm said: Good to see the discussion now online is into the nitty gritty of how to use IJ effectively and a lot less of the complaining about the potential of IJ being sidelined in this new book. I'm excited to get my Brutes on the table, finish painting my 2nd MK and Gore-gruntas. I've even made a start on some new ardboy counts as, from the beastsnagga boyz. Happy times. Be sure to post pictures of the Beast snaga-Ardboyz. I have been looking at converting the Blood bowl back orcs myself, because the Beast snagas were perhaps too metal/techy 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gitzdee Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) Can i ask someone how big a Warchanter is compared to the old big boss bsb? Does enyone own these 2 models? I want to try and run one as a Warchanter. Thanks! https://miniset.net/files/set/gw-99120209013-1-0.jpg Edited September 13, 2021 by Iksdee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subscriber SunStorm Posted September 13, 2021 Subscriber Share Posted September 13, 2021 4 hours ago, Spiky Norman said: Be sure to post pictures of the Beast snaga-Ardboyz. I have been looking at converting the Blood bowl back orcs myself, because the Beast snagas were perhaps too metal/techy 🙂 First 5 I've put in the other thread: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganigumo Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 Gordrakk + Mega bossy foot-megaboss can mighty destroyers 5 units a turn for 2cp, and throw around all out attack/all out defense to a bunch of units. Gordrakk being significantly less durable than a normal MBoMK is a bit of an issue though. Makes me wonder how viable double cabbage will be. Something like: Clan- Bloodtoofs 560- Gordrakk 480- MBoMK Artifact: Amulet of Destiny Mount Trait: Mean 'un 160- Megaboss General Command Trait: Mega Bossy Artifact: Destroyer 115- Warchanter Artifact:Arcane Tome 115- Warchanter 90- Orruk Wierdnob Shaman/Fungoid 150- 3x Gore-Gruntas 150- 3x Gore-Gruntas 150-3x Gore Gruntas Battalions: 2x Warlord Points 1970/2000? This army would be super fast, t1 you could use gordrakk to rush up himself, the other MBoMK and one unit of gruntas, and the foot boss could dash the other two units of GGs out, (or possibly himself and one). Seems a bit weak on objectives but you've got damage and speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelomba Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) Yo guys, cant stop thinking.... Why not 3 maw crusha and some brutes? i mean 3 crushas 1 chant 2*5 brutes and 1*5 ards is 2k... Casualitity? Edited September 13, 2021 by Mikelomba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 50 minutes ago, Mikelomba said: Yo guys, cant stop thinking.... Why not 3 maw crusha and some brutes? i mean 3 crushas 1 chant 2*5 brutes and 1*5 ards is 2k... Casualitity? It's 1960... Drop one of the brutes to ardboys and grab a 2nd WC instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelomba Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Malakree said: It's 1960... Drop one of the brutes to ardboys and grab a 2nd WC instead. Yeah there u can have 1 drop batt and enchancement barra... I dont know how strong 3 maws are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbossironteef Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 I keep ending up in the same place with my lists. It feels like it's where I want to be but it ends in a weird point spot. Not sure what to do. I don't think I want to sacrifice any of the pigs for more Brutes because it feels like you want a least 2 units to fly in with Mega-boss on 1st or 2nd turn. I just wish I could fill it out a bit better. Any suggestions on how to fill out points? Da Choppas: Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480) Megaboss - 140 Orruk Warchanter (115) Orruk Warchanter (115) UNITS 6x Orruk Gore-Gruntas (300) 6x Orruk Gore-Gruntas (300) 5 x Orruk Brutes (160) 5 x Orruk Brutes (160) 5 x Orruk Brutes (160) 1930/2000k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbossironteef Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) *double post* Edited September 13, 2021 by Warbossironteef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakree Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Mikelomba said: Yeah there u can have 1 drop batt and enchancement barra... I dont know how strong 3 maws are I've got a tournament coming up on the 25th, this is the list I think I'm running. Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: Ironsunz- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs: IrrelevantLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*- General- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Artefact: Armour of Gork- Mount Trait: Fast 'UnOrruk Warchanter (115)**- Warbeat: Get 'Em BeatOrruk Warchanter (115)**- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatBattleline10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*- Jagged Gore-hackas- Reinforced x 110 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**- Reinforced x 15 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)* Units 3x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*- Pig-iron ChoppasCore Battalions*Battle Regiment**WarlordAdditional EnhancementsArtefactTotal: 2000 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 127Drops: 5 It's actually a variation on my current big Waaagh list but swaps the wurrgog+wardokk+lifeswarm to just take a second cabbage. Unfortunately I don't have the third painted yet so I can't try triple. Will test how I feel with 2, previously I just felt it lacked board presence and the cabbage was either squishy or weak. Hopefully the updated rules should fix both those issues. @Warbossironteef Swap the brutes down to ardboys to free up points. 5 Brutes aren't a hammer and the dual wield didn't get the rend upgrade. 10 ardboys is 10 points more expensive and has more wounds with an inbuilt ward save on 40%. You could easily go to 10 Brutes and 2 units of 5 ardboys. Another really great option would be to put an arcane tome on the footboss and use emerald lifeswarm. It's healing effect is great and you can do some dirty positional stuff with it if you're clever. EDIT: also that list needs to be bloodtoofs. You aren't getting value out of buffing up two more units of 5 but being able to charge after breaking your opponents screen not only gives more impact hits but massively limits their options. Edited September 13, 2021 by Malakree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbossironteef Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Malakree said: I've got a tournament coming up on the 25th, this is the list I think I'm running. Allegiance: Ironjawz- Warclan: Ironsunz- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs: IrrelevantLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)*- General- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Command Trait: Mighty Waaagh! Leader- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)**- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist- Artefact: Armour of Gork- Mount Trait: Fast 'UnOrruk Warchanter (115)**- Warbeat: Get 'Em BeatOrruk Warchanter (115)**- Warbeat: Fixin' BeatBattleline10 x Orruk Brutes (320)*- Jagged Gore-hackas- Reinforced x 110 x Orruk Ardboys (170)**- Reinforced x 15 x Orruk Ardboys (85)*5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)* Units 3x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)*- Pig-iron ChoppasCore Battalions*Battle Regiment**WarlordAdditional EnhancementsArtefactTotal: 2000 / 2000Reinforced Units: 2 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 127Drops: 5 It's actually a variation on my current big Waaagh list but swaps the wurrgog+wardokk+lifeswarm to just take a second cabbage. Unfortunately I don't have the third painted yet so I can't try triple. Will test how I feel with 2, previously I just felt it lacked board presence and the cabbage was either squishy or weak. Hopefully the updated rules should fix both those issues. @Warbossironteef Swap the brutes down to ardboys to free up points. 5 Brutes aren't a hammer and the dual wield didn't get the rend upgrade. 10 ardboys is 10 points more expensive and has more wounds with an inbuilt ward save on 40%. You could easily go to 10 Brutes and 2 units of 5 ardboys. Another really great option would be to put an arcane tome on the footboss and use emerald lifeswarm. It's healing effect is great and you can do some dirty positional stuff with it if you're clever. EDIT: also that list needs to be bloodtoofs. You aren't getting value out of buffing up two more units of 5 but being able to charge after breaking your opponents screen not only gives more impact hits but massively limits their options. Definitely true about Bloodtoofs. I guess if you wanted to lean heavily into a more defensive Da Choppas you could go something like this: Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480) Megaboss - 140 Orruk Warchanter (115) Orruk Warchanter (115) UNITS 15x Ardboys (255) 15x Ardboys (255) 10x Orruk Burtes (320) 5 x Orruk Brutes (160) 5 x Orruk Brutes (160) 2000/2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5kaven5lave Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 My mainly IJ BW list that will be fun but I’m far too smoothbrain to play well is as follows: Spell Lore Enhancement MBoMK 480 Fast ‘Un Amulet of Destiny Mega Bossy Gobsprakk 300 Nasty Hex and Choking Mist Wurrgog Prophet 150 Gorkamorka’s War Cry and Levitate Weirdnob 90 Foot and Hand of Gork Warchanter 115 Brutes 160 Ardboys 85 Ardboys 85 Ardboys 85 Gore-gruntas x6 300 Killbow 130 1980 Ardboys to get some charges in, Wurrgog for BW points and flying pigs turn 1, Gobsprakk for mobile debuff platform. Decent spell damage with a slice of luck. There aren’t enough bodies but if you 4D chess’d it you could be making magic with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TALegion Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 What are people's initial thoughts on Goregrunta's weapon options? Losing the +1 to hit/wound on gorehackas when charging is big, but the new payoff is better mortal wounds on the charge. I can see 6-man units in bloodtoofs preferring hackas now that you can re-charge after combat, but otherwise choppas are just dealing 33% more weapon damage than hackas. Is it as a simple as bloodtoofs prefer hackas and the other clans prefer choppas? Do 3-man units want the greater damage from choppas because it's less likely they'll wipe out a unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swarmofseals Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 Just got my first game in with my new Bloodtoofs list against IDK. He deployed pretty far back so a huge alpha strike was not in the cards. I just sent in 1 unit of 3 gore gruntas and they successfully blew up his screen of 10 thralls and then charged in at end of combat and basically locked 80% of his army in combat on turn 1. They died spectacularly, of course, but VERY worth it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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