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AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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i've been running IJ with no tribe since 3.0 came out, I love the builds you can do and i'm 6-3 in tournaments with pure IJ in 3.0.

I get that the +1 to wound is great but you can get your offensive Krusher to a 2+, 2+ when you need it to be, also Smashin' and bashin' is SO good for the army right now. Smaller units means that it will trigger whenever you want it to.

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3 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

Smashing and bashing is so strong that I don't see myself playing another alliegance than IJ.

I found that I was only fighting with 2 units a turn and most (due to WC buffs). Compared to Smashing and Bashing the 6+ ward was basically mandatory while the +1/+1 makes your units so much more effective and reliable. 

I've heard a rumour we might lose the 6+ ward in which case I'd seriously consider going back to straight IJ unless I'm running a proper IJ/Kruel combo list.

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18 hours ago, Malakree said:

I found that I was only fighting with 2 units a turn and most (due to WC buffs). Compared to Smashing and Bashing the 6+ ward was basically mandatory while the +1/+1 makes your units so much more effective and reliable. 

But you don't have all these buffs immediately. Round 3 at least. And for me it's often too late.

I play a lot of gore gruntas, and when I charge, I tend to end up with 2+/2+ anyway. And Ardboyz have some sort of 6+ against non MW.

Finally, I play a lot of units and the Ironjawz Waaagh is often a +2 attacks, much more effective than the BW's Waaagh.

But it's just the way I play :) 

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1 minute ago, Backbreaker said:

But you don't have all these buffs immediately. Round 3 at least. And for me it's often too late.

I play a lot of gore gruntas, and when I charge, I tend to end up with 2+/2+ anyway. And Ardboyz have some sort of 6+ against non MW.

Finally, I play a lot of units and the Ironjawz Waaagh is often a +2 attacks, much more effective than the BW's Waaagh.

But it's just the way I play :) 

Certainly not round 3 at least, I've been running MBoMK, 2 Chanters, 1 Shaman, 2 x 10 Ardboyz, 1 x 6 pigs, 2 x 5 brutes, 1 x 5 boyz and you get 5 + d6 on turn one, so average, pop CA for 2-3 more, realistically 12-13 turn one and if you teleport a boyz unit and charge it's gautanteed for turn 2 to be on 20, with CA + 5 + d6 you're prettty much guaranteed for it turn 2 anywya. 

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26 minutes ago, AaronWilson said:

Certainly not round 3 at least, I've been running MBoMK, 2 Chanters, 1 Shaman, 2 x 10 Ardboyz, 1 x 6 pigs, 2 x 5 brutes, 1 x 5 boyz and you get 5 + d6 on turn one, so average, pop CA for 2-3 more, realistically 12-13 turn one and if you teleport a boyz unit and charge it's gautanteed for turn 2 to be on 20, with CA + 5 + d6 you're prettty much guaranteed for it turn 2 anywya. 

You can prepare a list to get this bonus round 2 of course. But it is only if none of your characters are shoot off the board, it costs you CP, you need to cast a spell successfully, ...

Whereas in IJ, you get your rules round 1 and that's all. But it's litterally the game mechanic of BW, when you are full buff, you are stronger than in IJ. But the road to get there can be a bumpy ride :) 

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1 minute ago, Backbreaker said:

You can prepare a list to get this bonus round 2 of course. But it is only if none of your characters are shoot off the board, it costs you CP, you need to cast a spell successfully, ...

Whereas in IJ, you get your rules round 1 and that's all. But it's litterally the game mechanic of BW, when you are full buff, you are stronger than in IJ. But the road to get there can be a bumpy ride :) 

That's fair, I've played both IJ & The Big Waagh a bit now, both have different stengths and both peak at different points. Ironjawz peak that 1-2 and hope they've done enough to hold onto the 3-5, Big Waagh needs to hold on 1-2 and then powers through the 3-5. 

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1 minute ago, DerZauberer said:

Do you guys think IJ still needs a Weirdnob for Big Green Hand?

In my AoS3 games i've had the feeling several times now that he's just not worth it.

I like one in big waagh as he can reliably cast it with sacrificing points. I don't him in IJ but I feel he forces you to take a Warlord batallion for Skullcap, without I'd just go battle regiment and leave him home.

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1 hour ago, AaronWilson said:

I like one in big waagh as he can reliably cast it with sacrificing points. I don't him in IJ but I feel he forces you to take a Warlord batallion for Skullcap, without I'd just go battle regiment and leave him home.

Its such a hard investment to make just for the teleportation alone. I get that he offers tactical flexibility and a threat to the board by teleporting whole squads in benefitial postions, but on its own its unreliable. And giving him a artifact just to get +1 to make it less risky blocks up ironsunz and destiny trinket for example.
We need the artifact slot somewhere else imo, ironsunz seem to be outright great in AoS3 as the command ability just went stronger on smaller boards and the CA changes. It makes battle round 1 so comfortable to go as ironsunz.

But you need to get the "worse" artifact and a second megaboss to get for example the destiny trinket on our Mawkrusha. And here is where the Weirdnob is in direct competetion with a second megaboss.

I guess lets wait and see what the new tome brings - my guess tho is that Big Waaagh will outshine IJ due to the lack of shooting and casting in IJ - and in Big Waaagh we should have plenty of good caster choices.

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7 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

But you don't have all these buffs immediately. Round 3 at least. And for me it's often too late.

I play a lot of gore gruntas, and when I charge, I tend to end up with 2+/2+ anyway. And Ardboyz have some sort of 6+ against non MW.

Finally, I play a lot of units and the Ironjawz Waaagh is often a +2 attacks, much more effective than the BW's Waaagh.

But it's just the way I play :) 

You get the 6++ turn 1 and the rest of them turn 2. That's how any Big Waaagh lists should be designed.

I often won't waaagh with BW, there's no need and the bonus waaagh points get sunk into casts/unbinds instead. Against some armies the +2 to unbind is the only way you'll stop key casts.

6 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

You can prepare a list to get this bonus round 2 of course. But it is only if none of your characters are shoot off the board, it costs you CP, you need to cast a spell successfully, ...

Whereas in IJ, you get your rules round 1 and that's all. But it's litterally the game mechanic of BW, when you are full buff, you are stronger than in IJ. But the road to get there can be a bumpy ride :) 

2x Warchanter, 40 Orruks, wurrgog+wardokk. 10+d6 per round. Alphastrikes are essentially none existent at the moment and are so easy to stop with good deployment so it's super rare your support characters get nuked.

Since most turn 1s are both players shrugging at each other you end up with so many spare cp's round 1 it's ridiculous.

4 hours ago, DerZauberer said:

Do you guys think IJ still needs a Weirdnob for Big Green Hand?

In my AoS3 games i've had the feeling several times now that he's just not worth it.

He was bad before, with the reduced board size he's even worse. Problem is his warscroll is so awful that you're paying 120 points for a blank warscroll which won't get the HoG off most of the time (CV7 vs all the heavy wizards out there atm). Even in Big Waaagh where it's much easier to get it off it the playstyle is slower and doesn't even want the turn 1 alphastrike.

Combine with how small the boards are, the objectives being closer together and heroic willpower you're realistically not getting off at any point it matters. Hopefully the new book actually fixes his warscroll rather than it being a bad version of the wardokk which costs 35 points more...

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I find the teleport is still crucial, because even if you never get it off, it keeps your opponent honest with his deployment and movements. If you don't want the shaman you can just take the arcane tome on the chanter. Having both the shaman and the wizard chanter is good for redundancy, and it also gives you the option to cast mystic shield on the cabbage. 

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18 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

You can prepare a list to get this bonus round 2 of course. But it is only if none of your characters are shoot off the board, it costs you CP, you need to cast a spell successfully, ...

Whereas in IJ, you get your rules round 1 and that's all. But it's litterally the game mechanic of BW, when you are full buff, you are stronger than in IJ. But the road to get there can be a bumpy ride :) 

Agree with others. I’ve currently been running MBoMK, 3 chanters(one with tome), 3x10 ardboyz 1x5 ardboyz 2x5 brutes 3 pigs. It’s 6+D6 +CA is another 5. It’s guaranteed 6+ward round one if not +1 to hit. I’ll agree that IJ plays a lot more aggressively but waaagh is really about the build up, I deploy kind of deep in my zone and try to make people either deploy aggressively and make my movement easier or wait out my push across the board as I get stronger and stronger. 

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@Malakree @Tezia99 I agree with both of you, in theory, but facing a lot of shooting armies, I know my key characters (WC, MK) won't be staying on the tabletop for long.

 

Overall, I don't think that there is a strengh gap betwen IJ and BW. Both allegiance are different and I just feel like have more tools when playing IJ (even if I have a really cool list with Rogue Idol and a MK in my head). I cannot wait to see the new book, with so many new entries, we're going to have so much to try :) 

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3 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

@Malakree @Tezia99 I agree with both of you, in theory, but facing a lot of shooting armies, I know my key characters (WC, MK) won't be staying on the tabletop for long.

 

Overall, I don't think that there is a strengh gap betwen IJ and BW. Both allegiance are different and I just feel like have more tools when playing IJ (even if I have a really cool list with Rogue Idol and a MK in my head). I cannot wait to see the new book, with so many new entries, we're going to have so much to try :) 

I would personally say that prior to the new book Big Waaagh! is just better purely due to combination of Brutish Cunning (so you get your 1 mighty destroyers for free anyway) and the 6++ being ridiculously important at the moment.  Outside of that Big Waaagh! has the general throughput advantage but the Ironjawz tricks bag is extensive, especially when you add in the clans.

That said it's basically meaningless at this point with the new book coming out. As I said if the 6++ goes or IJ get access to it aswell then the field is wide open and I'd even say that for lists which are more "pure" then IJ is better. 

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33 minutes ago, Boggler said:

If it is the Gore Choppa then ok...

If it is the Jagged Gore Hackas then OMG!

It's both the special and the 2" ranged weapon. Holy gods those 2" range brutes are unbelievably good now. 

EDIT: Also you aren't supposed to post leaks on this forum.

Edited by Malakree
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1 hour ago, PainfullyMediocre said:

Is it a leak if its freely available in a retail box?

If someone has bought a box and that card is in there, i'd say it is ok, but would need a Mod to confirm.

I have my 20 brutes split between 2x5 with 1 handers and 1x10 with 2 handers, so have the option to take either. 

 

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3 hours ago, Boggler said:

If it is the Gore Choppa then ok...

If it is the Jagged Gore Hackas then OMG!

Option 2 is the hackas and 3 is the gore choppa. Basically both got 1 better rend than before. Standard 2 choppas is the same. Due to the coherency rules the hackas are far superior. If Ard boys do not get rend 2 on anything, that for sure brings the Brutes forward with a clear purpose to smash heavy armor.

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3 hours ago, Boggler said:

If it is the Gore Choppa then ok...

If it is the Jagged Gore Hackas then OMG!

Edit:IMG-20210902-WA0002.jpg?width=468&height

Finally!! God I've been holding onto those last 2 boxes of Brutes, waiting to see if they would get a change like this. I was wondering if I would sell them. GUESS NOT!

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Quick question guys. So with the new FAQ rules that non ward saves now stack with ward saves... Does this mean that Ardboys in Big Waaagh! are now going back to getting two 6++ after saves? (One for the shield + one for the BW ability)

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